This made me think about my relationship with alcohol.

username123

Another possible issue is the "dating" culture in this country.

Compared to say, the US, dating is not a well defined concept in this country. Its mostly something hidden from parents facilitated by dutch (gold) courage. If we actually had young people having supervised dates from an early age, if this was more normalised, perhaps teenagers wouldnt need to lash the drinks in for a bit of courage to approach someone.

Im sure we all remember the fear of finding a date for the debs - its really the first time society is supportive of "dating" in this country - when we are 17 or 18 - but realistically young people are hooking up much younger than that.

PingO_O

I agree yeh, young people are going out on a Friday drinking cans in a field before they've even had their first girlfriend / boyfriend it's kinda crazy when you think about it.

I can remember at 15/16 going out drinking cans on a Friday was what everyone did or wanted to do.

LittleBook

username123 wrote: »

perhaps teenagers wouldnt need to lash the drinks in for a bit of courage to approach someone

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well. It's always going to be hard to be yourself with someone you "like" but not being able to be yourself in front of the opposite sex in general is a bigger problem.

lazygal

LittleBook wrote: »

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well. It's always going to be hard to be yourself with someone you "like" but not being able to be yourself in front of the opposite sex in general is a bigger problem.

Couldn't agree more, especially if you go to primary and secondary schools that are all one gender. I think I'd have been far better developed socially had I gone to a mixed school and my husband says the same. It was college before I really 'talked' to men like normal people and I found it quite a stunting social experience going through school with all girls. I'm really conscious of this for my children, I don't want the opposite sex to be something to keep them away from. I know there's some evidence of better educational outcomes for single sex schools but for me that's cancelled out by the negative social outcomes.

username123

LittleBook wrote: »

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well. It's always going to be hard to be yourself with someone you "like" but not being able to be yourself in front of the opposite sex in general is a bigger problem.

I went to a mixed school and that has is own issues tbh. But the drinking round the back of the bike sheds before school discos was still going on. People still werent "dating" in any kind of supported manner - by that I mean they werent supported by their parents (it was usually a secret) and if the teachers caught them holding hands etc they were told to get away from each other.

Sleepy

Social isolation would be a big element of it imo. As a nation we seem to need alcohol to let go enough of our inhibitions to simply talk to one another. Add in the retarded notion that sex is "dirty" and you have many girls getting ****faced in order to satisfy their sexual desires with the mental get-out-of-jail-free card of "aragh, I was locked, I'd never do that sober" :rolleyes:

How do we deal with the nations alcohol problems? IMO, we need to find ways to encourage face-to-face interaction between young people. Single-sex schools seem to discourage normal social interaction, smart-phones and social networks act as a crutch that prevents people from learning how to interact IRL. Proper sex-ed (including demonstration of safe use of condoms etc.) and the removal of religion from our classrooms would also help in this regard. If we're not teaching our daughters that normal sexual interaction is something that only bad girls do, they'll not feel the need to get ****-faced in order to have it.

EDIT: I think you'd need to remove the "supervised" element of your support for teen-dating to get them to go along with it username123 but if we could react to the news that our sons/daughters had an interest in a boy/girl from school by slipping them an extra €20 with their pocket-money (or providing them with a chance to earn it, etc) to take their crush to the cinema / out for a burger and milkshake etc. in the full knowledge that they had the correct sex education to know not to rush into things / allow themselves to be pressured into something they weren't comfortable with and to use proper precautions with what they were comfortable doing, I think we'd see some results.

eviltwin

I'm not much of a drinker - christmas and special events only. I don't drink because I don't like it, I'd much rather have a non alcoholic drink instead. I find that most of my friends who are meant to be mature and sensible still have a hard time accepting the fact I don't drink. I don't get called boring but I know people think I'm not as much fun without a drink. I don't know if it makes them feel bad about their own drinking or if its just this Irish thing where the idea of a night out without alcohol is akin to a kind of torture or something but it makes me wonder if that is the attitude of people who are 30+ what chance do teenagers have?

username123

Sleepy wrote: »

EDIT: I think you'd need to remove the "supervised" element of your support for teen-dating to get them to go along with it username123 but if we could react to the news that our sons/daughters had an interest in a boy/girl from school by slipping them an extra €20 with their pocket-money (or providing them with a chance to earn it, etc) to take their crush to the cinema / out for a burger and milkshake etc. in the full knowledge that they had the correct sex education to know not to rush into things / allow themselves to be pressured into something they weren't comfortable with and to use proper precautions with what they were comfortable doing, I think we'd see some results.

When I say supervised Im talking about younger teens who would need supervision anyway - kids not old enough to go off on dates alone - so maybe the parents could drive them to the cinema and then go and have a coffee while the 13 or so year olds watch the movie - that type of thing.

LittleBook

username123 wrote: »

I went to a mixed school and that has is own issues tbh. But the drinking round the back of the bike sheds before school discos was still going on. People still werent "dating" in any kind of supported manner - by that I mean they werent supported by their parents (it was usually a secret) and if the teachers caught them holding hands etc they were told to get away from each other.

Oh I think there'll always be an element of what goes on "behind the bike sheds".

Funnily enough though, when I was in (an all girls) school, we actually had the supervised dating element that you mention. Every Friday there was a school dance with the boys from the corresponding secondary school supervised, of course, by the nuns and priests but there were slow sets and mixing was encouraged.

It all migh seem a bit tame (a tad "Ballroom of Romance" ) now but I can't think of anything that's replaced it, at least not in the mixed school my daughter went to.

username123

LittleBook wrote: »

Funnily enough though, when I was in (an all girls) school, we actually had the supervised dating element that you mention. Every Friday there was a school dance with the boys from the corresponding secondary school supervised, of course, by the nuns and priests but there were slow sets and mixing was encouraged.

We had school discos with slow sets but you had to have a snog quickly as youd be separated by over zealous teachers otherwise!!

I suppose the whole mixing with the opposite sex needs a bit of a cultural overhaul as well.

Alcohol seems like a kind of taboo mystery when you are young - well it was to me growing up. I was never exposed to moderate drinking at home, or encouraged to have a drink at home myself. Christmas Day was the only day of the year that a glass of wine was offered.

mariaalice

Its funny it took me till my forties to realise how much I was influenced by mother in so many ways, my father was a pioneer and wore the badge on his suit lapel all his life, although he never had anything against anyone else drinking my mother however believed respectable men ( especially if they were married ) did not drink regularly her own father my grandfather only drank on a fair day, anyway both my first and second husband do not drink, its funny but people always assume that men who don't drink have had a problem with alcohol but with both my husbands it was just a case of giving it up or have never been that interested in the first place.

Any relationship I was in lived or died depending on how much the man in question drank, I have noting against men ( or women ) drinking but I was always weary of any man that spent every weekend in the pub or who though going to a pub was a date.

Princess Peach

I could have written the first part of that article myself :pac: Up until the sleeping with randoms part

I used to drink a lot when I was about 3/4 years younger. At least one night a week, usually 2 or 3 I'd be out, and most often drank till I blacked out. I know now I was doing it to cope with my depression. Twas grand cause all my friends were the same sure, except maybe not as often as me. Got a bit fed up of it in the end mostly cause I had a reputation as the drunk mess. I'd meet people for the first time who had heard of me as a party girl! Was tough to cut back though, friends weren't much help at all.

Looking back I was pretty hard on myself for my behaviour when I drank. I would get a bit loud, tell my life story to randoms, and fall down stairs alright. But I always got home to my own bed in the end, and alone! When I hear stories of what other people get up to drunk I feel better about myself :pac: One of my old party friends very well could be the author of the article. But I still needed to cut back lots. Drinking is fun but I was taking it to excess too often.

Haven't blacked out in a few years now!

Neyite

username123 wrote: »

I think we need to target young people. Make them see how unattractive being locked out of your head is. Make it somewhat antisocial to be locked. Education at an early stage - before they start drinking at all. Get the medical community involved, question people at routine appointments on their drinking habits and comment if its over the recommended limits.

In Germany, a place with a big beer industry, its considered skanger-ish to be publicly drunk by the young people - this is people who are late teens & twenties. You can get as hammered as you like in your own home, just not in public. A few of us Irish did the pre-drinking with vodka one night and our german classmates were shocked to the point where they seriously suggested AA if that was a regular weekend for us. We just laughed it off and when they came to visit and saw the pub culture here realised that we were moderate compared to some.
But it was a wake up call to see young people our own ages being shocked at our intake.

Posy

Most of the girls I work with would be really big drinkers- a bottle of wine and a few vodkas before a night out, then in the pub several pints of bulmers followed by shots. Then off to some overpriced Temple Bar club for more shots and a few cocktails. This would be a pretty normal night out for them. The fact that this amount of alcohol doesn't even leave most of them with a major hangover anymore is actually scary. That amount of drink would kill me! :eek:

I have always been a 'lightweight' when it comes to alcohol and trying to drink as much as my peers lead to some very bad hangovers bordering on alcohol poisoning when I was younger. I used to be embarrassed that I couldn't drink as much as everyone else and made myself sick trying to.
In my early twenties I threw up in a taxi and the angry driver booted me out in the middle of nowhere- no idea how I got home. It was situations like that one that made me realise I had to drink at my own pace and not to be ashamed of how little alcohol I can consume.

username123

Yeah Neyite, a friend was in Munich last year and attended a festival that included beer and the town hall was opened to the public to visit. She said it never could have worked in Ireland. The town hall, an historic building, would have been wrecked by far too drunk Irish youth.

Its a bit of a generalisation but Ireland is so populated with skangers that Im not sure public drunkeness being viewed as skangery would be a turn off!

ash23

I enjoy alcohol. Not always responsibly. But I don't think I've ever blacked out. I made one or two dubious choices in my younger days but not in a long time now have I ever woke up thinking "oh no".

I pre-drink at the house, usually a bottle of wine. And then I might have one or two drinks when out but often I'd not even finish them as I know when I've had enough.

I don't necessarily think that getting drunk is that bad. Getting inebriated is a totally different story. If you're not in control of what you're doing and you're doing things that you wouldn't do sober, then yes, learn your limits.
But I don't really have a problem with people going out to get drunk, have a laugh, a dance, a kebab and get home safely.

There are many different levels of drunk and types of drunks and that has to be considered also.

kylith

I was a 'drink to get plastered' girl back in the day, but thankfully I grew out of it after not knowing how I got home once or twice. The idea that anything could have happened to me was a real wake-up call.

It wasn't pre-drinking amongst my friends; it was post-drinking - get drunk in the club and then back to someone's gaff at kicking out time for either drink bought earlier or carry out from the venue. Personally I'd consider that somewhat better than pre-drinking because it meant that by the time you were properly wasted you were already on a couch somewhere surrounded by friends, and because there was no impetus to drink fast because you were going out we tended to drink more at our own pace.

I was exposed to moderate drinking at home. My parents would have a few drinks most nights, but they were never seen to be drunk. Alcohol was never taboo and I was allowed a glass of wine with dinner from about 15/16, which I rarely accepted because I didn't like it.

These days I drink very little, less than once a month most of the time. I enjoy beers and drinking seldomly means that I splash out on 4 nice beers rather than 8 crap ones.

One thing that I believe is that the off licence hours are not conducive to a healthy attitude to alcohol. OH and I were out for dinner recently. We were trying to decide whether to go on to a pub or go home. We decided that we wanted to go home, but to pick up a few beers on the way. We then noticed that it was 2145, and I necked what I was drinking in order to get to the offie before it shut. If I'd had more time I would have drunk my beer more slowly and sauntered over to choose some craft beers at my leisure instead of rushing over and grabbing the first six pack I could before the shutters came down. I'm a 31 year old woman, dagnabbit, I shouldn't have to run around like a loon because I fancy having a beer at home after dinner out!

timewilltell

So many good point mentioned.

To be honest college life influenced a lot of my drinking. If you weren't pre drinking on a night it was if there was something wrong with you. If you weren't drinking at all then you definitely must be a bit odd. Looking back now I definitely subjected myself to that pressure.

I am now starting to drink less and less. I too could have been the girl in the first half of the article. I think at this stage every pub in Dublin must have a copy of my house keys! But it started to get monotonous. Go out, get hammered, wake up and piece the night together.

I think it's a bit odd that so man of us centre our nights out on how inebriated we are planning to get.

the_syco

The page ain't opening for me, so can't read it.

username123 wrote: »

Its how we view alcohol. We view it as something we drink to get drunk - that is the purpose of alcohol. In other countries they enjoy a couple of drinks. Or appreciate wine with dinner. Or have a liquer after a meal. Here we have beers first, wine with dinner, liquer afterwards, and then onto the club for copious shots and more beer.

Here, you turn 18, and get madly drunk. In many other countries, you've given a beer to drink with the family, and being able to buy beer yourself is not a "OMG, I CAN BUY ALCOHOL AND GET DRUNK" moment, but a "I can buy drink" moment.

It doesn't help that up until recently, there wasn't much else to do aside from drinking. Some will say that's a bit of a cop out, and whilst that may be true, unless there's a cinema nearby you, there's not much social activities to do that involve the opposite sex in a relaxed atmosphere.

RedSeven7 wrote: »

Do you think maybe treating alcohol like cigarettes would make a difference? If advertising wasn't allowed, because they really do sell such a false image. But then again look at all the controversy over alcoholic companies not being allowed to sponsor sporting events. Sigh.

Anyone that I know who started drinking, started drinking the cheapest alcoholic beverage possible. It's only after you start drinking does the advertisements start to affect you, if even. And by then, it's control of market share.

username123 wrote: »

I think we need to target young people. Make them see how unattractive being locked out of your head is. Make it somewhat antisocial to be locked. Education at an early stage - before they start drinking at all. Get the medical community involved, question people at routine appointments on their drinking habits and comment if its over the recommended limits.

Its quite draconian but we need to stop the advertising, stop the promotions, have better pub policing - where people are actually thrown out or refused to be served if they are already drunk.

The draconian bit will actually encourage people to drink, as it's "instant rebellion". Raising the legal drink age won't do jack; most people disregard it at the moment as it stands. Not sure how you can make it anti-social to be locked, as it's the only social event that those from the 18-25 age range participates in.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't fully agree. Lots of people in Ireland just have no concept of going out for two drinks and going home again sober. Alcohol is expensive in Ireland so I'm not surprised there is so much pre drinking, I used to do in in college 10-15 years ago as did my friends because we had so little money but never did it when I left college. Now it seems to be the norm.

So people pre drink, have a couple in the pub and then move on to the late bar/nightclub and continue to drink until they fall over.

Agreed. Before it was two cans before going out, and to get in early whilst "happy hour" is on. Now it's a case of drinking 6-10 cans before hitting the nightclub, so you have some "dutch courage" when you hit the dancefloor.

Went to a mixed school, and from a dudes pov, most of the hooking up didn't happen until alcohol was introduced at the weekend. Was in a mixed school from the early 90's.

timewilltell wrote: »

I think it's a bit odd that so man of us centre our nights out on how inebriated we are planning to get.

I think it's sad that there is little else that we all know about (before anyone jumps down my throat) that doesn't involve drinking. I know of people who have left golf clubs and other sports clubs as even they revolve around drinking.

=-=

Started ditch drinking when I was about 16, and in the pub when I was 17 (in the local "over 23's" pub). Drank less whilst in college than before, due to lack of funds. In the past 5 years, I've noticed pre-drinking has become very popular due to the excessive drinking, and not being able to smoke in the pubs also didn't help the pubs in that regard; most people whom I knew who would drink a lot tended to also smoke. Also, not going to the pub at all, and just going straight to the nightclub has become very favourable.

Or heck, for the post-college people; not even going to the nightclub. Find a gaff party, and drink there. Drink at your own pace, to good music. Unfortunately unless X Y and Z tell their other halves to bring friends, there's not much women, so we'll still have to go to the local meatmarket to meet up with women folk.

=-=

The only way to cut down the drinking attitude is to lose the taboo of drink. The old people and politicians don't want this, fearing we'll all go mad, but long term it's the only thing that will work.

It doesn't help that most politicians are involved in the pub trade, and want to keep people drinking heavily.

Sleepy

the_syco wrote: »

It doesn't help that most politicians are involved in the pub trade, and want to keep people drinking heavily.

Perversely, if we could manage to arrange for pubs to have longer opening hours and to be more affordable for people, I think you'd find many of us going to them more frequently.

username123

the_syco wrote: »

The draconian bit will actually encourage people to drink, as it's "instant rebellion". Raising the legal drink age won't do jack; most people disregard it at the moment as it stands. Not sure how you can make it anti-social to be locked, as it's the only social event that those from the 18-25 age range participates in.

Yes youre probably right. I think the key of it is in the bit I bolded. Pretty much all Irish social events are centered around alcohol. How could this be changed? Maybe it is already changing for some social events - I was at a christening recently where most people just ate cake and had tea.

Lia_lia

I have never understood the whole drinking thing tbh. I do drink, but not very much. Can easily go months without alcohol...and could give it up tomorrow no bother if I had to. But I still do like to enjoy a few drinks...rarely get extremely drunk though because after a certain amount I just feel really sick. And it takes quite a lot to get me drunk compared to most girls so I'm never really plastered


I just hate the way a lot of people look down on others if they drink too little/don't drink at all in this country.

I dunno, it's the culture.

I work in a bar and we had to do a Safe Service Of Alcohol course...some of the stuff we learned in it was mad! People don't realise how bad binge drinking is for your body!

April O Neill

LittleBook wrote: »

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well.

I don't personally. I went to mixed schools all the way through my primary and secondary education, and I still did the 'getting locked for dutch courage' thing from 17 onwards. I wasn't the best at talking to lads, but girls in school who were still went out getting drunk.

On the dutch courage thing, I met and chatting to my fella in a smoking area whilst pretty much sober. I had had 3 vodkas over the course of about 2 hours, sipped slowly and after having been out for a meal. They had barely touched me.

He was fairly drunk, but it was me who initiated. I can guarantee if I had been drunk, even if we had got chatting, it probably wouldn't have gone as well as it did. We actually properly talked. And then of course, if we had both been steamers, we might have had a ONS, and we both agree the relationship probably wouldn't have progressed from there.

So, I think the pub IS a good place to meet people, and alcohol CAN be part of the equation, but not massive quantities.

April O Neill

Posy wrote: »

Most of the girls I work with would be really big drinkers- a bottle of wine and a few vodkas before a night out, then in the pub several pints of bulmers followed by shots. Then off to some overpriced Temple Bar club for more shots and a few cocktails. This would be a pretty normal night out for them. The fact that this amount of alcohol doesn't even leave most of them with a major hangover anymore is actually scary. That amount of drink would kill me! :eek:

And SO much money, especially as it's Temple Bar! :eek:

April O Neill

username123 wrote: »

Yeah Neyite, a friend was in Munich last year and attended a festival that included beer and the town hall was opened to the public to visit. She said it never could have worked in Ireland. The town hall, an historic building, would have been wrecked by far too drunk Irish youth.

Would it?

I mean, people get messy, but I've never seen establishments get "wrecked"!

April O Neill

timewilltell wrote: »

I am now starting to drink less and less. I too could have been the girl in the first half of the article. I think at this stage every pub in Dublin must have a copy of my house keys! But it started to get monotonous. Go out, get hammered, wake up and piece the night together.

For me, drunken nights were still really enjoyable, to be honest (I love a good ol' drunken dance ), but how I felt the next day, and how much crap I'd eat the next day, started to make it not worth it. Really depressed, really depressed. Plus, drunks are great big bores and I hated the thought of being one of them on a regular basis.

And money is a huge part of it too. It is SUCH a waste.

April O Neill

username123 wrote: »

Maybe it is already changing for some social events - I was at a christening recently where most people just ate cake and had tea.

At any christening in my family, that's basically all that'd happen, with maybe the odd can of beer being cracked, or whisky doled out. Our family events, on both sides, never involved much alcohol.

I still threw myself into getting plastered every weekend in my late teens/early 20s.

username123

April O Neill wrote: »

Would it?

I mean, people get messy, but I've never seen establishments get "wrecked"!

Imagine St Patricks Day and an open historic building (people were being served beer in the building).

fits

I would like to see St Patricks Day completely rethought to be honest. Its embarrassing at the moment.

username123

April O Neill wrote: »

At any christening in my family, that's basically all that'd happen, with maybe the odd can of beer being cracked, or whisky doled out. Our family events, on both sides, never involved much alcohol.

I havent been to many christenings, but all the ones I went to prior to that were held in pubs with finger food. Drunk adults and bored children. This one happened in a house - maybe thats the difference. One memorable one was actually like a mini wedding, a reception room, speeches, a band, food and booze galore.