Another woman dies after being denied an abortion in Ireland

DeanAustin · 22-07-2013 08:26AM

Sad story regardless of where you sit on abortion.

Bit pathetic that some people are misrepresenting the story for some cheap point scoring.

HondaSami · 22-07-2013 08:29AM

Laneyh wrote: »

One could argue either side of it really - if abortion was available in hospitals here she wouldn't have had the added risk of travelling
.

There is no added risk with travelling, if she had the abortion here she would still have to travel to hospital, she died in a taxi after leaving hospital, she would still have to leave hospital here.

conorhal · 22-07-2013 08:40AM

HondaSami wrote: »

There is no added risk with travelling, if she had the abortion here she would still have to travel to hospital, she died in a taxi after leaving hospital, she would still have to leave hospital here.

It just shows how weak their argument is that they have to emotively twist cases that are ultimately shown to be ones involving medical negligence to suit their arguments and pretend that the victims they are using (abusing?) are a product of the failure to introduce a liberal abortion regime into Ireland, when all the facts show that clearly they are not.

The headline should have read, 'Two dead due to abortion'.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-07-2013 08:46AM

conorhal wrote: »

It just shows how weak their argument is that they have to emotively twist cases that are ultimately shown to be ones involving medical negligence to suit their arguments and pretend that the victims they are using (abusing?) are a product of the failure to introduce a liberal abortion regime into Ireland, when all the facts show that clearly they are not.

The headline should have read, 'Two dead due to abortion'.

Who are the "They" you keep referring to?

And as far as I can see only one person died as as a result!

conorhal · 22-07-2013 08:49AM

Old and grey wrote: »

Who are the "They" you keep referring to?

'They' of the Irish Times probort brigade.

Old and grey wrote: »

And as far as I can see only one person died as as a result!

Shortsighted?

tritium · 22-07-2013 08:50AM

As usual vested interests are spinning this tragedy to push their own agenda. The Irish times report was a particularly good example of this. It appears that the crux of the story is that a woman went to the UK for a non medically required abortion and due to as yet unknown factors subsequently died. Without any further information its hard to see how a more or less liberal abortion availability is advocated by this event.

But of course that won't stop the folks at either end of this argument telling the bulk of us sitting in the middle how we're either butchers or backwards facists for endorsing a very limited availability in cases where there's a medical need.....

DeanAustin · 22-07-2013 08:50AM

Old and grey wrote: »

Who are the "They" you keep referring to?
And as far as I can see only one person died as as a result!

Ah look, would the two of ye cut it out.

Ye both know what each other means but just have differing views on the subject. This is a tragic story and two posters having a pissing contest is a bit unnecessary.

Sir Humphrey Appleby · 22-07-2013 08:52AM

conorhal wrote: »

'They' of the Irish Times probort brigade.

Story is the Indo as well:P

Shortsighted?

Nope, just realistic. One unfortunate woman died, may she rest in peace.
Appears to be a case of either negligence or pure bad luck. Either way a husband is without his wife and a young child without its mother.
The only one I can see "using" this is yourself, and in a very disturbing manner.

padd b1975 · 22-07-2013 08:54AM

1ZRed wrote: »

I know, we all agree, just that nothing seems to be getting done about it soon enough. So we're just going to have the same thread about abortion as we always do here and arrive at the same outcome as ever -our government are spineless gobshítes, which we all know and agree on too.

/thread?

Speak for your self there Chief.:cool:

conorhal · 22-07-2013 09:10AM

Old and grey wrote: »

Nope, just realistic. One unfortunate woman died, may she rest in peace.
Appears to be a case of either negligence or pure bad luck. Either way a husband is without his wife and a young child without its mother.
The only one I can see "using" this is yourself, and in a very disturbing manner.

The only people 'using' this case are those pushing their probort agenda, I seriously doubt the Irish Times will be giving front page coverage to the first woman to die as a result of an abortion in an Irish clinic....

Gongoozler · 22-07-2013 09:13AM

Funnily enough this could be used by either side to push an agenda - anti abortion side say look women will die if you allow abortions, pro choice say look at what happens when you force women to go elsewhere.

anncoates · 22-07-2013 09:17AM

I'm pro choice but complicatiins could have occured here if she could have procured a termination.

It's obviously a disgrace that she had to go tthere in the first place but I'd be wary of using the death as publicity and agenda drivibg based on the facts so far.

pablohoney87 · 22-07-2013 09:17AM

conorhal wrote: »

The only people 'using' this case are those pushing their probort agenda, I seriously doubt the Irish Times will be giving front page coverage to the first woman to die as a result of an abortion in an Irish clinic....

Proabort
Pro-Death
Anti-choice
Anti-Life

These are all terms that show how unwilling somebody is to have any intelligent discussion on the matter or pro-life vs pro-choice.

Whether you like the terms or not have the respect to address the camps by their appropriate names. You wouldn't like the pro-choice side to only refer to you as knuckle-draggers now would you?

everdead.ie · 22-07-2013 09:20AM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

She died after an abortion in the NHS. Hard to blame anti-abortion laws for this.

I'd have to agree with this I would of thought it would be safer in the UK then Ireland.

Tragic though I hope the family get the answers they deserve.

OldNotWIse · 22-07-2013 09:21AM

here we go again

shruikan2553 · 22-07-2013 09:21AM

Both sides can make use of this and both sides will probably ignore a few facts (im sure theres a pro life groups will ignore most of them) to suit them. People can die from a medical procedure at any time. At 20 weeks it would of been more stressful on her body and the arguement that could be made that if she had the abortion here it would of been a few weeks soon. Cant tell until we know more.

Dravokivich · 22-07-2013 09:36AM

HondaSami wrote: »

There is no added risk with travelling, if she had the abortion here she would still have to travel to hospital, she died in a taxi after leaving hospital, she would still have to leave hospital here.

Yeah, but to get to a hospital here, she wouldn't need to get a plane or a boat beforehand.

OldNotWIse · 22-07-2013 09:42AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but to get to a hospital here, she wouldn't need to get a plane or a boat beforehand.

She died because she had to get "a plane or a boat"? Better cancel the holiday plans.

Dravokivich · 22-07-2013 09:46AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

She died because she had to get "a plane or a boat"? Better cancel the holiday plans.

No, I was merely demonstrating what Hondasami considering travelling, was not to the same extent of what was implied in the article. It's also generally recommended that pregnant women don't do that sort of travelling either. Her death could of been due to a whole range of factors and tiredness from such travelling could be some part of it.

HondaSami · 22-07-2013 09:47AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yeah, but to get to a hospital here, she wouldn't need to get a plane or a boat beforehand.

What difference does that make? Some people have to travel long distance to hospitals here, using travel as a reason for her death is stupid IMO.

Dravokivich · 22-07-2013 09:48AM

HondaSami wrote: »

What difference does that make? Some people have to travel long distance to hospitals here, using travel as a reason for her death is stupid IMO.

Fine go ahead, take what I said out of context...

HondaSami · 22-07-2013 09:49AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Fine go ahead, take what I said out of context...

Sorry if I misunderstood you k.

OldNotWIse · 22-07-2013 09:53AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

No, I was merely demonstrating what Hondasami considering travelling, was not to the same extent of what was implied in the article. It's also generally recommended that pregnant women don't do that sort of travelling either. Her death could of been due to a whole range of factors and tiredness from such travelling could be some part of it.

Didnt she have some pre existing condition? Even if abortion were legal here, she could have died after. I think its sick tbh that people are trying to turn this into a Savita sequel. This womans tragic death had nothing to do with Irish abortion laws. There is no proof that it happened "because she had to travel". What needs to be looked at is why she died, why the UK hospital that carried out the procedure did not carry out proper follow up care etc, so that her family can have some answers. I dont think using her case a a political weapon is going to help them.

Dravokivich · 22-07-2013 10:12AM

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Didnt she have some pre existing condition? Even if abortion were legal here, she could have died after. I think its sick tbh that people are trying to turn this into a Savita sequel. This womans tragic death had nothing to do with Irish abortion laws. There is no proof that it happened "because she had to travel". What needs to be looked at is why she died, why the UK hospital that carried out the procedure did not carry out proper follow up care etc, so that her family can have some answers. I dont think using her case a a political weapon is going to help them.

I wasn't doing anything of the sort, so don't lump me in there. To use the idea that "She could of died here" as a part of re-enforcing what you're putting out is fairly weak. It's tragic she died, doesn't matter too much where that happened. The "Why," is just as tragic. She apparently had a condition which made Child Birth troublesome and more of a risk for her. Are you going to turn around to her widower and complain to him that he should have got the snip or use some sort of contraception? Because that's how insensitive what you are saying comes across as.

OldNotWIse · 22-07-2013 10:13AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

I wasn't doing anything of the sort, so don't lump me in there. To use the idea that "She could of died here" as a part of re-enforcing what you're putting out is fairly weak. It's tragic she died, doesn't matter too much where that happened. The "Why," is just as tragic. She apparently had a condition which made Child Birth troublesome and more of a risk for her. Are you going to turn around to her widower and complain to him that he should have got the snip or use some sort of contraception? Because that's how insensitive what you are saying comes across as.

no??

average_runner · 22-07-2013 10:17AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

No, I was merely demonstrating what Hondasami considering travelling, was not to the same extent of what was implied in the article. It's also generally recommended that pregnant women don't do that sort of travelling either. Her death could of been due to a whole range of factors and tiredness from such travelling could be some part of it.

Its only recommended you dont travel near the end of the pregnancy for god sake.

kylith · 22-07-2013 10:46AM

skimpydoo wrote: »

As far as I can see she did not have a life threatening condition so I fail to see why she needed an abortion. Also the abortion happened in the U.K. so do we know yet if it was medical malpractice?. Until we know all the facts we are left presuming.

She had previously had a difficult pregnancy and was at high risk of miscarriage. Perhaps she wished to have a termination to avoid the risks associated with late-term miscarriage.

Her husband stated that they had tried different avenues in Ireland and had had to save the money to go to the UK, hence why the termination was at 20 weeks.

It's terribly sad that this poor woman has died in this way. I guess the question is whether or not her life could have been saved were she able to access abortion services in Ireland at an earlier stage of pregnancy when the procedure would have been simpler.

OldNotWIse · 22-07-2013 10:50AM

kylith wrote: »

She had previously had a difficult pregnancy and was at high risk of miscarriage. Perhaps she wished to have a termination to avoid the risks associated with late-term miscarriage.

Her husband stated that they had tried different avenues in Ireland and had had to save the money to go to the UK, hence why the termination was at 20 weeks.

It's terribly sad that this poor woman has died in this way. I guess the question is whether or not her life could have been saved were she able to access abortion services in Ireland at an earlier stage of pregnancy when the procedure would have been simpler.

What avenues? Did they not know from day one that an abortion would not be available to her here? If its true about the money, that is incredibly sad alright. 20 weeks is so late

eireannBEAR · 22-07-2013 10:55AM

oh so now its irelands fault she died ffs!!

if anything, this shows that abortion is never the answer.
this just proves that pro-choice dont give a damn about women. and if they get their wish we will see a lot more deaths in ireland like this one.

it truly is a barbaric law that is totally against children women and men.

suicide_circus · 22-07-2013 10:56AM

the tragic death of a young woman being exploited to push an agenda, surely not!?

Another woman dies after being denied an abortion in Ireland

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