Why are people still voting Fianna Fail?

For Forks Sake

Jessie Microscopic Kicker wrote: »

Sorry I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but are you joking or being serious?

On the Last Word yesterday evening. I'm sure they have a listen back facility if you want to behold the stupidity.

nuac

I see that a Labour County Councillor has defected to FF.

Is this first? An indication of where Labour refugees will go?

And then there is Nessa on the loose today also.

Interesting times.

FF seem to be doing OK for a 2011 beaten docket

Sierra Oscar

nuac wrote: »

I see that a Labour County Councillor has defected to FF.

Is this first? An indication of where Labour refugees will go?

And then there is Nessa on the loose today also.

Interesting times.

FF seem to be doing OK for a 2011 beaten docket

Micheál Martin welcomes Labour councillor’s defection to Fianna Fáil

This follows on from Cllr Brian Meaney defecting to Fianna Fáil last April from the Green party. I suspect that there may be more such announcements in the future, and it might not only be limited to councillor's.

'Isolated' Green councillor jumps ship to FF

I can tell you that it is fairly representative of what is happening on the ground in terms of new members joining up - many who are defecting from parties such as Labour.

Leftist

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.
Seamus from the parish, aka the local FF rep just has to dish out a platter of sangwiches down the pub and wave the county colours and he's set for another few years embarrassing the country's integrity in the dail.

the_syco

People sometimes vote to keep people in politics, and sometimes to keep other people out. With FF, I'm thinking it's the latter this time around.

Sand wrote: »

What I believe is happening is that Fine Gael and Labour are suffering from failure to deliver. Labour overpromised to a laughable extent, and are led by a man who has a complicated relationship with honesty.

Labour doesn't do well in charge, as it's hard to organise strikes and protests against yourself. Pretty much every single FG policy that make me vote FG has been blocked by Labour.

Someone talked about a FF & SF government; can't see FF being that desperate.

invpat

the_syco wrote: »

People sometimes vote to keep people in politics, and sometimes to keep other people out. With FF, I'm thinking it's the latter this time around.


Labour doesn't do well in charge, as it's hard to organise strikes and protests against yourself. Pretty much every single FG policy that make me vote FG has been blocked by Labour.

Someone talked about a FF & SF government; can't see FF being that desperate.

FF would go into coalition with the devil himself if it got them a majority in the Dail.In the next two years and the closer you get to next election there will be alot more overboard in Labour, then we will see all sort of cosying up to SF and its then we will see the through colour of our friends in SF.Willing to bet they will be just like the rest and jump into the "Mercs and the perks" like the rest of the despicable phukers.If you are young enough get out as soon as you can.Nothing will ever change in this kip of a country.

Mr.Micro

invpat wrote: »

FF would go into coalition with the devil himself if it got them a majority in the Dail.In the next two years and the closer you get to next election there will be alot more overboard in Labour, then we will see all sort of cosying up to SF and its then we will see the through colour of our friends in SF.Willing to bet they will be just like the rest and jump into the "Mercs and the perks" like the rest of the despicable phukers.If you are young enough get out as soon as you can.Nothing will ever change in this kip of a country.

Indeed, FF would go with whoever. SF would have to factor in the possible toxic effect of association with FFm if things went badly wrong, which is bound to happen with FF, which then could wipe out its party like the Greens and most probably Labour in the current Government?

worded

Leftist wrote: »

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.
Seamus from the parish, aka the local FF rep just has to dish out a platter of sangwiches down the pub and wave the county colours and he's set for another few years embarrassing the country's integrity in the dail.

If they are hang sanguishes who can blame them ?

OldNotWIse

Leftist wrote: »

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.
Seamus from the parish, aka the local FF rep just has to dish out a platter of sangwiches down the pub and wave the county colours and he's set for another few years embarrassing the country's integrity in the dail.

...and cant get their head around why we dont put "going" in front of every verb.

"Are ye going driving?"

"Are ye going eating?"

"Are ye going eating those hang sangwiches?"

Good loser

Leftist wrote: »

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.
Seamus from the parish, aka the local FF rep just has to dish out a platter of sangwiches down the pub and wave the county colours and he's set for another few years embarrassing the country's integrity in the dail.

But why then did they not vote FF the last time?

It's much simpler than you make out. Approx 60% of the Irish voters are conservatively inclined - probably because of the widespread ownership of property - and they will oscillate from FF to FG, depending on the competency (perceived) of one over the other.

The socialists/independents fight over the rest.

Nidge_Weasel

Because some of us have sense

RossieMan

is there a good party to vote for?

i don't see one.

jmayo

Leftist wrote: »

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.

Listening to you and your fellow thinkers one would think that Dublin only elect truly upstanding forward thinking altruistic politicans.

The I just took a look at the list of some of the politicans elected by the greater Dublin urban area and lo and behold we find cj haughey, ray burke, bertie ahern, liam lawlor, ivor callely and a host of other questionable councillors. Most of those got elected in the heart of the city.
That list has done more to corrupt Irish politics than a thousand jackie healy raes or mattie mcgrath could achieve in a lifetime.
(and before anyone pipes up I am not forgetting the flynns, lowrys, ellis, etc).

So please less of this sh**e that all the ills of Irish politics stops/starts once one crosses the Kildare, Louth, Meath or Wicklow border.

You are right that some in the country have an "us and them" mentality and it is often about the area they are from and elsewhere (which is often indeed Dublin), but a far more worrying mentality is that it is an "us versus the system".
Too many people, no matter where they are from, have a mentality that it is ok to get one over the state and see the state as some entity that they are not part of and don't benefit from.

v638sg7k1a92bx

jmayo wrote: »

Listening to you and your fellow thinkers one would think that Dublin only elect truly upstanding forward thinking altruistic politicans.

The I just took a look at the list of some of the politicans elected by the greater Dublin urban area and lo and behold we find cj haughey, ray burke, bertie ahern, liam lawlor, ivor callely and a host of other questionable councillors. Most of those got elected in the heart of the city.
That list has done more to corrupt Irish politics than a thousand jackie healy raes or mattie mcgrath could achieve in a lifetime.
(and before anyone pipes up I am not forgetting the flynns, lowrys, ellis, etc).

So please less of this sh**e that all the ills of Irish politics stops/starts once one crosses the Kildare, Louth, Meath or Wicklow border.

You are right that some in the country have an "us and them" mentality and it is often about the area they are from and elsewhere (which is often indeed Dublin), but a far more worrying mentality is that it is an "us versus the system".
Too many people, no matter where they are from, have a mentality that it is ok to get one over the state and see the state as some entity that they are not part of and don't benefit from.

Whats interesting is that all of the above are FF politicians.

nuac

Leftist wrote: »

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.
Seamus from the parish, aka the local FF rep just has to dish out a platter of sangwiches down the pub and wave the county colours and he's set for another few years embarrassing the country's integrity in the dail.

So "politically primitive" means

1. Not voting for the Left

2. Disagreeing with all development and investment going into Dublin?

Stabshauptmann

Jessie Microscopic Kicker wrote: »

Whats interesting is that all of the above are FF politicians.

Michael Lowry is an Irish politician. He is a Teachta Dála for the Tipperary North constituency since 1987. Lowry is a former Chairman of the Fine Gael political party and was Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications between 1994 and 1996

Colonel Sanders

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Michael Lowry is an Irish politician. He is a Teachta Dála for the Tipperary North constituency since 1987. Lowry is a former Chairman of the Fine Gael political party and was Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications between 1994 and 1996

I'm no FG fan but at least they threw him out of the party. Look at the motley crew listed above, were any of them thrown out of FF?

Then of course there's the Flynns.....

nuac

Leftist wrote: »

because the irish public are politically primitive, easily swayed, staunchly conservative, parochial and reactive. Outside of Dublin the majority just care about their own county. They think Dublin is taking everything from them and can't grasp the concept of a centralised capital.
Seamus from the parish, aka the local FF rep just has to dish out a platter of sangwiches down the pub and wave the county colours and he's set for another few years embarrassing the country's integrity in the dail.

1. The concept of a centralised capital has been carried too far in Ireland. The development of Dublin has been lopsided and unbalanced in comparison to the rest of the country.

2. To quote Tipp O'Neill all politics are local.

(1) The infamous Gregory deal was one of the first cases of an independent jumping the porkbarrell queue. Our Dublin centric commentators rarely mention it, because it was for a Dublin constituency

(2) Any threat to Aer Lingus or Dublin Airport had Dublin TDs in panic mode

(3) Recall the politicking over the Childrens' Hospital
l

3. You mention FF reps waving the county colours.

You do realise that both main parties use the GAA as electoral springboards?
E.g in Mayo Enda Kennys father was a member of 1936 All Ireland All Ireland Winning team. That launched his political career, and the seat passed to Enda
More recently John O'Mahoney was suddenly appointed Manager of the Mayo team ( the incumbent manager being fired to make room ) and went on to win a seat in Mayo with strong GAA support

bgrizzley

Colonel Sanders wrote: »

I'm no FG fan but at least they threw him out of the party. Look at the motley crew listed above, were any of them thrown out of FF?

Then of course there's the Flynns.....

All for show though?

from 2004
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/fine-gael-door-may-still-be-open-to-lowry-27438796.html

and more recently
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/politics/2010/07/13/enda-kenny-jokes-about-michael-lowry-rejoining-fine-gael/

Seems to me like he is still well in there...

Frank Lee Midere

jmayo wrote: »

Listening to you and your fellow thinkers one would think that Dublin only elect truly upstanding forward thinking altruistic politicans.

The I just took a look at the list of some of the politicans elected by the greater Dublin urban area and lo and behold we find cj haughey, ray burke, bertie ahern, liam lawlor, ivor callely and a host of other questionable councillors. Most of those got elected in the heart of the city.
That list has done more to corrupt Irish politics than a thousand jackie healy raes or mattie mcgrath could achieve in a lifetime.
(and before anyone pipes up I am not forgetting the flynns, lowrys, ellis, etc).

So please less of this sh**e that all the ills of Irish politics stops/starts once one crosses the Kildare, Louth, Meath or Wicklow border.

You are right that some in the country have an "us and them" mentality and it is often about the area they are from and elsewhere (which is often indeed Dublin), but a far more worrying mentality is that it is an "us versus the system".
Too many people, no matter where they are from, have a mentality that it is ok to get one over the state and see the state as some entity that they are not part of and don't benefit from.

The vast majority of corruption is Dublin based.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The vast majority of corruption is Dublin based.

Where it's not tolerated and therefore exposed.

In addition, the posters who make the argument that the development of Dublin has been to the detriment to the rest of the country. Is that not the exact reason not to re-elect the same politicians who have been running on the basis that their sticking up for their community and fighting the big boys in Dublin, when many of these places remain undeveloped with poor services and yet they still elect the same people on the basis that they are fighting their corner. Take a look around and ask yourself how much your community has developed in recent times and then why are we still re-electing the same people?

v638sg7k1a92bx

bgrizzley wrote: »

All for show though?

from 2004
http://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/fine-gael-door-may-still-be-open-to-lowry-27438796.html

and more recently
http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/politics/2010/07/13/enda-kenny-jokes-about-michael-lowry-rejoining-fine-gael/

Seems to me like he is still well in there...

What was it in either of those two articles that lead you to believe Lowry is still a member of FF???

jmayo

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Michael Lowry is an Irish politician. He is a Teachta Dála for the Tipperary North constituency since 1987. Lowry is a former Chairman of the Fine Gael political party and was Minister for Transport, Energy and Communications between 1994 and 1996

Except you forgot to mention that he did a hidden deal with fianna fail to help them stay in government.

nuac wrote: »

...
3. You mention FF reps waving the county colours.

You do realise that both main parties use the GAA as electoral springboards?
E.g in Mayo Enda Kennys father was a member of 1936 All Ireland All Ireland Winning team. That launched his political career, and the seat passed to Enda
More recently John O'Mahoney was suddenly appointed Manager of the Mayo team ( the incumbent manager being fired to make room ) and went on to win a seat in Mayo with strong GAA support

O'Mahony got the job because he had a record of winning All Irelands with Galway and a Connacht title with a very unfancied Leitrim.
A lot of people wanted him to be manager so it wasn't that sudden or unexpected.
He didn't get the managers job because he was political, he got it because he was a successful manager.
And yes he subsequently did use his GAA profile to get elected.

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

The vast majority of corruption is Dublin based.

Jessie Microscopic Kicker wrote: »

Where it's not tolerated and therefore exposed.
...

Ehh that is frankly bulls***.

There is evidence the planning corruption in Dublin have been going back decades.
In fact lots of people believe haughey was at it in the 60s.
He had to have bought kinsealy with money from somewhere.
Burke was at it in the 70s.
In fact rather than it being not tolerated and therefore exposed, a journalist was driven out of his job and this country for daring to expose burke in the 70s.

It was only truly exposed thanks to tribunal that really stumpbled upon it when a disgruntled retiree took up an offer to come forward and spilled the beans on his former employers.

So please less of the patting yourself on the back for Dublin's intolerance to corruption.
Half of the fooking city is built due to corruption and it's after affects are felt for generations.
And while you are at it take a look at the Dublin Docklands for some of the later installments.

v638sg7k1a92bx

jmayo wrote: »

Except you forgot to mention that he did a hidden deal with fianna fail to help them stay in government.



O'Mahony got the job because he had a record of winning All Irelands with Galway and a Connacht title with a very unfancied Leitrim.
A lot of people wanted him to be manager so it wasn't that sudden or unexpected.
He didn't get the managers job because he was political, he got it because he was a successful manager.
And yes he subsequently did use his GAA profile to get elected.





Ehh that is frankly bulls***.

There is evidence the planning corruption in Dublin have been going back decades.
In fact lots of people believe haughey was at it in the 60s.
He had to have bought kinsealy with money from somewhere.
Burke was at it in the 70s.
In fact rather than it being not tolerated and therefore exposed, a journalist was driven out of his job and this country for daring to expose burke in the 70s.

It was only truly exposed thanks to tribunal that really stumpbled upon it when a disgruntled retiree took up an offer to come forward and spilled the beans on his former employers.

So please less of the patting yourself on the back for Dublin's intolerance to corruption.
Half of the fooking city is built due to corruption and it's after affects are felt for generations.
And while you are at it take a look at the Dublin Docklands for some of the later installments.

You obviously didn't pick up on the sarcasm.

bgrizzley

Jessie Microscopic Kicker wrote: »

What was it in either of those two articles that lead you to believe Lowry is still a member of FF???

Ff?
If you meant fg, I don't believe I said he is still a member. I said he was well in there. (although it looks as if enda would be happy to have him back)