The world's most loved and excuse racist:

I am not for one second making excuses for his views. But what you are quoting him saying was three or four decades ago.
Times were slightly different then.

If he or anyone else had said those things today then fair enough, but c'mon even I wasn't born when he fought Frazier and I'm forty two.

But... but... he was really good at hitting people. Surely qualifies for heroism?

His virulent racism largely relates to when he was involved with Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam. Because he was lippy and witty, some people seem to attribute far more intelligence to him than is justified - rather than him being some theorist in his own right, I'd argue that he fell under the spell of a manipulative (and yes, racist) organisation seeking a public figurehead. Happens all the time.

separationist

Patrick Moore was a terrible sexist and absolutely hated German people.. so much so that he said on numerous occasions that he'd love to see them all killed.

He said -

"if I saw the entire German nation sinking into the sea, I could be relied upon to help push it down."

Yet people still adore him for his work. Same thing with Ali.. you can respect what a person has done while at the same time deploring certain views they hold.

mr lee wrote: »

what did he do to joe?

I believe he talked to Joe.

The Nation of Islam did have a pretty loopy philosophy, stating that the different races were the result of a mad scientist conducting experiments on skin pigmentation thousands of years ago. Mad stuff to say the least, and a very different philosophy from the one expounded by proper Islam. Ali did indeed treat Frazier abysmally, much of his comments having no basis in reality. Ali, had a relatively privileged upbringing (his father owned a small business) compared to Frazier who grew up with no shoes and had to make his own punching bag out of bricks and expanding foam. He was also scathing toward Malcolm X, a man who mentored him, due to Malcolm realising the Nation of Islam was a corrupt organisation full of bullsh*t.

However, Ali's belief in black separatism isn't necessarily racist. At that time (and there are a few around today) many black people were saying that white society was incapable of being equal or altruistic, that racism was embedded into American society and that blacks would never be able to flourish in that context. Having that opinion doesn't necessarily mean you're a died-in-the-wool racist. That's what he meant when he says he doesn't want to live the white man; it wasn;t a simplistic hatred of white people.

In boxing terms Ali was one of the greatest ever, achieving seemingly insurmountable victories (Liston and Foreman) when he was written off as well as becoming a three-time heavyweight champion. Him standing up to the draft was a courageous move which cost him his prime years as a boxer, and it was something he did on principle alone and to great personal sacrifice. Was he a flawless man? No. But he was certainly a figurehead for many who were oppressed and for those campaigning against the immoral slaughter in Vietnam. He also moved away from the Nation of Islam and preaches a much more refined message these days. Fair play to him.

My name is URL wrote: »

Patrick Moore was a terrible sexist and absolutely hated German people.. so much so that he said on numerous occasions that he'd love to see them all killed.

He said -



Yet people still adore him for his work. Same thing with Ali.. you can respect what a person has done while at the same time deploring certain views they hold.

Never knew that about Patrick Moore hating the Germans, his quote is funny though. As you say, it doesn't take from his work and the respect he got for it.

I think Ali liked to wind people up,the statement you quoted may have been to counterbalance the white anti integration policy of the time.

Why would anyone really care what Ali said? He wasn't some deep thinking scholar, he was a heavyweight boxer.

It's like when some random pop star comes out and says they're against gay marriage and people go mad, who the hell cares what they think about such things?

Jake1 wrote: »

**** like this annoys me, people forget the death toll of white people who died in the American Civil War.

What's your point? American society was built upon racism, and in Ali's time black people were subject to a myriad of forms of overt and covert racism. That's what should be p*ssing you off, not somebody telling it like it is.