Forging a new Union with the UK

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 04:12PM #1

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

wretcheddomain · 17-07-2013 04:14PM

I think the Queen of England should be our monarch without a shadow of a doubt. I think the vast majority of posters here will agree with me.

listermint · 17-07-2013 04:14PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

Why....

eyescreamcone · 17-07-2013 04:16PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

Try getting 85 TDs to vote for that one.

Think of the hassle re the abortion debate x100

For Forks Sake · 17-07-2013 04:17PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

This well thought out thread will surely end well.

sbsquarepants · 17-07-2013 04:17PM

Eh, count me out, thanks all the same.

Fratton Fred · 17-07-2013 04:22PM

Won't somebody think of the Mau Maus?

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 04:24PM

listermint wrote: »

Why....

The more pertinent question here is "why not" I think - is there any actual reasons beyond us still having a historical bee in our collective bonnets and raw emotion that we shouldn't do this?

I'm not saying to change in the aul Tri-Colour for a nice Union Jack instead - I'm just saying that the degree of seperation between our two States for no good reason is a tad ridiculous at this stage, and we have something to gain from re-exploring the relationship

gobnaitolunacy · 17-07-2013 04:24PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc"

'800 years' is the standard period of time to be oppressed by a colonial power.:D

(if there was a few zillion quid thrown into the deal, like grant money, we can be anyone's bitch)

elefant · 17-07-2013 04:27PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

The more pertinent question here is "why not" I think - is there any actual reasons beyond us still having a historical bee in our collective bonnets and raw emotion that we shouldn't do this?

I'm not saying to change in the aul Tri-Colour for a nice Union Jack instead - I'm just saying that the degree of seperation between our two States for no good reason is a tad ridiculous at this stage, and we have something to gain from re-exploring the relationship

I think the most pertinent question is still most definitely 'why'. Being in Union with another state isn't the status quo.

We're not not part of Great Britain solely on the grounds of pettiness!

lkionm · 17-07-2013 04:29PM

We already have something very similiar.

We are their biggest exporter/importer and vice versa.

We used to have an equal exchange rate which would be good to bring back though if we had the punt but the euro is better in that way. It would be a backwards step.

jimgoose · 17-07-2013 04:30PM

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

'800 years' is the standard period of time to be oppressed by a colonial power.:D

That's right, these days it's defined by the SI as exactly 801 years, 4 days and 147 minutes and called the "Tanbastard". The Standard Tanbastard is stored at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures beside the international prototype kilogram.

Capercaille · 17-07-2013 04:30PM

British army can move back into Dublin Castle. Put a nice Union Jack over the GPO. Set up a Nuclear Submarine base in Cobh and rename it back to it's British name. Put a British military base beside Croke Park just like the one up by Crossmaglen.
British Politicians aren't corrupt at all and the British economy is doing great.
Great Idea:)

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 04:30PM

elefant wrote: »

I think the most pertinent question is still most definitely 'why'. Being in Union with another state isn't the status quo.

We're not not part of Great Britain solely on the grounds of pettiness!

Then what are the grounds? I'm not talking about direct rule from London or anything - something along the lines of Home Rule.

Is there any actual reasons why we shouldn't do this?

Artful_Badger · 17-07-2013 04:32PM

Why would the rest of Britain want our sorry arses joining up with them ?

keeponhurling · 17-07-2013 04:41PM

Ireland to rejoin Britain.....sure why not?.......TROLL ALERT....... TROLL ALERT !

Jester252 · 17-07-2013 05:05PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Then what are the grounds? I'm not talking about direct rule from London or anything - something along the lines of Home Rule.

Is there any actual reasons why we shouldn't do this?

Under that same logic USA, India, Hong Kong etc. should all join the new union.

Reason not to rejoin the union is simple history Ireland didn't do so well first time.

gallag · 17-07-2013 05:15PM

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

Karl Stein · 17-07-2013 05:16PM

Ireland competes with the UK for FDI and has a degree of economic dynamism it would not have under the auspices of the UK. If anyone with half a brain thinks those in London would give two fucks about the standard of living of Irish people they're seriously deluded.

Karl Stein · 17-07-2013 05:18PM

gallag wrote: »

Rainbows, romance, lollipops, harmony, ponies, love, care-bears, lemonade rivers...

Sure thing dude...

kneemos · 17-07-2013 05:19PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Then what are the grounds? I'm not talking about direct rule from London or anything - something along the lines of Home Rule.

Is there any actual reasons why we shouldn't do this?

Most peopld probably wouldn't like it and some of them are armed and dangerous plus considering we're both in the EU I really don't see any great advantage apart from as you say their political system but they've been at it a lot longer than us.

An Coilean · 17-07-2013 05:25PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

Hem hem.

NO!

That is all.

Galwayguy35 · 17-07-2013 05:27PM

No I'm quite happy to keep the Brits as trading partners, things are nice and friendly between us these days and let's keep it that way.

Plus the fact that i couldn't see things working out too well with King Billys groupies, would they accept the Tricolour as the flag of a UI.

Methinks not....

kneemos · 17-07-2013 05:27PM

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

What makes you think republicans would be in any way happy with this?

SoulandForm · 17-07-2013 05:30PM

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

A lot of Loyalists would be incredibly opposed to it though probably a small majority of Unionists would be okay with it as long as the jurisdictions remained separate and there was no all Ireland assembly.

But most Republicans being happy about it?

Seriously how can you believe that? It would not bring peace to the north but very likely cause a full blown civil war through out the country.

Still its extremely unlikely- most anti-Republicans in the Free State are Partitionists rather than crypto-Unionists. They might not have much national pride but they have national pride enough to reject such nonsense.

Even if it didnt cause war it would be absolutely terrible for the whole country; I strongly suggest that you read this- http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/leanne-wood/britain-is-failing-wales-scotland-and-regions-its-time-for-change

You would get much further if you gave up on the outdated notion of the UK and instead advocated an independent Northern Ireland. If you could do it in a non-sectarian manner you might even get some Republican support.

My name is URL · 17-07-2013 05:30PM

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy

You've still to grasp the meaning of republicanism, then.

Madam · 17-07-2013 05:34PM

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

You really think Unionist politicians would share power in Dublin(I'd imagine thats where the Parliament would be)? Why would Ireland want to go backwards, sure with every other country on the mainland wanting their independence it sounds a bit daft - no?

Maybe the UK(if there is such a thing at the end of next year), could join a pan Celtic state instead:rolleyes:

CrabRevolution · 17-07-2013 05:39PM

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

Could you explain the part where Republicans would be satisfied by doing the thing they utterly abhor more than any other thing in existance?

How could a republican possibly be happy being governed by the British crown?

Duckworth_Luas · 17-07-2013 05:40PM

OP obviously hasn't being paying attention to the news lately.

Rioting in the streets, threats of violence, abusive messages on Twitter etc

And that was just because they dropped Brian O'Driscoll! :eek:

Galwayguy35 · 17-07-2013 05:40PM

Madam wrote: »

You really think Unionist politicians would share power in Dublin(I'd imagine thats where the Parliament would be)? Why would Ireland want to go backwards, sure with every other country on the mainland wanting their independence it sounds a bit daft - no?

Maybe the UK(if there is such a thing at the end of next year), could join a pan Celtic state instead:rolleyes:

Where is Britain the mainland for?

Madam · 17-07-2013 05:44PM

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Where is Britain the mainland for?

Northern Ireland;)

Forging a new Union with the UK

Should we come to a new political arrangement with the UK? 58 votes

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