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" Shame on you " Michael Martin

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    #32
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Cody Pomeray wrote: »
    You see, that's not credible.

    I don't think you can expect people to take something you're saying here at face value, when you have an obvious political bias. As incredible as I find it that Martin was engaging with the WSM, or that the protestors were not the ones closest to the gate, even engaging with this hypothesis is futile to begin with.

    For now, or until some objective source demonstrates otherwise, I think the video has to be taken at its face value.

    Whatever, you wouldnt believe me eitherway.

    Although it is interesting that the Journal have updated their article to include the following:
    Fianna Fáil Deputy Micheál Martin spoke to parents, SNAs and members of disability rights groups but a small number of people in the crowd shouted ‘Shame on you!’

    You probably wont think the Journal are credible either though.


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    #33
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Whatever, you wouldnt believe me eitherway.

    Although it is interesting that the Journal have updated their article to include the following:



    You probably wont think the Journal are credible either though.

    That's not correct . The chants in the videos are from more than a small number of people.

    Michael Martin took the correct decision to flee before others discovered he was trying to infiltrate for a photo opportunity.

    Willie o Dea , scarpered quickly too in November when he too was detected trying to score some photo opportunities.


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    #34
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    There we have it, now the article is wrong because it is saying something you don't like to hear - but you were happy to share the article when it adhered to your viewpoint.


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    #35
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    There we have it, now the article is wrong because it is saying something you don't like to hear - but you were happy to share the article when it adhered to your viewpoint.

    Did Martins press office call the Journal request this "small number" edit? Can you check ?

    The videos are clear this is a huge swell of people irritated and angered by Michael Martins infiltration.


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    #36
    Sir Humphrey Appleby
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,465 ✭✭✭Sir Humphrey Appleby


    raymon wrote: »
    I hope Ogra , Martin and Willie turn up at more protests with their FF balloons, tshirts , hats and badges. I hope the protestors turn on them each time.

    ( not in a violent way )

    It will remind them of the suffering they caused.

    I doubt anything anyone can say would distract you from "FF=satan" viewpoint.
    I take that you don't believe that anyone who ever voted FF should be allowed excersise their franchise again either!


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    #37
    idiottje
    Closed Accounts Posts: 80 ✭✭idiottje


    I WAS there. I was standing on the corner at Buswells, in front of Eamon Ryan, as it happens. Let me start by saying I am not a member of ANY political party. I am no friend of FF, but neither do I support SF, FG, SWP and my feelings toward Labour are getting to the "same of the rest of them stage."
    So, I was there, and there were more than just a few, or a small number of people chanting SHAME ON YOU! I would put it well over 100. Okay, I will admit that the SF guys were at the front row, but I would put their numbers at 15, and that was at a push. There was REAL anger that FF and Ogra FF should try and score political points at this event. Now, the FF and Ogra FF people can spin this anyway they want. However, if you genuinely believe that the vast majorty of people chanting were political representatives or associated to a socilist grouping, I worry for your grasp of what actually happened there, and the anger felt by what was mostly, the general public.

    EDIT: Fix a typo.


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    #38
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    Most politicians in my experience are, in the main out for what they can get for themselves. They want to get on the gravy train before retiring on to more than generous pensions. If in doing so they can do some good for the country and the people all the better. If on the other hand people suffer because of there selfish desire for power and money so be it.

    Fine Geal, Fine Fail, Labour or whoever, they are for the most, all the same. If any politician can make a cut in SNA's or cuts in general to the vulnerable without first cutting or ending their crazy travel/attendance allowance, this shows me how much they really care for these people. I think the travel/attendance allowance is 12,000 tax free for TD's living in the Dublin region.

    A country that borrows billions every year to run the country and these people think this payment is warranted on top of their healthy salaries. This payment is more than the amount a person on social welfare gets in a year.These same politicians are quick to tell us about the borrowed billions when defending cuts they make.

    I'm not saying politicians should not be allowed attend protests, I am just questioning their sincerity toward the vulnerable and all the people of this country.


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    #39
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Old and grey wrote: »
    I doubt anything anyone can say would distract you from "FF=satan" viewpoint.
    I take that you don't believe that anyone who ever voted FF should be allowed excersise their franchise again either!

    I don't think FF = Satan

    I just don't like misrepresenters, liars, thieves, perjurers, traitors, etc etc

    In this specific case I am taking exception to FFs misrepresentation of themselves.


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    #40
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar , were you at the protest yourself. ?

    I am asking only because you asked me the same question.
    I was not there , I don't have anyone with educational special needs in my family / friends and I don't support any party or group that needs to get a photo ( or any party for that matter).


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    #41
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    Yep, I was there. Was standing near Buswells myself so I must have been quite close to idiottje.


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    #42
    golfball37
    Registered Users Posts: 4,525 ✭✭✭golfball37


    If FF supporters believe only crazies hold them responsible for most of the things that destroyed this country, then there is no hope for them.


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    #43
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Yep, I was there. Was standing near Buswells myself so I must have been quite close to idiottje.

    Why were you there ? As a Fianna Fail activist?

    What was your specific protest ?


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    #44
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    Why were you there ? As a Fianna Fail activist?

    What was your specific protest ?


    What is this, an inquisition? Why exactly does it matter to you?


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    #45
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    What is this, an inquisition? Why exactly does it matter to you?

    You asked me if I was there and I answered why I was not.

    Sorry to have struck a raw nerve.... I was just returning your question back at you

    So can I ask you - what was FF protesting about specifically ?


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    #46
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Just to jog the memories of Fianna Fail here is a special needs cuts protest from 2009

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEyGOuBGGWo

    In addition Fianna Fail have wasted 10s of millions of Euro in the courts blocking special needs cases.

    The amnesia of Fianna Fail is staggering.


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    #47
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    No problem. This fella, who is a well known serial agitator by the name of Greg Kerr, also happens to be a member of the Workers Solidarity Movement - which is an anarchist organization. Satisfied?

    He spends his life trying to infiltrate protests with the view to causing disruption, mainly due to the fact that few want anything to do with the Workers Solidarity Movement. It telling that he didn't bring along a WSM banner, nor did any of the other serial WSM agitators.

    You have said numerous times that you are a Fianna Fáil supporter so don't be surprised if no one is going to take what you say at face value.


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    #48
    OCorcrainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 428 ✭✭OCorcrainn


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Fianna Fáil introduced SNA's in the first place. Between 1997 and 2011 the number of SNA's increased from 300 to just under 10,000.

    Sources please.


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    #49
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    OCorcrainn wrote: »
    Sources please.

    The numbers are technically correct. However( surprise , surprise) they are not the full story.

    If you take the last 2.5 years of the FF mess the number of SNAs were cut . There were protests over these savage cuts.


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    #50
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    I suppose we can hardly expect raymon to post the latest Journal article on this matter, which highlights that a small but vocal group sought to hijack the protest?
    At a protest outside Leinster House in Dublin last night, which was attended by around 700 people, when Fianna Fáil Deputy Micheál Martin spoke to parents, SNAs and members of disability rights groups, he was heckled by a small number of people in the crowd.

    The usual agitators did themselves no good by detracting from the issue at hand last night.


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    #51
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    I suppose we can hardly expect raymon to post the latest Journal article on this matter, which highlights that a small but vocal group sought to hijack the protest?



    The usual agitators did themselves no good by detracting from the issue at hand last night.

    This whole episode was a major embarrassment to FF. The respinning of the original story must have been hard work for the FF press office.

    Shame on them all for exploiting the vulnerable.


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    #52
    jobeenfitz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭jobeenfitz


    raymon wrote: »
    This whole episode was a major embarrassment to FF. The respinning of the original story must have been hard work for the FF press office.

    Shame on them all for exploiting the vulnerable.

    Shame! Ya must be joking. Politicians and shame would be like politicians and truth imo.


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    #53
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra , can you tell us specifically what FF were protesting about? It is very confusing for me

    Thanks


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    #54
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    raymon wrote: »
    Sierra , can you tell us specifically what FF were protesting about? It is very confusing for me

    Thanks

    The reason is stated in the journal.ie article in your own OP. Thread is just going round in circles if posters aren't even going to read their own articles properly.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #55
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    K-9 wrote: »
    The reason is stated in the journal.ie article in your own OP. Thread is just going round in circles if posters aren't even going to read their own articles properly.
    The proposed cuts were reversed so the motive of the FF protest is not clear.


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    #56
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    The proposed cuts were reversed so the motive of the FF protest is not clear.

    Some of the matters relating to assistant teachers were resolved, but the matters relating to special needs assistance's were not.


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    #57
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra , just one more question . Are the two " Ogra" guys in the green tshirts really primarily members of the youth wing or are they higher ranking members of Fianna Fail itself?


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    #58
    crusher000
    Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭crusher000


    raymon wrote: »
    Sierra , just one more question . Are the two " Ogra" guys in the green tshirts really primarily members of the youth wing or are they higher ranking members?


    Two more well fed "Fat Cats". The new litter coming up the ranks. I was there in 2013 front line protesting against the cuts. In our manifesto.... ( for hire campaign writer for the scum in next elections as long as the pay goes into the ,00000)


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    #59
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    If they wanted to protest let them protest but don't turn up in Party issued clothing, drawing attention to themselves


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    #60
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,460 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    raymon wrote: »
    Sierra , just one more question . Are the two " Ogra" guys in the green tshirts really primarily members of the youth wing or are they higher ranking members of Fianna Fail itself?

    Both are very active Ógra members if what I hear is correct.
    norrie rugger wrote: »
    If they wanted to protest let them protest but don't turn up in Party issued clothing, drawing attention to themselves

    In fairness, I would tend to agree with you there. I would imagine it was a genuine oversight, but if I was organizing the demonstration I would try and make sure that anyone involved has access to the clothing issued by the demonstration organizers themselves. Although it wouldn't surprise me if they ran out of such clothing, as I saw plenty of people from all parties wearing the demonstration clothing and then more who were in their own clothing or FF / SF clothing etc.


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    #61
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Both are very active Ógra members if what I hear is correct.
    .

    Is that their primary function in FF or are they higher elected officials misrepresenting themselves as ogra ?


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