Is Communism the way forward..

Viventum

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

P_1

Nyet tovarishch

Celly Smunt

Yes,lets build an economy on turf and potatoes for everybody to excel in.

Links234

the problem is corruption and criminals in the system, switch to a different system, you've still got the same problems.

WumBuster

yes, but i think the previous system used in USSR was flawed on many levels and was not real communism. Capitalist society only gives rise uneven class structures, wealth distribution and poverty.I think capitalism will die out once the worlds major religions lose influence.

mikemac1

Links234 wrote: »

the problem is corruption and criminals in the system, switch to a different system, you've still got the same problems.

We will setup a gulag on Spike Island

Problem solved

errlloyd

Possibly the only suggestion worse than

"Is there anything to be said for another cup of tea?"

Jonny7

Viventum wrote: »

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

Out of 200 countries, there are only two true Communist nations left - both are pretty ****ty.

It's a broken system that ends up with everyone being equal alright, equally poor.

keelanj69

I'd rather a bank scandel over a Show Trial. Don't know about you, OP.

Capt'n Midnight

'What is the difference between communism and capitalism?'

'Capitalism is the exploitation of man by man; communism is the exact opposite.'

wretcheddomain

No, It's the way backward, didn't you read the sign?

camel jockey

Viventum wrote: »

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

You clearly know nothing about communism. 'Everyone is equal' indeed - tell that to the members of the politburo and their families and cronies.

Maudi

WumBuster wrote: »

yes, but i think the previous system used in USSR was flawed on many levels and was not real communism. Capitalist society only gives rise uneven class structures, wealth distribution and poverty.I think capitalism will die out once the worlds major religions lose influence.

Please God.

camel jockey

WumBuster wrote: »

yes, but i think the previous system used in USSR was flawed on many levels and was not real communism. Capitalist society only gives rise uneven class structures, wealth distribution and poverty.I think capitalism will die out once the worlds major religions lose influence.

Any examples of 'real communism' then?

The answer to socialising private debt is more socialism? No

Ruudi_Mentari

so quit stalin'

Yeah, communism works really well....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWTFG3J1CP8

padd b1975

I can't afford to be a communist.

dan1895

camel jockey wrote: »

You clearly know nothing about communism. 'Everyone is equal' indeed - tell that to the members of the politburo and their families and cronies.

Yes but some are more equal than others.

CruelCoin

Viventum wrote: »

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

You will never, ever develop a system where a doctor and a bin-man are equal in all things.

If they were, the doctor would leave the fuggin country.

That's it in a nutshell.

camel jockey

CruelCoin wrote: »

You will never, ever develop a system where a doctor and a bin-man are equal in all things.

If they were, the doctor would leave the fuggin country.

That's it in a nutshell.

First step would be to build a 20 foot wall with minefields and guard towers - to keep everyone in.

Chairman Meow

It certainly worked out great for Cambodia, Communist Russia, Vietnam and China. What could possibly go wrong?

old_aussie

Is Communism the way forward..

It is if you want to have a dumbed down work force, controlled by the few.

Hmmm, seems like a few countries have gone communist, except by their religious name.

XXXXX the new communists.

Capt'n Midnight

If you put I]insert government type here[/I in charge of the Sahara Desert, it would be OK for the first five years but then there'd be a shortage of sand.

conorhal

WumBuster wrote: »

yes, but i think the previous system used in USSR was flawed on many levels and was not real communism. Capitalist society only gives rise uneven class structures, wealth distribution and poverty.I think capitalism will die out once the worlds major religions lose influence.

Ah, the old 'it wasn't real communism chestnut'!

'Real communism' is an ideological state, not a real one. The soviet union was the inevitable result of was happens when that ideology meets reality.

Nobody is ever likely to achive the nirvana of a real communist state that turns out to be anything less then a nightmare, any more then a 'real capitalist state' would be if libertarian wingnuts got their way.

Marx, for all his diatribes against the evils of capitalism in Das Capital, never actaully proposes in the course of his works a single sentence on how an alternative model might work, he was great at highlighting the evils of capitalism, but like many an unreconstructed Marxist today, rather short on workable alternatives.
'From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs' is a nice idea in principle, but how does it work in practice?
More to the point, who decides on my abilities, and who determines my needs?
Whatever else can be said about capitalism, it doesn't tell people what they are or are not entitled to achieve.
The truth of the matter is that it was capitalism, not communism that created a middle class and lifted far more people out of poverty in the west then communism ever manged to.

The problem with capitalism AND communism for that matter is when the state, who's primary concern should be the welfare of it's citizens gets into bed with economic ideology, if our government had been more concerned with the society it was building rather then the number of houses it was building we might not be in the trouble we are in today. It's why I get enfuriated whenever I hear government ministers talking about Ireland Inc. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A BLOODY CORPORATION! Nor do I want to live under Gilmore and Quinn's 'ideology of equal outcomes', the tyrrany of the lowest common denominator that loathes excelence and achievement.

michael.dublin

Is Communism the way forward..

hmmmm only if you have money, then communism the way forward..

nucker

Viventum wrote: »

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

Did communism stop corruption in the Soviet Union?

Fair enough, get rid of the corruption that was rife in the Soviet Union, and you have a good system. But communism thinks that getting rid of religion is a good thing. There is a lot of good things that religion has brought to humanity

A Primal Nut

Viventum wrote: »

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

What's so great and noble about equality? I'd rather live in a country with a few poor people, mostly middle class people and a few rich people than a country where everyone is equally poor.

The other problem with equality is that not only are you born equal, you also die equal; doesn't matter how hard you work or what you're ambitions are; you're ability to succeed is severely restricted in a communist society.

Most of the progress in improving people's living standards in the 20th century has been due to technology and science, not politics. And most of the developments in this century will be as a result of technology and science, not politics. And even Che Guevara admitted Communism would have to depend on Capitalist countries for technological improvements.

camel jockey

nucker wrote: »

Did communism stop corruption in the Soviet Union?

Fair enough, get rid of the corruption that was rife in the Soviet Union, and you have a good system. But communism thinks that getting rid of religion is a good thing. There is a lot of good things that religion has brought to humanity

In what way was it a 'good system'?

nucker

camel jockey wrote: »

In what way was it a 'good system'?

Where it works for everyone

seamus

Communism, like anarchy, is an perfectionist ideology which cannot work in real terms because it expects that all participants will respect and adhere to the rules of that system. In reality humans are selfish and corruptible and will bend or break rules if the gain for themselves personally is high.

Capitalism at a base levels works because it so closely models the normal human behaviour (as we know it). The socialist capitalist hybrid that a lot of european countries run also works well because those at the top still make good gains, but so do the rest of the population, so it enjoys the support of everyone.

Worth noting that capitalist human behaviour may be a social evolutionary trait specific to those of european origin, rather than an inherent. While it was long believed that the selfish nature of the human being was an instinctual animalistic trait, some psychological/sociological experiments with indigenous populations of non-european origin brought up surprising results where they didn't try to screw over the other person and displayed very different risk/reward behaviours to americans and europeans.

The fact that capitalism has become so successful and rampant across populations may be an indication that for the population as a whole it is the most beneficial framework (and therefore the most evolutionarily successful), even if on an individual level it's exceptionally selfish.

TwoShedsJackson

WumBuster wrote: »

yes, but i think the previous system used in USSR was flawed on many levels and was not real communism. Capitalist society only gives rise uneven class structures, wealth distribution and poverty.I think capitalism will die out once the worlds major religions lose influence.

The problem with the system, like all political systems, is that humans were involved in running it. Once those ****e-hawks get involved 'ideals' go out the window in favour of greed, sooner or later. Usually sooner.

rossie1977

Chairman Meow wrote: »

It certainly worked out great for Cambodia, Communist Russia, Vietnam and China. What could possibly go wrong?

all authoritarian regimes, communism can exist without authoritarianism

Gbear

rossie1977 wrote: »

all authoritarian regimes, communism can exist without authoritarianism

It really can't.

You're putting all the power into the hands of the government. That can only end one way.

At least with ****ty corporations, the influence is split between them and they're often competing with one another.

RoyalMarine

We don't need communism. We need a working legal system to properly bring those guilty people / bastards to justice. This will act as a deterrent for future politicians.

Suryavarman

rossie1977 wrote: »

all authoritarian regimes, communism can exist without authoritarianism

So you expect that the people that want complete control over your economic activities are suddenly going to leave you alone when it comes to personal life?

Tyranny is the inevitable result of communism. It's completely unavoidable.

seamus

rossie1977 wrote: »

all authoritarian regimes, communism can exist without authoritarianism

Only in ideological terms. It's the implementation that fncks it up. As you struggle to maintain a communist society, you find that you require authoritarian controls in place which increase in severity as time goes on.

Mike 1972

The biggest trouble with communism is that the odds are heavily sacked againt a succesful revolution pretty much everywhere.

Therefore in order for such a revolution to succeed it needs to be lead by a particularly ruthless bastard.

Therein lies the problem.

Dartz

Russia was never Communist.

Unfortunately,most Communist revolutions fail when the revolution becomes a regime. Human imposed power-structures eventually turn around to become self-serving, barring the path to true Communism as this would lead to their own destruction. The USSR had the nomenklatura as the example. And the ossifying old men who clung on to power in the Kremlin eventually led to the corrosion of the whole Soviet System. The dynamism that drove the development cool **** like Ekranoplans and Sputnik died.

Then a power plant blew up, the shelves were restructure to be bare and the whole lot just sort of said '**** it'.

Still. Better than this ****. The shelves are full, but be ****ed if half the country can't scrounge up the money to pay for it.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

Viventum wrote: »

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

A certain way to ensure there is no innovation, no incentive to be productive or to be inventive.
A Communist after all is someone with nothing who wants to share it with everyone!

V4Voluntary

A Libertarian would sort this mess out in a week.

Our gombeens are trying desperately to keep the old boys club together.

Carnegie

Salary caps are the way to go. Idiots like David Drumm should not be earning salaries of millions of euros a year. I've seen it all the time in companies I have worked in where complete chancers are earning obscene salaries that they don't deserve.

Suryavarman

Dartz wrote: »

Russia was never Communist.

Unfortunately,most Communist revolutions fail when the revolution becomes a regime. Human imposed power-structures eventually turn around to become self-serving, barring the path to true Communism as this would lead to their own destruction. The USSR had the nomenklatura as the example. And the ossifying old men who clung on to power in the Kremlin eventually led to the corrosion of the whole Soviet System. The dynamism that drove the development cool **** like Ekranoplans and Sputnik died.

Then a power plant blew up, the shelves were restructure to be bare and the whole lot just sort of said '**** it'.

Still. Better than this ****. The shelves are full, but be ****ed if half the country can't scrounge up the money to pay for it.

The price of toilet roll in this country really is outrageous.

Judgement Day

The differences between the various political systems, for the benefit of the OP, from a newspaper cutting given to me by a wise man in County Kerry, some thirty five years ago.

"The Man of Two Cows"

Socialism is when you have two cows, and give one to your neighbour.

Communism is when you have two cows, and the State takes both and gives you milk.

Fascism is when you have two cows, and the State takes both and sells you milk.

Nazism is when you have two cows, and the State takes both and shoots you.

Capitalism is when you have two cows, sell one and buy a bull.

Bureaucracy is when you have two cows, and the State takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain.

Freddy Smelly

Viventum wrote: »

We've had bank scandals, hosptial closures and people being pulled from bogs for nothing. Rich people grow richer. The rest of us get poorer.

Is there a future where people can be born knowing they can be an equal to everyone? Everyone is equal and contributes to the future.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVdVTVR-j0Q

Whats stopping us? Why is being a believer in Socialism so bad these days?

the russians tried it... didnt work

the chinese tried it... only the rich got richer

the cubans tried... only castro got rich

ScumLord

WumBuster wrote: »

Capitalist society only gives rise uneven class structures, wealth distribution and poverty.

I don't really think that's capitalism's fault, it's just nature, some creatures find better ways of doing things and excel, the handy thing about human society is when we see someone else excelling we can just copy them instead of being left behind trying to evolve.

I think capitalism isn't really a system, but trade is a fundamental part of human society. Trade has been what encouraged humans to travel and interact with other people, it's been there from the very beginning of humanity and it's what separated us from the likes of the neanderthal.

If you think about your trading activity it's probably one of the most social activities you do. It encourages you to travel for deals, you probably spend a percentage of you day conversing with others about trade. With the decline of religion it's probably one of few fundamental social behaviours we still do from prehistoric times.

While I'm very much in the camp of the community comes first and I hate the consumerist society we live in today I can't get around the fact humans need to trade as much as birds needs to sing in the morning and there has to be a market or humans can't be humans.

I think we can have a much safer market, I think necessities like food shouldn't be played with on a market and we need to rework the market so that it doesn't demand constant growth to be successful.

Our economies and markets are made up, we can set whatever rules we want so that wouldn't be a problem. You won't convince the people creaming the current markets to change though.

A Primal Nut

Dartz wrote: »

Still. Better than this ****. The shelves are full, but be ****ed if half the country can't scrounge up the money to pay for it.

That's not true at all though, and sounds like communist propaganda against capitalist countries.

epicmoe

Links234 wrote: »

the problem is corruption and criminals in the system, switch to a different system, you've still got the same problems.

^^ THIS! the only way, IMO, for any kind of political structure to work anything close to unhindered, is if they are much much smaller, localised systems.

ScumLord

epicmoe wrote: »

^^ THIS! the only way, IMO, for any kind of political structure to work anything close to unhindered, is if they are much much smaller, localised systems.

People need to have proper education to go with it. Children should be taught how to be a good person rather than just readied for the workplace.

By good person I don't mean morally either. They should be taught how to be good at being a civilised human being. How to interact with people, how to use politics to resolve conflict, how to evaluate information. We have pretty much no political teachings in this country, how are we supposed to find good politicians if we're not educating any?

Cody Pomeray

I do not believe in textbook Marxism because I do not believe in the monopolization of political and economic power.

The reason I do not believe in the monopolization of political and economic power is because it leads to the inevitable exploitation of human beings, and the destruction of their natural rights.

And only in one place has the destruction of man's rights under Communism been surpassed - and that is the destruction of man's rights in the capitalist society.

Capitalism is a fate worse than communism because its goals, offences, and denial of natural, or human, rights are both random and guaranteed.

Not for everyone, of course. Those who benefit under capitalism are the least likely to find it offensive. They are the people in the lifeboats. Why on earth would most of the people in the lifeboats object?

Jonny7

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

And only in one place has the destruction of man's rights under Communism been surpassed - and that is the destruction of man's rights in the capitalist society.

ookkaay, so which unalienable rights has capitalist society destroyed?