Water Meter Charges

shane0007

Posted by Kilkenny CC for domestic use 2013.

We need 10 litres per person per day drinking water.
We need 50 litres per person per day for hygienic washing, clothes washing, etc.
We use 50 litres per person per day for non-essentials, such as washing cars, gardening, etc.

This is a total of 110 litres per day per person.
Therefore average family of 4
= 110 x 4 = 440 litres per day
= 440 x 365 = 160,600 litres per annum
= 160.6 m3

KK CC is giving a domestic allowance of 182m3 water in & 182m3 water out, i.e. waste water to be treated.
If you go over your allowance you will have a hefty bill.
Either way, depending on the size of the supply, there is an annual rental charge on the meter.
Remember an average power shower does 15 litres per minute.

paddy147

So its a case of bend over and take it up the "German" Wazooooo...:pac::rolleyes:



Phil Hogan rekons that a 50 euro water meter needs to cost 800 euro......40 euro a year spread over 20 years.

It really is a ripp off republic.



Id say underground and overground rainwater harvesting systems might start to become more common in this country.

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

Id say underground and overground rainwater harvesting systems might start to become more common in this country.

Not economically viable in a domestic situation. Really only good for flushing toilets as treating it costs.
Low volume flushing cisterns more likely the way for the masses.
Simple rain butts for gardening & possibly washing cars.
Conservation will be the norm but I am sure the market will be flooded by cheap gimmicks trying to solve world peace!
Remember all those snow shovels & boot spikes that they were selling during the summer following the cold spells a couple of years ago.... They were even selling bags of salt to make sure you stock up just in case!

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

Not economically viable in a domestic situation. Really only good for flushing toilets as treating it costs.
Low volume flushing cisterns more likely the way for the masses.
Simple rain butts for gardening & possibly washing cars.
Conservation will be the norm but I am sure the market will be flooded by cheap gimmicks trying to solve world peace!
Remember all those snow shovels & boot spikes that they were selling during the summer following the cold spells a couple of years ago.... They were even selling bags of salt to make sure you stock up just in case!

Plenty still available in Woodies and also in manys a builders providers.:)


I feel an artic snow storm is going to hit us tomorrow...:pac::pac::D


It would be about 130-140 euro a year for UV and filtration treatment of rainwater to use it for showering purposes.


Stick a 5000-6000 litre tank underground and it might be worth it in the end.

These water meter bills will only go one way.....UP.

paddy147

I can just see it in my mind now.....in years to come...........







In other news....The CER has approved another 12% increase in water charges today,even though an increase of 8% was only asked for.


This 12% increase comes ontop of the previous 10% increase that was approved only 6 months ago.


Irish Water (aka Bord Gais) has said its delighted with the big increase and says it will make record profits due to this increase.

shane0007

A certain company offered to supply & install every meter FOC so they would get a percentage of the income.
Luckily they were turned down, this way some jobs can be created from it.
3 companies have the contract issued to them this week.

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

A certain company offered to supply & install every meter FOC so they would get a percentage of the income.
Luckily they were turned down, this way some jobs can be created from it.
3 companies have the contract issued to them this week.

Isnt there a dispute about this though?

It was raised in the Dail by an opposition TD about county council personal and other plumbers actually losing their jobs due to the way the water meters and contracts are being rolled out and awarded.

shane0007

No. Contracts were awarded last week & received by winning contractors this week.
Discussions on-going about a panel of certified installers so the winning contractors can pull from the panel.
Works will be commencing very shortly, although many meters are already installed where older stop cocks were found leaking, CC's installed new housing & meters.
Over 1,000,000 to be installed so it should generate some much needed jobs.

Trhiggy83

shane0007 wrote: »

No. Contracts were awarded last week & received by winning contractors this week.
Discussions on-going about a panel of certified installers so the winning contractors can pull from the panel.
Works will be commencing very shortly, although many meters are already installed where older stop cocks were found leaking, CC's installed new housing & meters.
Over 1,000,000 to be installed so it should generate some much needed jobs.

Should have just blanket charged everyone and avoided the mess thats gonna be caused by installing these meters.

shane0007

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Should have just blanket charged everyone and avoided the mess thats gonna be caused by installing these meters.

Why?
How will that promote conservation? It would actually increase usage as people would think I'm going to get my money's worth here.
It's just like saying electricity & gas should be a one off annual payment, same for everybody. Nobody would switch off the heating or switch off a light!
Also why should I pay for the treatment of delivered water to somebody else's house that uses excessive water where I can be conservative?
There are many many advantages of water meters but only one disadvantage: we have to pay for it, but we pay for it already indirectly in our taxes already! Metering is fairer....

paddy147

Gonna dig me a hole.


Gonna stick a tank in it.


Gonna catch me some rain.


Gonna use it me house..







I nearly have a song made up here...:pac::D

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

No. Contracts were awarded last week & received by winning contractors this week.
Discussions on-going about a panel of certified installers so the winning contractors can pull from the panel.
Works will be commencing very shortly, although many meters are already installed where older stop cocks were found leaking, CC's installed new housing & meters.
Over 1,000,000 to be installed so it should generate some much needed jobs.

42% of water consumption is from underground leaking pipes and not from people using/wasting water.






Its all well and great about all these temporary new jobs to be created...(if it actually happens because Labour and FG never tell lies do they???:pac::rolleyes:).


But that will be of little comfort to people/householders in a few years when Bord Gais/Irish Water and the CER combined start screwing people over on water meter price increases and the CER just stand by and "wash" their hand of it.




We want an 8% increase.

Ah sure have a 12% increase and enjoy yourselves with some nice champagne and cavier.

And dont worry,we will give you another increase in 5-6 months time...we have your back on this one.






All water meters will do is make a few "fat cats" even richer and make them even more greedy.:(

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

Gonna dig me a hole.


Gonna stick a tank in it.


Gonna catch me some rain.


Gonna use it me house..







I nearly have a song made up here...:pac::D

You forgot one line "Gonna have the sh1ts for a week"

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

42% of water consumption is from underground leaking pipes and not from people using/wasting water.

Its all well and great about all these temporary new jobs to be created...(if it actually happens because Labour and FG never tell lies do they???:pac::rolleyes:).

But that will be of little comfort to people/householders in a few years when Bord Gais/Irish Water and the CER combined start screwing people over on water meter price increases and the CER just stand by and "wash" their hand of it.

We want an 8% increase.

Ah sure have a 12% increase and enjoy yourselves with some nice champagne and cavier.

And dont worry,we will give you another increase in 5-6 months time...we have your back on this one.

All water meters will do is make a few "fat cats" even richer and make them even more greedy.:(

Perhaps, but if the mains is leaking 42% metered won't be paying for it directly. If it is leaking from metered side, homeowners will fix quickly to avoid high charges.

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

You forgot one line "Gonna have the sh1ts for a week"

Gonna zap with me UV light and filters........:D

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

Gonna zap with me UV light and filters........:D

You would need to be using a hell of a lot of water to go over the allocated allowance to justify putting in a rainwater harvesting system, whether DIY or company installed.

Best to probably bend over & take it from our ginger leader!

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

You would need to be using a hell of a lot of water to go over the allocated allowance to justify putting in a rainwater harvesting system, whether DIY or company installed.

Best to probably bend over & take it from our ginger leader!

I dont know...but we all know that they are going to keep on upping the price of the water charges.

Things only go one way in this contry and thats UP.:(

shane0007

Very true. It's very hard to bring in a new tax but very easy to put it up once its in.

At the same time, I have a private well. I pay for UV filters, sediment filters, pump electricity, maintenance, salt for limescale filtration. I also pay for everybody's public supplied water through my taxes.
Is this fair?
Why am I paying twice for water & the person who pays for it through their taxes or not at all can wash cars, use water to their hearts content.
About time, they bent over for big Phil also.
To me it's about fairness & metering is fair.

Dtp79

paddy147 wrote: »

Gonna zap with me UV light and filters........:D

Gonna fcuk me Softner in the bin

Trhiggy83

shane0007 wrote: »

Why?
How will that promote conservation? It would actually increase usage as people would think I'm going to get my money's worth here.
It's just like saying electricity & gas should be a one off annual payment, same for everybody. Nobody would switch off the heating or switch off a light!
Also why should I pay for the treatment of delivered water to somebody else's house that uses excessive water where I can be conservative?
There are many many advantages of water meters but only one disadvantage: we have to pay for it, but we pay for it already indirectly in our taxes already! Metering is fairer....

I cannot see how it will increase usage considering the rate would not change regardless of your usage, it would be just viewed as another tax and a lot more straightforward than what's proposed.

I do believe we need to invest in our water infrastructure to protect the environment and so that essential upgrades of the system can take place so the proposed capital investment should be welcomed.

The problem here is that over 40 % of our water is currently lost through broken pipes and lack of maintenance. I believe Irish Water is a good way to fund the upgrading of the network but i dont believe installing water meters is the right answer.

Simple solution is to cut out the leaks and there wont be an issue with supply.

Education of water usage as a resource is important and this has started at grassroots in schools, in 10 years time current water conservation practices will be the norm as the culture will have changed regardless of whether we pay for it or not.

paddy147

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

I cannot see how it will increase usage considering the rate would not change regardless of your usage, it would be just viewed as another tax and a lot more straightforward than what's proposed.

I do believe we need to invest in our water infrastructure to protect the environment and so that essential upgrades of the system can take place so the proposed capital investment should be welcomed.

The problem here is that over 40 % of our water is currently lost through broken pipes and lack of maintenance. I believe Irish Water is a good way to fund the upgrading of the network but i dont believe installing water meters is the right answer.

Simple solution is to cut out the leaks and there wont be an issue with supply.

Education of water usage as a resource is important and this has started at grassroots in schools, in 10 years time current water conservation practices will be the norm as the culture will have changed regardless of whether we pay for it or not.

Remember that infamous speech by a certain FG Leader of......."its not your fault,you are not to blame"



Well we are being forced to pay and made to pay for it,in what ever little way "they" can think of.:(:mad:

DGOBS

I was more wondering, if a person didn't pay the bill can they legally cut off water?

Was watching a miser on tv the other night, who only flushed once a week (if the toilet needed it or not!)

Remember the saying 'daylight robbery', was when the UK government introduced a 'window' on houses
Irish government followed suit, and it quickly became known here as the 'typhoid tax' cos the Irish boarded up so many
windows that people commonly contracted typhoid

Also, I believe if they upgrade to the point where the loss is 20% or so, it's uneconomical to stem the last 20%!

paddy147

DGOBS wrote: »

I was more wondering, if a person didn't pay the bill can they legally cut off water?

Was watching a miser on tv the other night, who only flushed once a week (if the toilet needed it or not!)

Remember the saying 'daylight robbery', was when the UK government introduced a 'window' on houses
Irish government followed suit, and it quickly became known here as the 'typhoid tax' cos the Irish boarded up so many
windows that people commonly contracted typhoid

Also, I believe if they upgrade to the point where the loss is 20% or so, it's uneconomical to stem the last 20%!

County Councils state and planning law also states that land/pathways outside your property/boundary wall is not yours and is public property and the responsibility of the county council.


So if thats the case,why should anyone be made to pay for a meter that goes into the ground and pathway OUTSIDE their house boundary wall.


And also making householders pay 800 euro for a piece of metal and plastic that is worth 40-50 euro is an absolute SCAM...:eek::mad:

K.Flyer

paddy147 wrote: »

And also making householders pay 800 euro for a piece of metal and plastic that is worth 40-50 euro is an absolute SCAM...:eek::mad:

800 euro is Dublin City Council's standard charge for digging up a footpath if, for example, you want to replace your old lead mains pipe out to the stop cock. But I completely agree, if they want them in, then they should cover the cost for installation themselves.

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

And also making householders pay 800 euro for a piece of metal and plastic that is worth 40-50 euro is an absolute SCAM...:eek::mad:

Who said they are charging €800 for the water meter as that has not been agreed at government level as yet?

paddy147

shane0007 wrote: »

Who said they are charging €800 for the water meter as that has not been agreed at government level as yet?

40 euro a year over 20 years works out at 800 euro....thanks to Phil Hogan.


800 euro for something you dont even own and that is not even on your property......fecking fantastic.




http://www.thejournal.ie/no-up-front-charge-for-water-meters-reports-419969-Apr2012/


http://www.herald.ie/news/fury-as-families-face-800-bill-to-install-water-meters-28005755.html

shane0007

paddy147 wrote: »

40 euro a year over 20 years works out at 800 euro.

Where are you getting that from? Nothing has been approved, only usual waffle put to the market. If in they make it sound bad, the market gets tested, then the lesser actually comes in & people thinking it was going to be horrendous then think "oh it's as bad as we thought it was going to be" and no revolt.
Usual politicians tactics.

corkgsxr

I think a huge chunk of that 800 is the path opening licence. Very dear that one.

And ye think its only 40% loss. Iv it from several reliable sources its in and around 60% at the mo

shane0007

corkgsxr wrote: »

I think a huge chunk of that 800 is the path opening licence. Very dear that one.

And ye think its only 40% loss. Iv it from several reliable sources its in and around 60% at the mo

There is no road opening license fee for installing water meters as the works is currently for the LA's. They won't be charging themselves either directly or indirectly through the contractor for such.

Losses will vary greatly from county to county & from type of supply pipe.
Under EU law they must actively put aside some budget allocated to removing lead pipes but they do not have to publish where they are.
They are monitored by the EPA & if failures are incurred, they are put on a RAL (remedial action list). This is not where they want to be as they will have to set aside a substantial part of their budget to get off it & it's immediate. This list is in the public domain. Distribution failures is not monitored, only treatment plants.

corkgsxr

shane0007 wrote: »

There is no road opening license fee for installing water meters as the works is currently for the LA's. They won't be charging themselves either directly or indirectly through the contractor for such.

Losses will vary greatly from county to county & from type of supply pipe.
Under EU law they must actively put aside some budget allocated to removing lead pipes but they do not have to publish where they are.
They are monitored by the EPA & if failures are incurred, they are put on a RAL (remedial action list). This is not where they want to be as they will have to set aside a substantial part of their budget to get off it & it's immediate. This list is in the public domain. Distribution failures is not monitored, only treatment plants.

Countyside is better but 90% of citys are that high

shane0007

corkgsxr wrote: »

Countyside is better but 90% of citys are that high

That's a road opening license for other works, not water meter installations.
The contractor is contracted by the LA to install the meters. So what you're saying is the council charges the contractor a road opening license fee to install their meter. The contractor bills that back to the LA as an incurred cost.
Why?
Hence to road opening license fee to install meters. The LA's are not currently charging it on the meters already installed.