Pistols For Gallery Rifle

dev110

I'm currently playing with the idea of getting a pistol for gallery competitions.
I want something accurate and reliable.

What would you recommend and what sort of prices would I be looking at?

Scalachi

Smith & Wesson 22A/22S/Model 41
Hammerli Xesse
Browning Buckmark
Beratta 87T

Spend the money once

Cavan duck buster

Ruger mark iii target, competition

Both are great guns and will almost fire anything

cw67irl

Scalachi wrote: »

Smith & Wesson 22A/22S/Model 41
Hammerli Xesse
Browning Buckmark
Beratta 87T

Spend the money once

Dont forget the Sig X5 !

Cass

It's a new application.

Sig X5 comes in 9mm or .40 so no hope of a license.

Must be .22lr

cw67irl

Sig can be got in 22 calibre, gunshop.ie have a few dfferent varients at the moment.


You had a cf X5 didnt you cass?

Cass

cw67irl wrote: »

Sig can be got in 22 calibre, gunshop.ie have a few dfferent varients at the moment.

• The mosquito
• P220 Classic in .22
• The 1911-22

Are the only three i know off. Conversion kits can be bought for other models but between the cost of the gun and the conversion kit it's going to be costly. More so than buying a straight .22 like the ones listed above. Plus Sig are costly enough on their own. Probably one of the more expensive pistols out there.

Howevr none in the X5 variant (that i know of)

You had a cf X5 didnt you cass?

No. Went for one but because it was after 2008 i was told it was refused as it constituted a new license.

I had the P220 X-Zone in 9mm. I had it before Nov. 2008.

cw67irl

He has a couple of X5s with the conversion kit aswell, My own was originally sourced from him i believe .

Will post a pic tonight!

Cass

That's a different story. but ..........

The X5 runs around €1500 or so (last time i got a price it was this), and the conversion kit runs at €300 or so. That's €1800 for a .22 pistol. The mags, at their height, were €90 so allowing for a cheaper mag price, and the fact it's a .22 say they are €50 each. IOW they are not a cheap gun to buy or run. They are good though.

The S&W can be gotten for between €1,200 to €800 (new & second hand). The others listed above run at €1,000 or less.


Apologies for going somewhat off topic. I'm not trying to turn this into a Sig X5 thread.

cw67irl

I think a ballpark price on the 22 version is over €2000 now!

Standard mags 45, Not sure on the price of the silver bumper/baseplates!

A great mid range pistol is the Hammerli Xesse 6inch barrel, Thats what id have if i didnt have the Sig!

Cass

Well sh*t me.

I thought prices might have dropped a little, but they've actually gone up.

cw67irl

Not on the Sig it would seem, One recently sold on here for €1600 !

rowa

I had a sig x5 in 40 calibre, absolutely lovely pistol but with the big stainless frame and slide very heavy, especially if you used it in .22lr. If it was me i'd buy a ruger or browning.

dev110

Thanks for the posts guys. I genuinely know feck all about pistols. Always fancied having one but never really looked into them to much.
From the little bit of research I have done the same names keep popping up, Sig, S&W, Ruger, etc and its the same on this thread.

I think I now need to get out and handle a few pistols and see what is comfortable and whats not. Also I will need to look at prices of mags etc. I'll start putting some money to one side and start saving for one and hopefully will have one fairly soon unless some unforeseen bill comes up.

clivej

Scalachi wrote: »

Smith & Wesson 22A/22S/Model 41
Hammerli Xesse
Browning Buckmark
Beratta 87T

Spend the money once

What Scalachi say's above are the best handguns to start off looking at.

I have shot the Hammerli Xesse, S&W 22A and 41 (with Clark 5" & 7" barrels), all very accurate. Of the 3 the Hammerli would be my first choice at €800 ish, Model 41 at €1500 is getting pricey.

Breachloader

Totally agree with Scalachi and Clivej.
Buy right, buy once.

I have shot probably every .22 pistol available in this country and can tell you that for accuracy, suitability and ease of use for gallery and precision pistol, the best choices are as follows.

1. S&W Model 41
and
2. Browning Buckmark

With these following close behind.

3. S&W 22A
4. Hammerelli xesse
5. Ruger MKIII
6. Beretta 87T


Do not touch the Walther P22, Sig Mosquito or anything similar.
And if you have the wedge, don't be tempted to go top end with the Pardini, Walther GSP route either. They are not suitable for gallery pistol as there single handed grips and magazine set up are not conducive to fast reloads and two handed shooting.

dc99

Hi,
I got a GSG 1911, in 22lr. Great gun, shoots EVERYTHING that I've put in it. only a few miss fires, that I put down to the ammo, not the pistol.

Got it from Gunshop.ie.

I'm even shooting federal bulk and it is a accurate as heck with these....just as good as the CCI mini-mags.

Recently fitted a red dot sight on it and it's like shooting fish in a barrel!

Gunshop are in Harbour House every Saturday.

sungear

Cavan duck buster wrote: »

Ruger mark iii target, competition

Both are great guns and will almost fire anything

Dont you mean, fire almost anything , I hope they do.

dc99

:-) yep that's my dyslexic typing....

sungear

dc99 wrote: »

:-) yep that's my dyslexic typing....

Sorry, I smiled though, I have one now, I like the grip angle, availability of parts to upgrade, reliability as Ive been told, and I consider that it was relatively cheap.

Smudge08

Hi, is this your first pistol? I'm hoping to get into target shooting soon and I'm just looking for as much general info as I can! Harbour house would be the range closet to me so that's where I would be looking to join also. Would a pistol like a 1911 be a difficult gun to get a licence for as a first time applicant or does this matter?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can throw some general info my way..

sungear

Smudge08 wrote: »

Hi, is this your first pistol? I'm hoping to get into target shooting soon and I'm just looking for as much general info as I can! Harbour house would be the range closet to me so that's where I would be looking to join also. Would a pistol like a 1911 be a difficult gun to get a licence for as a first time applicant or does this matter?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can throw some general info my way..

Personally, I applied for the Ruger Mk3, because of what I read, heard and saw, it seems to be one of the most accurate, for the price, is reliable and can fire a wide variety of ammunition makes without issue, I wasnt even aware .22 rimfire could be so varied and potentially fickle before I joined a club.
Im not convinced by the 1911 style .22lr for target shooting from an accuracy point of view, Id even suggest being involved in some other aspect of target shooting before pistol shooting, I wasnt even aware .22lr pistol existed until I started shooting a bolt action. Anyway, I have only had limited exposure to the .22 pistol and 1911 style, from what I saw, the sights are not adjustable and i just dont think its as accurate for target as the mk3, saying this is still from limited personal experience, other people may think differently.

BattleCorp

Smudge08 wrote: »

Hi, is this your first pistol? I'm hoping to get into target shooting soon and I'm just looking for as much general info as I can! Harbour house would be the range closet to me so that's where I would be looking to join also. Would a pistol like a 1911 be a difficult gun to get a licence for as a first time applicant or does this matter?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can throw some general info my way..

Come down to Harbour House and have a look, and yap to the lads there. See the different types of pistols that the lads are using.

I wouldn't set my heart on a 1911 style pistol. It's not that they are any harder to licence, it's just that there are more accurate pistols available for smallbore shooting.

Yes, they look cool, but a geeky looking Smith & Wesson 22A will outshoot it any day. And there are better pistols out there than the 22A.

Like I said in the first line, call down to Harbour House, talk to the lads and they will put you on the right road.

dc99

I agree, I'm a member in HH and this is where I first tried out shooting .22 pistols.

There are two retailers operating in HH and are there every Saturday morning. (well it is unusual for them to skip a week).
I've dealt with one - Gunshop.ie. Paddy will let you try out and look at the range he has. Just pay for ammo, there is a nominal range fee as well (Last time I checked). but it is cheap and a great way to get a feel from the 'game'.

I tried a few pistols but still liked the 1911 too much to let it go. Also the price was a facotr for me. I didn't get the cheapest 1911 - I brought the GSG - the colt is about 200yoyos cheaper (at the time). But you are realy gonna have to check with the dealers as to current prices.

The club is very friendly and quite big. (around 300 members I believe. Great facilities as well.).

Regarding sights and stuff. a big factor for me to go for the GSG model is that 80% of milspec parts will fit the GSG.
You can get after market sights for the GSG, but the one I got came with 3 front sights (diferant heights) and you can adjust windage on either the front or rear.
Or you can purchase adjustable sights to fit....

But hey I LOVE my GSG 1911!

Oh! as long as the gun meets the legislation spec it should be licenceable. (the dealer will guide you on this.

Smudge08

Thanks very much for the replys lads, I'm heading away on holidays for a few days so I won't make it to HH this weekend but I will def make it my business to get over there soon. I was on HH Facebook page and the whole set up looks really good. It seems it could be quite expensive to get started, licence,club,pistol etc. But that wouldn't put me off as this is something I feel I would really enjoy. I'm not overly fussy on what my first pistol is either as long as its reliable.

Thanks again, much appreciated.

Smudge08

Has anyone ever owned/ fired a sig sauer p210 legend? Or can these even be got in a .22lr version? Just was browsing through different makes of pistols and seen this and thought it looked great. Maybe I'll win the lotto some day!


http://www.sigsauerguns.com/product-highlights/p210-legend-super-target/

rowa

clivej wrote: »

What Scalachi say's above are the best handguns to start off looking at.

I have shot the Hammerli Xesse, S&W 22A and 41 (with Clark 5" & 7" barrels), all very accurate. Of the 3 the Hammerli would be my first choice at €800 ish, Model 41 at €1500 is getting pricey.

The thing about the hammerli is though it was designed to be used as a target pistol with standard velocity ammo, if you use high velocity ammo it can crack the slide (google it). Just something to think about.

BattleCorp

Smudge08 wrote: »

Has anyone ever owned/ fired a sig sauer p210 legend? Or can these even be got in a .22lr version? Just was browsing through different makes of pistols and seen this and thought it looked great. Maybe I'll win the lotto some day!


http://www.sigsauerguns.com/product-highlights/p210-legend-super-target/

If it's not a .22, you'll not only have to win the lotto, you'll have to get them to change the law too.

Cool looking pistol though.

ace86

dc99 wrote: »

Hi,
I got a GSG 1911, in 22lr. Great gun, shoots EVERYTHING that I've put in it. only a few miss fires, that I put down to the ammo, not the pistol.

Got it from Gunshop.ie.

I'm even shooting federal bulk and it is a accurate as heck with these....just as good as the CCI mini-mags.

Recently fitted a red dot sight on it and it's like shooting fish in a barrel!

Gunshop are in Harbour House every Saturday.

Any chance of a photo of your gun with the red dot sight on it??

rowa

I was lucky enough to shoot a friends Smith and Wesson 22a this morning, he only got it a short time ago, I have to say that while it isn't the most attractive pistol in the world , it is very comfortable to shoot and it has one of the best triggers on any gun I have shot. well worth a look.

dc99

I'll try in the next few days to post a pic....

LIFFY FISHING

ace86 wrote: »

Any chance of a photo of your gun with the red dot sight on it??

Wouldnt get to hung up on a red dot sight, very strict limitations regarding using rhem in competitions.

ace86

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Wouldnt get to hung up on a red dot sight, very strict limitations regarding using rhem in competitions.

I probably guessed that alright but would it not be a handy training aid for fellow starting out.

BattleCorp

LIFFY FISHING wrote: »

Wouldnt get to hung up on a red dot sight, very strict limitations regarding using rhem in competitions.

There are no limitations on red dot sights in competition. It just puts you in a different class. There are 4 classes in pistol: b class, a class, x class and then open class.

Any red dot sight or optical sight will put you in the open class. Not a restriction as such, just a different class.

Yes, there is a problem at the moment in that most people with red dot sights aren't using them in competition because of the rule change.

All we need is a few more people to start using them regularly in competition and it will encourage more people to use them.

Last year over 30 people used them in the Irish International Open, this year hardly anybody turned up with them and they didn't run the Open class as not enough people with red dot sights turned up.

What we need are people with red dot sights to start using them for competitions and that will get things competitive again.

I'm bringing my red dot sight to the next competition and I'm hoping that a few others will bring theirs too.

insignia33

WHats the craic if a lad was wanting to splash out. What would you recommend? Dont mean the obvious rugers and buckmarks. Just say you had 1500-1800 budget what would you look at. Heard the baikail izhs are good?

rowa

insignia33 wrote: »

WHats the craic if a lad was wanting to splash out. What would you recommend? Dont mean the obvious rugers and buckmarks. Just say you had 1500-1800 budget what would you look at. Heard the baikail izhs are good?

http://www.feinwerkbau.de/en/Sporting-Weapons/Target-Pistol/Target-Pistol-Model-AW93

clivej

insignia33 wrote: »

WHats the craic if a lad was wanting to splash out. What would you recommend? Dont mean the obvious rugers and buckmarks. Just say you had 1500-1800 budget what would you look at. Heard the baikail izhs are good?

rowa wrote: »

http://www.feinwerkbau.de/en/Sporting-Weapons/Target-Pistol/Target-Pistol-Model-AW93

Very nice handgun to own and use.
I had a rail put on so a red dot sight could be used but because of the rule change I now don't use one.
The AW93 is one of the top 3 handguns used by Olympic shooters and if you ever get to shoot it you will realize why. The sight, front and back, and trigger can be adjusted every which way to suit the shooter. The balance is right over the trigger centre line.

This is one of only two I've seen used in competition in Ireland

insignia33

How much would that firearm set you back (in our inflated Irish RFD prices I mean).

If theres only 2 in Ireland probably not much hope of getting a try before you buy

Lastly... how would that hold up against say a s&w41? Are we talking just a tad better, or leaving it in the dust kinda better?

clivej

insignia33 wrote: »

How much would that firearm set you back (in our inflated Irish RFD prices I mean).

If theres only 2 in Ireland probably not much hope of getting a try before you buy

Lastly... how would that hold up against say a s&w41? Are we talking just a tad better, or leaving it in the dust kinda better?

€1500-€2250 ish

If you could shoot both the AW93 will leave most others in the dust.
Do a search and read up on the AW93

"The FWB-AW93 is a Ferrari Boxer, the High Standard Supermatic Trophy 107 is a stock Ford Mustang. It looks nice and you can drive really fast but it doesn't go as fast as the boxer and doesn't handle corners as well.

Other guns to consider:

Hammerli 208s (out of production for years but still demands a high price)
Hammerli signature trailside
Morini
Benneli
Pardini SP
Walther GSP or SSP"

Breachloader

clivej wrote: »

If you could shoot both the AW93 will leave most others in the dust."

I have to disagree with you there Clive as I have shot both these guns and would still give the nod to the S&W model 41 as the better gun. It is certainly not going to be left in the dust by the AW93.

Breachloader

rowa

Breachloader wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there Clive as I have shot both these guns and would still give the nod to the S&W model 41 as the better gun. It is certainly not going to be left in the dust by the AW93.

Breachloader

The S&W m41 is a lovely pistol but its design hasn't changed in decades (1950's) , its trigger is not adjustable for weight or length of pull, only over travel, and its design was copied from the pre-war hammerli olympic. The aw93 is a far more up to date design. But i wouldn't be upset if someone dumped a m41 in my gunsafe .


http://www.bullseyepistol.com/equipmnt.htm

IRLConor

If the S&W 41 suits you better than it suits Clive and if the AW93 suits Clive better than it suits you then it's easy to see why there'd be a difference of opinion.

I suspect (without meaning any disrespect to either of you) that both pistols shoot better than both of you are capable of. If you think this isn't true, then I suggest that you upgrade. After all, who wants to be held back by their gun?

insignia33

The s&w is around 1200 and the aw93 could run me over 2K.... there must be some difference surely? Or are you just paying the extra for a brand name?

cw67irl

The Smith and Wesson 41 is closer to 1800 I think, You could always look at the Sig Sauer X5 range, Probably not as accurate as the aw or even the 41 but definitely one of the best looking 22 pistols available, Not that there will be a lot in it maximum distance you will be shooting is at 25m in competitions so the hardcore olympic style AW might be a little bit overkill!

clivej

Breachloader wrote: »

I have to disagree with you there Clive as I have shot both these guns and would still give the nod to the S&W model 41 as the better gun. It is certainly not going to be left in the dust by the AW93.

Breachloader

Quote

"If you could shoot both the AW93 will leave most others in the dust.
Do a search and read up on the AW93."

I too have shot both and the model 22a, 1911's, Ruger, Hammerelli xesse, Pardini SP, and others.

Next best for me was the Sig Sauer x5 in .22lr. Trigger was very good.

Trigger on the '41 was not what I wanted.
Bit of a difference between shooting one and owning one to use each weekend.

Model 41 was designed in '57 so now it's over 55 years. Plenty of better designed target handguns out there now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_Model_41

rowa

insignia33 wrote: »

The s&w is around 1200 and the aw93 could run me over 2K.... there must be some difference surely? Or are you just paying the extra for a brand name?

The smith is €1750 and the aw is €1880 on triebel and frankonia.

dCorbus

Have shot both FWB AW93 and the S&W Model41. Own a M41. FWB is a better pistol. BUT....

You'll probably never outshoot either of them.

And given the relative costs....S&W m41 all the way.

But I'm not really a competitive shooter.

Whichever you go for - IT MUST FIT YOU! That's all. Thank you!

insignia33

rowa wrote: »

The smith is €1750 and the aw is €1880 on triebel and frankonia.

I got that 1200 figure from the front page on this thread. Cass said it.

I suppose at those prices you mentioned they're much the same really.

Heres one last question. Since they're roughly the same price why is it that everyone seems to go for the 41 over the AW?


Id love to shoot them both and see for myself but I cant imagine that happening, especially if the AW is really as rare as suggested on the last page.

Cass

insignia33 wrote: »

I got that 1200 figure from the front page on this thread. Cass said it..

Don't believe everything i tell ya.

I've seen these guns and the owners told the prices they paid so i'm repeating what i was told. I don't shoot rimfire so if the prices are wrong then i apologise, but as said just repeating what i was told.


One i know only paid €600 for his, and it's a tack driver.

rowa

Cass wrote: »

One i know only paid €600 for his, and it's a tack driver.

That's what he told swmbo.

http://www.frankonia.de/199625/129123/productdetail.html?lastSelected=f_s_kaliber&page=1&f_s_kaliber=.22+lfb.&articleNumber=102100&navCategoryId=6756

http://triebel-shop.com/product_info.php?cPath=857_865&products_id=16147

clivej

IRLConor wrote: »

If the S&W 41 suits you better than it suits Clive and if the AW93 suits Clive better than it suits you then it's easy to see why there'd be a difference of opinion.

I suspect (without meaning any disrespect to either of you) that both pistols shoot better than both of you are capable of. If you think this isn't true, then I suggest that you upgrade. After all, who wants to be held back by their gun?

....... that both pistols shoot better than both of you are capable of

So very true. :(
Seems everyone is shooting far better than me, even those using my AW93. :mad::mad::mad: