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Another woman dies after being denied an abortion in Ireland

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭Earthwalker


    ..Joe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,475 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    Link to the actual article and not just images?

    Personally, I'm pro choice, but its very hard to know what the full story is here, so quite hard to come out and label it a disgrace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,293 ✭✭✭1ZRed


    I know, we all agree, just that nothing seems to be getting done about it soon enough. So we're just going to have the same thread about abortion as we always do here and arrive at the same outcome as ever -our government are spineless gobshítes, which we all know and agree on too.

    /thread?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    And loads of new regs will appear


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I assume it'll be front-page news the first time an Irish woman dies while getting an "abortion" in Ireland.


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,424 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    I think I'll need more info before commenting..

    Anyone got a good link that's not a picture of the newspaper?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    She died after an abortion in the NHS. Hard to blame anti-abortion laws for this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,674 ✭✭✭Mardy Bum


    She died after an abortion in the NHS. Hard to blame anti-abortion laws for this.

    Its hard to know anything about the case really with the information given.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    The picture is a screenshot of tomorrow's Irish Times. It hasn't been published yet.

    So this is all we have.

    There's not a lot of information except the two sub-headings which suggest that this may have been an abortion which was undertaken for medical reasons (as she sought treatment from an Irish hospital).

    I don't know what to make of the bit about the Crown Prosecution Service. It may be procedure to prepare a file when someone dies like this but it could also suggest malpractice.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Jumboman


    Here we go more abortion propaganda.


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  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    What's with the quotes?
    I just find it on when medically necessary terminations are called abortions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Irish times story


    Police in the UK are investigating the case of a woman who travelled from Dublin to London for an abortion but died hours after the procedure had taken place.
    The 32-year-old woman, who was a foreign national living in Ireland, underwent an abortion at a Marie Stopes clinic in west London. However, she died in a taxi hours after the procedure.
    The woman, who was legally resident in Ireland, had sought an abortion at a maternity hospital in Dublin but had been told that it was not legally possible to provide one in this jurisdiction.
    She is understood to have had a condition which raised the risk of miscarriage, although it was not believed to be in any way life-threatening.
    The London Metropolitan Police has confirmed it was investigating the circumstances surrounding the case and preparing a file for the Crown Prosecution Services. It declined to comment further.
    Marie Stopes yesterday declined to comment on the case on the basis of client-confidentiality.
    The woman died in January 2012. An inquest has not yet been held into the woman’s death as the police investigation is continuing.

    Anonymous
    The woman’s husband, who wishes to remain anonymous, said he is still waiting for answers but is frustrated at the lack of progress.
    “I think if this was an Irish or a British woman, we would know what happened to her. But I am still waiting for answers,” he told The Irish Times.
    He also said he was frustrated at the lack of assistance from some Irish authorities in seeking an abortion for his wife.
    He said his wife had a child in Ireland in 2010 but the pregnancy was painful and complicated by extensive fibroids.
    The husband said the couple was told that treatment of the condition could involve a procedure that would leave her infertile.
    “We were worried about what would happen when she became pregnant again,” he said.
    “She was sick, but we were told that nothing could be done in Ireland.”

    Twenty weeks pregnant
    He said his wife was about 20 weeks pregnant when she travelled to Britain for an abortion. She might have had an abortion sooner, he added, but he and his wife had spent time exploring the various options available to them and raising money for the procedure.
    “We were left on our own to deal with it. We didn’t get any help at all,” he said.
    Both he and his wife were in Ireland on student visas at the time.
    He is now 33 years of age and living in Ireland with his three-year-old daughter.

    Maternal mortality
    The woman’s case is likely to be examined by the UK’s Centre for Maternal and Child Enquiries, an organisation aimed at reducing the incidence of maternal mortality.
    Maternal deaths are relatively rare in the UK. A recent report by the centre found that between 2006 and 2008 a total of 261 women in the UK died directly or indirectly related to pregnancy.
    The overall maternal mortality rate was 11 per 100,000 maternities.
    Thousands of Irish women travel to the UK for abortions every year. Latest figures show that almost 4,000 women from the Republic travelled to England or Wales for an abortion last year.

    edit: Mods I've read the charter to see if we are allowed post up full articles and I couldn't find anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,019 ✭✭✭Cool_CM




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,475 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    Two things stand out for me:
    she died in a taxi hours after the procedure.

    and
    She is understood to have had a condition which raised the risk of miscarriage, although it was not believed to be in any way life-threatening

    Makes me question whether it was malpractice or something other than the lack of an earlier abortion that led to her death.

    Is it normal for someone to be released from hospital, unsupervised, so soon after the procedure?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,850 ✭✭✭FouxDaFaFa


    January 2012?

    It's strange the fact that this happened so long ago gets such a small mention.

    That is terribly sad. It must be very difficult for her partner still not knowing what exactly went wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 499 ✭✭padz


    abortion isint without its own dangers for the mother, its also not impossible for a woman to die in childbirth, more fodder for the pro choice groups but i dont see how it applies here,

    she got an abortion and unfortunately passed away, one could also argue against abortion in this instance as it seams kinda dangerous


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    As far as I can see she did not have a life threatening condition so I fail to see why she needed an abortion. Also the abortion happened in the U.K. so do we know yet if it was medical malpractice?. Until we know all the facts we are left presuming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭Laneyh


    padz wrote: »
    abortion isint without its own dangers for the mother, its also not impossible for a woman to die in childbirth, more fodder for the pro choice groups but i dont see how it applies here,

    she got an abortion and unfortunately passed away, one could also argue against abortion in this instance as it seams kinda dangerous

    One could argue either side of it really - if abortion was available in hospitals here she wouldn't have had the added risk of travelling

    I don't fully know what standard practice is in the UK but being allowed to leave in a taxi hours after the procedure seems bad.

    Of course many women who travel from Ireland to have an abortion may not be able to get much time off from work or want anyone to guess what they've been doing. In which case maybe they rush back before they're really ready to.
    You'd hope the clinic would provide after care but it is bound to be more difficult in the case of someone not resident in the country

    Even when the new protection of life bill is brought in a case similar to this woman's probably wouldn't allow for a medical abortion here.

    If abortion was generally accessible here it might reduce the risk of such an event.

    Either way is a tragic thing to happen and devastating for the husband
    - not sure he's right when he says if it was a British or Irish woman he would know what happened already though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,755 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    As far as I can see she did not have a life threatening condition so I fail to see why she needed an abortion.

    Maybe it was simply wanted rather than needed.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    >20 weeks...wow...can't the foetus survive on it's own after 20 weeks?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭Jester252


    Youth Defence will be all over this like a fat kid with a smartie


  • Posts: 25,909 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Maybe it was simply wanted rather than needed.

    Yup, and so the "debate" moves on.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Demonique


    padz wrote: »
    abortion isint without its own dangers for the mother, its also not impossible for a woman to die in childbirth, more fodder for the pro choice groups but i dont see how it applies here,

    she got an abortion and unfortunately passed away, one could also argue against abortion in this instance as it seams kinda dangerous

    Pregnancy is more risky than abortion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Demonique


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    >20 weeks...wow...can't the foetus survive on it's own after 20 weeks?

    No it can't, the earliest a baby has survived is just under 22 weeks, but most born at 22 weeks don't survive


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,727 ✭✭✭skimpydoo


    Maybe it was simply wanted rather than needed.
    Which is why free for all abortion is banned here.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Can't read the article anyway.

    Yes you can


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    skimpydoo wrote: »
    Which is why free for all abortion is banned here.

    Because we shouldn't let women choose what they do with their own bodies. I'm surprised we bother educating women and letting them out of the house etc.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 255 ✭✭vepyewwo


    The title of this thread is a bit misleading. It implies that she died because she was denied an abortion in Ireland - when you actually read the article there was no medical reason for one. It was her own decision to go to the UK for a termination. We don't have all the details but from what was written, I would be looking more at the care /after care she was given in the UK rather than immediately blaming this on Ireland's current legal stance on abortion. In any case, it goes without saying that her death was tragic.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 13,016 ✭✭✭✭jank


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    >20 weeks...wow...can't the foetus survive on it's own after 20 weeks?

    That is quite high alright. There is a bit of a push in the UK to bring the limit from 24 weeks down to 20 weeks.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭HondaSami


    Demonique wrote: »
    http://www.broadsheet.ie/2013/07/21/we-were-told-nothing-could-be-done-in-ireland/

    She sought treatment in Ireland but was told nothing could be done so she went to England and ended up dying



    It's a disgrace

    She choose to have an abortion, it's irrelevant where she had it there are risks involved and she would have been or should have been aware of these facts.
    This lady died in the uk where abortion is normal practise so what went wrong? We have no idea if she had other complications that lead to her death but either way it's sad.


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