Forging a new Union with the UK

Foxhound38

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

wretcheddomain

I think the Queen of England should be our monarch without a shadow of a doubt. I think the vast majority of posters here will agree with me.

listermint

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

Why....

eyescreamcone

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

Try getting 85 TDs to vote for that one.

Think of the hassle re the abortion debate x100

For Forks Sake

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

This well thought out thread will surely end well.

sbsquarepants

Eh, count me out, thanks all the same.

Fratton Fred

Won't somebody think of the Mau Maus?

Foxhound38

listermint wrote: »

Why....

The more pertinent question here is "why not" I think - is there any actual reasons beyond us still having a historical bee in our collective bonnets and raw emotion that we shouldn't do this?

I'm not saying to change in the aul Tri-Colour for a nice Union Jack instead - I'm just saying that the degree of seperation between our two States for no good reason is a tad ridiculous at this stage, and we have something to gain from re-exploring the relationship

gobnaitolunacy

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc"

'800 years' is the standard period of time to be oppressed by a colonial power.:D

(if there was a few zillion quid thrown into the deal, like grant money, we can be anyone's bitch)

elefant

Foxhound38 wrote: »

The more pertinent question here is "why not" I think - is there any actual reasons beyond us still having a historical bee in our collective bonnets and raw emotion that we shouldn't do this?

I'm not saying to change in the aul Tri-Colour for a nice Union Jack instead - I'm just saying that the degree of seperation between our two States for no good reason is a tad ridiculous at this stage, and we have something to gain from re-exploring the relationship

I think the most pertinent question is still most definitely 'why'. Being in Union with another state isn't the status quo.

We're not not part of Great Britain solely on the grounds of pettiness!

lkionm

We already have something very similiar.

We are their biggest exporter/importer and vice versa.

We used to have an equal exchange rate which would be good to bring back though if we had the punt but the euro is better in that way. It would be a backwards step.

jimgoose

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

'800 years' is the standard period of time to be oppressed by a colonial power.:D

That's right, these days it's defined by the SI as exactly 801 years, 4 days and 147 minutes and called the "Tanbastard". The Standard Tanbastard is stored at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures beside the international prototype kilogram.

Capercaille

British army can move back into Dublin Castle. Put a nice Union Jack over the GPO. Set up a Nuclear Submarine base in Cobh and rename it back to it's British name. Put a British military base beside Croke Park just like the one up by Crossmaglen.
British Politicians aren't corrupt at all and the British economy is doing great.
Great Idea:)

Foxhound38

elefant wrote: »

I think the most pertinent question is still most definitely 'why'. Being in Union with another state isn't the status quo.

We're not not part of Great Britain solely on the grounds of pettiness!

Then what are the grounds? I'm not talking about direct rule from London or anything - something along the lines of Home Rule.

Is there any actual reasons why we shouldn't do this?

Artful_Badger

Why would the rest of Britain want our sorry arses joining up with them ?

keeponhurling

Ireland to rejoin Britain.....sure why not?.......TROLL ALERT....... TROLL ALERT !

Jester252

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Then what are the grounds? I'm not talking about direct rule from London or anything - something along the lines of Home Rule.

Is there any actual reasons why we shouldn't do this?

Under that same logic USA, India, Hong Kong etc. should all join the new union.

Reason not to rejoin the union is simple history Ireland didn't do so well first time.

gallag

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

Karl Stein

Ireland competes with the UK for FDI and has a degree of economic dynamism it would not have under the auspices of the UK. If anyone with half a brain thinks those in London would give two fucks about the standard of living of Irish people they're seriously deluded.

Karl Stein

gallag wrote: »

Rainbows, romance, lollipops, harmony, ponies, love, care-bears, lemonade rivers...

Sure thing dude...

kneemos

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Then what are the grounds? I'm not talking about direct rule from London or anything - something along the lines of Home Rule.

Is there any actual reasons why we shouldn't do this?

Most peopld probably wouldn't like it and some of them are armed and dangerous plus considering we're both in the EU I really don't see any great advantage apart from as you say their political system but they've been at it a lot longer than us.

An Coilean

Foxhound38 wrote: »

could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

Hem hem.

NO!

That is all.

Galwayguy35

No I'm quite happy to keep the Brits as trading partners, things are nice and friendly between us these days and let's keep it that way.

Plus the fact that i couldn't see things working out too well with King Billys groupies, would they accept the Tricolour as the flag of a UI.

Methinks not....

kneemos

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

What makes you think republicans would be in any way happy with this?

SoulandForm

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

A lot of Loyalists would be incredibly opposed to it though probably a small majority of Unionists would be okay with it as long as the jurisdictions remained separate and there was no all Ireland assembly.

But most Republicans being happy about it?

Seriously how can you believe that? It would not bring peace to the north but very likely cause a full blown civil war through out the country.

Still its extremely unlikely- most anti-Republicans in the Free State are Partitionists rather than crypto-Unionists. They might not have much national pride but they have national pride enough to reject such nonsense.

Even if it didnt cause war it would be absolutely terrible for the whole country; I strongly suggest that you read this- http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/leanne-wood/britain-is-failing-wales-scotland-and-regions-its-time-for-change

You would get much further if you gave up on the outdated notion of the UK and instead advocated an independent Northern Ireland. If you could do it in a non-sectarian manner you might even get some Republican support.

My name is URL

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy

You've still to grasp the meaning of republicanism, then.

Madam

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

You really think Unionist politicians would share power in Dublin(I'd imagine thats where the Parliament would be)? Why would Ireland want to go backwards, sure with every other country on the mainland wanting their independence it sounds a bit daft - no?

Maybe the UK(if there is such a thing at the end of next year), could join a pan Celtic state instead:rolleyes:

CrabRevolution

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

Could you explain the part where Republicans would be satisfied by doing the thing they utterly abhor more than any other thing in existance?

How could a republican possibly be happy being governed by the British crown?

Duckworth_Luas

OP obviously hasn't being paying attention to the news lately.

Rioting in the streets, threats of violence, abusive messages on Twitter etc

And that was just because they dropped Brian O'Driscoll! :eek:

Galwayguy35

Madam wrote: »

You really think Unionist politicians would share power in Dublin(I'd imagine thats where the Parliament would be)? Why would Ireland want to go backwards, sure with every other country on the mainland wanting their independence it sounds a bit daft - no?

Maybe the UK(if there is such a thing at the end of next year), could join a pan Celtic state instead:rolleyes:

Where is Britain the mainland for?

Madam

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Where is Britain the mainland for?

Northern Ireland;)

padd b1975

Would joining the Commonwealth be such a bad thing especially if the referendum in the UK to leave the EU is carried?


Doubt if it would put us in a worse position as a nation than we already are.

SoulandForm

padd b1975 wrote: »

Would joining the Commonwealth be such a bad thing especially if the referendum in the UK to leave the EU is carried?


Doubt if it would put us in a worse position as a nation than we already are.

Yes it would.

The UK owes Ireland vast amounts of reparations.

gallag

SoulandForm wrote: »

The UK owes Ireland vast amounts of reparations.

Why?

imitation

Daft idea, the UK rich-poor gap increases every day as manufacturing jobs have all but left. Just take a spin around middle england filled with abandon factorys and shabby estates all over. Resource rich scotland is voting on independance.

As much as a cock up as we did on our economy with property, we have a lot of other things right like multi nationals, single currency and foreign investment. All I could see is london canabilsing this with zero interest in picking up the tab or trying to develop a low population density country.

SoulandForm

gallag wrote: »

Why?

The de-forestation of Ireland would be a good place to start.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103876

gallag

imitation wrote: »

Daft idea, the UK rich-poor gap increases every day as manufacturing jobs have all but left. Just take a spin around middle england filled with abandon factorys and shabby estates all over. Resource rich scotland is voting on independance.

As much as a cock up as we did on our economy with property, we have a lot of other things right like multi nationals, single currency and foreign investment. All I could see is london canabilsing this with zero interest in picking up the tab or trying to develop a low population density country.

Englqnd has found massive shale gas fields, manufacturers will like this and scotland is not resource rich, north sea oil production is being reduced by10% per annum.

end of the road

give up an independant republic which has its own government for devolution under another country and then on top of that still be a part of the EU? no thanks, i'm irish, i was born in ireland, i want to remain irish, i don't want to be part of britain or any other country

darkdubh

padd b1975 wrote: »

Would joining the Commonwealth be such a bad thing especially if the referendum in the UK to leave the EU is carried?


Doubt if it would put us in a worse position as a nation than we already are.

You could say the same about us becoming the 51'st US state but why would we want to do that?

Mr_Maestro

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

Have you been sniffing paint fumes ? If you think there would be equality between these four nations you must be incredibly high or a bit naive.

The English members of parliament wouldn't give two monkeys about the people living in Dublin. They barely give a rats about the Scots and Welsh !
To be honest, the Irish members of parliament wouldn't care about people in London either.

I'm all for uniting nations and breaking down barriers but Ireland and the UK have another while before any agreement on a single union could be met.

We as two nations are very similar which is mainly due to 800 years of oppression.

harney

gallag wrote: »

Englqnd has found massive shale gas fields, manufacturers will like this and scotland is not resource rich, north sea oil production is being reduced by10% per annum.

The same Scotland that is having a referendum to leave the UK next year?

end of the road

gallag wrote: »

a united Ireland back within the UK

i want a united ireland outside the UK but thanks all the same

gallag wrote: »

unionists and republicans would be happy (most).

unionists will, real republicans won't, the plastic republicans down here will be though as they are glad to sign away our sovernty at any opportunity as it means they don't have to do anything to rule the country "ah shur the EU would rule us better then our lot" is usually the excuse

gallag wrote: »

Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

the middle and upper class thatcherites would never allow that to happen

end of the road

gallag wrote: »

Why?

because it stole our country and ran a muck in it for 800 years

Deedsie

I think we should just put the shoulder to the wheel and fix they mess we created or allowed to be created around us.

I am a republican in that monarchs and that are ridiculous to me. I have no major dislike for the windsors. But I certainly wouldn't recognize them as anything more than the heads of state of the UK. I'll respect that, but not the celebrity side of it.

As for the joining with the rest of the UK, I wouldn't object to reunification with the smallest country in it. Other than that no thanks.

Foxhound38

Foxhound38 wrote: »

given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

The "whole independence thing":rolleyes:

Sure why not. I'd welcome the Brits back into the fold any day, now that they've learned their lesson. And sure we already have a constitution in place and a President held in high enough regard internationally, so I guess the transition wouldn't have to be that difficult.

Welcome back UK, to the United Republic of Ireland and Great Britain!

As for your former royal family, I'm sure we could find suitable paying jobs for them in the diplomatic service, maybe as our ambassadors to wherever they came from in the first place. Germany for example, or Greece.

Foxhound38

end of the road wrote: »

because it stole our country and ran a muck in it for 800 years

Chip on the shoulder there?

How are we going to get anywhere while this "your grandda shot my grandda" mindset continues to dominate?

Any other nation would ask themselves why they can't just let the past be the past...

And this "repairations" business is ridiculous

Frank Lee Midere

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Chip on the shoulder there?

How are we going to get anywhere while this "your grandda shot my grandda" mindset continues to dominate?

Any other nation would ask themselves why they can't just let the past be the past...

And this "repairations" business is ridiculous

Every nation remembers invasions. And starvations.

That said i might agree to this if the 4 parlianents of wales, Scotland, Ireland and England have equal voting rights.

Foxhound38

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Every nation remembers invasions. And starvations.

That said i might agree to this if the 4 parlianents of wales, Scotland, Ireland and England have equal voting rights.

I don't remember being invaded and starved - but maybe that's because I wasn't born at the time, and the people who did the invading and starving are long dead. I don't accept that current policy should be dictated by what dead men would want or political realities of decades or indeed centuries ago. We need to do what works now.

And I agree that it would need to be an equal affair.

Phill Ewinn

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I don't remember being invaded and starved - but maybe that's because I wasn't born at the time, and the people who did the invading and starving are long dead. I don't accept that current policy should be dictated by what dead men would want or political realities of decades or indeed centuries ago. We need to do what works now.

And I agree that it would need to be an equal affair.

The solution is to invade somewhere else not join the UK.


Liberia. There I said it.

Dostoevsky

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

Stupid post is stupid. Troll post is troll post.

/end.

Stojkovic

Fantastic idea.

Id go further, just a Union of Leinster and Greater London and fcuk the rest of them.