Crime rates are dropping, CSO

Sir Humphrey Appleby

So there you have it folks, rates for almost all types of crime dropped in the 12 months to March 2013.
Maybe those who persist in peddling the myth that our country is crime ridden and unsafe will give us a break from the scaremongering now.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0628/459431-cso-crime-statistics/

snubbleste

More like less Garda to investigate crimes and people not bothering to report crimes.

Gumbi

snubbleste wrote: »

More like less Garda to investigate crimes and people not bothering to report crimes.

Do you have evidence to support that secon assertion?

Frank Black

But, but, but, what about all the scumbags on the Luas line, and the knackers and the forren nationals?

caff

I would imagine that for the likes of mobile phone theft people only report it if it was insured. No chance of getting the phone back so people think what is the point?

Frosty McSnowballs

Sure aren't we back in recession now?

Urge to steal................rising!

SEPT 23 1989

Crime has been dropping in western europe for the last 15 years

the media are slow to pick this up

d2ww

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

Sure aren't we back in recession now?

Urge to steel................rising!

Carbon or stainless?

Sergeant

snubbleste wrote: »

More like less Garda to investigate crimes and people not bothering to report crimes.

Someone murdered my neighbour last month, but the family didn't bother to report it as they knew the Gardaí are under pressure.

Marsden

I'm just back from the Joy, time to buck this trend and start crime spiralling. I'm gonna download so many episodes of game of thrones it'll make Sean Beans crown spin.

Frosty McSnowballs

d2ww wrote: »

Carbon or stainless?

Ah fcuk!

Il be watching you. I will get my revenge in this thread or the next. :pac:

Valetta

A lot of crimes goes undetected.

There was a vicious assault on innocent people around the Stephens Green area in 2008, but it's only coming to light now.

Sir Humphrey Appleby

snubbleste wrote: »

More like less Garda to investigate crimes and people not bothering to report crimes.

Silly comment, the statistics refer to reported crimes, once it is reported it registers on the stats. numbers of Gardai don't affect the stats.

jake_the_muss

Sergeant wrote: »

Someone murdered my neighbour last month, but the family didn't bother to report it as they knew the Gardaí are under pressure.

I was arrested two years ago for buying a can of coke in a newsagents

I guess they are less ran of their feet in some parts of the country :rolleyes:

daheff

All this report shows is that the number of reported crimes have dropped. It doesnt necessarily mean crime is dropping (or falling). It just means the number of recorded crimes has decrease. This is something that people regularily dont understand when looking at stats like this.

Frank Black

daheff wrote: »

All this report shows is that the number of reported crimes have dropped. It doesnt necessarily mean crime is dropping (or falling). It just means the number of recorded crimes has decrease. This is something that people regularily dont understand when looking at stats like this.

How do you suppose crime rates should be gauged?
Anecdotes heard down the pub?
Threads started in AH?

Actual crime may be higher than reported crime, - but this has always been and will always be the case. So if 'reported' crime is falling, it's not a big jump to say that 'crime' is falling.

wicklowstevo

actually what is happening is the incidents of crime is being down graded from crime to non crime incidents. ie burgerly to trespassing , assault to public order etc an old trick when ever the higher ups want to look good . And that's a political policy to jiggle the figures to show something that isn't happening. look at any news site and see if crime is really falling,

wexie

wicklowstevo wrote: »

actually what is happening is the incidents of crime is being down graded from crime to non crime incidents. ie burgerly to trespassing , assault to public order etc an old trick when ever the higher ups want to look good . And that's a political policy to jiggle the figures to show something that isn't happening. look at any news site and see if crime is really falling,

politicians misrepresenting statistics? :eek:

surely you're not suggesting our most esteemed leaders would stoop to such levels as to furnish us with anything other than the god honest truth?

Frank Black

wicklowstevo wrote: »

actually what is happening is the incidents of crime is being down graded from crime to non crime incidents. ie burgerly to trespassing , assault to public order etc an old trick when ever the higher ups want to look good . And that's a political policy to jiggle the figures to show something that isn't happening. look at any news site and see if crime is really falling,

Yes, that's a much better way to assess crime rates.

P.Walnuts

I really really hope everyone who posted on the Portmarnock "Riots" threads has had a goo at those figures...

There was so much hysterical rubbish on that thread

wexie

P.Walnuts wrote: »

I really really hope everyone who posted on the Portmarnock "Riots" threads has had a goo at those figures...

There was so much hysterical rubbish on that thread

Funny you should mention that as it's the perfect example, I'd say you'll probably find that there were a lot fewer crimes reported that day than there were committed.

Maybe we should ask some of the shop owners around Portmarnock if they'd bothered reporting the instances of shop lifting.

It's entirely possible crime rates have, in fact, gone down. However I'm pretty confident a lot of smaller crimes simply go unreported / detected so I'd take those (and any) statistics with a generous helping of cynicism.

SV

Yep and less people on the live register, sure things are rosy in Ireland right now!


Er, no.
Less people reporting crimes and less Gardaí and more people emigrating.
Looks great on the figures, the reality is very, very different.

Boombastic

Have you ever tried to find a Garda to report a crime to?

Sir Humphrey Appleby

wicklowstevo wrote: »

actually what is happening is the incidents of crime is being down graded from crime to non crime incidents. ie burgerly to trespassing , assault to public order etc an old trick when ever the higher ups want to look good . And that's a political policy to jiggle the figures to show something that isn't happening. look at any news site and see if crime is really falling,

Thats wrong actually, assault is not downgraded to public order, and even if it was then how come Public Order offences are also down?

Valetta

Boombastic wrote: »

Have you ever tried to find a Garda to report a crime to?

999 or 112.

B.A._Baracus

Old and grey wrote: »

Maybe those who persist in peddling the myth that our country is crime ridden and unsafe will give us a break from the scaremongering now.

I dont care what some CSO report says. The world can be unsafe and crime ridden

Nabber

I have no time to commit a crime, I spend most of my day listening to the Anglo tapes. Jesus I'd hate to live in the country country were those tapes were made.

Crime down in Europe, blatant corruption up 7billion %. That 7billion %, i just plucked that figure out of my ass.

gurramok

There are less young adults around due to emigration, we export crime!

P.Walnuts

SV wrote: »

Yep and less people on the live register, sure things are rosy in Ireland right now!


Er, no.
Less people reporting crimes and less Gardaí and more people emigrating.
Looks great on the figures, the reality is very, very different.

How can you possibly know this?

P.Walnuts

wexie wrote: »

Funny you should mention that as it's the perfect example, I'd say you'll probably find that there were a lot fewer crimes reported that day than there were committed.

Maybe we should ask some of the shop owners around Portmarnock if they'd bothered reporting the instances of shop lifting.

It's entirely possible crime rates have, in fact, gone down. However I'm pretty confident a lot of smaller crimes simply go unreported / detected so I'd take those (and any) statistics with a generous helping of cynicism.

My point being that people we claiming all sorts on that thread..

"You wouldn't see that in Poland" was my favourite, despite poland having one of the worst football holligan problems in the world.

Compared to the rest of Europe we live in a relatively safe society, people just lose their minds when something high profile happens, probably while reading the Hearld and listening to Joe Duffy simultaneously

Boombastic

Valetta wrote: »

999 or 112.

Only for emergencies, not appropriate in every situtation

Valetta

Boombastic wrote: »

Only for emergencies, not appropriate in every situtation

If it's not an emergency then look up the number of the local station and ring them to report.

It's not very hard.

mikemac1

My beloved scooter vandalized 3 times and every time I went to the station to report it.

But only once did I get a letter with a pulse reference.

So maybe it was never recorded the other two times. Just put in a gardas notebook and there it stayed.

Why do you get a letter from pulse sometimes and not others?

Frank Black

Boombastic wrote: »

Have you ever tried to find a Garda to report a crime to?

Try a Garda station.

SV

P.Walnuts wrote: »

How can you possibly know this?

I'm batman.

Boombastic

Valetta wrote: »

If it's not an emergency then look up the number of the local station and ring them to report.

It's not very hard.

They don't always man the phone

Frank Black wrote: »

Try a Garda station.

If your car is stolen, how do you get to one that may be 10km away?


I can see I'm talking to city slickers here

Super-Rush

Frank Black wrote: »

Try a Garda station.

There are three stations within an 8 mile radius of where i live and you will only see someone in them once a week.

mikom

No mention of the white collar crimes, I see.
I must get on the phone to them about that.............

jobeenfitz

It seems it is not a crime to defraud the taxpayer by 30 billion or 64 billion or more, who really knows what the final bill will be.

I'm a cynic and I just wonder about statistics.

Maybe we could lower the crime rate some more by legalizing everything for those earning above 100,000 p.a. What purpose could it serve pursuing them. Looking forward and not back and all that crap.

Dyr

To quote Mr Adam Ant: Whats the point in robbery when nothing is worth taking? There's f**k all left in this country to nick

Frank Black

Boombastic wrote: »

They don't always man the phone




If your car is stolen, how do you get to one that may be 10km away?


I can see I'm talking to city slickers here

So you're not going to report your car being stolen because the Garda station is 10km away?

Jesus Christ, maybe we should have a Garda station on every street corner - presume you'd be happy to fund such a proposal through a huge increase in taxes as it would save you a 10km trip in the event of your car being stolen.

CruelCoin

Sergeant wrote: »

Someone murdered my neighbour last month, but the family didn't bother to report it as they knew the Gardaí are under pressure.

Mmmmmm, smells like bull****!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-L_zjK7fTB18/UY4qkM_Ly_I/AAAAAAAAAcQ/3DF-c4SBy_c/s1600/bull****_everywhere-e1345505471862.jpeg

Pumpkinseeds

Yeah right:rolleyes: we've got a nice collection of standard issue letters from the superintendent, expressing his sympathy for us having been the 'victims of crime', or words to that effect. Each letter contains a contact number for us to call a victim suppport line if we want to. The thing is the guards know who the culprits are, it's always the same family. The guards know who it is, we know who it is and of course the people who have commited the crimes know its them. I'm sure they find it fcuking hillarious.

We've had those letters for a few years now and unsurprisingly nobody has been charged. We've had to spend a lot of money on damage and if they ever do get caught and put on trial my husband's taxes will go toward paying for their free legal aid. His taxes are already contributing to their rent allowance, child benefit, dole money and fcuk knows whatever other social welfare benefits these scumbags are coining in.

Is crime falling or is recorded crime falling?

Boombastic

Frank Black wrote: »

So you're not going to report your car being stolen because the Garda station is 10km away?

Jesus Christ, maybe we should have a Garda station on every street corner - presume you'd be happy to fund such a proposal through a huge increase in taxes as it would save you a 10km trip in the event of your car being stolen.

You misunderstand. I would report it even if it is difficult to do so. I wouldn't waste the emergency services time if I woke up in the morning and my car was gone. It's not a life or death situation.

kupus

Crime is down, ok. If you say so.
Do people realise that stats can be massaged anyway you want by the various ways of wording the statement?

Blisterman

It's a similar case in the UK, and there's a pretty good case for it being a result of lead petrol being phased out in the early 90's.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jan/07/violent-crime-lead-poisoning-british-export

Apperently, even when you adjust for all sorts of other factors, the patterns of lead exposure and violent crime follow a nearly identical path, with a 20 year time gap.

wicklowstevo

Old and grey wrote: »

Thats wrong actually, assault is not downgraded to public order, and even if it was then how come Public Order offences are also down?

because public order incidents are being down graded to attention and complaints incidents DA

Boom__Boom

I'm deeply skeptical of the notion of crime figures in Ireland being massaged at the behest of politicians. The Guards would have a key part to play in the reporting process and I really can't see them going along with a process that would end up with massaged crime figures being put into the public sphere. In the current financial environment with their pay and jobs under threat there's no way they would let inaccurate crime statistics be published to make any politicians look good especially not Shattner without kicking up an almighty fuss.

Also the notion that people don't bother reporting crimes is a very strange one, especially when you consider the general Irish public seems to have little reticence in kicking up a fuss and demanding the government intervene on a variety of trivial incidents. I've never heard of anyone not report a crime to the Guards [I have heard of plenty of cases of poor/inadequate responses by the Guards but I've never heard anyone say they didnt report a crime to the Guards]

Obviously the Guards aren't going to be successful in terms of securing a conviction for every crime, but if you don't report a crime to the Guards it's a 100% that the criminal won't be found. Anyway is reporting a crime that long and difficult a process? From my experience it's a pretty painless process to report a crime. [As I said getting a satisfactory response is a different issue entirely but I really doubt that there are all that many people who have been the victims of crime so many times and found the Guard's response so poor that they have given up even reporting it. If anything if you have been the victim of numerous crimes/ongoing crimes I would suspect that you are far more likely to put the Guards under pressure and not be fobbed off if you have a 2nd/3rd/4th crime to report]

There's also the viewpoint that even if the Guards don't provide you with a positive resolution in terms of solving your crime, by reporting every crime it give the Guards more information in terms of targeting resources to prevent future crimes.

daheff

Frank Black wrote: »

How do you suppose crime rates should be gauged?
Anecdotes heard down the pub?
Threads started in AH?

Actual crime may be higher than reported crime, - but this has always been and will always be the case. So if 'reported' crime is falling, it's not a big jump to say that 'crime' is falling.

Recorded crime is falling. Possibly because of less people in the garda stations/less garda stations to report in.

SV wrote: »

Yep and less people on the live register, sure things are rosy in Ireland right now!


Er, no.
Less people reporting crimes and less Gardaí and more people emigrating.
Looks great on the figures, the reality is very, very different.

All I'm saying is that stats are numbers. Its the interpretation of the numbers that is the relevant part. People can look at this in one of two ways
1- Woo hoo...less crime recorded
2- Less crime recorded because less people bother to report it coz they know nothing will be done about the smaller crimes.

Blisterman

But it's fallen in just about every category. Are people not reporting murders because there's no one in the Garda station?

mikemac1

Boom__Boom wrote: »

I'm deeply skeptical of the notion of crime figures in Ireland being massaged at the behest of politicians. The Guards would have a key part to play in the reporting process and I really can't see them going along with a process that would end up with massaged crime figures being put into the public sphere. In the current financial environment with their pay and jobs under threat there's no way they would let inaccurate crime statistics be published to make any politicians look good especially not Shattner without kicking up an almighty fuss.

It's not ordinary gardaí on the street who massage figures.

It's the supers and the management!

No superintendant is going to take over an area and then tell their bosses that crime has shot up since they took over.

Sure ordinary gardaí want more support and resources but middle management want promotions and bad statistics can ruin a career

Tbh it's not just a garda issue, happens in any company with hard working foot soldiers and lying cheating middle management desperate for another promotion