This made me think about my relationship with alcohol.

timewilltell

So I stumbled upon this article earlier on...

TO be honest it made me think about my relationship with alcohol.... I would have always considered myself good fun on a night out but where does the fun stop and the danger start?

http://her.ie/story/column-today-is-the-first-day-of-my-new-life-i-have-a-problem-with-alcohol-473776

Links234

A lot of the problems with drinking culture in Ireland are highlighted in that article.

Pre-drinking is one of the biggest, I think. People getting ****faced before they even go out just doesn't make sense to me. I quite like a nice beer but most nights out I'll probably have 3-4 pints max, but in the article she says hours of pre-drinking? That's mad. Seriously dangerous binge drinking right there.

I used to have my own problems with alcohol though. I suffer with anxiety attacks pretty bad, but a few years ago they were even worse and I used to drink to excess in order to cope with social situations. Wasn't fun and I sometimes got very wasted.

timewilltell

Links234 wrote: »

A lot of the problems with drinking culture in Ireland are highlighted in that article.

Pre-drinking is one of the biggest, I think. People getting ****faced before they even go out just doesn't make sense to me. I quite like a nice beer but most nights out I'll probably have 3-4 pints max, but in the article she says hours of pre-drinking? That's mad. Seriously dangerous binge drinking right there.

I used to have my own problems with alcohol though. I suffer with anxiety attacks pretty bad, but a few years ago they were even worse and I used to drink to excess in order to cope with social situations. Wasn't fun and I sometimes got very wasted.

I really agree with you. Hours of pre drinking seems crazy, yet when I was on college it was all the rage. In fact, if you weren't pre drinking on a night out there must have nbeen something wrong with you!
Very honest Links fair play, great that you found the courage to change.

gctest50

Just another makey-up article on a slow news day

Better :

http://her.ie/media/video-we-wish-we-could-sing-like-this-at-4am-irish-student-belts-out-another-love-after-night-out-391687

http://her.ie/media/video-she-s-back-another-tune-from-the-lady-who-can-sing-like-no-other-at-4am-909924

lazygal

A lot of people are in denial about their drinking or haven't a clue how much they consume. I know men who think a unit is a pint, and when told its two units they don't believe it. Couples splitting a bottle of wine several nights a week don't see a problem. I didn't realise how much I was drinking until I was pregnant with my first child. I got a reality check when I realised how the bottle recycling was down to practically nothing. Large home measures of spirits aren't liver friendly and women need to get real about how regular drinking can affect their health and fertility.

timewilltell

gctest50 wrote: »

Just another makey-up article on a slow news day

Better :

http://her.ie/media/video-we-wish-we-could-sing-like-this-at-4am-irish-student-belts-out-another-love-after-night-out-391687

http://her.ie/media/video-she-s-back-another-tune-from-the-lady-who-can-sing-like-no-other-at-4am-909924

But how do you know? Of course it could be but why they bother?

lazygal wrote: »

A lot of people are in denial about their drinking or haven't a clue how much they consume. I know men who think a unit is a pint, and when told its two units they don't believe it. Couples splitting a bottle of wine several nights a week don't see a problem. I didn't realise how much I was drinking until I was pregnant with my first child. I got a reality check when I realised how the bottle recycling was down to practically nothing. Large home measures of spirits aren't liver friendly and women need to get real about how regular drinking can affect their health and fertility.

Excellent point.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

username123

Alcohol use and abuse in Ireland is totally normalised. My father was an alcoholic so I also have an insight from the non social scene pov - ie, a litre of spirits a day behind closed doors being viewed as normal in my home.

The sheer volume people think is "normal" is scary.

Im not really in the kind of social scene detailed in the article anymore, but I can remember most of the things in that article being quite normal parts of the weekend when I was in my mid 20s. I think most young Irish people will have experienced it to a greater or lesser extent at some stage.

You only have to look at the streets of any major Irish city at 4am on a Saturday night to see the crowds of people staggering out of clubs and falling in front of cars etc...

Shots, cocktails, pre drinking, naggins in the handbag, jagerbombs etc... all seen as normal.

The country needs a cultural shift to its attitude to alcohol but I personally do not know how that could be achieved. People really think that you are just a dry ****e if you express any negative attitude to the volume of alcohol they consume.

timewilltell

username123 wrote: »

Alcohol use and abuse in Ireland is totally normalised. My father was an alcoholic so I also have an insight from the non social scene pov - ie, a litre of spirits a day behind closed doors being viewed as normal in my home.

The sheer volume people think is "normal" is scary.

Im not really in the kind of social scene detailed in the article anymore, but I can remember most of the things in that article being quite normal parts of the weekend when I was in my mid 20s. I think most young Irish people will have experienced it to a greater or lesser extent at some stage.

You only have to look at the streets of any major Irish city at 4am on a Saturday night to see the crowds of people staggering out of clubs and falling in front of cars etc...

Shots, cocktails, pre drinking, naggins in the handbag, jagerbombs etc... all seen as normal.

The country needs a cultural shift to its attitude to alcohol but I personally do not know how that could be achieved. People really think that you are just a dry ****e if you express any negative attitude to the volume of alcohol they consume.

I have to agree. Reading the article I would find many of the situations mentioned as 'normal.' Pre drinking, friends falling, me falling, losing things. It's as if the whole idea of going out for a night out is to get as blind drunk as possible.

Links234

timewilltell wrote: »

I really agree with you. Hours of pre drinking seems crazy, yet when I was on college it was all the rage. In fact, if you weren't pre drinking on a night out there must have nbeen something wrong with you!

that's what I mean about the drinking culture, it's the done thing, people drink to get smashed off their faces and I think it's in part due to pub closing times, by the time you're out for the night you've only a couple of hours before they throw people out and that leads to people trying to get drunk fast instead of pacing themselves over longer times.

timewilltell wrote: »

Very honest Links fair play, great that you found the courage to change.

I think it's habit, drinking is a habit just like anything else. these days I mostly go for a night out in craft beer places, places that have a large selection of world beers and not just the usual. when you're around people who drink something to enjoy the taste of it, it's a whole lot more chilled out. so I've been changing my drinking habits, I rarely go for any spirits and I don't drink just to get drunk, I drink because I enjoy what I'm drinking. gone are the days of down pints of Stella Artois

I also try to avoid busy pubs, etc so as not to get any unnessicary anxiety, there's a few places I just won't step foot in. so I don't need to drink to cope with the social anxiety.

and I rarely drink at home. seriously, got 2 bottles of beer in the fridge that have been there for a few months now, I fully intended to watch a movie and drink them, but I just didn't feel like drinking them at all while at home.

fits

Is that kind of binging, pre-drinking something that most people grow out of anyway? I was stupid while in college too but I barely do that now.

there is also the small drink every evening that can creep up on you.

username123

timewilltell wrote: »

I have to agree. Reading the article I would find many of the situations mentioned as 'normal.' Pre drinking, friends falling, me falling, losing things. It's as if the whole idea of going out for a night out is to get as blind drunk as possible.

Oh completely normal, and often facilitated by cheap promotions in bars as well.

There is no culture of "a couple of drinks" in this country. People go out to get drunk. If people are not getting drunk, they have the car and drink 7up - and are treated with suspicion.

I dont really go to pubs anymore. I go for an event, an occasion - and my limit these days is about 6 drinks. That would have been a pre drinking session in my 20s.

Vojera

username123 wrote: »

This country needs a cultural shift to its attitude to alcohol but I personally do not know how that could be achieved. People really think that you are just a dry ****e if you express any negative attitude to the volume of alcohol they consume.

I agree with this wholeheartedly, but you don't even need to mention other people's drinking; just not drinking yourself or having the odd pint of water is enough to have people nag you all night about how much of a dry ****e you are.

I'm not teetotal or anything (nothing wrong with that) but I've dramatically cut down my drinking in the last year. I didn't even have a drink on the day of my wedding a few months ago. It wasn't really a conscious thing, I was just so busy chatting and dancing that pints of mi-wadi were just handier. I'd say I have a drink once every two or three months at this stage.

If I'm going out (or staying in) it's much of a muchness to me whether I drink or not. I don't need it to have a good time and I don't miss it if I stick with soft drinks. My immediate circle of friends know this and they'll ask me if I want a "proper" drink twice. After that they know I'm just not on for drinking and that's grand with them.

The problems start when there's a gang of friends of friends or random people who start talking to our group. At some point one of them will realise I'm not drinking and it becomes this thing to fixate on. It's as though by not drinking I'm personally insulting them or passing comment on their drinking. I'll be labelled a dry ****e all night, constantly have remarks passed about me and I've even had people "buy me a coke" more than once only to discover they've put vodka or something in it, as if I wouldn't notice. (Obviously they think this idea is hilarious).

There are some people for whom the idea of staying sober is a completely alien and even threatening concept. And those people are far too common. It's not a minority by any means.

lazygal

On both pregnancies when I wasn't drinking before we told people I got comments about being pregnant. You can't not drink alcohol for no reason, people assume there has to be a specific reason for not drinking and can get oddly stroppy when you don't explain not drinking.

RedSeven7

username123 wrote: »

The country needs a cultural shift to its attitude to alcohol but I personally do not know how that could be achieved. People really think that you are just a dry ****e if you express any negative attitude to the volume of alcohol they consume.

I 100% agree with you on that one, and I think it's even worse for the younger generation. I just turned 18, and the amount that my friends drink at a house party or going out is really unbelievable. I actually don't drink myself, I've just never been bothered really, sure I've my whole college life for that sort of thing, and I think the age teenagers start drinking is ridiculous. I mean 14 and 15 year olds getting completely ****faced?? The drinking culture here seriously needs to be changed but how??
A lot of girls my age, and younger, would be pre-drink from around 6 o'clock and keep drinking till they're vomiting, unconscious etc. One girl even p*ssed herself in the middle of a bus on our graduation night. Then they all brag about it afterwards and upload pictures onto facebook. I honestly can't stand it anymore and there is no way to change it, it's so normalized. Most of my friends' lives revolve around alcohol.

username123

RedSeven7 wrote: »

The drinking culture here seriously needs to be changed but how??

I really am at a loss on this. Its actually seen as a badge of honour to get so drunk out of your head that you vomit and/or pass out. Youre great craic!

Its how we view alcohol. We view it as something we drink to get drunk - that is the purpose of alcohol. In other countries they enjoy a couple of drinks. Or appreciate wine with dinner. Or have a liquer after a meal. Here we have beers first, wine with dinner, liquer afterwards, and then onto the club for copious shots and more beer.

If people are starting to fade they get red bull, to facilitate more alcohol consumption.

The most bizarre aspect is how people actually dont believe the guidelines to safe alcohol consumption, or simply think it doesnt apply to them, or just assume that 1 pint = 1 unit and think no further than that.

PingO_O

A lot of people's attitudes don't really help either i.e. not drinking = no craic.

If I tell people I'm not drinking because I don't feel like it they shake their heads in disappointment, then the quizzing starts, "why not?" " will you not have one?" etc.

RedSeven7

Looks like nobody knows what to do!!

Do you think maybe treating alcohol like cigarettes would make a difference? If advertising wasn't allowed, because they really do sell such a false image. But then again look at all the controversy over alcoholic companies not being allowed to sponsor sporting events. Sigh.

PingO_O

RedSeven7 wrote: »

Looks like nobody knows what to do!!

Do you think maybe treating alcohol like cigarettes would make a difference? If advertising wasn't allowed, because they really do sell such a false image. But then again look at all the controversy over alcoholic companies not being allowed to sponsor sporting events. Sigh.

Everyone does know what to do in a way though. If you're getting sh**faced every night like the girl in the article then you've got to take a look at your drinking and change it for your own sake. It comes down to the individual.

Nothing wrong with having a few and having a good night but the difference between that and getting absolutely wasted is what people need to think about imo.

username123

I think we need to target young people. Make them see how unattractive being locked out of your head is. Make it somewhat antisocial to be locked. Education at an early stage - before they start drinking at all. Get the medical community involved, question people at routine appointments on their drinking habits and comment if its over the recommended limits.

Its quite draconian but we need to stop the advertising, stop the promotions, have better pub policing - where people are actually thrown out or refused to be served if they are already drunk.

And some alternative to every single occasion being a reason to drink. Weddings, christenings, matches, Christmas, Good Friday(?!!), St Patricks Day, finish exams....every celebration is an excuse to drink - but what are the alternatives? What exactly is there to do in Ireland on St Patricks Day if you want to socialise but not drink? Or any other occasion.

rainbowtrout

Links234 wrote: »

that's what I mean about the drinking culture, it's the done thing, people drink to get smashed off their faces and I think it's in part due to pub closing times, by the time you're out for the night you've only a couple of hours before they throw people out and that leads to people trying to get drunk fast instead of pacing themselves over longer times.

I don't fully agree. Lots of people in Ireland just have no concept of going out for two drinks and going home again sober. Alcohol is expensive in Ireland so I'm not surprised there is so much pre drinking, I used to do in in college 10-15 years ago as did my friends because we had so little money but never did it when I left college. Now it seems to be the norm.

So people pre drink, have a couple in the pub and then move on to the late bar/nightclub and continue to drink until they fall over.

XxMCRxBabyxX

username123 wrote: »

I think we need to target young people. Make them see how unattractive being locked out of your head is. Make it somewhat antisocial to be locked.

This could be very difficult. Currently, it seems that the more drunk you are, the cooler and more attractive you are. Something I could never understand but that's probably because I've never been a drinker.

I used to drink a little, 1 or 2 a night and I've never been drunk, but then I just realised that I wasn't bothered with it at all so stopped entirely. My friends do all drink though, most pretty heavily at times but I have just had to learn to get used to drunkeness. The funniest thing is that so many people have said to me that they don't know how I can handle being around drunk people all night but never seem to consider themselves or their group / whoever they're after to be part of that.

I tried to step up a non-drinking society this year, the Hangover-Free Society, to encourage nights out without alcohol. It was more popular than I had expected, with both drinkers and non-drinkers joining, but unfortunately didn't work out due to my having to defer from college. I'm hoping to get it back up and running in Sept and maybe we could change things a little! Show people that you can have s good time without being off your face. if I can do it, other definitely can! :-)

Pretzill

Pre drinking is something that missed my generation of clubbing etc, but drink was a lot more affordable in pubs in those days.

I'm not that old but my first drink out was a half a lager at 69p - The other difference was this was also pre sweet drinks craze - no alcopops or fat frogs - just beer, lager and spirits. And wine was sickly sweet white reisling affair! But I do believe my generation also has a very relaxed attirude to alcohol I'm early 40's and don't socialise like a young wan anymore but with friends who like me enjoy a glass or three of vino. Boy sometimes those glasses are like fishbowls too. And this at home wine drinking has become very socially acceptable through advertising, constantly viewed as the norm on tv soaps and dramas etc.

So I decided to cut back and what really encouraged me was how much better I felt when I went days without a drink - I'm not saying I was even putting away a whole lot it was just all those relaxing individual glasses adding up and mainly on my waistline. We do think alcohol is acceptable but inevitably it comes down to personal choice to reign in your excessiveness. I began to change my attitude to drinking when I realised I enjoyed it, but was enjoying it too much.

And cutting it down means I can still enjoy a glass in my old age.

I wonder how it came about tbh, for example I drank very little in my teens and twenties and even when I drank it was something like a bottle of Ritz( a pear cider ) I did not know any woman who drank spirits and whisky was an old mans drink and gin and tonic was what old people drank, lots of women did not drink my mother and father never drank and none of her friends did( they were also referred to as Mrs Byrne and Mrs Kelly etc, despite knowing them most of her life ) Wine was a bottle of blue nun, I remember someone ordering a bottle of mattis Rosa at our debs and we thought she was very sophisticated!

Yet when I look at my daughters generation regularly getting drunk is unremarkable they drink vodka before going out nobody in my youngest daughters circle is a non drinker, my ex husband was very shocked at this when our oldest daughter stared going our and was half convinced that a 19 year old buying vodka and pre drinking meant she had a problem with drink he found it very hard to understand what her and her friends were up to.

username123

About 10 or 12 years ago (I was in my late 20s at the time), I gave up alcohol for a year. I just had had too many of the events of the article happen and was sick of it. So I decided to see if I could last a year off it.

The first thing that happened was that my social circle took a shake up where people who I thought were friends seemed angry with me for deciding not to drink and tried to persuade me otherwise and when I held steady - no longer invited me out. My not drinking threw their drinking into sharp relief. They behaved as though my decision not to drink was me standing in judgement of them. So I lost some "friends" - not real friends, drinking buddies.

I saved a fortune because I just drove to stuff and had a 7up and drove home.

I no longer stayed up so late when I was out. No more staggering out of lock ins or through the streets of Dublin looking for a taxi at 5 or 6am. So I got more sleep. And the sleep I got wasnt tainted by alcohol so I was sleeping better.

I became more confident. I never ever had to think "what did I do or say last night" the morning after.

I actually began to enjoy Sunday mornings going for a walk or getting up early.

I began to (re)discover all kinds of activities that I hadnt bothered doing in years like going to the theatre, a show, a gig, the cinema, a late night walk, etc..

When the year was up I was a little frightened by alcohol. I had seen the world in a different light. I have never ever drank the way I did prior to that year since that year. I do enjoy a drink from time to time, and maybe 2 or 3 times a year I have more than a couple of drinks at one time. But my life no longer evolves around "its the weekend, lets drink". Ive never drank at home so that was never an issue for me.

LittleBook

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

This could be very difficult. Currently, it seems that the more drunk you are, the cooler and more attractive you are.

It depends on what you think is cool.

A few years ago, my daughter was "into" straight edge. She had no interest in alcohol or drugs but was (is) a huge music fan so a "subgenre of hard core punk" which isn't interested in drugs and alcohol went a long way towards fielding those barbs about being dull if you didn't drink or take drugs.

XxMCRxBabyxX

LittleBook wrote: »

It depends on what you think is cool.

A few years ago, my daughter was "into" straight edge. She had no interest in alcohol or drugs but was (is) a huge music fan so a "subgenre of hard core punk" which isn't interested in drugs and alcohol went a long way towards fielding those barbs about being dull if you didn't drink or take drugs.

I was more talking about the general view these days than individuals. I would be the same as your daughter

vitani

I pretty much stopped drinking three years ago. I still go out for special occasions and would have one or two, but I could count on one hand the amount of times I've been 'drunk' in the past few years.

Before that, I do feel my drinking was out of control. I never got aggressive or injured but I'd use drink as an excuse to get rid of my inhibitions and would do and say things out of character. This would lead to the most crushing shame and guilt the next morning which seriously affected my self-esteem.

My lifestyle is completely different now and I don't miss drink at all. I love waking up with a clear head every morning, I love not having all-day hangovers. My money gets spent on my hobbies and my daughter instead of drink and taxis. Most importantly, I feel like I'm being myself all the time. I'm not hiding behind alcohol any more. And while that might make me more boring or sensible to some people, I have my self-respect back.

I've lost touch with some friends because the one thing we had in common doesn't exist any more, but that's ok. The friends I've kept, I've ended up closer to.

LittleBook

XxMCRxBabyxX wrote: »

I was more talking about the general view these days than individuals. I would be the same as your daughter

I know, but we were just talking about ways to make younger people see how unattractive being locked out of your head is and this made a huge difference round our way.

Sorry, I didn't mean it depends on what YOU think is cool, was talking about the point you were referring to and "young people"

LittleBook

vitani wrote: »

I'd use drink as an excuse to get rid of my inhibitions and would do and say things out of character

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Why worry about your already brittle teenage self-esteem when you can have a few drinks and it's not even an issue anymore.

LittleBook

LittleBook wrote: »

I think you've hit the nail on the head there. Why worry about your already brittle teenage self-esteem when you can have a few drinks and it's not even an issue anymore.

You might have just found the answer to a conundrum I often wonder about how come teenage/early adulthood has become so prolonged in some younger people, the drinking culture we have now has allowed some young people to put off a psychological important stage of growing up.

username123

Another possible issue is the "dating" culture in this country.

Compared to say, the US, dating is not a well defined concept in this country. Its mostly something hidden from parents facilitated by dutch (gold) courage. If we actually had young people having supervised dates from an early age, if this was more normalised, perhaps teenagers wouldnt need to lash the drinks in for a bit of courage to approach someone.

Im sure we all remember the fear of finding a date for the debs - its really the first time society is supportive of "dating" in this country - when we are 17 or 18 - but realistically young people are hooking up much younger than that.

PingO_O

I agree yeh, young people are going out on a Friday drinking cans in a field before they've even had their first girlfriend / boyfriend it's kinda crazy when you think about it.

I can remember at 15/16 going out drinking cans on a Friday was what everyone did or wanted to do.

LittleBook

username123 wrote: »

perhaps teenagers wouldnt need to lash the drinks in for a bit of courage to approach someone

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well. It's always going to be hard to be yourself with someone you "like" but not being able to be yourself in front of the opposite sex in general is a bigger problem.

lazygal

LittleBook wrote: »

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well. It's always going to be hard to be yourself with someone you "like" but not being able to be yourself in front of the opposite sex in general is a bigger problem.

Couldn't agree more, especially if you go to primary and secondary schools that are all one gender. I think I'd have been far better developed socially had I gone to a mixed school and my husband says the same. It was college before I really 'talked' to men like normal people and I found it quite a stunting social experience going through school with all girls. I'm really conscious of this for my children, I don't want the opposite sex to be something to keep them away from. I know there's some evidence of better educational outcomes for single sex schools but for me that's cancelled out by the negative social outcomes.

username123

LittleBook wrote: »

I think our segregated school system has a lot to answer for in that respect as well. It's always going to be hard to be yourself with someone you "like" but not being able to be yourself in front of the opposite sex in general is a bigger problem.

I went to a mixed school and that has is own issues tbh. But the drinking round the back of the bike sheds before school discos was still going on. People still werent "dating" in any kind of supported manner - by that I mean they werent supported by their parents (it was usually a secret) and if the teachers caught them holding hands etc they were told to get away from each other.

Sleepy

Social isolation would be a big element of it imo. As a nation we seem to need alcohol to let go enough of our inhibitions to simply talk to one another. Add in the retarded notion that sex is "dirty" and you have many girls getting ****faced in order to satisfy their sexual desires with the mental get-out-of-jail-free card of "aragh, I was locked, I'd never do that sober" :rolleyes:

How do we deal with the nations alcohol problems? IMO, we need to find ways to encourage face-to-face interaction between young people. Single-sex schools seem to discourage normal social interaction, smart-phones and social networks act as a crutch that prevents people from learning how to interact IRL. Proper sex-ed (including demonstration of safe use of condoms etc.) and the removal of religion from our classrooms would also help in this regard. If we're not teaching our daughters that normal sexual interaction is something that only bad girls do, they'll not feel the need to get ****-faced in order to have it.

EDIT: I think you'd need to remove the "supervised" element of your support for teen-dating to get them to go along with it username123 but if we could react to the news that our sons/daughters had an interest in a boy/girl from school by slipping them an extra €20 with their pocket-money (or providing them with a chance to earn it, etc) to take their crush to the cinema / out for a burger and milkshake etc. in the full knowledge that they had the correct sex education to know not to rush into things / allow themselves to be pressured into something they weren't comfortable with and to use proper precautions with what they were comfortable doing, I think we'd see some results.

eviltwin

I'm not much of a drinker - christmas and special events only. I don't drink because I don't like it, I'd much rather have a non alcoholic drink instead. I find that most of my friends who are meant to be mature and sensible still have a hard time accepting the fact I don't drink. I don't get called boring but I know people think I'm not as much fun without a drink. I don't know if it makes them feel bad about their own drinking or if its just this Irish thing where the idea of a night out without alcohol is akin to a kind of torture or something but it makes me wonder if that is the attitude of people who are 30+ what chance do teenagers have?

username123

Sleepy wrote: »

EDIT: I think you'd need to remove the "supervised" element of your support for teen-dating to get them to go along with it username123 but if we could react to the news that our sons/daughters had an interest in a boy/girl from school by slipping them an extra €20 with their pocket-money (or providing them with a chance to earn it, etc) to take their crush to the cinema / out for a burger and milkshake etc. in the full knowledge that they had the correct sex education to know not to rush into things / allow themselves to be pressured into something they weren't comfortable with and to use proper precautions with what they were comfortable doing, I think we'd see some results.

When I say supervised Im talking about younger teens who would need supervision anyway - kids not old enough to go off on dates alone - so maybe the parents could drive them to the cinema and then go and have a coffee while the 13 or so year olds watch the movie - that type of thing.

LittleBook

username123 wrote: »

I went to a mixed school and that has is own issues tbh. But the drinking round the back of the bike sheds before school discos was still going on. People still werent "dating" in any kind of supported manner - by that I mean they werent supported by their parents (it was usually a secret) and if the teachers caught them holding hands etc they were told to get away from each other.

Oh I think there'll always be an element of what goes on "behind the bike sheds".

Funnily enough though, when I was in (an all girls) school, we actually had the supervised dating element that you mention. Every Friday there was a school dance with the boys from the corresponding secondary school supervised, of course, by the nuns and priests but there were slow sets and mixing was encouraged.

It all migh seem a bit tame (a tad "Ballroom of Romance" ) now but I can't think of anything that's replaced it, at least not in the mixed school my daughter went to.

username123

LittleBook wrote: »

Funnily enough though, when I was in (an all girls) school, we actually had the supervised dating element that you mention. Every Friday there was a school dance with the boys from the corresponding secondary school supervised, of course, by the nuns and priests but there were slow sets and mixing was encouraged.

We had school discos with slow sets but you had to have a snog quickly as youd be separated by over zealous teachers otherwise!!

I suppose the whole mixing with the opposite sex needs a bit of a cultural overhaul as well.

Alcohol seems like a kind of taboo mystery when you are young - well it was to me growing up. I was never exposed to moderate drinking at home, or encouraged to have a drink at home myself. Christmas Day was the only day of the year that a glass of wine was offered.

Its funny it took me till my forties to realise how much I was influenced by mother in so many ways, my father was a pioneer and wore the badge on his suit lapel all his life, although he never had anything against anyone else drinking my mother however believed respectable men ( especially if they were married ) did not drink regularly her own father my grandfather only drank on a fair day, anyway both my first and second husband do not drink, its funny but people always assume that men who don't drink have had a problem with alcohol but with both my husbands it was just a case of giving it up or have never been that interested in the first place.

Any relationship I was in lived or died depending on how much the man in question drank, I have noting against men ( or women ) drinking but I was always weary of any man that spent every weekend in the pub or who though going to a pub was a date.

Princess Peach

I could have written the first part of that article myself :pac: Up until the sleeping with randoms part

I used to drink a lot when I was about 3/4 years younger. At least one night a week, usually 2 or 3 I'd be out, and most often drank till I blacked out. I know now I was doing it to cope with my depression. Twas grand cause all my friends were the same sure, except maybe not as often as me. Got a bit fed up of it in the end mostly cause I had a reputation as the drunk mess. I'd meet people for the first time who had heard of me as a party girl! Was tough to cut back though, friends weren't much help at all.

Looking back I was pretty hard on myself for my behaviour when I drank. I would get a bit loud, tell my life story to randoms, and fall down stairs alright. But I always got home to my own bed in the end, and alone! When I hear stories of what other people get up to drunk I feel better about myself :pac: One of my old party friends very well could be the author of the article. But I still needed to cut back lots. Drinking is fun but I was taking it to excess too often.

Haven't blacked out in a few years now!

Neyite

username123 wrote: »

I think we need to target young people. Make them see how unattractive being locked out of your head is. Make it somewhat antisocial to be locked. Education at an early stage - before they start drinking at all. Get the medical community involved, question people at routine appointments on their drinking habits and comment if its over the recommended limits.

In Germany, a place with a big beer industry, its considered skanger-ish to be publicly drunk by the young people - this is people who are late teens & twenties. You can get as hammered as you like in your own home, just not in public. A few of us Irish did the pre-drinking with vodka one night and our german classmates were shocked to the point where they seriously suggested AA if that was a regular weekend for us. We just laughed it off and when they came to visit and saw the pub culture here realised that we were moderate compared to some.
But it was a wake up call to see young people our own ages being shocked at our intake.

Posy

Most of the girls I work with would be really big drinkers- a bottle of wine and a few vodkas before a night out, then in the pub several pints of bulmers followed by shots. Then off to some overpriced Temple Bar club for more shots and a few cocktails. This would be a pretty normal night out for them. The fact that this amount of alcohol doesn't even leave most of them with a major hangover anymore is actually scary. That amount of drink would kill me! :eek:

I have always been a 'lightweight' when it comes to alcohol and trying to drink as much as my peers lead to some very bad hangovers bordering on alcohol poisoning when I was younger. I used to be embarrassed that I couldn't drink as much as everyone else and made myself sick trying to.
In my early twenties I threw up in a taxi and the angry driver booted me out in the middle of nowhere- no idea how I got home. It was situations like that one that made me realise I had to drink at my own pace and not to be ashamed of how little alcohol I can consume.

username123

Yeah Neyite, a friend was in Munich last year and attended a festival that included beer and the town hall was opened to the public to visit. She said it never could have worked in Ireland. The town hall, an historic building, would have been wrecked by far too drunk Irish youth.

Its a bit of a generalisation but Ireland is so populated with skangers that Im not sure public drunkeness being viewed as skangery would be a turn off!

ash23

I enjoy alcohol. Not always responsibly. But I don't think I've ever blacked out. I made one or two dubious choices in my younger days but not in a long time now have I ever woke up thinking "oh no".

I pre-drink at the house, usually a bottle of wine. And then I might have one or two drinks when out but often I'd not even finish them as I know when I've had enough.

I don't necessarily think that getting drunk is that bad. Getting inebriated is a totally different story. If you're not in control of what you're doing and you're doing things that you wouldn't do sober, then yes, learn your limits.
But I don't really have a problem with people going out to get drunk, have a laugh, a dance, a kebab and get home safely.

There are many different levels of drunk and types of drunks and that has to be considered also.

kylith

I was a 'drink to get plastered' girl back in the day, but thankfully I grew out of it after not knowing how I got home once or twice. The idea that anything could have happened to me was a real wake-up call.

It wasn't pre-drinking amongst my friends; it was post-drinking - get drunk in the club and then back to someone's gaff at kicking out time for either drink bought earlier or carry out from the venue. Personally I'd consider that somewhat better than pre-drinking because it meant that by the time you were properly wasted you were already on a couch somewhere surrounded by friends, and because there was no impetus to drink fast because you were going out we tended to drink more at our own pace.

I was exposed to moderate drinking at home. My parents would have a few drinks most nights, but they were never seen to be drunk. Alcohol was never taboo and I was allowed a glass of wine with dinner from about 15/16, which I rarely accepted because I didn't like it.

These days I drink very little, less than once a month most of the time. I enjoy beers and drinking seldomly means that I splash out on 4 nice beers rather than 8 crap ones.

One thing that I believe is that the off licence hours are not conducive to a healthy attitude to alcohol. OH and I were out for dinner recently. We were trying to decide whether to go on to a pub or go home. We decided that we wanted to go home, but to pick up a few beers on the way. We then noticed that it was 2145, and I necked what I was drinking in order to get to the offie before it shut. If I'd had more time I would have drunk my beer more slowly and sauntered over to choose some craft beers at my leisure instead of rushing over and grabbing the first six pack I could before the shutters came down. I'm a 31 year old woman, dagnabbit, I shouldn't have to run around like a loon because I fancy having a beer at home after dinner out!

timewilltell

So many good point mentioned.

To be honest college life influenced a lot of my drinking. If you weren't pre drinking on a night it was if there was something wrong with you. If you weren't drinking at all then you definitely must be a bit odd. Looking back now I definitely subjected myself to that pressure.

I am now starting to drink less and less. I too could have been the girl in the first half of the article. I think at this stage every pub in Dublin must have a copy of my house keys! But it started to get monotonous. Go out, get hammered, wake up and piece the night together.

I think it's a bit odd that so man of us centre our nights out on how inebriated we are planning to get.

the_syco

The page ain't opening for me, so can't read it.

username123 wrote: »

Its how we view alcohol. We view it as something we drink to get drunk - that is the purpose of alcohol. In other countries they enjoy a couple of drinks. Or appreciate wine with dinner. Or have a liquer after a meal. Here we have beers first, wine with dinner, liquer afterwards, and then onto the club for copious shots and more beer.

Here, you turn 18, and get madly drunk. In many other countries, you've given a beer to drink with the family, and being able to buy beer yourself is not a "OMG, I CAN BUY ALCOHOL AND GET DRUNK" moment, but a "I can buy drink" moment.

It doesn't help that up until recently, there wasn't much else to do aside from drinking. Some will say that's a bit of a cop out, and whilst that may be true, unless there's a cinema nearby you, there's not much social activities to do that involve the opposite sex in a relaxed atmosphere.

RedSeven7 wrote: »

Do you think maybe treating alcohol like cigarettes would make a difference? If advertising wasn't allowed, because they really do sell such a false image. But then again look at all the controversy over alcoholic companies not being allowed to sponsor sporting events. Sigh.

Anyone that I know who started drinking, started drinking the cheapest alcoholic beverage possible. It's only after you start drinking does the advertisements start to affect you, if even. And by then, it's control of market share.

username123 wrote: »

I think we need to target young people. Make them see how unattractive being locked out of your head is. Make it somewhat antisocial to be locked. Education at an early stage - before they start drinking at all. Get the medical community involved, question people at routine appointments on their drinking habits and comment if its over the recommended limits.

Its quite draconian but we need to stop the advertising, stop the promotions, have better pub policing - where people are actually thrown out or refused to be served if they are already drunk.

The draconian bit will actually encourage people to drink, as it's "instant rebellion". Raising the legal drink age won't do jack; most people disregard it at the moment as it stands. Not sure how you can make it anti-social to be locked, as it's the only social event that those from the 18-25 age range participates in.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I don't fully agree. Lots of people in Ireland just have no concept of going out for two drinks and going home again sober. Alcohol is expensive in Ireland so I'm not surprised there is so much pre drinking, I used to do in in college 10-15 years ago as did my friends because we had so little money but never did it when I left college. Now it seems to be the norm.

So people pre drink, have a couple in the pub and then move on to the late bar/nightclub and continue to drink until they fall over.

Agreed. Before it was two cans before going out, and to get in early whilst "happy hour" is on. Now it's a case of drinking 6-10 cans before hitting the nightclub, so you have some "dutch courage" when you hit the dancefloor.

Went to a mixed school, and from a dudes pov, most of the hooking up didn't happen until alcohol was introduced at the weekend. Was in a mixed school from the early 90's.

timewilltell wrote: »

I think it's a bit odd that so man of us centre our nights out on how inebriated we are planning to get.

I think it's sad that there is little else that we all know about (before anyone jumps down my throat) that doesn't involve drinking. I know of people who have left golf clubs and other sports clubs as even they revolve around drinking.

=-=

Started ditch drinking when I was about 16, and in the pub when I was 17 (in the local "over 23's" pub). Drank less whilst in college than before, due to lack of funds. In the past 5 years, I've noticed pre-drinking has become very popular due to the excessive drinking, and not being able to smoke in the pubs also didn't help the pubs in that regard; most people whom I knew who would drink a lot tended to also smoke. Also, not going to the pub at all, and just going straight to the nightclub has become very favourable.

Or heck, for the post-college people; not even going to the nightclub. Find a gaff party, and drink there. Drink at your own pace, to good music. Unfortunately unless X Y and Z tell their other halves to bring friends, there's not much women, so we'll still have to go to the local meatmarket to meet up with women folk.

=-=

The only way to cut down the drinking attitude is to lose the taboo of drink. The old people and politicians don't want this, fearing we'll all go mad, but long term it's the only thing that will work.

It doesn't help that most politicians are involved in the pub trade, and want to keep people drinking heavily.

Sleepy

the_syco wrote: »

It doesn't help that most politicians are involved in the pub trade, and want to keep people drinking heavily.

Perversely, if we could manage to arrange for pubs to have longer opening hours and to be more affordable for people, I think you'd find many of us going to them more frequently.