Time for Leinster to stay at Lansdowne road?

Swiwi.

P_1 wrote: »

A comparable enough situation would be to look at the likes of the Blues and Tahs in the Super 15. They regularly play games in stadia the same size as Lansdowne, do well to half fill them and generally the atmosphere is dire.

I'd rather not see that happen with Leinster to be honest

Absolutely! Seeing the Crusaders play at a sold out Addington stadium is much preferable to the old Jade Stadium, which was a pretty soulless beast. The new stadium will be built right in town, and follow Dunedin's lead with being covered etc. Should be fab.

stpaddy99

P_1 wrote: »

A comparable enough situation would be to look at the likes of the Blues and Tahs in the Super 15. They regularly play games in stadia the same size as Lansdowne, do well to half fill them and generally the atmosphere is dire.

I'd rather not see that happen with Leinster to be honest

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

stpaddy99 wrote: »

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

But they don't. The Aviva is only profitable if they can more or less fill it everytime, which wouldn't happen in a millions years, it would be empty half the time

P_1

stpaddy99 wrote: »

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

I'd imagine that the reason they do so is because they don't have to shell out a half million a pop to rent the ground for each match

copacetic

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

Rubbish, the vast majority of Leinster fans prefer the RDS. It's a better athmosphere, it's better located, easier to get in and out of and has better facilities. No-one goes to a game because it's in a bigger stadium if they wouldn't in a smaller one. In fact Leinster have to spend weeks promoting even the big games in Aviva just to get the numbers up.

Apart from that it costs a fortune to rent the aviva, it's not available for a lot of the games, and we have to use RDS.

So, thread is mind boggingly ill thought out. Possibly even a piss take?

irishbucsfan

stpaddy99 wrote: »

and they take in way more money which pays the bills and wages and the crowds get a chance to grow year on year

They don't take more money

swiftman

copacetic wrote: »

Apart from that it costs a fortune to rent the aviva, it's not available for a lot of the games, and we have to use RDS.

So, thread is mind boggingly ill thought out. Possibly even a piss take?

between this thread and the one about gavin henson and a poster saying its ok to break a glass over someones head, there is more realistic thread going on in after hours

overshoot

copacetic wrote: »

Rubbish, the vast majority of Leinster fans prefer the RDS. It's a better athmosphere, it's better located, easier to get in and out of and has better facilities. No-one goes to a game because it's in a bigger stadium if they wouldn't in a smaller one. In fact Leinster have to spend weeks promoting even the big games in Aviva just to get the numbers up.

Apart from that it costs a fortune to rent the aviva, it's not available for a lot of the games, and we have to use RDS.

So, thread is mind boggingly ill thought out. Possibly even a piss take?

so given that the above was the only person who thanked the OP, i think that leaves him well and truly on his own with this opinion!

if the op can somehow provide a way of actually getting actual bums on seats for the likes of zebre or how leinster could afford an extra 500k per home match i will bow.... but we have been waiting a long time!

have to say it, definitely a thread i wish i hadnt clicked on

nc6000

Every game at the RDS is a sell-out? No it's not, not by a long way.

phog

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively

OK, give me the facts?

How much us the rent for the RDS?
What does Leinster make from ticket sales?
How much is the rent for the Aviva
What has Leinster made from their games there so far?
Would the IRFU allow Leinster use the Aviva Stadium for all their home games?

thomond2006

stpaddy99 wrote: »

as Ive said many times, more fans would turn up at a world class venue like Lansdowne, the quality of the venue compared to rds would net thousands more as has already been proved. this is an experiemtn worth taking as the upside outweighs the downside massively. its only the cynical views of people who want to keep leinster small that prevent this experiement happening. this narrow minded view is sad and is part reason why rugby hasn't grown to a world sport to challenge football

So basically people who disagree with your suggestion that isn't backed up with any facts are cynical and narrow minded. Great argument.

The RDS seems to be universally praised as a rugby venue, any move would have to be very advantageous as I imagine many Leinster fans would be against moving from a full small stadium to a half empty big stadium.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

thomond2006 wrote: »

So basically people who disagree with your suggestion that isn't backed up with any facts are cynical and narrow minded. Great argument.

The RDS seems to be universally praised as a rugby venue, any move would have to be very advantageous as I imagine many Leinster fans would be against moving from a full small stadium to a half empty big stadium.

Or biased! don't forget biased !

[Jackass]

If the sport keeps growing the way it has, I'd say the idea might be a runner in 15 / 20 years, but for now, absolutely no way. Some Pro12 games get a generous attendance figure of 15,000 - imagine that in a 52,000 stadium...and good luck creating an atmosphere with those numbers too - it's hard enough to get the atmosphere going in Lansdowne Road when it's a full house!

I also think you're overstating the significance of the venue in boosting attendance. Whilst it definitely would have buzz factor at first, that may last a season or two, that would ware thin after a while and the realistic fact is that there just aren't 52,000 people or even 30,000 people around the province who would turn up every week.

Look at Thomond Park in the season just gone - when they were flying high in Europe and when the stadium first opened you saw a full house most of the time, even for league games. Now they're lucky if they can get the place half full in the league. Terraces look entirely bare and "Munster" writing in the stands is often still visible. There's nothing to say the same couldn't happen Leinster after the novelty of Lansdowne wore off and if performances fell off also - Leinster would be in a worse position of potentially not able to fill a quarter of the stadium, let alone half.

CIARAN_BOYLE

stpaddy99 wrote: »

when is this expansion to 22000 meant to be happening....as it stands theyre losing 8000 to 10000 ticket sales per match by not playing at Lansdowne road.....even if they don't move, they should play more matches there and yes leinster do get close to or sell out nearly every home match

When the RDS finds a naming rights sponsor. They have explansion plans but no cash and no appetite to borrow.

Dravokivich

How often do you go to those matches OP? A lot of RDS matches from Nov - April tend to be nowhere near sell outs. A lot of the attendance figures aren't exactly accurate for that period as they still count season ticket holders that don't show up.

Eponymous

I must say, the idea of going to regular games at Lansdowne Road fills me with dread. Imagine playing at home to Zebre on a cold and wet Sunday afternoon in January!

The atmosphere is dire, the intensity of the crowd at the RDS gets diluted there between the sheer size of the venue and the number of day-trippers who seem more intent on tweeting, facebooking (if that's a valid verb) and moaning about the actual fans who are trying to get the support going.

Honestly, I hate going to Leinster games in Lansdowne Road. I still believe we'd have beaten ASM if we'd played in RDS, but instead we were outgunned by their travelling support who found tickets very easy to get. When you consider the only other really vocal fans we met last season were those from Exeter and it was relatively easy to drown them out because their numbers were kept small at the RDS.

.ak

Eponymous wrote: »

I must say, the idea of going to regular games at Lansdowne Road fills me with dread. Imagine playing at home to Zebre on a cold and wet Sunday afternoon in January!

The atmosphere is dire, the intensity of the crowd at the RDS gets diluted there between the sheer size of the venue and the number of day-trippers who seem more intent on tweeting, facebooking (if that's a valid verb) and moaning about the actual fans who are trying to get the support going.

Honestly, I hate going to Leinster games in Lansdowne Road. I still believe we'd have beaten ASM if we'd played in RDS, but instead we were outgunned by their travelling support who found tickets very easy to get. When you consider the only other really vocal fans we met last season were those from Exeter and it was relatively easy to drown them out because their numbers were kept small at the RDS.

Just to note, there actually wasn't that many ASM fans in LR. They just made themselves heard, and the Leinster support couldn't get going because for every Leinster fan there was about 20 people there for the scoops.

Podge_irl

Leinster didn't lose to Clermont because of the support. Clermont were the better team in nearly every facet.

jamiedav2011

Leinster can create a great atmosphere in Lansdowne. The Toulouse and Leicester games and the first Clermont game there good examples (even though it was literally Baltic).

However, it does definitely attract the bandwagon, the lads home for Christmas going for a few scoops, and the people who attend the RDS weekly are not heard. The Clermont game this year was dire.

On the other hand, that's exactly what they're trying to attract, and I'd imagine these games are a huge money spinner, both in terms of actual on the night revenue, and the amount of people turned onto the game after a good night out.

Btw, the atmosphere in the RDS can be awful too at times, just as it can be thunderous (that Clermont QF is still one of my fave Leinster games to have attended)

thetl

Most matches in the Rds aren't sell outs you only have to hear the laughs from supporters when the announcer try's to tell everybody that tonight's attendance / ticket sales are 165000 when clearly there would be nowhere near that . There would be virtually no atmosphere with 14000 people rattling around the aviva stadium and why would anybody bother buying a season ticket when you would be guaranteed a ticket for any game

Eponymous

.ak wrote: »

Just to note, there actually wasn't that many ASM fans in LR. They just made themselves heard, and the Leinster support couldn't get going because for every Leinster fan there was about 20 people there for the scoops.

And that's why I said outgunned and not outnumbered. In the RDS they'd be in small pockets around the ground and surrounded by large quantities of Leinster fans willing and able to match them in the shouting stakes (if not in the quality of chant stakes...).

Nothing worse than trying to get chants going when a couple of alikadoos sat behind tell you to shut up and just watch the game.

stephen_n

stpaddy99 wrote: »

at the moment they sell out the RDS nearly every match
when they play at Lansdown they always get big crowds, the derby is a sell out 50,000 plus Heineken they always top 30,000 plus

so why not stay at Lansdowne?

as it is theyre one of the best supported teams in Europe
but still behind Toulouse and Leicester ....because the ground is smaller, their average gate is probably 17000 at rds

if they stayed at lansdown over a whole season what would that average be over a whole season?

Id guess well over 25,000?

your thoughts?

If you actually go to most of the Rabo games you'd see why. The official attendances include all season tickets even though half those seats are empty, for a lot of the matches, moving that into the Aviva would be financial suicide and kill the atmosphere of a lot of games.

molloyjh

Just for the record the only "sell-outs" last season were Exeter, Connacht, Ulster (regular season), Biarritz, Stade and Ulster (Rabo Final). That's 6 games out of 16 games in the RDS (38%). If you look purely at regular season games and not SFs and Finals it was 3 out of 12 (25%). And that's based on the official figures which I'm pretty sure are a little on the generous side.

So ignoring all the other points like the contract with the RDS, the cost of using the Aviva, the fact that the RDS is a far better venue to attend games etc it still makes no sense to go to the Aviva I'm afraid. Apparently the RDS had an average attendance of 17,000 last season. Again I reckon that's generous. Even if it were true could you imagine what the Aviva would be like with 17,000 people in it? Would that even fill the bottom tier?

vkid

molloyjh wrote: »

the fact that the RDS is a far better venue to attend games

Not disagreeing with you at all, but this is just mental. After all the money spent on the Aviva, people don't seem to like it for games. I've only been twice and wouldn't be in a rush back for various reasons. Its just mad that people enjoy the RDS more than the Aviva when you look at the two facilities. RDS ain't no great shakes either as a venue but the Aviva cost a fortune..

Mad stuff imo.

.ak

RDS is a better venue because of the lay out AROUND the stadium. The actual build of the stadium is horrible, frankenstien kinda stuff. But it's the picket fences, hedges, grass patches and old turn of the century buildings around it that make it a very atmospheric stadium. On a sunny day you can't beat it.

Having said that, I'm actually a big fan of the Aviva, when the atmosphere is good there it's a proper cauldron. Unfortunately recent crowds haven't had much to shout about.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

RDS is a better venue because of the lay out AROUND the stadium. The actual build of the stadium is horrible, frankenstien kinda stuff. But it's the picket fences, hedges, grass patches and old turn of the century buildings around it that make it a very atmospheric stadium. On a sunny day you can't beat it.

Having said that, I'm actually a big fan of the Aviva, when the atmosphere is good there it's a proper cauldron. Unfortunately recent crowds haven't had much to shout about.

The whole area around the stadium is a huge plus, and a lot of modern stadia are all the poorer for not having something like that. In places like the Aviva and Thomond you're either in or you're out. If you're in then you either take your place in the stand or hang around in a concrete hallway. The RDS is great because when you're in it feels like a different venue altogether before you take your place in the stand. It honestly can't be beat on a sunny day with the green areas and the wide open spaces etc. Yes it has it's issues structurally and with the facilities at times, but the overall buzz about the place beats most other venues hands down.

Beyond that though the proximity to the action when you're on the terrace is fantastic. It's not as close as Donnybrook, but you feel a hell of a lot closer to the action in the RDS than in most seats in the Aviva. And with less casual fans the atmosphere tends to be (although isn't always) far superior. If we have to pay for that with slightly dodgy toilets (if you think the toilets in the RDS are bad you should see some French and Italian stadia!) and a lack of modern architechture then we're doing pretty well.

irishbucsfan

I love the RDS. Hope we stay there. If we could expand it and improve certain stands it'd be perfect

Podge_irl

On a sunny day I used to happily go to the RDS an hour or more early and just sit in the green areas with some beers. Its also a great area for kids to play in. Its a truly fantastic set up in that regard. If they upgrade the actual stands and increase the capacity a smidgeon it would be ideal.

vienne86

I seem to be voting with the majority - I love the RDS. We usually meet up at the bars/coffee stands at the back of the West Stand, and the atmosphere is great. When we go to the Aviva, we often just go straight to the seats - granted the stands and pitch are nice, I hate the concrete bars/socialising area in teh Aviva. And somehow parking seems to be easier at the RDS.

melekalikimaka

cant byob in aviva - aviva fail