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Ireland v England Sept 3

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    #122
    Dozen Wicked Words
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,325 ✭✭✭✭Dozen Wicked Words


    Watching highlights, apart from odd bit of booing, thought the crowd were extremely generous, lot of warm applause for boundaries and 50s etc.


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    #123
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,860 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Gambas wrote: »
    Probably not the best example, as he played at underage level for England before switching to Wales.

    Fair enough, and a good few ROI players are in the same position having played underage with NI, England etc. The difference is, once they get to representative level, there is no going back.


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    #124
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    Fair enough, and a good few ROI players are in the same position having played underage with NI, England etc. The difference is, once they get to representative level, there is no going back.

    A difference is.

    Look I don't want to sound obnoxious here folks, but comparing this situation with Football is just silly. They are not only different sports but completely different structures.

    Football is easy, if you play full international for Ireland, you have played at the top of your sport. You get your shot to compete for the right to go to the Euros and the WC.

    There is nothing comparable to Test cricket in football. There is nothing comparable to the ICC member structure in football.

    Test cricket is largely why this happens. Money is a factor as someone has pointed out, but the money is only really better if you are good enough to play Test.

    I was fairly cut up yesterday, but when you think about it, England put a lot into our players and probably deserve to take them if they see fit. Morgan probably thinks he is being diplomatic but I think he just needs to STFU now and again. I understand he is doing well for himself and part of me is happy he had a strong knock yesterday, because I don't want to see players leave us in vain, but he needs to be aware that his comments kind of piss all over the Irish fans now and again.

    Rankin I feel is a different story. I have said before that ECB are the villains in the piece, its probably a bit too emotive of me, but in this case I think its warranted. I don't think Boyd is good enough to play Test cricket for England, (barring an injury apocalypse) and I'm not convinced that the ECB do either. Now you couldn't expect him to believe that, so I place that one firmly at their feet. My worst fear is that Stirling will go, play an ODI or two and not get a look because he is "too much of a one-day player".

    I disagree with whoever said that its galling to have Joyce back. I think its great that he could come back and contribute, even if he did do riverdance on his stumps. I'm only sorry he had to wait 4 years after, which is why the new 2 years rule is a gift.


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    #125
    StephenHendry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,146 ✭✭✭StephenHendry


    good effort by us yesterday against an england b team but anyway we can only improve and for a while yesterday, england were struggling. ourselves and scotland can only benefit from these games against the stronger sides. i'm not sure whether we can be competing in test series for a good while yet but we've made great progress in a short space of time. i think welsh cricket fans would love to have an international side of their own but for alot of different reasons this may/may not happen


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    #126
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    ....
    I was pretty critical of Rankin when he first turned but while we'll probably never know what really happened it certainly seems like he was put under a lot of pressure to retire from Irish cricket. And what galls me is that while I have no problem with Rankin or Morgan playing test cricket for England since they have no other choice, the path to test cricket should not being through playing ODIs for England.


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    #127
    djimi
    Registered Users Posts: 13,238 ✭✭✭✭djimi


    riffmongous wrote: »
    the path to test cricket should not being through playing ODIs for England.

    England have a history of bringing test players through the ODI side though. So for players like Morgan and Rankin who have not come up through the English system and who have comparatively little county experience, its probably the most straightforward way for them to stake their claim in the test side. The reality for those players is that they probably wouldnt get much of a look in at test level without starting in the ODI side first.


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    #128
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    djimi wrote: »
    England have a history of bringing test players through the ODI side though. So for players like Morgan and Rankin who have not come up through the English system and who have comparatively little county experience, its probably the most straightforward way for them to stake their claim in the test side. The reality for those players is that they probably wouldnt get much of a look in at test level without starting in the ODI side first.

    I think England have started to move away from that system recently though right? I havent followed the english squad very much the last years but I thought the big differences between the odi,20/20 and test squads pointed towards a change in selection. Plus Morgan and Rankin have been playing country cricket for a few years now iirc. Morgan's first class average this season was only 32, incidentally Joyce average 70. Rankin averaged 24 in bowling, Murtagh ironically 19.

    To put it one way, if Irish players want to play test cricket for England, then great, that actually helps the cause of Irish cricket. But there needs to be a better system for it, what we can't tolerate is a situation where England uses the carrot of test cricket to get themselves a few handy odi players. Morgan was talking in an interview just before the game about helping Stirling to qualify for England in a year, dockwell will also realistically get an odi chance within a few years


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    #129
    d'Oracle
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭d'Oracle


    riffmongous wrote: »
    I think England have started to move away from that system recently though right? I havent followed the english squad very much the last years but I thought the big differences between the odi,20/20 and test squads pointed towards a change in selection. Plus Morgan and Rankin have been playing country cricket for a few years now iirc. Morgan's first class average this season was only 32, incidentally Joyce average 70. Rankin averaged 24 in bowling, Murtagh ironically 19.

    Bout right. Joyce is so much better suited to the long format, yet he got dropped on the back of a few ODI's.


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    #130
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    d'Oracle wrote: »
    Bout right. Joyce is so much better suited to the long format, yet he got dropped on the back of a few ODI's.

    Joyce was treated very unfairly I thought, more or less he was the scapegoat for a poor world cup


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