B&I Lions v Wallabies, Test 2 Match Thread, Sat June 29, 1105am

bilston

paulmcshane wrote: »

Long time lurker....

SOB imo has to start somewhere in the back row, not sure where though. 6? I thought Lydiate was ok but did'nt really do much other than put fella's in ankle locks.

Murray played great when he came on. Delighted for him, he's really thriving in the Lions set up. Can only be good for auld Eire.

I would have Tuilagi starting the next test at 12. I just don't think Davies is really that good. I just don't see him as a player thats going to deliver any sort of spark. No disrespect to the guy. I know it was against Western Force but it seemed BOD and Tuilagi had the potential to be a threateing partnership. I don't buy the "drop BOD" lark anyways, simply because none of the others can do anything better. It's him and one of the other 3 for me.

They're my three chages anyways. I'm sure there can be much said for other changes too.

At the end of the day though, I believe Gatland is the main culprit for the awfully conservative performance. Australias to lose for me unfortunately.

Just a couple of things. Please don't think Davies isn't that good based on what he does at 12, he's a 13 and also putting Tuilagi in at 12 wouldn't really solve the problem because he is a 13 as well. He could probably do the role a bit better than Davies, but to really fix the problem you throw in Roberts or even Barritt or Twelvetrees.

Anyway good post and welcome.

CoDy1

Manu and Bod have shown they are good together. I wouldn't be against giving 36 a go either.

.ak

Just regarding people saying the last kick was out of Halfpenny's range... Was it? Just watching the game again and the kick from the 64th minute looks to be identically placed. Right on the logo in the middle of the pitch?

EDIT: Not identical but very close. I think Halfpenny just lost his legs after 80min.

seanm92

.ak wrote: »

Just regarding people saying the last kick was out of Halfpenny's range... Was it? Just watching the game again and the kick from the 64th minute looks to be identically placed. Right on the logo in the middle of the pitch?

EDIT: Not identical but very close. I think Halfpenny just lost his legs after 80min.

To be fair to Halfpenny the kick was at least 5 metres further back than the previous one, and the first one had only just made it, he was probably on the edge of his limit with the first

Lelantos

.ak wrote: »

Just regarding people saying the last kick was out of Halfpenny's range... Was it? Just watching the game again and the kick from the 64th minute looks to be identically placed. Right on the logo in the middle of the pitch?

EDIT: Not identical but very close. I think Halfpenny just lost his legs after 80min.

I think sky mentioned it was 55m incl angle. Realistically it wasn't going over after an energy sapping 80 mins.

.ak

CoDy1 wrote: »

Manu and Bod have shown they are good together. I wouldn't be against giving 36 a go either.

Yeah Roberts should be first choice, but Manu has played well at 12 on the tour where as Davies has not.

bilston

CoDy1 wrote: »

Manu and Bod have shown they are good together. I wouldn't be against giving 36 a go either.

They did ok together with one particular highlight against a poor side. As I as say it would be better than Davies/BOD but I'm just not convinced it would solve the problem. Maybe in a one off game you might get away with it.

neilmulvey

bilston wrote: »

They did ok together with one particular highlight against a poor side. As I as say it would be better than Davies/BOD but I'm just not convinced it would solve the problem. Maybe in a one off game you might get away with it.

Tuilagi has the power to get go forward even when tackled. The Lions were set up yesterday to stop Genia, and in turn to stop australia. There didnt seem to be any designated ball carriers because when the ball was shovelled out towards the backs Vunipola was stood there looking lost.

Lydiate is a good player but he isnt a ball carrier. Warburton isnt a ball carrier and Heaslip seemed to be doing the role Croft did last week by drifting out wide.

With POC, Healy and Roberts all missing the Lions were an easy read. The Lions need at least 2 ball carrying backrow forwards on the pitch. The backrow next week has to have Heaslip and O'Brien in it. If Warburton is out next week i think Tipuric should come in.

Hopefully Corbisero is fit to start and Roberts is to rejoin training too so if Gatland gets the right team out on the pitch to get the Lions going forward we will see Sexton/Roberts/BOD in attacking sense and that will bring North and Bowe into the game.

Lions cannot defend for 80 minutes and expect to win the series. I felt they let the Aussies off too easy early on yesterday when there was a chance to either get a try via a maul or else 3 points and Aussies down to 14 for ten minutes. They have to stop the Aussies by going at them, not standing off them and defending. And Mako needs to be told he is a prop, not an out half.

Swiwi.

Judgement Day wrote: »

As a spectacle today's game was a dismal affair especially when compared with the thrilling Highlanders vs Crusaders game earlier in the morning.

While I know NZ plays the greatest rugby known to man, you're not comparing like with like there JD. On the one hand you have 2 teams who appear fairly even on paper (which the scoreboard bears out), playing a once-in-every-12-years series where the margins are small and the stakes are high...and on the other hand you have one team looking for a 4-try bonus point victory, and the other team who are cellar dwellars in the SXV...and had Nonu sent off with 20 or so to play...so I'm not really sure what your point is?

Rightwing

Le vieux renard wrote: »

While I know NZ plays the greatest rugby known to man, you're not comparing like with like there JD. On the one hand you have 2 teams who appear fairly even on paper (which the scoreboard bears out), playing a once-in-every-12-years series where the margins are small and the stakes are high...and on the other hand you have one team looking for a 4-try bonus point victory, and the other team who are cellar dwellars in the SXV...and had Nonu sent off with 20 or so to play...so I'm not really sure what your point is?

That's true, but his point is valid. It was shocking stuff,,, from the Lions, the Aussies in fairness played all the rugby but poor execution let them down. The Lions of 09 were vastly superior imo.

Swiwi.

Rightwing wrote: »

That's true, but his point is valid. It was shocking stuff,,, from the Lions, the Aussies in fairness played all the rugby but poor execution let them down. The Lions of 09 were vastly superior imo.

I agree that the Lions attacking play was to exciting rugby what watching the Dail in action is to exciting TV, but I'm not really sure that posting in the Lions thread that the Crusaders & Highlanders played out a thriller adds much to the post-match discussion. There is a SXV thread after all.

Regardless of whether the Lions win next week, if WG serves up the same style of "attack" I don't want him anywhere near the AB coaching job.

As an aside, I see the English papers are already saying Vunipola was on the end of a few harsh calls. No doubt they would be extending the same leniency to Robinson & Alexander if the decisions had gone the other way. As GAGR demonstrated, Vunipola is a crap scrummaging prop, albeit very good around the field. I'll be delighted if England wheel out Vunipola (or Marler for that matter) in November, but I fully expect it will rightly be Corbisiero - Lancaster is no mug.

Rightwing

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I agree that the Lions attacking play was to exciting rugby what watching the Dail in action is to exciting TV, but I'm not really sure that posting in the Lions thread that the Crusaders & Highlanders played out a thriller adds much to the post-match discussion. There is a SXV thread after all.

Regardless of whether the Lions win next week, if WG serves up the same style of "attack" I don't want him anywhere near the AB coaching job.

As an aside, I see the English papers are already saying Vunipola was on the end of a few harsh calls. No doubt they would be extending the same leniency to Robinson & Alexander if the decisions had gone the other way. As GAGR demonstrated, Vunipola is a crap scrummaging prop, albeit very good around the field. I'll be delighted if England wheel out Vunipola (or Marler for that matter) in November, but I fully expect it will rightly be Corbisiero - Lancaster is no mug.

Gatland has been found wanting badly here. Firstly, the aussies are better than we thought, and then we suffered key injuries in the pack, now his initial plan may have been successful in winning a series if the above held true. But it didn't and now it looks like he has no answers.

Swiwi.

Rightwing wrote: »

Gatland has been found wanting badly here. Firstly, the aussies are better than you thought, and then we suffered key injuries in the pack, now his initial plan may have been successful in winning a series if the above held true. But it didn't and now it looks like he has no answers.

I've watched a heap of SXV this season, and I was pretty certain they'd be decent opposition for the Lions, it was clear that people picking a 3-0 Lions series victory with 15-20 point wins hadn't watched the Brumbies & Reds in action.

If Horwill plays next weekend, the Wallabies will win, without him it's too close to call. But the Lions will need to score at least 1 try I would imagine.

Rightwing

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I've watched a heap of SXV this season, and I was pretty certain they'd be decent opposition for the Lions, it was clear that people picking a 3-0 Lions series victory with 15-20 point wins hadn't watched the Brumbies & Reds in action.

If Horwill plays next weekend, the Wallabies will win, without him it's too close to call. But the Lions will need to score at least 1 try I would imagine.

Absolutely,I got the Aussies wrong, but also Gatland. I think he thought we'd bully them upfront and slot the resulting penalties.....that hasn't panned out.

Now what....

Tox56

I think this dismissing of Aussie chances before the series began is being blown way out of proportion. Outside the likes of rightwing how could anyone assume the Aussies would roll over against a Wales dominated Lions squad with the Welsh coach after they had beaten Wales 7 or 8 times in a row? They are probably the easiest tour relatively speaking but they're still the 3rd best team in the world, anyone who thought this would be a formality generally isn't worth listening to

Swiwi.

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely,I got the Aussies wrong, but also Gatland. I think he thought we'd bully them upfront and slot the resulting penalties.....that hasn't panned out.

Now what....

He should accept parity in the set-piece is the most likely outcome, maybe they can attack the lineout more if Horwill is out, but he needs to find a way to score tries. He's pulled out the exact same attacking plays as he did with Wales, and Aussie were extremely comfortable in defence yesterday.

He's unlucky Warburton is likely out, he was a bit of a menace at the breakdown and that helped slow Aussie's momentum. Australia made far too many unforced errors, which helped the Lions too.

Sexton needs to be flatter on attack and have a go once or twice to keep the Aussie defence guessing.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Tox56 wrote: »

I think this dismissing of Aussie chances before the series began is being blown way out of proportion. Outside the likes of rightwing how could anyone assume the Aussies would roll over against a Wales dominated Lions squad with the Welsh coach after they had beaten Wales 7 or 8 times in a row? They are probably the easiest tour relatively speaking but they're still the 3rd best team in the world, anyone who thought this would be a formality isn't worth listening to

+1

Anyone with half a notion knew coming into the series that the Wallabies are a strong side, and the emergence of the likes of Falou and the return of Moore has papered over most of their cracks

Couldn't understand people predicting an easy 3 nil whitewash for the Lions

Swiwi.

Tox56 wrote: »

I think this dismissing of Aussie chances before the series began is being blown way out of proportion. Outside the likes of rightwing how could anyone assume the Aussies would roll over against a Wales dominated Lions squad with the Welsh coach after they had beaten Wales 7 or 8 times in a row? They are probably the easiest tour relatively speaking but they're still the 3rd best team in the world, anyone who thought this would be a formality generally isn't worth listening to

Well, there were number of punters making those claims, albeit not the regulars such as yourself Tox56!

thomond2006

From a Leinster POV it's a shame they didn't sign AAC when it was rumoured weeks back, he's a quality operator.

Rightwing

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Well, there were number of punters making those claims, albeit not the regulars such as yourself Tox56!

True.

I still think the Aussies are more than beatable, but you need a good side to do it i.e. the ABs or BOKs.

The Lions have been a big disappointment, rather than the aussies excelling.

P.Walnuts

Tox56 wrote: »

I think this dismissing of Aussie chances before the series began is being blown way out of proportion. Outside the likes of rightwing how could anyone assume the Aussies would roll over against a Wales dominated Lions squad with the Welsh coach after they had beaten Wales 7 or 8 times in a row? They are probably the easiest tour relatively speaking but they're still the 3rd best team in the world, anyone who thought this would be a formality generally isn't worth listening to

Paddy Power paid out on the Lions during the week, I know hindsight and all that, but after how close the first test was it seems an incredibly stupid move

Kiwi_knock

I think concerns about the Aussie's strength were right to be made. Their squad has been surrounded by injuries, poor performances and off the field indiscretions. It was understandable that people would question whether they would be strong enough to face the Lions.

danthefan

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Paddy Power paid out on the Lions during the week, I know hindsight and all that, but after how close the first test was it seems an incredibly stupid move

They're just looking for publicity.

P.Walnuts

danthefan wrote: »

They're just looking for publicity.

Oh I know

Its still a bad move though, the opened back up the markets after the OZ win, could take a biggish hit with another Aussie win

Swiwi.

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

I think concerns about the Aussie's strength were right to be made. Their squad has been surrounded by injuries, poor performances and off the field indiscretions. It was understandable that people would question whether they would be strong enough to face the Lions.

True. Nevertheless if you were picking a World XV based on form over the last 12 months how many Lions would make it? I would probably nominate for selection Healy POC SOB & North but conceivably none would make it.

thomond2006

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Oh I know

Its still a bad move though, the opened back up the markets after the OZ win, could take a biggish hit with another Aussie win

They know that they'll win back a lot of their payout!

danthefan

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Oh I know

Its still a bad move though, the opened back up the markets after the OZ win, could take a biggish hit with another Aussie win

Tbf I reckon they know what they're doing.

Swiwi.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

+1

Anyone with half a notion knew coming into the series that the Wallabies are a strong side, and the emergence of the likes of Falou and the return of Moore has papered over most of their cracks

Couldn't understand people predicting an easy 3 nil whitewash for the Lions

Really? UMSE, make your mind up!

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Ok, 9. That's one position out of 15 (and the Lions certainly have better options behind Phillips than the Wallabies do behind Genia), but bar that where else?

Lions have much more depth and quality at 10,15,14,11,13,12,5,4,2 imo

You can't say the Australians have better players then try and back it up with one player who is far superior than any other nine in world rugby

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Really? UMSE, make your mind up!

I'm not saying the Australians have a stronger squad, they don't at all, but I never saw an easy 3-0 win for the Lions given that some people were talking about Australia like they were the same side that lost to Ireland in 2011. IN reality they're still a very good international side but you still had some posters getting carried away after seeing the warm up games and rowing in with the Gatland love fest despite how obvious it was even at that stage how limited the Lions game plan was

The discussion you quoted me from was about the strength depth and quality of player in each squad

shuffol

Anybody think it was a bad move for Halfpenny to take up the penalty opportunity at the end, I'm sure he would've known that it was probably out of his range, why not keep it in hand and try force something a bit closer.