Forging a new Union with the UK

padd b1975 · 17-07-2013 05:46PM

Would joining the Commonwealth be such a bad thing especially if the referendum in the UK to leave the EU is carried?

Doubt if it would put us in a worse position as a nation than we already are.

SoulandForm · 17-07-2013 05:49PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Would joining the Commonwealth be such a bad thing especially if the referendum in the UK to leave the EU is carried?

Doubt if it would put us in a worse position as a nation than we already are.

Yes it would.

The UK owes Ireland vast amounts of reparations.

gallag · 17-07-2013 05:51PM

SoulandForm wrote: »

The UK owes Ireland vast amounts of reparations.

Why?

imitation · 17-07-2013 05:53PM

Daft idea, the UK rich-poor gap increases every day as manufacturing jobs have all but left. Just take a spin around middle england filled with abandon factorys and shabby estates all over. Resource rich scotland is voting on independance.

As much as a cock up as we did on our economy with property, we have a lot of other things right like multi nationals, single currency and foreign investment. All I could see is london canabilsing this with zero interest in picking up the tab or trying to develop a low population density country.

SoulandForm · 17-07-2013 05:54PM

gallag wrote: »

Why?

The de-forestation of Ireland would be a good place to start.

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/103876

gallag · 17-07-2013 05:56PM

imitation wrote: »

Daft idea, the UK rich-poor gap increases every day as manufacturing jobs have all but left. Just take a spin around middle england filled with abandon factorys and shabby estates all over. Resource rich scotland is voting on independance.

As much as a cock up as we did on our economy with property, we have a lot of other things right like multi nationals, single currency and foreign investment. All I could see is london canabilsing this with zero interest in picking up the tab or trying to develop a low population density country.

Englqnd has found massive shale gas fields, manufacturers will like this and scotland is not resource rich, north sea oil production is being reduced by10% per annum.

end of the road · 17-07-2013 05:56PM

give up an independant republic which has its own government for devolution under another country and then on top of that still be a part of the EU? no thanks, i'm irish, i was born in ireland, i want to remain irish, i don't want to be part of britain or any other country

darkdubh · 17-07-2013 05:58PM

padd b1975 wrote: »

Would joining the Commonwealth be such a bad thing especially if the referendum in the UK to leave the EU is carried?

Doubt if it would put us in a worse position as a nation than we already are.

You could say the same about us becoming the 51'st US state but why would we want to do that?

Mr_Maestro · 17-07-2013 06:03PM

gallag wrote: »

Its a good idea, it would mean peace in the north, a united Ireland back within the UK, unionists and republicans would be happy (most). We would also be able to exploit any oil resources in house without foreign companies making the largest share and the shale gas boom soon to hit the uk would mean cheep energy and more manufacturing coming back from the east. There would also be advantages with a unified corporate tax and currency, Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

Have you been sniffing paint fumes ? If you think there would be equality between these four nations you must be incredibly high or a bit naive.

The English members of parliament wouldn't give two monkeys about the people living in Dublin. They barely give a rats about the Scots and Welsh !
To be honest, the Irish members of parliament wouldn't care about people in London either.

I'm all for uniting nations and breaking down barriers but Ireland and the UK have another while before any agreement on a single union could be met.

We as two nations are very similar which is mainly due to 800 years of oppression.

harney · 17-07-2013 06:03PM

gallag wrote: »

Englqnd has found massive shale gas fields, manufacturers will like this and scotland is not resource rich, north sea oil production is being reduced by10% per annum.

The same Scotland that is having a referendum to leave the UK next year?

end of the road · 17-07-2013 06:04PM

gallag wrote: »

a united Ireland back within the UK

i want a united ireland outside the UK but thanks all the same

gallag wrote: »

unionists and republicans would be happy (most).

unionists will, real republicans won't, the plastic republicans down here will be though as they are glad to sign away our sovernty at any opportunity as it means they don't have to do anything to rule the country "ah shur the EU would rule us better then our lot" is usually the excuse

gallag wrote: »

Ireland would along with Scotland Wales and England be an equal partner and one day an irish man could be prime minister.

the middle and upper class thatcherites would never allow that to happen

end of the road · 17-07-2013 06:12PM

gallag wrote: »

Why?

because it stole our country and ran a muck in it for 800 years

Deedsie · 17-07-2013 06:23PM

I think we should just put the shoulder to the wheel and fix they mess we created or allowed to be created around us.

I am a republican in that monarchs and that are ridiculous to me. I have no major dislike for the windsors. But I certainly wouldn't recognize them as anything more than the heads of state of the UK. I'll respect that, but not the celebrity side of it.

As for the joining with the rest of the UK, I wouldn't object to reunification with the smallest country in it. Other than that no thanks.

17-07-2013 07:12PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

The "whole independence thing":rolleyes:

Sure why not. I'd welcome the Brits back into the fold any day, now that they've learned their lesson. And sure we already have a constitution in place and a President held in high enough regard internationally, so I guess the transition wouldn't have to be that difficult.

Welcome back UK, to the United Republic of Ireland and Great Britain!

As for your former royal family, I'm sure we could find suitable paying jobs for them in the diplomatic service, maybe as our ambassadors to wherever they came from in the first place. Germany for example, or Greece.

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 07:30PM

end of the road wrote: »

because it stole our country and ran a muck in it for 800 years

Chip on the shoulder there?

How are we going to get anywhere while this "your grandda shot my grandda" mindset continues to dominate?

Any other nation would ask themselves why they can't just let the past be the past...

And this "repairations" business is ridiculous

Frank Lee Midere · 17-07-2013 07:34PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Chip on the shoulder there?

How are we going to get anywhere while this "your grandda shot my grandda" mindset continues to dominate?

Any other nation would ask themselves why they can't just let the past be the past...

And this "repairations" business is ridiculous

Every nation remembers invasions. And starvations.

That said i might agree to this if the 4 parlianents of wales, Scotland, Ireland and England have equal voting rights.

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 07:42PM

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

Every nation remembers invasions. And starvations.

That said i might agree to this if the 4 parlianents of wales, Scotland, Ireland and England have equal voting rights.

I don't remember being invaded and starved - but maybe that's because I wasn't born at the time, and the people who did the invading and starving are long dead. I don't accept that current policy should be dictated by what dead men would want or political realities of decades or indeed centuries ago. We need to do what works now.

And I agree that it would need to be an equal affair.

Phill Ewinn · 17-07-2013 07:50PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I don't remember being invaded and starved - but maybe that's because I wasn't born at the time, and the people who did the invading and starving are long dead. I don't accept that current policy should be dictated by what dead men would want or political realities of decades or indeed centuries ago. We need to do what works now.

And I agree that it would need to be an equal affair.

The solution is to invade somewhere else not join the UK.

Liberia. There I said it.

Dostoevsky · 17-07-2013 07:57PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

Stupid post is stupid. Troll post is troll post.

/end.

Stojkovic · 17-07-2013 07:59PM

Fantastic idea.

Id go further, just a Union of Leinster and Greater London and fcuk the rest of them.

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 08:01PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

Stupid post is stupid. Troll post is troll post.

/end.

Honestly not a troll post - look, I'm aware that rejoining the UK is... unlikely to say the least, but it's no harm having a chat about the pro's and con's all the same.

Dostoevsky · 17-07-2013 08:05PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

it's no harm having a chat about the pro's and con's all the same.

And of course you'd get to wind up so many people with this most unoriginal of trolling topics. We can't forget that motivation behind the people who start this almost weekly thread in After Hours.

Capt'n Midnight · 17-07-2013 08:08PM

What have the British ever done for us ?

Apart from the ...

It's more likely Scotland will leave than we join.

And they have oil and gas and renewable energy. What do we have that they want ?

Foxhound38 · 17-07-2013 08:09PM

Dostoevsky wrote: »

And of course you'd get to wind up so many people with this most unoriginal of trolling topics. We can't forget that motivation behind the people who start this almost weekly thread in After Hours.

But why can't people even discuss this topic without feeling the need to get themselves wound up? Surely a logical conversation (why it would be a good idea, or why it would be a bad idea) without resorting to emotive "800 years!" historical crankology should be possible.

An Coilean · 17-07-2013 08:12PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

But why can't people even discuss this topic without feeling the need to get themselves wound up? Surely a logical conversation (why it would be a good idea, or why it would be a bad idea) without resorting to emotive "800 years!" historical crankology should be possible.

Quite simply, no.
A significant of Irelands identity as a nation was forged through the struggle to gain independance from the UK, expecting that not to come up when suggesting that we Rejoin the UK is a bit ridiculus really.

con___manx1 · 17-07-2013 08:14PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

op obviously doesn't know much about history at all. there are a lot of hero's and great leaders in our history and if we did such a thing as form a union with the uk i feel we might as well be p#ssing on there graves. it really annoys me how so many irish people know little about Irish history. im really proud of our history
just look up north they have a union with the uk and its all fine and dandy up there lol

Duckworth_Luas · 17-07-2013 08:14PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

But why can't people even discuss this topic without feeling the need to get themselves wound up? Surely a logical conversation (why it would be a good idea, or why it would be a bad idea) without resorting to emotive "800 years!" historical crankology should be possible.

It's been done to death on this forum. It might start off with people trying to have a reasoned debate but then the trolls arrived.

The people arguing "against joining" generally change from thread to thread but the trolls arguing "for" remain the same, even if under different usernames.

becost · 17-07-2013 08:14PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

This is a bit of a followup to a thread I put here regarding a federal europe a few days ago - given that most or at least a lot of people agree that we have sort of made a bags of the whole independence thing, could revisiting our relationship with the UK be something worth considering?

I know, I know - "700 years! The black and tans etc etc" - I get it. But things have moved on considerably since then I think. I don't think the UK would have any interest in marching Paras down Grafton Street. We share the same language, geographical locality, more or less the same culture, massive family and historical ties, they have a far superior political culture (misbehaving Ministers actually do get sacked there, for example) that we could learn something from.

I'd be talking about a devolved situation here - a bit like Scotland, maybe tweaked to let us keep our President etc. If it was on the table, do you think it would be a good idea to finally put the past behind us and forge ahead with a new future in step with our closest neighbours.

You have a great imagination.

A Dub in Glasgo · 17-07-2013 08:15PM

gallag wrote: »

Englqnd has found massive shale gas fields, manufacturers will like this and scotland is not resource rich, north sea oil production is being reduced by10% per annum.

Scotland is resource rich. Not Scotland's fault the UK Government has pissed all the resources over the last 40 years down the tube

Frank Lee Midere · 17-07-2013 08:19PM

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I don't remember being invaded and starved - but maybe that's because I wasn't born at the time, and the people who did the invading and starving are long dead. I don't accept that current policy should be dictated by what dead men would want or political realities of decades or indeed centuries ago. We need to do what works now.

And I agree that it would need to be an equal affair.

Very soon now the victims of the holocaust will have died out and i believe the last known WW I soldier has died. So that will clear up some time in November then, with Rememberance Sunday forgotten.

Thats not the way history works.

Forging a new Union with the UK

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