New Dublin Bus 2013 GT (proposed or permanent) Allocations

lil5

Thanks for the pictures.

Like the additional buggy space.
Any idea whether the first of GT's can and will be retrofitted?

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

In order to allow for direct comparisons they are being kept on directly comparable work,ie the same route/duty cycles.

Until, that is, they find their way out of the garage on another route;)

AX478 back on the 49 tonight with no display issues..

Is there any other batch that is doing the same thing. I can't think of many other batches that are rock solid day in day out.

dfx-

three of these are on the 54A today, GT84, GT85 and GT87

dublinman1990

dfx- wrote: »

three of these are on the 54A today, GT84, GT85 and GT87

That was very quick. If I see any of them on my travels on the 114 today I'll let you know or otherwise.

Have you got any pics of them yet?

AlekSmart

lil5 wrote: »

Thanks for the pictures.

Like the additional buggy space.
Any idea whether the first of GT's can and will be retrofitted?

The first 70 GT's will be having the outer seat at the bottom of the stairwell removed following representations from Powered Wheelchair users who have substantial difficulties swinging their chairs into the space as aresult of this seat's position.

dublinbusdude

Heres a Picture of GT87: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dublinbusdude/9344616552/

dublinman1990

Hi dfx-,

GT83 was on the 114 yesterday evening as expected. It came on the 17:15 bus from Blackrock.

I was only on it for a short time though. It went through Carysfort Avenue very quickly in fact.

It was very much the same as the last batch of double deckers though apart from the new tree fender and yellow wing mirrors as such.

davidlacey

The number 7 route seems to be getting a fair amount of them, seen 5 of the new gt's on that route in the last 2 days, surprising considering the route was well served by the 2012 batch already...

There was one on the 46A this morning, I think it was GT86. Saw it outside Dun Laoghaire DART station just before 9am.

devnull

Not sure why Donnybrook are getting GT's, seeing that they never use the center doors on any of their routes from what I have seen. I know the old chestnut about them being lined up is often spouted, but you can have a bus perfectly lined up and center doors will still not be used.

When I've been in the city center I've seen the 4's and the 7's load quite a few times at the same stops as each other, and I'd estimate about 80% of time the 4's will use the center doors and very rarely will the drivers on the 7's do the same thing. It's a crazy situation and no excuse for it.

Even this morning seeing a 123 pull into O'Connell Street, where 75% of the bus gets off, the dwell time must have been around five minutes. That is crazy, considering the 123 has a stop all to itself on the street and has plenty of room to pull in. There is no excuse for not using the center doors. I don't care what the unions say. This is supposed to be a public transport system for the benefit of the public.

As I said, I stopped using DB a few years ago for their lack of customer focus, and I won't be going back to the bus anytime soon apart from airport runs and nitelink. The stubbornness of some drivers who are determined not to use those doors does nothing for the efficiency of the company. The customer should always come first, but the current arrangement just puts two fingers up to them.

john boye

I've been on GTs on the 54A 5 times this week and the centre doors were opened on every trip (and used by passengers too)

devnull

I don't see the 54 regularly so cannot comment on that. But it's good they are being used on some routes, since if used properly the use of center doors will dramatically decrease dwell times and make the service faster for everyone which can only be a good thing. nearly every other capital city in Europe manage it, why can't we?

I know that it's been said on here that drivers cannot be forced to used the center doors because of some union agreement, which I think is nonsense, sure common sense should be applied not to use them when it is dangerous, but when it isn't dangerous they should be used and this should not be something that is disputed. They've even specified slide out doors and a camera which most other countries get by without. But still we won't use them.

If they can't discipline drivers for not using the doors because of the above, Dublin Bus should ensure that the vehicles are removed from the route and garage they are allocated to, and re-allocate to some duties where they will be used, with the new route/garage they are operating on, sending the existing vehicles back in return, hopefully picking the oldest vehicles in the worst shape.

If that means a garage loses all their new vehicles or the drivers are unhappy losing a 2013 bus to be replaced with a 2000 registered bus that is just tough. If they want to keep the newer vehicles they should make use out of them. It also rewards people who will be customer focused and use the doors, with new buses to drive, whilst ensuring that those who do not put the customers first pay the price.

I know it may not be desirable to have older vehicles on high profile routes, but if action cannot be taken against the drivers something has to be done to get the message across and say that the current anti-customer situation cannot be allowed to go on any longer.

It's ridiculous when a taxpayer pays for something with features to improve the customer experience of public transport, yet they are not being used and unless this is addressed properly, I'd strongly be against any more funding for any new buses in the future until they make more efficient use of the ones they already have.

AlekSmart

john boye wrote: »

I've been on GTs on the 54A 5 times this week and the centre doors were opened on every trip (and used by passengers too)

Thank you John Boye,your fresh unbiased observations are most welcome,perhaps if only to underline how we,sometimes only see what we want to see....;)

As to the Dwell Time issue,whilst on the surface the use of Double Doors should reduce it,however the current Leapcard/Wayfarer fiasco has completely negated any such hopes.

Added to this is some quite basic flaws in the GT design,specifically the lack of alignment between the Stairwell and the Centre Exit,which had it been to the London Standard, would have had the Stairwell facing directly into the Doorwell with subseqent benefits in pasenger flow.

There are also some issues regarding the Parking Brake/Centre Door interlock,which currently means that the Parking Brake must be applied before the Centre Door can operate.

However,by far and away the most pressing issue is the impossibility of operating a 150 year old Fare Stage system,now with 16 different Cash/Leap permutations,in a 21st Century environment.

devnull

AlekSmart wrote: »

Thank you John Boye,your fresh unbiased observations are most welcome,perhaps if only to underline how we,sometimes only see what we want to see....;)

No, I report what I see also - thanks for the sniping though.

As to the Dwell Time issue,whilst on the surface the use of Double Doors should reduce it,however the current Leapcard/Wayfarer fiasco has completely negated any such hopes.

The double doors WILL reduce it, since on the 123 example I gave yesterday, it took 2-3 minutes for people to disembark when if there was two doors it would have been far quicker. I agree that the current fare, ticketing and ticket machine set-up's don't help dwell times, but that does not justify not using the center doors. Better to reduce the dwell times by 2 minutes than not at all.

Specifically the lack of alignment between the Stairwell and the Centre Exit,which had it been to the London Standard, would have had the Stairwell facing directly into the Doorwell with subseqent benefits in pasenger flow.

There would be no improvement in passenger flow in the majority of cases. Because that would require the center doors to be used a lot more than they are at the moment which I cannot see happening.

I agree that the layout should be like you say though, but as I said, that only will create benefits if the doors are actually used which they are not being nearly enough.

There are also some issues regarding the Parking Brake/Centre Door interlock,which currently means that the Parking Brake must be applied before the Centre Door can operate.

And how is such parking brake applied and what does a driver have to do to apply this, if it's simply a flick of a switch/lever and people keep forgetting it is there (although if the doors won't open until it's done, the fact the doors don't open should be a give away they missed a step), then seriously, asking drivers to remember the process to open doors, is it really that hard for them to remember?

They remember how to start a bus and program ticket machines, why can't they learn how to operate the center doors and remember how to do it? Really is their memory as full as the ticket machines?

The irony about this is we're continually hearing that Dublin Bus is losing money and needs to take cuts from it's workers, who are moaning that they are unfair, but a large number are doing nothing to make the company more efficient or improve the passenger experience which will help retain existing and attract new passengers.

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

No, I report what I see also - thanks for the sniping though.

The double doors WILL reduce it, since on the 123 example I gave yesterday, it took 2-3 minutes for people to disembark when if there was two doors it would have been far quicker. I agree that the current fare, ticketing and ticket machine set-up's don't help dwell times, but that does not justify not using the center doors. Better to reduce the dwell times by 2 minutes than not at all.

There would be no improvement in passenger flow in the majority of cases. Because that would require the center doors to be used a lot more than they are at the moment which I cannot see happening.

I agree that the layout should be like you say though, but as I said, that only will create benefits if the doors are actually used which they are not being nearly enough.

And how is such parking brake applied and what does a driver have to do to apply this, if it's simply a flick of a switch/lever and people keep forgetting it is there (although if the doors won't open until it's done, the fact the doors don't open should be a give away they missed a step),

They remember how to start a bus and program ticket machines, why can't they learn how to operate the center doors and remember how to do it?

The irony about this is we're continually hearing that Dublin Bus is losing money and needs to take cuts from it's workers, who are moaning that they are unfair, but a large number are doing nothing to make the company more efficient or improve the passenger experience.

Sniping...? Not too sure how you see my post as sniping at you ?

If so then I readily apologize....

However,as your points regarding Centre Door design and use then veer off into this kind of stuff..

.then seriously, asking drivers to remember the process to open doors, is it really that hard for them to remember?

......

Really is their memory as full as the ticket machines?

A large number are doing nothing to make the company more efficient or improve the passenger experience.....

On the 123 example,was it a GT operating it,or perhaps a VG,largely similar if viewed from the Offside ?

However,since all observations are worth having I'd certainly not criticise any customer (or Ex-Customer) for making them,negative or not.

Perhaps it may be worth submitting your views to this new channel of BAC Customer Communication ?

http://mydublinbusexperience.com/competition/

There is also the NTA,who's role in determining how Dublin's Public Transport operates cannot be downplayed either...

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/contact-us/intro-and-general-enquiries-press-contacts-and-oireachtas-liaison/

So,all in all not a totally barren scenario for a complainant ?

devnull

AlekSmart wrote: »

On the 123 example,was it a GT operating it,or perhaps a VG,largely similar if viewed from the Offside ?

No, it was a GT, I told you that I saw people get on and off, and the center doors were not used, do you really think I would make such a comment if I was unsure what type of bus it was. I saw the doors with my own eyes.

Perhaps it may be worth submitting your views to this new channel of BAC Customer Communication ?

http://mydublinbusexperience.com/competition/

And there is the charm offensive I predicted several posts back when I said:
Neverless with it being on the horizon and in the press, I'd expect the state companies to go on a charm offensive now to try and drum up support for it not to happen, as that is what normally happens in a lot of industries leading up to a new tender, so don't be surprised if this happens.

And that appears exactly what that website is designed to do. There is a lot of spin and heavy marketing PR on that website, I particularly like the use of the word "Perception" in one of the pages, saying that people are having 'perceptions' about Dublin Bus rather than actually admitting that there are changes that could be made, instead dissmissing them as perceptions rather than valid points. This does not surprise me however since on most occasions I deal with Dublin Bus something is never their fault.

The answer on the centre doors issue on the website does not bear out into reality:
"All Dublin Bus drivers have been trained in the use of the centre doors on buses introduced into the fleet last year. However, in certain cases, it may not be possible to use the centre doors as the driver cannot position the bus so these doors are near enough to the kerb to allow customers to safely disembark. Customers should then disembark via the front doors. However, this should be limited to isolated incidents and should not be the norm."

But the best one is the spin on subsidy:
"All transport operators have experienced a decline in passenger numbers since 2008 and during this time subvention to the company has decreased by €16.2 million up to 2012 and further reductions have been indicated for the coming years. Dublin Bus has continued to cut costs and achieve efficiencies as funding to the company has continued to decrease "

Of course, the company doesn't mention the fact that whilst subsidy has gone down by a large percentage, which is an accepted fact, the number of buses in the fleet has also been cut by a large amount as well. Why should the company cut the amount of work they do by 15%, and not expect the subsidy to be cut also, do you expect to have your hours cut in work, yet still get paid at the old hourly rate.

Then there is the tickets:
"For example, a Dublin Bus user can travel the entire Dublin Bus network each day for 12 non-consecutive months with the annual adult ticket for €537.60 instead of the face value cost of €1,120.00 (based on 41% tax, 7% USC and 4% PRSI)."

And really, if someone is paying 41% tax, 7% USC and 4% PRSI, is that really going to vastly effect their finances since by defnition, they will be the people who have more of a disposable income anyway.

The fact is it leads a sour taste in my mouth that Dublin Bus will run a six month project to "listen to the customer" when it appears to be nothing but a PR drive and charm offensive, and even if it was a genuine campaign, why do the company hve to launch a programme to listen to a customer for six months? Why not listen to them all the time in the past and the future.

And the list of improvements made in recent years is also laughable, since a lot of such improvements were down to work put in by Transport for Ireland, but it's the usual mantra, if something is good, we'll take the credit even if other parties contributed heavily to it but if something's bad it is fault of the other party and this is why I don't bother to complain to Dublin Bus, it's never their fault.

Of course, the fact that the PSO contract is going to be decided next year if they will keep their routes or not fully, has absloutely nothing to do with this new venture. :rolleyes:

It's all so predictable.

SandyfordGuy

aleksmart that sniping is terrible

lets face it they are all excuses

dubkin bua drivers care little for customers just about themseIves

the fact is that any publicly owned service should provode for the passengera first but dublin bus staff think that the company shoule be run for their benefit

that is what the private sector is for if you do.not.like serving the public and putting them first the public sector is not for you

i

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

No, it was a GT, I told you that I saw people get on and off, and the center doors were not used, do you really think I would make such a comment if I was unsure what type of bus it was. I saw the doors with my own eyes.

And there is the charm offensive I predicted several posts back when I said:

Neverless with it being on the horizon and in the press, I'd expect the state companies to go on a charm offensive now to try and drum up support for it not to happen, as that is what normally happens in a lot of industries leading up to a new tender, so don't be surprised if this happens.

And that appears exactly what that website is designed to do. There is a lot of spin and heavy marketing PR on that website, I particularly like the use of the word "Perception" in one of the pages, saying that people are having 'perceptions' about Dublin Bus rather than actually admitting that there are changes that could be made, instead dissmissing them as perceptions rather than valid points. This does not surprise me however since on most occasions I deal with Dublin Bus something is never their fault.

The answer on the centre doors issue on the website does not bear out into reality:

"All Dublin Bus drivers have been trained in the use of the centre doors on buses introduced into the fleet last year. However, in certain cases, it may not be possible to use the centre doors as the driver cannot position the bus so these doors are near enough to the kerb to allow customers to safely disembark. Customers should then disembark via the front doors. However, this should be limited to isolated incidents and should not be the norm."

But the best one is the spin on subsidy:
"All transport operators have experienced a decline in passenger numbers since 2008 and during this time subvention to the company has decreased by €16.2 million up to 2012 and further reductions have been indicated for the coming years. Dublin Bus has continued to cut costs and achieve efficiencies as funding to the company has continued to decrease "

Of course, the company doesn't mention the fact that whilst subsidy has gone down by a large percentage, which is an accepted fact, the number of buses in the fleet has also been cut by a large amount as well. Why should the company cut the amount of work they do by 15%, and not expect the subsidy to be cut also, do you expect to have your hours cut in work, yet still get paid at the old hourly rate.

Then there is the tickets:
"For example, a Dublin Bus user can travel the entire Dublin Bus network each day for 12 non-consecutive months with the annual adult ticket for €537.60 instead of the face value cost of €1,120.00 (based on 41% tax, 7% USC and 4% PRSI)."

And really, if someone is paying 41% tax, 7% USC and 4% PRSI, is that really going to vastly effect their finances since by defnition, they will be the people who have more of a disposable income anyway.

The fact is it leads a sour taste in my mouth that Dublin Bus will run a six month project to "listen to the customer" when it appears to be nothing but a PR drive and charm offensive, and even if it was a genuine campaign, why do the company hve to launch a programme to listen to a customer for six months? Why not listen to them all the time in the past and the future.

And the list of improvements made in recent years is also laughable, since a lot of such improvements were down to work put in by Transport for Ireland, but it's the usual mantra, if something is good, we'll take the credit even if other parties contributed heavily to it but if something's bad it is fault of the other party and this is why I don't bother to complain to Dublin Bus, it's never their fault.

Of course, the fact that the PSO contract is going to be decided next year if they will keep their routes or not fully, has absloutely nothing to do with this new venture. :rolleyes:

It's all so predictable.

A veritable and comprehensive tour-de force of strongly felt negativity,all then neatly presented as direct evidence of malicious intent on the part of BAC staff and management.

Quite obviously BAC has/is not meeting the requirements of some,perhaps many of it's customers..however it's a funny old world out there all the same,and I'm confident that I manage a good average in that regard with the several hundred individuals I will deal with today,and every day.

Listening to Customers is a good principle of itself,however it is only part of the bigger picture.

Some I win,some I lose...and some I will always lose with.

You are at least correct on the PSO bit

The "answer" on the Centre Door does indeed bear out the reality for me and many other drivers,however I somehow suspect that would not have much bearing upon your opinion ?

On the final predictability bit,however,I readily agree.

AlekSmart

SandyfordGuy wrote: »

aleksmart that sniping is terrible

Lets face it they are all excuses

Dubkin bus drivers care little for customers just about themseIves

The fact is that any publicly owned service should provide for the passengers first but dublin bus staff think that the company shoule be run for their benefit

That is what the private sector is for if you do.not.like serving the public and putting them first the public sector is not for you

i

That's not a problem SandyfordGuy,as with devnull and anybody else,you're entitled to free expression....people do tend to care about themselves....even Busdrivers.

Victor

OK guys, back on topic. Alek, your post could have been construed that way easily.

Moderator

AlekSmart

Victor wrote: »

OK guys, back on topic. Alek, your post could have been construed that way easily.

Moderator

Thank you Victor,it's a bolded post so has to be noted.

So,can we take it therefore that this assertion can be construed less easily in a different manner ?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85673543&postcount=41

Devnull: Not sure why Donnybrook are getting GT's, seeing that they never use the center doors on any of their routes from what I have seen. I know the old chestnut about them being lined up is often spouted, but you can have a bus perfectly lined up and center doors will still not be used.

My point is that GT Centre Doors ARE being used,and on as many routes as the GT type appear on.

The original assertion is untrue and merited correction surely ?

John Boye's post re his 54A experiences
(http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85674553&postcount=42) confirm this reality,and I'm very happy to see that this is now recognized

I would describe it more as crossfire than sniping....:p

dfx-

Are people still giving out about the middle doors?

Is there going to be 12 years+ of this..

BuffyBot

Folks, if you have a problem with a post, report it. Sniping, and accusations of sniping just derail the thread and aren't appropriate.

lucernarian

Just from seeing GT90 on the 46As yesterday, I observed the centre doors in use. So hopefully nothing more need be said about Donnybrook (Donnybrook 2 at least?) Can't remember which route operates out of "1" or "2"

devnull

Never was maybe an exaggeration, but almost every working day I see the 4 and the 7 and the drivers on the former seem to be using the doors much more than the ones on the 7 in my experience. If it is safe to do so, the doors should be operated, end of story.

joegriffinjnr

Simple.. The NTA should take THEIR buses back and give them to an operator that will use the center doors.

davidlacey

Why do many of the drivers refuse to use them, are they that desperate for thanks of ppl when they get off?

rx8

Apparently, the next batch that are going to Ringsend, will be going on the 150.

Joshycat

rx8 wrote: »

Apparently, the next batch that are going to Ringsend, will be going on the 150.

Oh sweet dear jesus! They will be ruined in no time :mad:

Trebor176

I don't know about the 150, but the 49 seems to be earmarked to get them, and perhaps the remainder going on the 1, and perhaps the 150. But, the route certainly won't be fully converted. As it is, the 49 has some GTs allocated to it, so it would make sense to fully convert it with the new arrivals.