Another woman dies after being denied an abortion in Ireland

Demonique

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/21/we-were-told-nothing-could-be-done-in-ireland/

She sought treatment in Ireland but was told nothing could be done so she went to England and ended up dying



It's a disgrace

Earthwalker

..Joe.

Knex*

Link to the actual article and not just images?

Personally, I'm pro choice, but its very hard to know what the full story is here, so quite hard to come out and label it a disgrace.

1ZRed

I know, we all agree, just that nothing seems to be getting done about it soon enough. So we're just going to have the same thread about abortion as we always do here and arrive at the same outcome as ever -our government are spineless gobshítes, which we all know and agree on too.

/thread?

efb

And loads of new regs will appear

I assume it'll be front-page news the first time an Irish woman dies while getting an "abortion" in Ireland.

Peregrine

I think I'll need more info before commenting..

Anyone got a good link that's not a picture of the newspaper?

Frank Lee Midere

She died after an abortion in the NHS. Hard to blame anti-abortion laws for this.

Mardy Bum

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

She died after an abortion in the NHS. Hard to blame anti-abortion laws for this.

Its hard to know anything about the case really with the information given.

FouxDaFaFa

The picture is a screenshot of tomorrow's Irish Times. It hasn't been published yet.

So this is all we have.

There's not a lot of information except the two sub-headings which suggest that this may have been an abortion which was undertaken for medical reasons (as she sought treatment from an Irish hospital).

I don't know what to make of the bit about the Crown Prosecution Service. It may be procedure to prepare a file when someone dies like this but it could also suggest malpractice.

Jumboman

Here we go more abortion propaganda.

Doctor Jimbob

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

What's with the quotes?

I just find it on when medically necessary terminations are called abortions.

mikemac1

Irish times story

Police in the UK are investigating the case of a woman who travelled from Dublin to London for an abortion but died hours after the procedure had taken place.
The 32-year-old woman, who was a foreign national living in Ireland, underwent an abortion at a Marie Stopes clinic in west London. However, she died in a taxi hours after the procedure.
The woman, who was legally resident in Ireland, had sought an abortion at a maternity hospital in Dublin but had been told that it was not legally possible to provide one in this jurisdiction.
She is understood to have had a condition which raised the risk of miscarriage, although it was not believed to be in any way life-threatening.
The London Metropolitan Police has confirmed it was investigating the circumstances surrounding the case and preparing a file for the Crown Prosecution Services. It declined to comment further.
Marie Stopes yesterday declined to comment on the case on the basis of client-confidentiality.
The woman died in January 2012. An inquest has not yet been held into the woman’s death as the police investigation is continuing.

Anonymous
The woman’s husband, who wishes to remain anonymous, said he is still waiting for answers but is frustrated at the lack of progress.
“I think if this was an Irish or a British woman, we would know what happened to her. But I am still waiting for answers,” he told The Irish Times.
He also said he was frustrated at the lack of assistance from some Irish authorities in seeking an abortion for his wife.
He said his wife had a child in Ireland in 2010 but the pregnancy was painful and complicated by extensive fibroids.
The husband said the couple was told that treatment of the condition could involve a procedure that would leave her infertile.
“We were worried about what would happen when she became pregnant again,” he said.
“She was sick, but we were told that nothing could be done in Ireland.”

Twenty weeks pregnant
He said his wife was about 20 weeks pregnant when she travelled to Britain for an abortion. She might have had an abortion sooner, he added, but he and his wife had spent time exploring the various options available to them and raising money for the procedure.
“We were left on our own to deal with it. We didn’t get any help at all,” he said.
Both he and his wife were in Ireland on student visas at the time.
He is now 33 years of age and living in Ireland with his three-year-old daughter.

Maternal mortality
The woman’s case is likely to be examined by the UK’s Centre for Maternal and Child Enquiries, an organisation aimed at reducing the incidence of maternal mortality.
Maternal deaths are relatively rare in the UK. A recent report by the centre found that between 2006 and 2008 a total of 261 women in the UK died directly or indirectly related to pregnancy.
The overall maternal mortality rate was 11 per 100,000 maternities.
Thousands of Irish women travel to the UK for abortions every year. Latest figures show that almost 4,000 women from the Republic travelled to England or Wales for an abortion last year.

edit: Mods I've read the charter to see if we are allowed post up full articles and I couldn't find anything.

Cool_CM

Story here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/police-in-london-investigate-case-of-woman-who-died-after-travelling-from-dublin-to-uk-for-abortion-1.1470902

Happened last year and only breaking now though.

Knex*

Two things stand out for me:

she died in a taxi hours after the procedure.

and

She is understood to have had a condition which raised the risk of miscarriage, although it was not believed to be in any way life-threatening

Makes me question whether it was malpractice or something other than the lack of an earlier abortion that led to her death.

Is it normal for someone to be released from hospital, unsupervised, so soon after the procedure?

FouxDaFaFa

January 2012?

It's strange the fact that this happened so long ago gets such a small mention.

That is terribly sad. It must be very difficult for her partner still not knowing what exactly went wrong.

padz

abortion isint without its own dangers for the mother, its also not impossible for a woman to die in childbirth, more fodder for the pro choice groups but i dont see how it applies here,

she got an abortion and unfortunately passed away, one could also argue against abortion in this instance as it seams kinda dangerous

skimpydoo

As far as I can see she did not have a life threatening condition so I fail to see why she needed an abortion. Also the abortion happened in the U.K. so do we know yet if it was medical malpractice?. Until we know all the facts we are left presuming.

Laneyh

padz wrote: »

abortion isint without its own dangers for the mother, its also not impossible for a woman to die in childbirth, more fodder for the pro choice groups but i dont see how it applies here,

she got an abortion and unfortunately passed away, one could also argue against abortion in this instance as it seams kinda dangerous

One could argue either side of it really - if abortion was available in hospitals here she wouldn't have had the added risk of travelling

I don't fully know what standard practice is in the UK but being allowed to leave in a taxi hours after the procedure seems bad.

Of course many women who travel from Ireland to have an abortion may not be able to get much time off from work or want anyone to guess what they've been doing. In which case maybe they rush back before they're really ready to.
You'd hope the clinic would provide after care but it is bound to be more difficult in the case of someone not resident in the country

Even when the new protection of life bill is brought in a case similar to this woman's probably wouldn't allow for a medical abortion here.

If abortion was generally accessible here it might reduce the risk of such an event.

Either way is a tragic thing to happen and devastating for the husband
- not sure he's right when he says if it was a British or Irish woman he would know what happened already though.

Cookie_Monster

skimpydoo wrote: »

As far as I can see she did not have a life threatening condition so I fail to see why she needed an abortion.

Maybe it was simply wanted rather than needed.

Fr_Dougal

>20 weeks...wow...can't the foetus survive on it's own after 20 weeks?

Jester252

Youth Defence will be all over this like a fat kid with a smartie

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Maybe it was simply wanted rather than needed.

Yup, and so the "debate" moves on.

Demonique

padz wrote: »

abortion isint without its own dangers for the mother, its also not impossible for a woman to die in childbirth, more fodder for the pro choice groups but i dont see how it applies here,

she got an abortion and unfortunately passed away, one could also argue against abortion in this instance as it seams kinda dangerous

Pregnancy is more risky than abortion

Demonique

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

>20 weeks...wow...can't the foetus survive on it's own after 20 weeks?

No it can't, the earliest a baby has survived is just under 22 weeks, but most born at 22 weeks don't survive

skimpydoo

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Maybe it was simply wanted rather than needed.

Which is why free for all abortion is banned here.

mikemac1

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Can't read the article anyway.

Yes you can

Canis Lupus

skimpydoo wrote: »

Which is why free for all abortion is banned here.

Because we shouldn't let women choose what they do with their own bodies. I'm surprised we bother educating women and letting them out of the house etc.

vepyewwo

The title of this thread is a bit misleading. It implies that she died because she was denied an abortion in Ireland - when you actually read the article there was no medical reason for one. It was her own decision to go to the UK for a termination. We don't have all the details but from what was written, I would be looking more at the care /after care she was given in the UK rather than immediately blaming this on Ireland's current legal stance on abortion. In any case, it goes without saying that her death was tragic.

jank

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

>20 weeks...wow...can't the foetus survive on it's own after 20 weeks?

That is quite high alright. There is a bit of a push in the UK to bring the limit from 24 weeks down to 20 weeks.

HondaSami

Demonique wrote: »

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/21/we-were-told-nothing-could-be-done-in-ireland/

She sought treatment in Ireland but was told nothing could be done so she went to England and ended up dying



It's a disgrace

She choose to have an abortion, it's irrelevant where she had it there are risks involved and she would have been or should have been aware of these facts.
This lady died in the uk where abortion is normal practise so what went wrong? We have no idea if she had other complications that lead to her death but either way it's sad.

DeanAustin

Sad story regardless of where you sit on abortion.

Bit pathetic that some people are misrepresenting the story for some cheap point scoring.

HondaSami

Laneyh wrote: »

One could argue either side of it really - if abortion was available in hospitals here she wouldn't have had the added risk of travelling
.

There is no added risk with travelling, if she had the abortion here she would still have to travel to hospital, she died in a taxi after leaving hospital, she would still have to leave hospital here.

conorhal

HondaSami wrote: »

There is no added risk with travelling, if she had the abortion here she would still have to travel to hospital, she died in a taxi after leaving hospital, she would still have to leave hospital here.

It just shows how weak their argument is that they have to emotively twist cases that are ultimately shown to be ones involving medical negligence to suit their arguments and pretend that the victims they are using (abusing?) are a product of the failure to introduce a liberal abortion regime into Ireland, when all the facts show that clearly they are not.

The headline should have read, 'Two dead due to abortion'.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

conorhal wrote: »

It just shows how weak their argument is that they have to emotively twist cases that are ultimately shown to be ones involving medical negligence to suit their arguments and pretend that the victims they are using (abusing?) are a product of the failure to introduce a liberal abortion regime into Ireland, when all the facts show that clearly they are not.

The headline should have read, 'Two dead due to abortion'.

Who are the "They" you keep referring to?
And as far as I can see only one person died as as a result!

conorhal

Old and grey wrote: »

Who are the "They" you keep referring to?

'They' of the Irish Times probort brigade.

Old and grey wrote: »

And as far as I can see only one person died as as a result!

Shortsighted?

tritium

As usual vested interests are spinning this tragedy to push their own agenda. The Irish times report was a particularly good example of this. It appears that the crux of the story is that a woman went to the UK for a non medically required abortion and due to as yet unknown factors subsequently died. Without any further information its hard to see how a more or less liberal abortion availability is advocated by this event.

But of course that won't stop the folks at either end of this argument telling the bulk of us sitting in the middle how we're either butchers or backwards facists for endorsing a very limited availability in cases where there's a medical need.....

DeanAustin

Old and grey wrote: »

Who are the "They" you keep referring to?
And as far as I can see only one person died as as a result!

Ah look, would the two of ye cut it out.

Ye both know what each other means but just have differing views on the subject. This is a tragic story and two posters having a pissing contest is a bit unnecessary.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

conorhal wrote: »

'They' of the Irish Times probort brigade.

Story is the Indo as well:P


Shortsighted?

Nope, just realistic. One unfortunate woman died, may she rest in peace.
Appears to be a case of either negligence or pure bad luck. Either way a husband is without his wife and a young child without its mother.
The only one I can see "using" this is yourself, and in a very disturbing manner.

padd b1975

1ZRed wrote: »

I know, we all agree, just that nothing seems to be getting done about it soon enough. So we're just going to have the same thread about abortion as we always do here and arrive at the same outcome as ever -our government are spineless gobshítes, which we all know and agree on too.

/thread?

Speak for your self there Chief.:cool:

conorhal

Old and grey wrote: »

Nope, just realistic. One unfortunate woman died, may she rest in peace.
Appears to be a case of either negligence or pure bad luck. Either way a husband is without his wife and a young child without its mother.
The only one I can see "using" this is yourself, and in a very disturbing manner.

The only people 'using' this case are those pushing their probort agenda, I seriously doubt the Irish Times will be giving front page coverage to the first woman to die as a result of an abortion in an Irish clinic....

Gongoozler

Funnily enough this could be used by either side to push an agenda - anti abortion side say look women will die if you allow abortions, pro choice say look at what happens when you force women to go elsewhere.

anncoates

I'm pro choice but complicatiins could have occured here if she could have procured a termination.

It's obviously a disgrace that she had to go tthere in the first place but I'd be wary of using the death as publicity and agenda drivibg based on the facts so far.

pablohoney87

conorhal wrote: »

The only people 'using' this case are those pushing their probort agenda, I seriously doubt the Irish Times will be giving front page coverage to the first woman to die as a result of an abortion in an Irish clinic....

Proabort
Pro-Death
Anti-choice
Anti-Life

These are all terms that show how unwilling somebody is to have any intelligent discussion on the matter or pro-life vs pro-choice.

Whether you like the terms or not have the respect to address the camps by their appropriate names. You wouldn't like the pro-choice side to only refer to you as knuckle-draggers now would you?

everdead.ie

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

She died after an abortion in the NHS. Hard to blame anti-abortion laws for this.

I'd have to agree with this I would of thought it would be safer in the UK then Ireland.

Tragic though I hope the family get the answers they deserve.

OldNotWIse

here we go again

shruikan2553

Both sides can make use of this and both sides will probably ignore a few facts (im sure theres a pro life groups will ignore most of them) to suit them. People can die from a medical procedure at any time. At 20 weeks it would of been more stressful on her body and the arguement that could be made that if she had the abortion here it would of been a few weeks soon. Cant tell until we know more.

Dravokivich

HondaSami wrote: »

There is no added risk with travelling, if she had the abortion here she would still have to travel to hospital, she died in a taxi after leaving hospital, she would still have to leave hospital here.

Yeah, but to get to a hospital here, she wouldn't need to get a plane or a boat beforehand.

OldNotWIse

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but to get to a hospital here, she wouldn't need to get a plane or a boat beforehand.

She died because she had to get "a plane or a boat"? Better cancel the holiday plans.

Dravokivich

OldNotWIse wrote: »

She died because she had to get "a plane or a boat"? Better cancel the holiday plans.

No, I was merely demonstrating what Hondasami considering travelling, was not to the same extent of what was implied in the article. It's also generally recommended that pregnant women don't do that sort of travelling either. Her death could of been due to a whole range of factors and tiredness from such travelling could be some part of it.

HondaSami

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but to get to a hospital here, she wouldn't need to get a plane or a boat beforehand.

What difference does that make? Some people have to travel long distance to hospitals here, using travel as a reason for her death is stupid IMO.