The future at Second Row, who is it?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

You didn't explicitly say he was better, but you agreed that Gray has been no better than Toner. See here.

You weren't the only one to make the comparison though...

Spank_Inferno wasn't sure that Gray is better than Toner. Lologram was the first to outright suggest that Toner is a better player. Ugo Monye... agreed that Toner is probably a better player. Lastly, Podge_IRL thought Toner has been in better form than the tall blonde guy hoping to get his first Lion cap on Saturday.

And there we have it folks, there are at least 5 posters on this forum who think that Devin Toner is as good as - or better than - British and Irish Lion Richie Gray.

And we probably have a lot of merit. Being a Lion is no indication of quality either (Ricki Flutey, Ugo Monye :mad:, Andy Powell...)

Those comments were a few minutes after Gray put in one of the worst shifts I've ever seen from a Lions player too so context is important. Gray is probably better alright because of his threat with ball in hand but they are very similar in other aspects

jm08

Morf wrote: »

Alun Wyn Jones is 6'5".

and how has the Lions lineout being doing (without POC)?

Tox56

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

And we probably have a lot of merit. Being a Lion is no indication of quality either (Ricki Flutey, Ugo Monye :mad:, Andy Powell...)

Those comments were a few minutes after Gray put in one of the worst shifts I've ever seen from a Lions player too so context is important. Gray is probably better alright because of his threat with ball in hand but they are very similar in other aspects

Toner was absolutely in better end of season form, and in the many times the two played opposite eachother the season before last (Glasgow were in Leinster's H Cup group in addition to the usual league games), Toner was the better player in many of those games. Most overrated player on the planet

desertcircus

Ragging on Toner: the default position for a lot of Irish rugby fans. People forget that his unbelievable height pushed him into public consciousness incredibly early; he's several years younger than Donnacha Ryan and has a CV at this point that, when compared to Ryan's at the same age, makes Ryan look embarrasingly amateurish. He's improved slowly but steadily, in the same position as his provincial captain, and has gotten heavier and meaner year on year. Don't discount him.

ormond lad

desertcircus wrote: »

Ragging on Toner: the default position for a lot of Irish rugby fans. People forget that his unbelievable height pushed him into public consciousness incredibly early; he's several years younger than Donnacha Ryan and has a CV at this point that, when compared to Ryan's at the same age, makes Ryan look embarrasingly amateurish. He's improved slowly but steadily, in the same position as his provincial captain, and has gotten heavier and meaner year on year. Don't discount him.

Not really. Toner didn't have same calibre of 2nd row ahead of him as DR has had at Munster
Toner CV really doesn't make Ryan look "embarrassingly amateurish" at all. Wouldn't discount Toner and think he'll be there or thereabouts depending on emergence of younger players

irishbucsfan

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

You didn't explicitly say he was better, but you agreed that Gray has been no better than Toner. See here.

You weren't the only one to make the comparison though...

Spank_Inferno wasn't sure that Gray is better than Toner. Lologram was the first to outright suggest that Toner is a better player. Ugo Monye... agreed that Toner is probably a better player. Lastly, Podge_IRL thought Toner has been in better form than the tall blonde guy hoping to get his first Lion cap on Saturday.

And there we have it folks, there are at least 5 posters on this forum who think that Devin Toner is as good as - or better than - British and Irish Lion Richie Gray.

On this tour. Because Gray has been brutal.

desertcircus

ormond lad wrote: »

Not really. Toner didn't have same calibre of 2nd row ahead of him as DR has had at Munster
Toner CV really doesn't make Ryan look "embarrassingly amateurish" at all. Wouldn't discount Toner and think he'll be there or thereabouts depending on emergence of younger players

There's really not that big a difference between POC, DOC and MOD on one side and Mal O'Kelly, Leo Cullen, Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn on the other. "Embarrassingly amateurish" was too far, but Toner is a hell of a lot further along than Ryan was, and the players in front of him were virtually never absent for Ireland duty.

PhatPiggins

desertcircus wrote: »

There's really not that big a difference between POC, DOC and MOD on one side and Mal O'Kelly, Leo Cullen, Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn on the other. "Embarrassingly amateurish" was too far, but Toner is a hell of a lot further along than Ryan was, and the players in front of him were virtually never absent for Ireland duty.

Fair point that Ryan was a slow burner but who we will look back on as being the better player when both have retired
will be a one word debate.

ormond lad

desertcircus wrote: »

There's really not that big a difference between POC, DOC and MOD on one side and Mal O'Kelly, Leo Cullen, Nathan Hines and Brad Thorn on the other. "Embarrassingly amateurish" was too far, but Toner is a hell of a lot further along than Ryan was, and the players in front of him were virtually never absent for Ireland duty.

And tbf Hines and Thorn were never both ahead of him. There was maybe 1 season where 3 of those you name were ahead of Toner. Mainly it was 2 you name.
DR had POC, DOC and MOD ahead of him for several seasons.

jamiedav2011

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Fair point that Ryan was a slow burner but who we will look back on as being the better player when both have retired
will be a one word debate.

There's no debate about that though, however, comparing Toner's progress to Ryan's indicates that he's not the big lump that some would have you think.

He's a good HEC level lock with plenty of time left to get a lot better. That's it.
Anything else is a bonus.

.ak

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

You didn't explicitly say he was better, but you agreed that Gray has been no better than Toner. See here.

You weren't the only one to make the comparison though...

Spank_Inferno wasn't sure that Gray is better than Toner. Lologram was the first to outright suggest that Toner is a better player. Ugo Monye... agreed that Toner is probably a better player. Lastly, Podge_IRL thought Toner has been in better form than the tall blonde guy hoping to get his first Lion cap on Saturday.

And there we have it folks, there are at least 5 posters on this forum who think that Devin Toner is as good as - or better than - British and Irish Lion Richie Gray.

Being a Lion means f-all these days.

Podge_irl

I never said I thought Toner was better than Gray. I said Toner was in better form at the end of the season. Which he was. He's still never put in a shift as good as Gray in his prime. Toner is also far too inconsistent.