The world's most loved and excuse racist:

Henlars67

"No intelligent white person…in his or her right white mind, want black boys and black girls marrying their white sons and daughters, and in return introducing their grandchildren as half-brown, kinky-head black people"

"Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

Those are quotes from Muhammad Ali. Had a white person spoken like that there is no way that they would now have the hero status that Ali has.

Yet Ali is seen as a hero by the masses, loved by many and his racism ignored by the media and the public at large.

Added to his racism his treatment of Joe Frazier was disgusting, one wouldn't treat a dog in such a manner, particularly given that Frazier lobbied extensively for Ali to be allowed fight again after he was stripped of his title for refusing to go to Vietnam, Frazier had also helped Ali financially during this time.

In my opinion Ali is a horrible disgusting human being and it is disgraceful that he is almost universally hailed as a hero.

jam_mac_jam

He is disgusting. A quick talker with a very feeble mind. He was too stupid for the US army which says a lot.

Vito Corleone

My favourite Ali quote:

"I walked in and tried to order two hamburgers, and I was told, "We don't serve Negroes." I said, "Good—because I don't eat them either!"

Phill Ewinn

Could you change the title to 'Mohammed doesn't want sex with white boys'?

stefan idiot jones

I am not for one second making excuses for his views. But what you are quoting him saying was three or four decades ago.
Times were slightly different then.

If he or anyone else had said those things today then fair enough, but c'mon even I wasn't born when he fought Frazier and I'm forty two.

Apocalypto Panther

If you listen to his rants from 60's and 70's I find strange how anyone could not consider him a right muppet. Floyd Mayweather takes a lot of abuse for his brash personality, but IMO it's a lot more entertaining than most of the nonsense that came out of Ali's rants.

geeky

But... but... he was really good at hitting people. Surely qualifies for heroism?

His virulent racism largely relates to when he was involved with Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam. Because he was lippy and witty, some people seem to attribute far more intelligence to him than is justified - rather than him being some theorist in his own right, I'd argue that he fell under the spell of a manipulative (and yes, racist) organisation seeking a public figurehead. Happens all the time.

mr lee

what did he do to joe?

SEPT 23 1989

separationist

RachaelVO

Sorry OP, but do you think racism only works one way?

My name is URL

Patrick Moore was a terrible sexist and absolutely hated German people.. so much so that he said on numerous occasions that he'd love to see them all killed.

He said -

"if I saw the entire German nation sinking into the sea, I could be relied upon to help push it down."

Yet people still adore him for his work. Same thing with Ali.. you can respect what a person has done while at the same time deploring certain views they hold.

Wile E. Coyote

RachaelVO wrote: »

Sorry OP, but do you think racism only works one way?

You mean it doesn't?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mr lee wrote: »

what did he do to joe?

I believe he talked to Joe.

Henlars67

RachaelVO wrote: »

Sorry OP, but do you think racism only works one way?

Not really sure what you mean by that?

FTA69

The Nation of Islam did have a pretty loopy philosophy, stating that the different races were the result of a mad scientist conducting experiments on skin pigmentation thousands of years ago. Mad stuff to say the least, and a very different philosophy from the one expounded by proper Islam. Ali did indeed treat Frazier abysmally, much of his comments having no basis in reality. Ali, had a relatively privileged upbringing (his father owned a small business) compared to Frazier who grew up with no shoes and had to make his own punching bag out of bricks and expanding foam. He was also scathing toward Malcolm X, a man who mentored him, due to Malcolm realising the Nation of Islam was a corrupt organisation full of bullsh*t.

However, Ali's belief in black separatism isn't necessarily racist. At that time (and there are a few around today) many black people were saying that white society was incapable of being equal or altruistic, that racism was embedded into American society and that blacks would never be able to flourish in that context. Having that opinion doesn't necessarily mean you're a died-in-the-wool racist. That's what he meant when he says he doesn't want to live the white man; it wasn;t a simplistic hatred of white people.

In boxing terms Ali was one of the greatest ever, achieving seemingly insurmountable victories (Liston and Foreman) when he was written off as well as becoming a three-time heavyweight champion. Him standing up to the draft was a courageous move which cost him his prime years as a boxer, and it was something he did on principle alone and to great personal sacrifice. Was he a flawless man? No. But he was certainly a figurehead for many who were oppressed and for those campaigning against the immoral slaughter in Vietnam. He also moved away from the Nation of Islam and preaches a much more refined message these days. Fair play to him.

Chucken

My name is URL wrote: »

Patrick Moore was a terrible sexist and absolutely hated German people.. so much so that he said on numerous occasions that he'd love to see them all killed.

He said -



Yet people still adore him for his work. Same thing with Ali.. you can respect what a person has done while at the same time deploring certain views they hold.

His fiancée Lorna, a nurse, and he were both 20 when she died in an air raid on London in 1943, three years after they met.
Sir Patrick, who served with the RAF during the war, has previously told how he was so deeply in love that he entered into a life of bachelorhood after the tragedy as ‘there was no question of anyone else’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137652/Patrick-Moore-says-hates-Germans-70-years-Nazi-bomb-killed-fianc-e.html

I can kind of understand where he was coming from but to carry that hatred all his life must have been terrible.

''However, Ali's belief in black separatism isn't necessarily racist. At that time (and there are a few around today) many black people were saying that white society was incapable of being equal or altruistic, that racism was embedded into American society and that blacks would never be able to flourish in that context. Having that opinion doesn't necessarily mean you're a died-in-the-wool racist. That's what he meant when he says he doesn't want to live the white man; it wasn;t a simplistic hatred of white people.''


**** like this annoys me, people forget the death toll of white people who died in the American Civil War.

RachaelVO

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

You mean it doesn't?

I do I really do

RachaelVO

My name is URL wrote: »

Patrick Moore was a terrible sexist and absolutely hated German people.. so much so that he said on numerous occasions that he'd love to see them all killed.

He said -



Yet people still adore him for his work. Same thing with Ali.. you can respect what a person has done while at the same time deploring certain views they hold.

Never knew that about Patrick Moore hating the Germans, his quote is funny though. As you say, it doesn't take from his work and the respect he got for it.

Amirani

Just because he's a sporting hero doesn't mean everyone loves him as a person.

kneemos

I think Ali liked to wind people up,the statement you quoted may have been to counterbalance the white anti integration policy of the time.

CruelCoin

Do we know what the context was?

I've teased a friend of mine who is tall lanky, red curly haired and who is going out with a short, rotund straight black haired chinese girl.

"Oh god would you think of the children!"

Not a bit of it was meant in a racist way, and he knew full well i was joking.

Was ali saying this with a straight face, or a smile?

Henlars67

CruelCoin wrote: »

Do we know what the context was?

I've teased a friend of mine who is tall lanky, red curly haired and who is going out with a short, rotund straight black haired chinese girl.

"Oh god would you think of the children!"

Not a bit of it was meant in a racist way, and he knew full well i was joking.

Was ali saying this with a straight face, or a smile?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HBnc8YNaaQ

Bigdeadlydave

The racist stuff he did with Frazer was a disgrace, calling him a Gorilla etc

Ush1

Why would anyone really care what Ali said? He wasn't some deep thinking scholar, he was a heavyweight boxer.

It's like when some random pop star comes out and says they're against gay marriage and people go mad, who the hell cares what they think about such things?

Bigdeadlydave

Bigdeadlydave wrote: »

The racist stuff he did with Frazer was a disgrace, calling him a Gorilla etc

he did? , wow, never heard that before . Was it pre-match or just in general when talking about him?

FTA69

Jake1 wrote: »

**** like this annoys me, people forget the death toll of white people who died in the American Civil War.

What's your point? American society was built upon racism, and in Ali's time black people were subject to a myriad of forms of overt and covert racism. That's what should be p*ssing you off, not somebody telling it like it is.

Phill Ewinn

Makes note. Separatism good, racism..............


Hang on. They're the same thing!

The Backwards Man

Being famous and well liked does not automatically make someone a nice person, and vice versa.

If you were in a room with Florence Nightingale and Genghis Khan, having never heard of either, you might have trouble deciding who was the better person.

catallus

Ali subscribed to the notion of Black Supremacism. He did an Irish interview where he came out with the stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LaCK_LkEHk

Phill Ewinn

FTA69 wrote: »

What's your point? American society was built upon racism, and in Ali's time black people were subject to a myriad of forms of overt and covert racism. That's what should be p*ssing you off, not somebody telling it like it is.

All kinds of discrimination going on then and now.

FTA69

Jake1 wrote: »

he did? , wow, never heard that before . Was it pre-match or just in general when talking about him?

Ali says it was pre-match hype but it was pretty vehement. He called Frazier a gorilla, the white man's champion etc. When you consider the fact Frazier helped to support him when he was barred from boxing and lobbied for him such comments are pretty f*cking saucy. Frazier hated him, and couldn't be blamed for doing so in my opinion.

longshanks

Didn't Ali have a white Irish grandfather?

FTA69

Phill Ewinn wrote: »

All kinds of discrimination going on then and now.

Again what's your point? Is pointing out the fact that blacks have gotten a sh*t deal in the USA wrong or something?

Henlars67

longshanks wrote: »

Didn't Ali have a white Irish grandfather?

NO

FTA69

longshanks wrote: »

Didn't Ali have a white Irish grandfather?

Great grandfather from Clare.

Chucken

longshanks wrote: »

Didn't Ali have a white Irish grandfather?

His great grandfather was from Ennis.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1210524/Muhammad-Ali-freeman-ancestral-home-Ireland.html

kneemos

catallus wrote: »

Ali subscribed to the notion of Black Supremacism. He did an Irish interview where he came out with the stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LaCK_LkEHk

Where was the black supremacism?

--Kaiser--

He's still one of the most talented individuals to have ever put his feet on the canvas. He may have had some reprehensible political notions but that isn't a crime.

I done wrestled with an alligator
I done tussled with a whale
handcuffed lightning, thrown thunder in jail
only last week, I murdered a rock, injured a stone, hospitalised a brick
I'm so mean I make medicine sick

Henlars67

--Kaiser-- wrote: »

He's still one of the most talented individuals to have ever put his feet on the canvas. He may have had some reprehensible political notions but that isn't a crime.

What would be your view of a top sportsman who was a white separatist?

Duckworth_Luas

Henlars67 wrote: »

What would be your view of a top sportsman who was a white separatist?

Andy Murray is a top sportsman of sorts and he always keeps his whites separate. Hence his dazzling apparence and performance at Wimbledon.

groovie

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

Andy Murray is a top sportsman of sorts and he always keeps his whites separate. Hence his dazzling apparence and performance at Wimbledon.

Made my drum roll.

cletus van damme

ali called frazier an uncle tom which I'd consider similair to racist abuse.


http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-03-15/sports/0103150316_1_muhammad-ali-apology-verbal-abuse

fishy fishy

Henlars67 wrote: »

"No intelligent white person…in his or her right white mind, want black boys and black girls marrying their white sons and daughters, and in return introducing their grandchildren as half-brown, kinky-head black people"

"Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

Those are quotes from Muhammad Ali. Had a white person spoken like that there is no way that they would now have the hero status that Ali has.

Yet Ali is seen as a hero by the masses, loved by many and his racism ignored by the media and the public at large.

Added to his racism his treatment of Joe Frazier was disgusting, one wouldn't treat a dog in such a manner, particularly given that Frazier lobbied extensively for Ali to be allowed fight again after he was stripped of his title for refusing to go to Vietnam, Frazier had also helped Ali financially during this time.

In my opinion Ali is a horrible disgusting human being and it is disgraceful that he is almost universally hailed as a hero.

get the backstory :rolleyes:

kupus

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Being famous and well liked does not automatically make someone a nice person, and vice versa.

If you were in a room with Florence Nightingale and Genghis Khan, having never heard of either, you might have trouble deciding who was the better person.

And imagine if they had hoodies on!!

suicide_circus

Henlars67 wrote: »

What would be your view of a top sportsman who was a white separatist?

he would be roundly pilloried and denounced. his sporting achievements would be overshadowed by the infamy of his vile opinions.

--Kaiser--

Henlars67 wrote: »

What would be your view of a top sportsman who was a white separatist?

What's your opinion of Gandhi? He was an awful racist (not to mention he possibly had a fetish for young girls). Still managed to do a lot for his country

wolfpawnat

Mohammad Ali lived in a time where being African American made you subhuman. where the colour of his skin meant he was no entitled to eat in the same restaurants as others, where he had to give up his seat etc all just because others thought themselves better than him and you think it disgusting HE had some racist views????

As for Vietnam, that war, as he stated was with a nation that never wronged hom and that was a slaugter of American men for no good reason. He was too intelligent to go over and be another death.

floggg

Chucken wrote: »

His fiancée Lorna, a nurse, and he were both 20 when she died in an air raid on London in 1943, three years after they met.
Sir Patrick, who served with the RAF during the war, has previously told how he was so deeply in love that he entered into a life of bachelorhood after the tragedy as ‘there was no question of anyone else’.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2137652/Patrick-Moore-says-hates-Germans-70-years-Nazi-bomb-killed-fianc-e.html

I can kind of understand where he was coming from but to carry that hatred all his life must have been terrible.

Then surely you could kinda understand a black guy in the 60s not liking white people.

And the black separatist movement wasnt entirely a hatred of white people. It's was also built largely in the idea of developing black self sustainability (building on the teachings of Marcus Garvey in the 20s) and on the idea that white people would never let blacks be equal in a white dominated society.

Mr Whirly

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Mohammad Ali lived in a time where being African American made you subhuman. where the colour of his skin meant he was no entitled to eat in the same restaurants as others, where he had to give up his seat etc all just because others thought themselves better than him and you think it disgusting HE had some racist views????

As for Vietnam, that war, as he stated was with a nation that never wronged hom and that was a slaugter of American men for no good reason. He was too intelligent to go over and be another death.

He did get involved in some crazy **** though. He met with the Ku Klux Klan to discuss their similar separatist beliefs in the run up to the Frazier fight and completely lost the run of himself around that time.

I agree with him about the war draft though as did Frazier and lots of other high profile people.

crockholm

I can't say much about his political opinions,because they truely were different times,if it were said today it would be foolish,to say the least.

My gripe is with the lore of Ali, all those quotes,snappy and rythmic-pretty much all Herbert Muhammad,Elijah Muhammad's son,just drip fed to Ali,those who knew him best know he wasn't that smart.

And the title of "Greatest"? He pretty much copied Sugar Ray Robinson, who was his idol,and no doubt a feat for a heavyweight to do,but please......contender for greatest heavyweight surely,but not greatest ever.

Now,I will admit bias,Smokin Joe is/was my favourite heavyweight,and the shameful way he was treated by Ali,and his supporters and the way the media glossed over it all was sickening.It was painful to see poor old Joe,even in his last years hold onto so much bitterness.He could not let go what had befallen him,and died holding onto it,a broken man,whilst the man he floored,and had (IMO) the better of their 3 bouts becomes an icon and beloved by all.