South Africa ready for ethnic cleansing when Mandela dies?

Hitchens

It has all the signs if reports from the region are to be believed.

A white farmer murdered yesterday in front of his wife and child. The perps were a group of black men allegedly.

Nelson's passing could be the trigger for a blood fest, hopefully not but it could happen.

Mint Sauce

Or a coincidence?

Conspiracy theories----> http://touch.boards.ie/forum/576

smcgiff

Unlikely I'd say... It pretty much happened in Zimbabwe though.

6541

I have heard loads of talk about this. I know most Jewish South Africans have left.

mike65

As I said in the Mandela death watch thread, there is a good chance in 15 years SA will be like Zimbabwe in the 90s. Just takes one party rule, a corrupt leader and some rabble rousing.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Conspiracy theories----> http://touch.boards.ie/forum/576

Please if there is a god or mod out there. Implement an instant ban to people who use this reply. I admit when i first heard it 5 years ago it was funny, but after the 5000 time its just annoying .

SeanW

Deleted User wrote: »

Please if there is a god or mod out there. Implement an instant ban to people who use this reply. I admit when i first heard it 5 years ago it was funny, but after the 5000 time its just annoying .

Sometimes it's warranted, i.e. when people actually derail threads with conspiracy theories. But in this case, you're right, it's out of order.

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

Sometimes it's warranted, i.e. when people actually derail threads with conspiracy theories. But in this case, you're right, it's out of order.

And this idea of (south africa going to rot because an old man who can't speak in public because of old age, will soon not be able to speak in public because of death), isn't a conspiracy theory because................?

Anyways, if it pisses you off then "wah". (Not wha, wah, as in crybaby)

SeanW

mike65 wrote: »

As I said in the Mandela death watch thread, there is a good chance in 15 years SA will be like Zimbabwe in the 90s

One party rule: check.
A corrupt leader. Sort of check, there have been some terrible politicians in office there since Nelson M. left the presidency.
Rabble rousing. Check. The former ANC Youth League president (once tipped to be a future president) was one Julius Malema. His favourite song was "Shoot the Boer." He also gave some fiery speeches in Zimbabwe to ZANU-PF supporters that would likely make the Black Panthers look timid by comparison.

If someone like him ever gets power in South Africa, heaven help all the people of that country - black and white alike.

mentalist101

They should do as they like and watch South Africa turn from a booming economy to a cesspit of stupidity and Violence. You would think they would have learned from Zimbabwe but if they are not smart enough too, then their loss.

South Africa belongs to the white as well as the black in the country, its stupid to think otherwise.

SeanW

Deleted User wrote: »

And this idea of (south africa going to rot because an old man who can't speak in public because of old age, will soon not be able to speak in public because of death), isn't a conspiracy theory because................?

Anyways, if it pisses you off then "wah". (Not wha, wah, as in crybaby)

Because if I understand the thought process correctly, Nelson Mandela is a force for moderation and harmony. When he's gone and South Africans have only racial figures like Julius Malema for black South Africans and stories about the latest farmer to have been murdered for white South Africans, it might not be pretty.

SeanW

Deleted User wrote: »

And this idea of (south africa going to rot because an old man who can't speak in public because of old age, will soon not be able to speak in public because of death), isn't a conspiracy theory because................?

Anyways, if it pisses you off then "wah". (Not wha, wah, as in crybaby)

Wow, that was mature. :rolleyes:

By the way, the mods will decide if this thread is discussing a conspiracy theory in which case they will move it.

Until then (stooping unfortunately to your level of petty childishness)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CloUVHuWMI4

SeanW

SeanW wrote: »

Wow, that was mature. :rolleyes:

By the way, the mods will decide if this thread is discussing a conspiracy theory in which case they will move it.

Until then (stooping unfortunately to your level of petty childishness)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CloUVHuWMI4

Well, that was more for the fella posting behind you than you. At least you had the courtesy of explaining the point being made, and a valid point it is.

So, re: the video, eh.....

Yore Ma. :PAC:

Amirani

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yore Ma. :PAC:

Bad move there.

Hitchens

Jaysus, some family of hyenas poor 'oul Nelson has :eek:

Cody Pomeray

Hitchens wrote: »

It has all the signs if reports from the region are to be believed.

A white farmer murdered yesterday in front of his wife and child.

Ok... but what are the signs of some systemic ethnic cleansing?

Hitchens

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Ok... but what are the signs of some systemic ethnic cleansing?

"In July of 2012, Dr. Gregory Stanton, head of the nonprofit group Genocide Watch, - conducted a fact-finding mission in South Africa. He concluded that there is a coordinated campaign of genocide being conducted against white farmers, known as Boers. “The farm murders, we have become convinced, are not accidental,” Stanton contended. “It was very clear that the massacres were not common crimes,” he added—especially because of the absolute barbarity used against the victims. “We don’t know exactly who is planning them yet, but what we are calling for is an international investigation,” he added.

The number of farm murders, or “plaasmoorde” as it is called in Afrikaans, is staggering. Over the last decade, it is estimated that at least 3000 Boers have been killed. Estimating the number of murders is necessary because the ANC has banned crime statistics from being compiled, claiming they scare off foreign investment. Moreover, the world knows little about the savagery that accompanies those killings. Many victims, including women and infant children, are raped or tortured before they are killed. Some have boiling water poured down their throats, some are burned with hot pokers, and some are hacked to death with machetes, or disemboweled. Several others have been tied to their own cars and dragged for miles."

Cody Pomeray

Hitchens wrote: »

"In July of 2012, Dr. Gregory Stanton, head of the nonprofit group Genocide Watch, - conducted a fact-finding mission in South Africa. He concluded that there is a coordinated campaign of genocide being conducted against white farmers, known as Boers. “The farm murders, we have become convinced, are not accidental,” Stanton contended. “It was very clear that the massacres were not common crimes,” he added—especially because of the absolute barbarity used against the victims. “We don’t know exactly who is planning them yet, but what we are calling for is an international investigation,” he added.

Great. Can I have the link address to the Genocide Watch article?
I noticed you didn't attach it, and one of the google results seemed to be stormfront and some other nutjobs.

Wattle

It may happen in farming areas but ethnic cleansing the whole of the country? No chance. There is more integration now. It's not perfect but I don't see an imminent bloodbath.

Hitchens

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Great. Can I have the link address to the Genocide Watch article?
I noticed you didn't attach it, and one of the google results seemed to be stormfront and some other nutjobs.

Do you seriously think I made it up?

Cody Pomeray

Hitchens wrote: »

Do you seriously think I made it up?

No... I googled it and I just got a load of off the wall websites like stormfront and jihad watch.

Obviously you got it from the Irish Times or somewhere reputable... just looking for a reputable link, that's all.

super_furry

Hitchens wrote: »

A white farmer murdered yesterday in front of his wife and child. The perps were a group of black men allegedly.

How many black people were murdered in South Africa yesterday?

Poo Fingers

Don't be silly. Racism doesn't count when it's against white people.

greendom

There may continúe to be isolated murders but there is no reason to believe
that the death of Mandela will cause these to increase, never mind turn into a full blown genocide

0066ad

super_furry wrote: »

How many black people were murdered in South Africa yesterday?

I can't find any news articles from yesterday of any blacks in South Africa, killed
by a group of white farmers, can you?

Clandestine

White genocide is coming to South Africa, mark my words.

Hitchens

Hitchens wrote: »

Do you seriously think I made it up?

Until you post a link to it, yes I do.

matthew8

I doubt it. In Zimbabwe the whites were at most 4%, a very small minority. In South Africa, whites are nearly at 9% and the Afrikaner speaking "Coloureds" are also nearly at 9%, totalling around 9 million European language speaking people together. This gives them a much bigger voice inside the country and parliament than Rhodesians had.

The murder of Boer farmers is massively unfortunate, especially considering many killings are politically motivated without actually taking anything. However, crime is rampant in SA and I would guess the blacks are no better off and are probably bigger victims of crimes because they can't pay private security firms.

KingOfFairview

No, this is a bizarre fantasy entertained by racist imbeciles who wish to whip up trouble. Link to that report please

Wattle

If ethnic cleansing did start there would probably be a boycott organised similar to the ones that happened during apartheid. There would also be an inevitable backlash from the international community. I just can't see South Africa regressing like that.

super_furry

0066ad wrote: »

I can't find any news articles from yesterday of any blacks in South Africa, killed
by a group of white farmers, can you?

Nope. Can't find any news articles from yesterday of any whites in South Africa, killed by a group of black farmers either.

token101

KingOfFairview wrote: »

No, this is a bizarre fantasy entertained by racist imbeciles who wish to whip up trouble. Link to that report please

http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

KingOfFairview

token101 wrote: »

http://www.genocidewatch.org/southafrica.html

I can't see the report at that link, I do notice the article on the front page conspicuously says "alleged genocide" (inverted commas not mine)

JONJO THE MISER

Hitchens wrote: »

It has all the signs if reports from the region are to be believed.

A white farmer murdered yesterday in front of his wife and child. The perps were a group of black men allegedly.

Nelson's passing could be the trigger for a blood fest, hopefully not but it could happen.

I have actually heard this from a lot of white south Africans down the years, that there will be big trouble when Mandela dies, a lot of white south Africans have been stock piling guns for the trouble ahead.

token101

KingOfFairview wrote: »

I can't see the report at that link, I do notice the article on the front page conspicuously says "alleged genocide" (inverted commas not mine)

I wasn't linking to any report really, just trying to point your notion that it's a "racist fantasy" is a bit daft. It's an international organisation saying there's a problem and calling it a "racist fantasy" only reinforces the idea that people are covering their ears to it.

dfx-

smcgiff wrote: »

Unlikely I'd say... It pretty much happened in Zimbabwe though.

South Africa may be too important to the continent for it to be allowed to happen to that extent.

Though it does look likely.

super_furry

token101 wrote: »

I wasn't linking to any report really, just trying to point your notion that it's a "racist fantasy" is a bit daft. It's an international organisation saying there's a problem and calling it a "racist fantasy" only reinforces the idea that people are covering their ears to it.

http://www.genocidewatch.org/ireland.html

http://www.genocidewatch.org/unitedkingdom.html

Just because there's a section on South Africa doesn't mean that it isn't a racist fantasy.

seanaway

I ran a course a few years ago in Dublin. A white SA guy was on it.

A friend of mine was moving there so I asked him what it was like.

His answer floored me. He came to Ireland because he had had a small specialist printing business in SA.

One day the 'government' came to him and told him he had to take on (I can't remember the exact number) 1-3 black people. He said he had a full staff. 'Then fire the white ones' was the reply.

He did as he was told before he was to have been shut down. Then shut the business before he went belly up.

He begged to be allowed to rehire the specialist staff but was told no - those jobs were now for black SA's.

This isn't a racist comment - just a comment about what I have heard from a white SA who owned a business.

I've never been there and probably won't ever go but that's my 2 cent's worth.

Oh, yes. This was during the Mandela regime period.

Jacovs

seanaway wrote: »

I ran a course a few years ago in Dublin. A white SA guy was on it.

A friend of mine was moving there so I asked him what it was like.

His answer floored me. He came to Ireland because he had had a small specialist printing business in SA.

One day the 'government' came to him and told him he had to take on (I can't remember the exact number) 1-3 black people. He said he had a full staff. 'Then fire the white ones' was the reply.

He did as he was told before he was to have been shut down. Then shut the business before he went belly up.

He begged to be allowed to rehire the specialist staff but was told no - those jobs were now for black SA's.

This isn't a racist comment - just a comment about what I have heard from a white SA who owned a business.

I've never been there and probably won't ever go but that's my 2 cent's worth.

Oh, yes. This was during the Mandela regime period.

Thats called BBBEE, or more commonly just known as BEE.

woodoo

seanaway wrote: »

I ran a course a few years ago in Dublin. A white SA guy was on it.

A friend of mine was moving there so I asked him what it was like.

His answer floored me. He came to Ireland because he had had a small specialist printing business in SA.

One day the 'government' came to him and told him he had to take on (I can't remember the exact number) 1-3 black people. He said he had a full staff. 'Then fire the white ones' was the reply.

He did as he was told before he was to have been shut down. Then shut the business before he went belly up.

He begged to be allowed to rehire the specialist staff but was told no - those jobs were now for black SA's.

This isn't a racist comment - just a comment about what I have heard from a white SA who owned a business.

I've never been there and probably won't ever go but that's my 2 cent's worth.

Oh, yes. This was during the Mandela regime period.

Shocking. I think if it gets bad european countries should offer white south Africans asylum.

Augmerson

Clandestine wrote: »

White genocide is coming to South Africa, mark my words.

Did they have it coming you think?

Dubl07

Augmerson wrote: »

Did they have it coming you think?

Are you insane? That's like blaming our generation here for atrocities committed in the 60's to 70's.

Sgt Hartman

Augmerson wrote: »

Did they have it coming you think?

Moronic post

Cody Pomeray

seanaway wrote: »

I ran a course a few years ago in Dublin. A white SA guy was on it.

A friend of mine was moving there so I asked him what it was like.

His answer floored me. He came to Ireland because he had had a small specialist printing business in SA.

One day the 'government' came to him and told him he had to take on (I can't remember the exact number) 1-3 black people. He said he had a full staff. 'Then fire the white ones' was the reply.

He did as he was told before he was to have been shut down. Then shut the business before he went belly up.

He begged to be allowed to rehire the specialist staff but was told no - those jobs were now for black SA's.

This isn't a racist comment - just a comment about what I have heard from a white SA who owned a business.

I've never been there and probably won't ever go but that's my 2 cent's worth.

Oh, yes. This was during the Mandela regime period.

To be honest I have a south african partner and all I would say is that, with some South Africans and especially the Cape Dutch, feelings get too heated to have a rational conversation about black politics. There are huge problems with governance in SA, but to to blindly take one sides word for what's going on out there is not to get an accurate account, these views are often tantamount to extreme racial bias, even from people you would expect to be quite openminded.

T-Maxx

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

To be honest I have a south african partner and all I would say is that, with some South Africans and especially the Cape Dutch, feelings get too heated to have a rational conversation about black politics. There are huge problems with governance in SA, but to to blindly take one sides word for what's going on out there is not to get an accurate account, these views are often tantamount to extreme racial bias, even from people you would expect to be quite openminded.

What is a "Cape Dutch"?

BEE is very real. To dismiss it as racial bias is ignorant.

Augmerson

Dubl07 wrote: »

Are you insane? That's like blaming our generation here for atrocities committed in the 60's to 70's.

I don't think they're the same, you can't compare apartheid policies with the conflict in the North. I asked the poster, who seems to think that a white genocide is a very real possibility, if he/she thought that the whites had reaped what they had sown.

I'm fairly neutral on this whole topic by the way, but it has to be said that apartheid is to blame for a lot of South Africa's problems, regardless of what generation of people are in power. We are only ....what? 25-30 years post Apartheid? Is that a correct figure? Not sure.

Jacovs

T-Maxx wrote: »

What is a "Cape Dutch"?

BEE is very real. To dismiss it as racial bias is ignorant.

Cape Dutch, probably like myself. Dutch descendant from the Cape.

Augmerson wrote: »

We are only ....what? 25-30 years post Apartheid? Is that a correct figure? Not sure.

Negotiations started 1990, offically ended with the election in 1994.
20 years closer to the mark.

Cody Pomeray

T-Maxx wrote: »

What is a "Cape Dutch"?

I'm using it as short hand for the long established white population of the western cape in particular, to mark them out from British expats or recent white newcomers. There is a perception that this long established white population have been particularly vulnerable to political turmoil in SA down the years.

BEE is very real. To dismiss it as racial bias is ignorant.

I'm not dismissing BEE at all, I think that executed properly it makes perfect sense. I don't know where you're getting this notion that I dismissed it. I just suggested that a poster reserves judgement when taking the word of one side over the other side in a very divided society, where there is strong residual racial resentment.

Hitchens

this could be the start of something very bad now, with Nelson gone

Nodin

Hitchens wrote: »

this could be the start of something very bad now, with Nelson gone

Yes, because previous to his death he toured the country stopping the ethnic cleansing.