Dublin Bus - taking notes for group fares

GG21057

My wife visited Maynooth today with 7 kids under 6. Due to the number of kids (visitors) she couldn't use our car. She arrived by train and due to timetable opted to return by bus. She got all kids on and tendered a 10 Euro note for the 8 euro fare. The driver told her that cash is not accepted and asked her and the kids to get off the bus.
I know he was technically right, but what an enormous dick! She was only going to Leixlip. I had to leave work and organise cars to collect as kids were due sleep / feed etc.
Rant only; still thing the driver is a dick. Thoughts?

Skid X

GG21057 wrote: »

My wife visited Maynooth today with 7 kids under 6. Due to the number of kids (visitors) she couldn't use our car. She arrived by train and due to timetable opted to return by bus. She got all kids on and tendered a 10 Euro note for the 8 euro fare. The driver told her that cash is not accepted and asked her and the kids to get off the bus.
I know he was technically right, but what an enormous dick! She was only going to Leixlip. I had to leave work and organise cars to collect as kids were due sleep / feed etc.
Rant only; still thing the driver is a dick. Thoughts?

Dublin Bus machines are set up to take coins only - blame the company not the employee. Could she not have got change somewhere?

dudara

That's how Dublin Bus operates. They do not take bank notes, only coins, smart cards and pre-paid tickets. There are restrictions placed on the driver by the ticket machine.

Moved to the Commuting & Transport forum, as that is where the most Dublin Bus knowledge will reside.

dudara

bumper234

Sorry but it's your wifes fault Dublin bus clearly states they only take coins. Could she not as others on the bus for change?

coylemj

OP, I'm sorry about the inconvenience but what was the driver supposed to do? He can't take the note because his machine won't accept it and if he waved her and the kids on board, it means anyone could flash a tenner at the driver and get free travel.

TheBandicoot

GG21057 wrote: »

The driver told her that cash is not accepted and asked her and the kids to get off the bus ... what an enormous dick! ..still thing the driver is a dick.

What should he have done? Let them all ride for free?

Dublin Bus has been coins only for what, almost two decades now? In my lifetime I have never known it to take notes, and everyone knows to get "change for the bus". I have no sympathy for you or your wife in this situation, and attacking the bus driver for something he has zero control over and is entirely down to your own ignorance is disgraceful.

http://dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/How-to-use-the-bus/Step-2/

Realtine

GG21057 wrote: »

I had to leave work and organise cars to collect as kids were due sleep / feed etc.

Skid X wrote: »

Dublin Bus machines are set up to take coins only - blame the company not the employee.

Wouldn't even blame Dublin Bus or the driver this is the fault of your wife sir.

If I recall, and someone might correct me on this but bank notes are not used any more because of the temptation of robbery. (?? so long ago now my memory might be fading)

devnull

Blaming Dublin Bus for this is ridiculous.

coylemj

Realtine wrote: »

If I recall, and someone might correct me on this but bank notes are not used any more because of the temptation of robbery. (?? so long ago now my memory might be fading)

More likely because the technology to read notes involves sensitive scanners which are not suitable for mounting on a bus and all it would take is one passenger with a worn-out fiver to hold up the entire queue. Plus accepting notes means you have to give change and the machines are not designed to hold a 'float' for giving change.

bumper234

Clearly states on Dublin bus website

Having established the appropriate fare for the journey, you insert the exact fare in coins only into the top of the fare box. Notes are not accepted.

LXFlyer

The 66 bus operates every 30 minutes - could she not have got change somewhere in the time it took you to drive there??

Vic_08

GG21057 wrote: »

My wife visited Maynooth today with 7 kids under 6. Due to the number of kids (visitors) she couldn't use our car. She arrived by train and due to timetable opted to return by bus. She got all kids on and tendered a 10 Euro note for the 8 euro fare. The driver told her that cash is not accepted and asked her and the kids to get off the bus.
I know he was technically right, but what an enormous dick! She was only going to Leixlip. I had to leave work and organise cars to collect as kids were due sleep / feed etc.
Rant only; still thing the driver is a dick. Thoughts?

My thought is that someone is a dick in this scenario but it is not the driver.

What always amuses me about these rants is the terrible ordeal people are apparently forced to go through.

Obviously the correct action in this situation was for you to abandon your place of employment and arrange (no doubt at great expense) a fleet of cars to rescue the abandoned helpless children.

Not for wifey the more prosaic solution of going into one of the numerous retail establishments in Maynooth and either requesting change or purchasing a low value item in order to obtain the required coinage.

bumper234

Vic_08 wrote: »

My thought is that someone is a dick in this scenario but it is not the driver.

What always amuses me about these rants is the terrible ordeal people are apparently forced to go through.

Obviously the correct action in this situation was for you to abandon your place of employment and arrange (no doubt at great expense) a fleet of cars to rescue the abandoned helpless children.

Not for wifey the more prosaic solution of going into one of the numerous retail establishments in Maynooth and either requesting change or purchasing a low value item in order to obtain the required coinage.

But but but.....the children.....won't somebody PLEASE think of the children!!!!!

Conway635

Blame ourselves.

We allow ourselves to live in a society where scumbags rule, to such an extent that our city bus fleet had to abandon normal money-handling procedures due to the number of violent robberies on drivers at outlying termini.

We allow gurriers to run riot on the LUAS lines and abuse passengers with impunity.

The end result is always to limit convenience for the passenger, or limit the places and times they feel safe travelling, rather than facing up to the problem.

And we continue to vote for politicians who have no will to change this.

C635

L1011

Cardiff and Brighton buses can accept notes for fares going over said note amount. Just requires a better designed farebox - especially as I seem to remember both use otherwise identical wayfarer systems to here

Victor

Vic_08 wrote: »

dick

Less of this from all sides please.

Moderator

Victor

For such eventualities, please note that an entire group can be put on one Leap Card, assuming there is a sufficient balance.

GG21057

Wow, good points all around - that's me back in my box. Wife had a baby that needed to be home so I did what had to be done - no expense but a pain in the area.
As we don't use buses, were ignorant of the no notes rule though wife did ask a driver she met on the way to the bus stop (parked opposite the Glen Royal) who advised what the fare was but never said anything about notes.
Wife suggested running into Londis fir change but the driver was having none of it.
I compare this to the Luas to Heuston which I unfortunately have experience of and can only presume if you have to be a zombied scripted to be exempt from paying.

ProudDUB

GG21057 wrote: »

Wow, good points all around - that's me back in my box. Wife had a baby that needed to be home so I did what had to be done - no expense but a pain in the area.
As we don't use buses, were ignorant of the no notes rule though wife did ask a driver she met on the way to the bus stop (parked opposite the Glen Royal) who advised what the fare was but never said anything about notes.
Wife suggested running into Londis fir change but the driver was having none of it.
I compare this to the Luas to Heuston which I unfortunately have experience of and can only presume if you have to be a zombied scripted to be exempt from paying.

If you & your wife do not use buses on a regular basis, that is perfectly understandable. But don't you think that it was her responsibility to do a little bit of homework in advance on the mode of transport that she was taking, especially as she was in charge of getting a bunch of kids from A to B on it?

As for the driver who only told her the fare, he answered the question that she asked him. What else was he supposed to tell her? The next days weather forecast, this weeks winning lottery numbers? He is not a mind reader. As others have said, Dublin Buses have been coin only since Moses was a boy. It probably didn't occur to him that your wife wouldn't know this. It certainly wouldn't occur to me if someone asked me what the fare was for a bus.

Not letting your wife run into the Londis for change was a bit mean though imo. I can understand why drivers can not do it on a regular basis, as they all have time tables to stick to. But seeing as she had that many kids with her, I think he could have chilled out there a bit.

corktina

MYOB wrote: »

Cardiff and Brighton buses can accept notes for fares going over said note amount. Just requires a better designed farebox - especially as I seem to remember both use otherwise identical wayfarer systems to here

they operating to Maynooth now? Bleedy deregulation....

miller50841

What is with so many people having a go at Dublin Bus Drivers, I don't get it they have a very stressful job and do deal with a lot of crap and others have pointed out due to attacks on staff for the money its safer the last nearly 20 years they have no access to it.

Nobody would get away with jumping into a taxi and getting free travel, you wouldn't go into a shop and get goods for free because you don't have the right amount.

I have a friend who does say about similar stories where people get on with the story they didn't know about no notes accepted, they only put €20 on their Leap card, oh I only bought this smart card that looks like it was put through the wash.
There are a good few tricks people are trying these days and also has been said that some try it quite a lot also with the child and student tickets when they are neither.

She was at fault and have to say she shouldn't put this sort of pressure on the Driver which then makes them look bad especially in front of other passengers imagine how many times this actually happens a day and if the Driver was to wait for everybody to get change or whatever the bus would never get to the other end.

Have been on a few where Drug addicts have been on fighting or smoking or the same story no money or notes only and then expect to travel for free.

foggy_lad

God be with the days when the conductor in Maynooth would give you a few yards of ticket for the kids to draw on with your change, and help you stowing your buggy or shopping and offer you a light if you were upstairs without a match, but sadly a driver can be sacked for handling cash on a Dublin Bus these days

n97 mini

Conductors were great, and even though they're gone DB should still handle all legal tender. Ok, maybe not €500 notes.

Driver wasn't really a dick, but he could have been a good Samaritan considering the circumstances, and checked if he had the break of a tenner in his own pocket. That'd be the difference between a good driver and a great driver.

corktina

....but what if this was the third tenner he'd been offered in the past ten minutes? everyone has a breaking point....

n97 mini

Very unlikely it was. The stop she was getting on is very close to the start of the 66 route in Maynooth. He would have just come into service.

corktina

lol anorak answer!!! :-)

I was commenting really on the difference between a good and bad driver...

AlekSmart

GG21057 wrote: »

My wife visited Maynooth today with 7 kids under 6. Due to the number of kids (visitors) she couldn't use our car. She arrived by train and due to timetable opted to return by bus. She got all kids on and tendered a 10 Euro note for the 8 euro fare. The driver told her that cash is not accepted and asked her and the kids to get off the bus.
I know he was technically right, but what an enormous dick! She was only going to Leixlip. I had to leave work and organise cars to collect as kids were due sleep / feed etc.
Rant only; still thing the driver is a dick. Thoughts?

GG,could you perhaps confirm the exact terminology which the Busdriver allegedly used to your wife ?

You say,that your wife said,the Busdriver said..."Cash is not accepted".

Perhaps an element of "Dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi",at play ?

As The BAC back-office Cash Counting system is automated and utilises Coin Counting machines,any note arriving with the coinage requires a manual intervention to remove it if its not to be shredded by,or jam up, the counting machinery.

In the "old-days" such human resources were available,however the constant quest for efficiency has meant automated systems are just that....untouched by human hand.

As a Busdriver myself,I and my colleagues,deal constantly (Incredibly,given it's more expensive than the pre-paid/Leapcard alternative) in Cash.

We do not accept NOTES,which is quite a different scenario,which is why I place some importance in the clarity of EXACTLY what the Busdriver concerned said to your wife.

In addition,I note that your Wife says the Busdriver then asked,rather than told,her to leave the bus,it may appear semantic,but it does give a sense of what attitude our alleged "Dick" was displaying towards this Customer Group.

Telling a woman and 7 children to get off a Bus in this instance,is difficult to countenance,however advising her of the situation and having her make the decision to leave could be one alternative ?

As an aside,I have encountered this issue on many occasions,and my own response is usually to immediately make a P/A announcement to this effect....

"Are there any passengers in the Lower Saloon with change in coin of a €X Note for a passenger,as this may prevent further DELAY"

This usually has two results,either the Note Bearer suddenly remembers a forgotten stash of coin,or more commonly,a rush of IMF style bailers-outers keen for the journey to continue,will appear and settle the affair.

On the very rare occasion when the PA does not produce a result,I will advise the Note Bearer that if they wish to continue their journey it will be at risk of incurring a Standard Fare.

Then,as soon as I reach a location close to a shop I will ask the Note Bearer if they would try for change,whilst I wait for them...It is important however,to keep the other passengers informed as to the cause of the delay.

I am not calling shenannigans on the OP,but that "Driver told her that Cash is not accepted"quote just does'nt quite gel with me.

By far and away the best avenue to avoid this scenario is the carrying of a Credited LeapCard...always remembering that even Bus Atha Cliath averse Cardholders can still make comprehensive use of it on Luas/DART/Suburban Rail/Wexford Bus/Matthews Coach/Cork City Bus.

Anyway GG,I do hope your wife (and Kids !) has recovered from the experience,with perhaps a Call to Customer Comment @ 8734222 just to advise of this experience...who knows,you might get a brace of Family Ramblers in recompense ?

endofrainbow

This is something that really bugs me and is most prevalent on the route I take which passes near to Kilmainham Gaol and past Guinness. The amount of tourists getting on with notes is unreal and at the other extreme last week 2 adults got on with 26 kids and proceeded to put the coins into the machine for all 28 of them.....

I do think the onus was on the OP's wife to familiarise herself with the payment method on Dublin Bus - particularly since you she obviously doesn't take the bus that often.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

L1011

corktina wrote: »

they operating to Maynooth now? Bleedy deregulation....

I'd be extremely happy if B&H Buses operated to Maynooth. 24 hour core routes, oldest city-wide reliable RTPI implementation I ever saw, fairly modern fleet (for the UK - its similar to DB in age), smartphone ticketing.

We can but dream :pac:

Del2005

ProudDUB wrote: »

Not letting your wife run into the Londis for change was a bit mean though imo. I can understand why drivers can not do it on a regular basis, as they all have time tables to stick to. But seeing as she had that many kids with her, I think he could have chilled out there a bit.

Who would look after the 8 kids? It's not a bus drivers job to mind other peoples children.

Greenmachine

She could have got a minibus to leixlip for about €12 and what everyone else said about the notes.

Sacksian

I am solidly pro-Dublin Bus, its staff and public transport, generally.

However, there is something a bit unsatisfactory about a public transport system being unable to accept even the smallest denomination of paper currency (which wouldn't cover two cash fares from the city centre to the airport, for example).

Having said that, I appreciate that safety concerns were the initial motivation and there doesn't seem to be any solution to that.

miller50841

Sacksian wrote: »

I am solidly pro-Dublin Bus, its staff and public transport, generally.

However, there is something a bit unsatisfactory about a public transport system being unable to accept even the smallest denomination of paper currency (which wouldn't cover two cash fares from the city centre to the airport, for example).

Having said that, I appreciate that safety concerns were the initial motivation and there doesn't seem to be any solution to that.

Airport bus accepts notes...

They stopped taking notes to try and stop the attacks which still do happen just not as much for money.

ProudDUB

ProudDUB wrote: »

Not letting your wife run into the Londis for change was a bit mean though imo. I can understand why drivers can not do it on a regular basis, as they all have time tables to stick to. But seeing as she had that many kids with her, I think he could have chilled out there a bit.

If I was sat on a bus and the driver let someone drop half a dozen kids on the bus and then waited for that someone to return with change I'd be quite annoyed.

n97 mini

Deleted User wrote: »

If I was sat on a bus and the driver let someone drop half a dozen kids on the bus and then waited for that someone to return with change I'd be quite annoyed.

Why? That route is so long, including a long stretch of emtpy R148, it would have no bearing on time.

Del2005

n97 mini wrote: »

Why? That route is so long, including a long stretch of emtpy R148, it would have no bearing on time.

The biggest delay on buses is dwell time. By allowing people to dump a load of kids on a bus and walk to a shop to get change will take a few minutes, then what happens if the shop doesn't have enough change? Does the driver let her walk to one down the road.

The bigger issue is that the driver is not responsible the children. If one of them ran off the bus how would the driver stop them since they are sitting in a cab with a seat belt on?

n97 mini

What would the bus driver do with the children if the bus caught fire while she was in the shop? We're getting into hypothetical and improbable situations here.

Back in reality, holding the bus up by 60 seconds at the start of the route would not make any noticeable difference. Even the next major stop isn't for 4.5km.

Polar101

n97 mini wrote: »

Why? That route is so long, including a long stretch of emtpy R148, it would have no bearing on time.

Sure it would. If you commute daily (using public transport), you know your commute takes X minutes every day and unless it's a really crappy service, it will be very close to X minutes every day. If you add extra delays like that, it will change the service quality.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

LXFlyer

It is a visual inspection by the driver.

n97 mini

Polar101 wrote: »

Sure it would. If you commute daily (using public transport), you know your commute takes X minutes every day and unless it's a really crappy service,

66 is a very long route, and times vary hugely.

LeinsterDub

I forgot to get a loaf bread any chance the driver will stop at the shop for me?

Delaying an entire bus of passengers for one person is ridiculous

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

What would the bus driver do with the children if the bus caught fire while she was in the shop? We're getting into hypothetical and improbable situations here.

Back in reality, holding the bus up by 60 seconds at the start of the route would not make any noticeable difference. Even the next major stop isn't for 4.5km.

Who says it would be only 60 seconds? That would depend on how busy the shop was, how well staffed it was all of which the driver could not know.
Also illegal parking is a problem at that stop in maynooth village possible the driver was already blocking the entire village, who knows.

n97 mini

cdebru wrote: »

Who says it would be only 60 seconds?

No-one did. I said a 60 second delay near the start of this route wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

Del2005

n97 mini wrote: »

What would the bus driver do with the children if the bus caught fire while she was in the shop? We're getting into hypothetical and improbable situations here.

Back in reality, holding the bus up by 60 seconds at the start of the route would not make any noticeable difference. Even the next major stop isn't for 4.5km.

I'll say it again, the bus driver isn't responsible for the children. The person who brought them to the stop is. Why should she expect a bus driver, and his passengers, look after her responsibilities while she wanders off to a shop.

A bus catching fire is completely different issue to someone trying to board with a load of kids with the incorrect payment method.

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

No-one did. I said a 60 second delay near the start of this route wouldn't make any noticeable difference.

But you have no idea if it would be 60 seconds or a multiple of that so it is irrelevant. Also like I said you have no idea if the driver was already causing an obstruction in the village. So it is pointless saying he could of done this or that or the other.

n97 mini

I'm not really interested in a petty argument. Bus driver didn't oblige or go above and beyond the call of duty in any way, but it would have been nice if he had, and a slight delay at the start of this very long route wouldn't have made a lot of difference to anyone.

Del2005 wrote: »

I'll say it again, the bus driver isn't responsible for the children.

Bus driver has a duty of care towards all passengers.

miller50841

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm not really interested in a petty argument. Bus driver didn't oblige or go above and beyond the call of duty in any way, but it would have been nice if he had, and a slight delay at the start of this very long route wouldn't have made a lot of difference to anyone.



Bus driver has a duty of care towards all passengers.

If they pay yes otherwise they are not passengers.
Before you say also free passes and ticket holders also...

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GG21057

AlekSmart wrote: »

GG,could you perhaps confirm the exact terminology which the Busdriver allegedly used to your wife ?

You say,that your wife said,the Busdriver said..."Cash is not accepted".

Perhaps an element of "Dúirt bean liom go ndúirt bean léi",at play ?

As The BAC back-office Cash Counting system is automated and utilises Coin Counting machines,any note arriving with the coinage requires a manual intervention to remove it if its not to be shredded by,or jam up, the counting machinery.

In the "old-days" such human resources were available,however the constant quest for efficiency has meant automated systems are just that....untouched by human hand.

As a Busdriver myself,I and my colleagues,deal constantly (Incredibly,given it's more expensive than the pre-paid/Leapcard alternative) in Cash.

We do not accept NOTES,which is quite a different scenario,which is why I place some importance in the clarity of EXACTLY what the Busdriver concerned said to your wife.

In addition,I note that your Wife says the Busdriver then asked,rather than told,her to leave the bus,it may appear semantic,but it does give a sense of what attitude our alleged "Dick" was displaying towards this Customer Group.

Telling a woman and 7 children to get off a Bus in this instance,is difficult to countenance,however advising her of the situation and having her make the decision to leave could be one alternative ?

As an aside,I have encountered this issue on many occasions,and my own response is usually to immediately make a P/A announcement to this effect....

"Are there any passengers in the Lower Saloon with change in coin of a €X Note for a passenger,as this may prevent further DELAY"

This usually has two results,either the Note Bearer suddenly remembers a forgotten stash of coin,or more commonly,a rush of IMF style bailers-outers keen for the journey to continue,will appear and settle the affair.

On the very rare occasion when the PA does not produce a result,I will advise the Note Bearer that if they wish to continue their journey it will be at risk of incurring a Standard Fare.

Then,as soon as I reach a location close to a shop I will ask the Note Bearer if they would try for change,whilst I wait for them...It is important however,to keep the other passengers informed as to the cause of the delay.

I am not calling shenannigans on the OP,but that "Driver told her that Cash is not accepted"quote just does'nt quite gel with me.

By far and away the best avenue to avoid this scenario is the carrying of a Credited LeapCard...always remembering that even Bus Atha Cliath averse Cardholders can still make comprehensive use of it on Luas/DART/Suburban Rail/Wexford Bus/Matthews Coach/Cork City Bus.

Anyway GG,I do hope your wife (and Kids !) has recovered from the experience,with perhaps a Call to Customer Comment @ 8734222 just to advise of this experience...who knows,you might get a brace of Family Ramblers in recompense ?

Thanks for the feedback. When I said that the driver said he doesn't take 'cash' I meant it in the sense of paper cash rather than coinage.
Based on feedback here, we were in the wrong even though it'd be nice if the driver had some autonomy in this type of situation.
I have nothing to say to Customer Comment - think it has been done quite perfectly here!