RAF Regiment win military comps

tac foley

I find it all very odd - this post, I mean, from 'cruasder'. He blithely throws around epithet such as 'craphats' [Parachute Regiment term for anybody not a member of the Parachute Regiment]and 'pongos' [Royal Marines term of endearment for anybody in the Army], and generally gives a reasonable impression of somebody who knows what he is writing about. However, the use of such descriptive terms of mild abuse are only suffered by one soldier talking about another, and his syntax is not quite right for a serving or former member of the Armed Forces of the Crown.

'Army infantry'?

Johnny Foreigner has naval infantry, but the British have only the Royal Navy's Royal Marines

Post #25 is total sh1te. P Company is P Company is P Company, and EVERYBODY in all three elements of the British Armed Forces has to do it to get badged with para wings.

The RAF Regiment have an 'In house version of P Company'? In your dreams, sunshine.

Now, he claims to have earned the much-coveted maroon beret.

Much of Mr cruasder's posts appear to be nothing more than quotes, either from various on-line articles or newspapers............hmmmmmmmmmm.

Let's see how much further this thread goes, eh?

tac

pablomakaveli

cruasder777 wrote: »

You dont know what you are talking about.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9823312/Army-has-dropped-fitness-standards-to-allow-more-women-to-join.html


Army 'has dropped fitness standards to allow more women to join'
Fitness standards for British Army recruits including men have been reduced so that more women can join and equality targets can be met, it has been claimed.

Well unlike you i am in the British Army and i do know what im talking about.

Women have a couple of more minutes to complete their mile and a half time. But it's a minimum of 10:30 for males under 30.

It's 44 push ups in 2 minutes and 50 sit ups in two minutes for both genders.

So are you going to tell me about getting your maroon lid?

cruasder777

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Well unlike you i am in the British Army and i do know what im talking about.

Women have a couple of more minutes to complete their mile and a half time. But it's a minimum of 10:30 for males under 30.

It's 44 push ups in 2 minutes and 50 sit ups in two minutes for both genders.

So are you going to tell me about getting your maroon lid?

Ok lets have it your way, the Major quoted is wrong, fitness standards are not going down.

cruasder777

tac foley wrote: »

I find it all very odd - this post, I mean, from 'cruasder'. He blithely throws around epithet such as 'craphats' [Parachute Regiment term for anybody not a member of the Parachute Regiment]and 'pongos' [Royal Marines term of endearment for anybody in the Army], and generally gives a reasonable impression of somebody who knows what he is writing about. However, the use of such descriptive terms of mild abuse are only suffered by one soldier talking about another, and his syntax is not quite right for a serving or former member of the Armed Forces of the Crown.

'Army infantry'?

Johnny Foreigner has naval infantry, but the British have only the Royal Navy's Royal Marines

Post #25 is total sh1te. P Company is P Company is P Company, and EVERYBODY in all three elements of the British Armed Forces has to do it to get badged with para wings.

The RAF Regiment have an 'In house version of P Company'? In your dreams, sunshine.

Now, he claims to have earned the much-coveted maroon beret.

Much of Mr cruasder's posts appear to be nothing more than quotes, either from various on-line articles or newspapers............hmmmmmmmmmm.

Let's see how much further this thread goes, eh?

tac

For someone who claims to have gone from private to Lt Colonel you seem seriously out of the loop.


You are denying the RAF Regiment run their own version of P company ? Its called pre para selection, SAS bods also do it before P coy.


The RMs are officially termed amphibious infantry for your info.

pablomakaveli

cruasder777 wrote: »

Ok lets have it your way, the Major quoted is wrong, fitness standards are not going down.

She never said they have but rather she's worried they will. The required standard hasn't changed since i joined.

I've told you what those standards are and yet you seem to think newspaper and internet articles are better sources of information than people who are actually serving or have served.

cruasder777

pablomakaveli wrote: »

She never said they have but rather she's worried they will. The required standard hasn't changed since i joined.

I've told you what those standards are and yet you seem to think newspaper and internet articles are better sources of information than people who are actually serving or have served.

25 years ago infantry men had to do a 10 mile fully loaded battle march on 2 consequtive days with 55lbs of kit.

The 1.5 mile run was done in boots, the time was 9.30.

Now its in trainers and 12.30, the battle march is 6 miles with 40lbs of kit.

pablomakaveli

cruasder777 wrote: »

25 years ago infantry men had to do a 10 mile fully loaded battle march on 2 consequtive days with 55lbs of kit.

The 1.5 mile run was done in boots, the time was 9.30.

Now its in trainers and 12.30, the battle march is 6 miles with 40lbs of kit.

You've been told the mile and a half is a minimum of under 10:30 for males under thirty. Several times.

The AFT is 8 miles over 2 hours with the weight dependent on cap badge.

I've noticed in another thread on this forum youve been ducking questions about what military experience you have as well.

You know its in the charter thread that making false claims is a ban right?

cruasder777

pablomakaveli wrote: »

You've been told the mile and a half is a minimum of under 10:30 for males under thirty. Several times.

The AFT is 8 miles over 2 hours with the weight dependent on cap badge.

I've noticed in another thread on this forum youve been ducking questions about what military experience you have as well.

You know its in the charter thread that making false claims is a ban right?

Not on MOD sites only in your mind.

I havent ducked anything, I dont have anything to prove.

pablomakaveli

cruasder777 wrote: »

Not on MOD sites only in your mind.

I havent ducked anything, I dont have anything to prove.

Right i'm done with this thread. You're either a troll or mentally ill since you seem to think you know better than people actually serving or who have served in the British forces.

tac foley

Well, Mr cruasder, you've certainly stirred up the pot with your near-legendary ability to cull the tabloid newspapers for evidence to support your ridiculous propositions. Y'see, unlike your self, I can be found on the requisite page of every edition of the Army List between 1984 [commissioned] and 2000 [retired], and on the honours/awards/past CIs wall of my last unit.

I, too. will now join my former Brother-in-Arms, pablomakaveli, and quit this increasingly Kafka-esque thread.

Meanwhile, keep taking the medications, and I hope that your mental health issues are resolved in a way that -

1. Brings a lessening of the torment and anguish that you feel for failing to get your way.

2. Brings you back to Planet Reality.

Have a great day, eh?

tac

discus

This thread and cruasader are bringing this whole forum into disrepute. Laters

davetherave

cruasder777 wrote: »

Not on MOD sites only in your mind.

I havent ducked anything, I dont have anything to prove.

Look at page 5 on this booklet that is on army.mod.uk

It clearly states that for the the minimum standard is 44 pushups, 50 situps and 1.5 miles in 10:30.
This is the standard for those(Males, under 30) that are in not those that want to join up. When you are joining up the different cap badges have different standards.

cruasder777

tac foley wrote: »

Well, Mr cruasder, you've certainly stirred up the pot with your near-legendary ability to cull the tabloid newspapers for evidence to support your ridiculous propositions. Y'see, unlike your self, I can be found on the requisite page of every edition of the Army List between 1984 [commissioned] and 2000 [retired], and on the honours/awards/past CIs wall of my last unit.

I, too. will now join my former Brother-in-Arms, pablomakaveli, and quit this increasingly Kafka-esque thread.

Meanwhile, keep taking the medications, and I hope that your mental health issues are resolved in a way that -

1. Brings a lessening of the torment and anguish that you feel for failing to get your way.

2. Brings you back to Planet Reality.

Have a great day, eh?

tac

You claim to have been a Lt Col, what Regiment or battalion did you command ?

The Daily Telegraph is not a Tabloid by the way, infact being a Lt Col, I would have through it would have been required reading.

discus

cruasder777 wrote: »

Potential RAF Regiment Gunners need to score higher on the Barb test,(hence why RAF Reg gunners dont sound thick as alot of pongos do), pre recruit fitness standards are the same as the Parachute Regiment (1.5 miles in under 9mins 45secs etc),

From the RAF regiment website:

http://www.raf.mod.uk/careers/applicationzone/fitnesstests.cfm

Note:

To pass you will need to meet the following:
Males
AGE 2.4 Km Run (1.5 Mile) 10:30
Press-Ups 20
Sit-Ups 35

NAAAAILLLSS

SPPL

I have done some research into the RAF regiment they seem to be an unusual unit and everyone seems to slag them off.

I suppose my first thought was why have an RAF regiment and im not sure i have the answer yet? Apart from the normal unsubstantiated waffle.

If they are so bad why has the MOD included them with other elite units in the SFSG, again i dont seem to have a credible answer yet? Is it politics ? seems odd if it is.

As for training i would say from the reserach i have done its at least equal to Infantry training at Catterick and i dont belive they do any final exercise in a hanger i think thats probably chinese whispers.

With regards to there role it seems a pretty dull one nothing glamourous at all about them.

Military competitions- from what i have seen they are normally near the tops if not the top in military competitions, (they have great sucess at Cambrian patrol and sniper competitions) - so again why are they so hated

Only interested in facts not interested in mindless slagging off or so and so told me bla bla bla, if anyone can help and give a sensible reply then i would be grateful.

tac foley

The RAF Regiment is NOT part of SF, not way back when, not now and not in the future.

The problem with many members of the RAF Regiment is that they firmly believe that they are an elite, somehow 'special' organisation.

They do a great of job of being the RAF Regiment, but neither jump to work, nor operate in isolation as combat troops. Their role, as I'm sure you have read, is principally defensive, and not offensive.

'Walting' members of the RAF Regiment are responsible for their bad press among those us in the Army and RM - taken for what they are, they are a great bunch of lads.

Horses for courses, Sir.

An RAF Regiment Gunner telling a Royal Marine that they are equal in any way will have just one result. You'd be very lucky to recognise the Gunner as a human being.

tac

SPPL

Thanks for the reply Tac.

Though if they are in the SFSG and the SFSG are part of uk special forces then you have confused me somewhat.

My main concern is that i have asked the same question on a couple of other forums and kind of got similar answers, but no one has answered the basic ones like why is there an RAF regiment? I have the RAF Regiments answer to this but not the armys or RMs.

Another question is why arent they considered elite when they constantly best other military units in competitions and are part of the SFSG.

I suppose what im trying to say is if people constantly avoid answering the very basic questions im asking then immediatley i start to smell a rat ( a bit like watching David Cameron beling asked and awkward question on the Sunday politics show).

Im not meaning to upset people but if anyone wants to answer the questions with facts then i'm all ears.

tac foley

The RAF Regiment's primary role is the defence of RAF airfields and installations, wherever they are located. They do NOT jump to occupy airfields, or anything else. They are NOT amphibious troops, nor are they ever involved in amphibious operations, or mountain warfare, or arctic warfare troops, or 'balcony jumping, or hostage freeing or counter-terrorism operations, or close protection operators - ALL of which are the purvue of those who ARE either SF, or whose primary roles involves jumping or wading/canoeing/yomping.

That is why they have a basic infantry role and the capacity to shoot down enemy aircraft using missiles.

They are also used in A'stan as camp protection, hence the role of exterior patrolling of the various camps, particularly Bastion.

As far as SFSG is concerned - The SFSG follows the general structure of an infantry battalion; it comprises an HQ company, four rifle companies (referred to as "strike" companies and designated A, B, C and F) and a support company. The SFSG is mainly drawn from 1st Battalion, The Parachute Regiment. The Royal Marines mainly form F Company which specializes in supporting amphibious operations. The RAF Regiment also provide a platoon in one of these companies and Forward Air Controllers to direct close air support.[12] The Support company comprises mortar, sniper and patrol platoons. The Patrol platoon operates vehicles including the Jackal and includes Fire Support Groups which include Parachute Regiment, Royal Artillery and RAF Regiment personnel.

Note the numbers we are talking about here - a platoon is 27 men - NOT the entire RAF Regiment organisation. Those selected after passing P Company, like every other member of the UKAF who wears wings on his shoulder, join this single platoon.

As I noted earlier, there is a real misconception held by many members of the RAF Regiment that they are somehow elite. This is categorically NOT the case. It is the constant referral to this claim of elitism that p!sses off those who really DO fit that description.

IF you join the RAF Regiment, you will be joining in a great bunch of professional soldiers who just happen to be in the RAF, and true, they do do well in competitions. However, they do not do these things in large numbers, like the rest of the Army/RN.

tac

discus

Applied the same thinking to the raf regt eh? You've obviously never met many from either. Nice lads, the raf regt. But hard as nails, they are not.

Edit... lemming has removed his post which compared 1 para to the raf regt.

Great post tac.

Lemming

discus wrote: »

Applied the same thinking to the raf regt eh? You've obviously never met many from either. Nice lads, the raf regt. But hard as nails, they are not.

Discus, I had deleted my post. But to correct you; I was not referring to the RAF regt. as hard as nails just like 1 Para; nor would I consider the two units as being comparable if you will. I phrased the sentence poorly and my apologies for giving you the wrong impression. What I had meant to say was that both units are members of the SFSG; but that does not make either "elite".

I deleted my post because tac got in there with a far, far better and more comprehensive and informed post than my civilian opinion could ever make.,

discus

Put it like this, the RAF regiment can put their lads on P-company or the All Arms Commando Course. Regular infantry, engineers, artillery, medics also go on these courses. With these two facts, you could almost deduce that the RAF regiment are, as a whole, not as good as any of the commando or para regiments. Just saying.

tac foley

Discus, old floon, I've been trying VERY hard to be as non-commital as I can about the RAF Regiment. I think you'd agree that, for the most part, I've kept my comments reasonable and polite, since the OP has obviously never had anything to do with the British Army or Royal Marines, and therefore has not been in a position to enquire directly about his questions.

I'm no longer serving, but in the thirty-three years that I DID serve, I never heard the words 'we are an elite bunch of blokes' come out of the mouth of any member of the RAF Regiment while he was conscious.

As I noted, suffice it to say that if a member of the RAF Regiment took on a member of the Parachute Regiment or Royal Marines, there is a 98% chance that he would be slaughtered, and I mean that in all sincerity.

tac

pablomakaveli

Basing the eliteness of a unit based on how they do in competitions is the wrong approach. The guys on the shooting teams are usually picked because they are a good shot and spend a lot of time away with the shooting teams practicing.

As for Cambrian patrol it's a very tough competition but the team from my regt won a bronze this year and we are certainly not elite. It was probably more down to the team putting in plenty of training beforehand.

Incidentally my friend on the Cambrian team told me a team from the Defence Forces won a silver. Didn't even know they entered teams into Cambrian patrol.

discus

Yeah, the irish team model pit was next to my batterys model pit. The irish lads must have removed the flags from their uniform, because the lads assumed they were dutch until they opened their mouths.

Totally agree about competitions. Great bragging rights, but unless you are picking a team completely at random from your unit/regt, it proves **** all in most cases.

SPPL

Hi again thanks for your reply, still not sure im getting to the bottom of this and i appreciate i may be kicking the hornets nest, im an insurance claim investigator for some large companies so i spend my time looking at stats and being pretty nerdy which is why things dont compute still for me. I deal with alot of people who talk alot but dont actually answer your questions so i'm sorry if it feels like i'm pushing ....i am

SFSG is made up of the RM and Paras both elite groups of soldiers, SFSG also includes RAF regt that also do all the really important stuff like forward observing, but despite being in an elite unit with other elite units, they arent considered elite, they may only have 27 people there but thats 27 more people than the rifles or the Mercians? Sorry gents to an outsider i dont get it?

I dont know how many military competitions there are but i belived for infantry units cambrian patrol was one of the toughest competitions- the RAF regt always perform well, if they went to more military competitions would they win more? how many competitions dont they go to? - but again they arent considered elite depite their past form - i dont get it still?

The RAF regt no long have a rapier force (though my info could be wrong)

My question about why there is an RAF regt has been answered but i have not clarified it yet - here goes and dont shoot the messenger!!!!

The RAF regt was formed because the army consistantly kept on losing airfields to smaller sized enemy forces, the straw that broke the camels back was the battle of crete. The RAF regt was formed and have never lost an airfield to an enemy force. Again despite clearly out matching the army in this area by a country mile- they arent considered elite? gents i dont get it ?

SPPL

Sorry gents im just getting used to this forum thing so i have missed some of the comments that were made.

I havent actually had anyone from the RAF regt say they are elite to me and i have enquired about there role on FB

Apparently they attacked an airport in IRAQ (enemy surrendered without a shot so no biggy but they still attacked not just defended)

Alot of the comments about picking random teams for competitions are fair but im sure every unit only picks there best guys. Though i read a thread on FB and the RAF regt were laughing because they only had a weeks training in the lakes and still won either a bronze or silver at Cambrian.

there are physically more challenging tests to get into the RAF regiment than an army infantry regiment, in general the lads i have seen in Northallerton at there freedom of Northallerton parade were all six footers and completley overshadowed the army infantry guys so im not sure i go for the 98% get slaughtered.

Sorry lads but i work off proof and it just feels that you make alot of throw away comments but dont have any hard facts, you could probably prove 100% that an Royal Engineer had poorer soldiering skills than an infantry solder ...so why cant you do the same with the RAF regt ...smells fishy, and sounds a little more like people just dont like the idea of the RAF having soldiers.

It seems more obvious to me that the Army would have better soldiers just after someone to give some evidence as at the moment it overwhelmingly supports the RAF regt

pablomakaveli

SPPL wrote: »

Sorry gents im just getting used to this forum thing so i have missed some of the comments that were made.

I havent actually had anyone from the RAF regt say they are elite to me and i have enquired about there role on FB

Apparently they attacked an airport in IRAQ (enemy surrendered without a shot so no biggy but they still attacked not just defended)

Alot of the comments about picking random teams for competitions are fair but im sure every unit only picks there best guys. Though i read a thread on FB and the RAF regt were laughing because they only had a weeks training in the lakes and still won either a bronze or silver at Cambrian.

there are physically more challenging tests to get into the RAF regiment than an army infantry regiment, in general the lads i have seen in Northallerton at there freedom of Northallerton parade were all six footers and completley overshadowed the army infantry guys so im not sure i go for the 98% get slaughtered.

Sorry lads but i work off proof and it just feels that you make alot of throw away comments but dont have any hard facts, you could probably prove 100% that an Royal Engineer had poorer soldiering skills than an infantry solder ...so why cant you do the same with the RAF regt ...smells fishy, and sounds a little more like people just dont like the idea of the RAF having soldiers.

It seems more obvious to me that the Army would have better soldiers just after someone to give some evidence as at the moment it overwhelmingly supports the RAF regt

The Cambrian patrol teams at my regiment at least are made of of people who get dicked for it, normally the newest lads, and a tiny number of volunteers. So not exactly the best in the regiment. I can't speak for other units though.

Also had a look at the fitness standards for the RAF regt on the RAF site and the mile and a half time is 10:30. Same as for the army. In fact a minute less than the 9:30 required for specialist regiments in the artillery. Those being 7 RHA and 29 which are paras and commandos respectively. If the RAF regt were elite it would be 9:30 max.

Also push-ups and sit-ups are 40 and 41 respectively compared to the armies 44 and 50. So not better there either.

In fact looking at the Potential Gunner Selection Course the things they do on that aren't much different to the selection i did for the army.

So your assumption that it's more challenging to get into the RAF regt that it is an infantry regiment is just wrong.

I don't doubt that there are guys in the RAF regt who have gone on to do para or commando training but the RAF regt as a whole or not elite.

tac foley

SPPL wrote: »

Sorry gents im just getting used to this forum thing so i have missed some of the comments that were made.

I havent actually had anyone from the RAF regt say they are elite to me and i have enquired about there role on FB

Apparently they attacked an airport in IRAQ (enemy surrendered without a shot so no biggy but they still attacked not just defended)

Alot of the comments about picking random teams for competitions are fair but im sure every unit only picks there best guys. Though i read a thread on FB and the RAF regt were laughing because they only had a weeks training in the lakes and still won either a bronze or silver at Cambrian.

there are physically more challenging tests to get into the RAF regiment than an army infantry regiment, in general the lads i have seen in Northallerton at there freedom of Northallerton parade were all six footers and completley overshadowed the army infantry guys so im not sure i go for the 98% get slaughtered.

Sorry lads but i work off proof and it just feels that you make alot of throw away comments but dont have any hard facts, you could probably prove 100% that an Royal Engineer had poorer soldiering skills than an infantry solder ...so why cant you do the same with the RAF regt ...smells fishy, and sounds a little more like people just dont like the idea of the RAF having soldiers.

It seems more obvious to me that the Army would have better soldiers just after someone to give some evidence as at the moment it overwhelmingly supports the RAF regt

I've tried very hard to be kind, but sadly, my patience is about used up.

Sir, you don't appear to be listening to what serving soldiers in the British Army are telling you. You are NOT in any of the organisations that you are so freely discussing as an ill-advised observer with a very naive outlook on life in any part of the military, so you will understand that I'm being kind in my responses to you. Pablo and Discus WILL understand what I mean, but you, unless you join us, never will.

Whoever told you that the RAF Regiment has a different set of standards to qualify for entry - simply not true.

Using the RE as an example of lower standards is deeply insulting - as anybody in the BA will tell you, the RE has won more medals - including VCs - than any other part of the British Army.

I'm out of here before I say something that will be deeply insulting, and more likely get me banned.

tac

SPPL

Tac you telling me one thing and the RAF regiment are telling me another so i am being given information by soldiers who are currently serving, the difference is that the RAF regiment support there statements with facts you dont. In actual fact when i push them on awkward questions they have never behaved like a spoilt child who hasnt got there own way, which is a constant problem with the Army!

It is true that they have a different set of standards, at a very basic level they have to pass there mile and a half run in 10:30 where as the Infantry have 12:45 on there pre selection test, this is fact and is on both Army and RAF regiment websites.

I have also looked at past test papers for the army and RAF, the difference is vast, the RAF test is bloody hard and the army test is of a very low standard. So instantly the RAF regt get someone who is fitter and more inteligent!

You seem to have deliberatley tried your hardest to take offence at the RE comments, you suceeded well done!

Over all Tac you have made several comments about the RAF Regiment that just arent true and you comments that can be easily dismissed after spending 2mins on a search engine, in all you have been no help at all and have spent more time giving me red herrings! My initial message to ask for no unsubstantiated waffle!

Pablo thanks for the feedback its interesting to speak to a serving Infantry soldier, maybe military competitions isnt the best way to judge and thanks for giving me some actual evidence why!

Though there was a massive difference on the pre selection tests 1.5 miler you didnt mention.

No one has countered why the RAF regt say they were formed either, infact everyone has avoided the question, some throwing teddys out the cot just so they dont have to answer it, which speaks volumes to me.

My thoughts are
RAF regiment para trained sqn are elite- they tick all the elite boxes (im not saying they are SF)
The rest of the RAF regiment are somewhere in between normal grunt and elite, essentially they just dont have the same fitness standards.

Why does the Army have such a problem with this? and bloody hell they really seem to!

My only conclusion i have come to is that the Army just dont like the idea of some blue beret wearing tossers being better than them....ask yourself a question ....how many rock apes have commented on this thread?

How many people have had a really bad attitude on this thread and from what service are they from?

I constantly hear people saying that the RAF regiment go around telling everyone they are elite, it seems to be that the Army goes around telling everyone the RAF regiment call themselves elite...nothing more!

tac foley

SPPL wrote: »

I constantly hear people saying that the RAF regiment go around telling everyone they are elite, it seems to be that the Army goes around telling everyone the RAF regiment call themselves elite...nothing more!

Since it appears that you actually live in the North of England, I suggest that instead of listening to people who tell you that they are 'elite' whatever that means to you, you go to Catterick and talk to the staff there and ask them about the RAF Regiment.

tac