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" Shame on you " Michael Martin

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    #62
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    Is that their primary function in FF or are they higher elected officials misrepresenting themselves as ogra ?

    What are you talking about? They are Ógra members - they don't work for Fianna Fáil. It seems you are looking for another angle to spin after you were blown out of the water from my post above, which you didn't reply to:
    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Some of the matters relating to assistant teachers were resolved, but the matters relating to special needs assistance's were not.

    Do you concede that you do not know what you are talking about? That you are trying to be outraged about Fianna Fáil's participation in the demonstration, even though you don't even know what the demonstration was about - and that you chose to ignore various explanations time and time again?


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    #63
    renegademaster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭renegademaster


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I suppose we can hardly expect raymon to post the latest Journal article on this matter, which highlights that a small but vocal group sought to hijack the protest?



    The usual agitators did themselves no good by detracting from the issue at hand last night.

    you have a long way to come back from your ignorant views of protestors running an absolute ba$tard from trying to mingle with people his party fcuked up for generations!! Me-hole should have been beaten off the street the cheeky fcuker!!


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    #64
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What are you talking about? They are Ógra members - they don't work for Fianna Fáil. It seems you are looking for another angle to spin after you were blown out of the water from my post above, which you didn't reply to:

    Do you concede that you do not know what you are talking about? That you are trying to be outraged about Fianna Fáil's participation in the demonstration, even though you don't even know what the demonstration was about - and that you chose to ignore various explanations time and time again?

    I am outraged that the FF party that was cutting SNA numbers is forgetting that they did this and are pretending to care now. Cynical and shameful


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    #65
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    I am outraged that the FF party that was cutting SNA numbers is forgetting that they did this and are pretending to care now. Cynical and shameful

    Are you outraged that Fianna Fáil introduced SNA's, when Micheál Martin was Minsiter for Education, and that the number of SNA's increased from 300 to 10,000 while FF were in government?


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    #66
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Are you outraged that Fianna Fáil introduced SNA's, when Micheál Martin was Minsiter for Education, and that the number of SNA's increased from 300 to 10,000 while FF were in government?

    That's only part of the story .Michael Martin voted to cut SNAs in the last 2 years of FF .

    Fianna Fail have been fighting against special needs cases in the courts for years.


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    #67
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What are you talking about? They are Ógra members - they don't work for Fianna Fáil. It seems you are looking for another angle to spin


    Are you sure one of these guys is not the head of FF in Tipperary pretending to be Ogra. Looks like him.


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    #68
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    This thread perfectly encapsulates why I hold both FF and groups such as WSM in such high contempt.


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    #69
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,667 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    raymon wrote: »
    .
    Fianna Fail have been fighting against special needs cases in the courts for years.
    Neutral in this thread, but offhand this has been a policy of the state (education access, juvenile detention etc) no matter who has been in power from what I recall from the Sinott case.


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    #70
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    That's only part of the story .Michael Martin voted to cut SNAs in the last 2 years of FF .

    Fianna Fail have been fighting against special needs cases in the courts for years.


    I am not denying that cuts were made, but it is a bit rich for you to try and completely whitewash the past by denying that Fianna Fáil put in place huge resourcing for SNA's throughout their time in government.
    raymon wrote: »
    Are you sure one of these guys is not the head of FF in Tipperary pretending to be Ogra. Looks like him.

    You seem to be unaware that being a member of Ógra does not mean you cannot hold positions within the Fianna Fáil organization as a whole. Indeed it seems the representation from Ógra on the national executive has increased hugely over the last two years, which is all part of the renewal process.


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    #71
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    You seem to be unaware that being a member of Ógra does not mean you cannot hold positions within the Fianna Fáil organization as a whole. Indeed it seems the representation from Ógra on the national executive has increased hugely over the last two years, which is all part of the renewal process.


    That really takes the biscuit

    Dressing up senior party members as Ogra is deception in my book.


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    #72
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Old and grey wrote: »
    So members of Ogra FF, most of whom would not even have been in their teens when this country was being wrecked are to be refused the right to comment or protest at the current governments policies!
    Now thats hypocrisy!

    One of these pretend Ogra people was far from a teenager when his party was ruining the country . He is actually not young at all and is the top Fianna Fail man in Tipperary.

    Another misrepresentation by FF that has some people fooled


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    #73
    audman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 817 ✭✭✭audman


    raymon wrote: »
    One of these pretend Ogra people was far from a teenager when his party was ruining the country . He is actually not young at all and is the top Fianna Fail man in Tipperary.

    Another misrepresentation by FF that has some people fooled

    Let us name and shame! Name and shame goddamn it!


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    #74
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    audman wrote: »
    Let us name and shame! Name and shame goddamn it!

    https://twitter.com/ArthurGriffin


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    #75
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    The man dressed up an Ogra FFer is actually Vice President of Fianna Fail

    The shame of it


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    #76
    audman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 817 ✭✭✭audman


    raymon wrote: »
    The man dressed up an Ogra FFer is actually Vice President of Fianna Fail

    The shame of it

    Actors, fakes, liars, what have you...


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    #77
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    The man dressed up an Ogra FFer is actually Vice President of Fianna Fail

    The shame of it

    One of at least four others I notice.

    Seriously though, you do realize that the individual is a well known Ógra activist - which is likely to be a key reason as to why he was elected to the position?

    Your just undermining yourself now. For the last year you have been trying to argue that it is the 'same old' Fianna Fáil party, as if the media discussion surrounding the parties fundamental renewal was all one big conspiracy. However you have just illustrated as to how renewal really is meaningful when a member of Ógra, from the new generation, is able to reach the position of VP.
    raymon wrote: »
    One of these pretend Ogra people was far from a teenager when his party was ruining the country . He is actually not young at all and is the top Fianna Fail man in Tipperary.

    Oh really, perhaps you get let us know what age you think he is? You do realize that Ógra membership age is from 16 - 30? Or are you clueless on that matter too, and trying to spoof as if you know the internal Fianna Fáil organization in depth?


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    #78
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    One of at least four others I notice.

    Seriously though, you do realize that the individual is a well known Ógra activist - which is likely to be a key reason as to why he was elected to the position?

    Your just undermining yourself now. For the last year you have been trying to argue that it is the 'same old' Fianna Fáil party, as if the media discussion surrounding the parties fundamental renewal was all one big conspiracy. However you have just illustrated as to how renewal really is meaningful when a member of Ógra, from the new generation, is able to reach the position of VP.



    Oh really, perhaps you get let us know what age you think he is? You do realize that Ógra membership age is from 16 - 30? Or are you clueless on that matter too, and trying to spoof as if you know the internal Fianna Fáil organization in depth?

    The man is 25 or 26 , irrelevant really.

    This man is vice president of Fianna fail and dressing up in an Ogra tshirt is an act of cowardice given his senior role in the party.


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    #79
    Einhard
    Registered Users Posts: 6,920 ✭✭✭Einhard


    This thread is getting weird...


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    #80
    audman
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 817 ✭✭✭audman


    Einhard wrote: »
    This thread is getting weird...

    As is our country and the way it's run Einhard, as is our country and the way it is goddamn run. Goddamn it!


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    #81
    cormacjones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭cormacjones


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Hijack? They were there supporting a Fianna Fáil motion, and were invited by the organizers to attend. I am not so sure if the organizers were as keen to have the WSM in attendance given their record of destroying protests by detracting from the issue at hand. No one has a monopoly over the expression of opinion - but it seems some serial agitators are not happy about that.

    Dáil Éireann - Private Members Business (Fianna Fáil) 25 - 26 June 2013


    Sierra Oscar,

    I think you're a very positive poster on this site. Just a quick question about FF being invited to the protest. I'm involved in the Wicklow SNA group and we make a point of never inviting any parties to our protests. They do participate, but never on an official invite. As far as I'm aware that's the position of the Dublin group too. Were you officially invited by the group, or just by individual members? I think the distinction is important.

    thanks,
    CJ


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    #82
    timmythedog
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭timmythedog


    E. Dunphy had it right - Fianna Fail are a cross between the Moonies and the Mafia and should never be let near the reins of power again. A gombeen ridden party who will tell anyone what they think they want to hear in order to get elected. Such an unsustainable approach has played the major role in bankrupting the country - its no wonder special needs provisions are under such pressure.
    Having wrecked the economy they now have the brass neck in the manner of Silvio Berlusconi to turn up like the fire brigade to put out the fire - except they have no principles, no morals, no integrity and no basic competence as their leadership has shown over decades - FIANNA FAIL - NEVER AGAIN.


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    #83
    bumper234
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,250 ✭✭✭✭bumper234


    timmythedog wrote: »
    E. Dunphy had it right - Fianna Fail are a cross between the Moonies and the Mafia and should never be let near the reins of power again. A gombeen ridden party who will tell anyone what they think they want to hear in order to get elected. Such an unsustainable approach has played the major role in bankrupting the country - its no wonder special needs provisions are under such pressure.
    Having wrecked the economy they now have the brass neck in the manner of Silvio Berlusconi to turn up like the fire brigade to put out the fire - except they have no principles, no morals, no integrity and no basic competence as their leadership has shown over decades - FIANNA FAIL - NEVER AGAIN.

    I have no political affiliations at all but i just wonder about the bolded part. If not Fianna Fail then who?

    Fianna Gael? Great job they are doing right now.

    Labour? Sold their political souls for a bit of power. Soon to be gone the way of the PD's and Greens.

    Sinn Fein? People will never trust them.

    Socialist party? Some people on these boards won't even protest next to them never mind vote for them.

    Independents? Not enough of them.

    Another new party? Maybe it'w time for a new party to emerge but will they be able to garner enough support over the next couple of years to get majority status?

    So what we probably get is another coalition. Which of the above to you throw together and trust to get this country and it's people off their knees?


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    #84
    cormacjones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭cormacjones


    cormacjones wrote: »
    Sierra Oscar,

    I think you're a very positive poster on this site. Just a quick question about FF being invited to the protest. I'm involved in the Wicklow SNA group and we make a point of never inviting any parties to our protests. They do participate, but never on an official invite. As far as I'm aware that's the position of the Dublin group too. Were you officially invited by the group, or just by individual members? I think the distinction is important.

    thanks,
    CJ


    Sierra Oscar,

    Can I take it from the lack of reply that FF were never invited by the organisers of the protest? This would back up what I've heard too.

    I suppose it's easy to throw in a comment like "invited by the organisers" and assume no one would check up on it.


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    #85
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    cormacjones wrote: »
    Sierra Oscar,

    Can I take it from the lack of reply that FF were never invited by the organisers of the protest? This would back up what I've heard too.

    I suppose it's easy to throw in a comment like "invited by the organisers" and assume no one would check up on it.

    First off, your language makes it seem that I am some sort of FF spokesperson - which I am not. Contact Fianna Fáil for an answer if it is weighing on your mind so much. The information that I have heard is that FF were invited. Also FF supporters would usually show support when an FF private members bill is before the house, regardless of whether there is a larger demonstration or not.


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    #86
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    First off, your language makes it seem that I am some sort of FF spokesperson - which I am not. Contact Fianna Fáil for an answer if it is weighing on your mind so much. The information that I have heard is that FF were invited. Also FF supporters would usually show support when an FF private members bill is before the house, regardless of whether there is a larger demonstration or not.

    I for one am not convinced that the protest orgainsers would invite the very people who cut special needs funding in the last 2 years of their own government.
    The same party that callously bankrupted the country.

    I'm glad Michael Martin and minions were discovered to be trying to get photo opportunities and ejected from the protest.


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    #87
    cormacjones
    Closed Accounts Posts: 344 ✭✭cormacjones


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    First off, your language makes it seem that I am some sort of FF spokesperson - which I am not. Contact Fianna Fáil for an answer if it is weighing on your mind so much. The information that I have heard is that FF were invited. Also FF supporters would usually show support when an FF private members bill is before the house, regardless of whether there is a larger demonstration or not.

    I just think it's easy to put in a throwaway comment like "invited by the organisers" because it supports your argument. Anyone I've spoken to have said that FF were 100% not invited to the protest.

    If it's not true, it diminishes your argument. That is all.


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    #88
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    cormacjones wrote: »
    I just think it's easy to put in a throwaway comment like "invited by the organisers" because it supports your argument. Anyone I've spoken to have said that FF were 100% not invited to the protest.

    If it's not true, it diminishes your argument. That is all.


    I have to agree with the above . If your having a credible demonstration the last people you would invite would be FF. Come to think of it that goes for most our politicians regardless of party in case I'm accussed of showing un fair bias towards the poor injured party in all this FF.


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