Biased refs

Stoner

celt262 wrote: »

I would disagree as would the lads doing commentary on BBC, very inconsistent and alot of soft frees went the way of Donegal.

They are hard calls though particularly when teams go looking for it, grab their face and lie motionless on the ground, only to win a free ands get up without a mark on them. It must be a very difficult job. I enjoyed the game myself.

PaddyCar

Can someone answer me this? If a free is awarded and the offending play backchats or holds up a quick free and the ref rightly decides to bring the free forward, how far should it be brought up?
I always thought it was 10yards but in the Donegal/Down game yesterday the ref seemed to bring bringing it up 20-30 yards each time.

keane2097

PaddyCar wrote: »

Can someone answer me this? If a free is awarded and the offending play backchats or holds up a quick free and the ref rightly decides to bring the free forward, how far should it be brought up?
I always thought it was 10yards but in the Donegal/Down game yesterday the ref seemed to bring bringing it up 20-30 yards each time.

It's ten metres or 14 yards. There was a struck down motion to increase it to 30 metres at GAA Congress this year which would have been great.

Wouldn't be too sorry to see Pat instruct his refs to be more generous with it on their own initiative.

premierstone

lol only KK lads could turn this into a thread about them, the scary thing about it is they actually believe this victim rubbish, I tell you Cody is more than a brilliant manager he has the whole feckin lot of them brainwashed and signing of the same hymnsheet, genius!

They spent the last 5 years laughing and goading Tipp, and still do, that they are soft and wouldn't go into a dark room etc. then after Padraic Mahers one bad challenge (the second one was a freak accident) Tipp are suddenly bullies and the poor auld mites on Noreside need more protection from the refs :rolleyes: Twas all good honest manly stuff according to Sir Brian untill one of their lads got hurt, now its out of control and something needs to be done, lol seriously you couldn't make it up! There have been plenty of lads on the receiving end of KK down through the years but they seem to have forgotten all them??

zetecescort

For the last ten years or so there has been two sure signs of summer, the swallows returning and Cody or former players coming out with the "manliness, physical game" ****e to cover their pulling and dragging. Sure, everybody does it but KK has got the refs to let it go. "Let the game flow"

Martin567

premierstone wrote: »

lol only KK lads could turn this into a thread about them, the scary thing about it is they actually believe this victim rubbish, I tell you Cody is more than a brilliant manager he has the whole feckin lot of them brainwashed and signing of the same hymnsheet, genius!

They spent the last 5 years laughing and goading Tipp, and still do, that they are soft and wouldn't go into a dark room etc. then after Padraic Mahers one bad challenge (the second one was a freak accident) Tipp are suddenly bullies and the poor auld mites on Noreside need more protection from the refs :rolleyes: Twas all good honest manly stuff according to Sir Brian untill one of their lads got hurt, now its out of control and something needs to be done, lol seriously you couldn't make it up! There have been plenty of lads on the receiving end of KK down through the years but they seem to have forgotten all them??

In fairness, this is complete nonsense. Please stop trying to pretend the Michael Rice incident was a complete accident. Swinging a hurl one handed two feet above the ball like a slashers cutting nettles is just plain reckless. It is a fact that two Kilkenny players suffered long-term injuries as a result of serious foul play last year that went unpunished by the officials. In 14 years under Brian Cody, Kilkenny have never inflicted anything remotely similar on any opponent.

premierstone

Martin567 wrote: »

In fairness, this is complete nonsense. Please stop trying to pretend the Michael Rice incident was a complete accident. Swinging a hurl one handed two feet above the ball like a slashers cutting nettles is just plain reckless. It is a fact that two Kilkenny players suffered long-term injuries as a result of serious foul play last year that went unpunished by the officials. In 14 years under Brian Cody, Kilkenny have never inflicted anything remotely similar on any opponent.

lol are you fcukin serious, tell me what was your opinion on the ''treatment'' that was handed out to Seamus Hickey in an AI final.

There are plenty of other examples aswell but that one sticks out as the most blatant and quite frankly embarrassing treatment of an apposition player.

antoobrien

Martin567 wrote: »

In 14 years under Brian Cody, Kilkenny have never inflicted anything remotely similar on any opponent.

Not for lack of trying by a certain wing back.

premierstone

antoobrien wrote: »

Not for lack of trying by a certain wing back.

Jaysus he wasn't on he's own he had plenty of assistance from two of he's FB line aswell, the afore mentioned wing back wasn't happy with just targeting the opposition either, he's moved on to the officials!

Martin567

premierstone wrote: »

lol are you fcukin serious, tell me what was your opinion on the ''treatment'' that was handed out to Seamus Hickey in an AI final.

There are plenty of other examples aswell but that one sticks out as the most blatant and quite frankly embarrassing treatment of an apposition player.

I remember Eddie Brennan could well have been red-carded for a dig on a Limerick player but I thought it was Stephen Lucey? The only thing I remember with Seamus Hickey is Shefflin connecting with a perfect shoulder when he was too slow to pick up a ball.

When Brian Cody spoke about manly hurling, he was never referring to striking an opponent with a hurl. Of course Kilkenny have been guilty of this on a few occasions too. However, they have been on the receiving end of about five serious fouls over the last few years that have gone way beyond anything they ever inflicted on anyone.

toxicity234

WumBuster wrote: »

There has been major uproar over the refereeing performance in the SHC qualifier on Saturday that took place between Offaly and Waterford. In the course of the game the referee in question awarded for all to witness, numerous baffling decisions to his neighboring county Offaly against the Deise men, who in their own fortune and in spite of this, came out on top in the closely contested game.
Its crazy that a ref could be biased like that in an intercounty senior hurling match. Id understand a ref giving a free for a team 10 pts down against Kilkenny but what went on today in a match against two evenly matched teams was ridiculous. The ref is supposed to be impartial, this needs to be looked at seriously by the powers that be. This cant go on in the GAA, its too common.

I have to disagree with this. The ref was ok on Sat night. he gave as much to waterford as he did to Offalys. Offaly had Walsh under pressure and he was pulling jersey and grabing hurls allover the place and getting away with it. He even rugby tackle Mahon at one stage and got a free out for it.

Offaly had as much to complain about as Waterford on Sat night. The only thing is Offaly were complain about the 1st and Waterford were complain about the 2nd.


he got all 3 peno calls correct.
he could be accused of in the second half even up the free count for the first half when the waterford back got away with murder a few time.

Deise Hurler

toxicity234 wrote: »

I have to disagree with this. The ref was ok on Sat night. he gave as much to waterford as he did to Offalys. Offaly had Walsh under pressure and he was pulling jersey and grabing hurls allover the place and getting away with it. He even rugby tackle Mahon at one stage and got a free out for it.

Offaly had as much to complain about as Waterford on Sat night. The only thing is Offaly were complain about the 1st and Waterford were complain about the 2nd.


he got all 3 peno calls correct.
he could be accused of in the second half even up the free count for the first half when the waterford back got away with murder a few time.

Haha, we must have been watching different games.
He didn't get the penalty calls right. When seamus pendergast was rugby tackled by yere full back to the ground and a free out was given it just took the piss. Have since watched it back on tv and it was the most blatant penalty i have ever seen. Waterford fans are of course going to be biased towards their team but every one of them i have met since has given out stink about James McGrath. Hopefully he never gets a Waterford game ever again.

rebel girl 15

Interesting article by John Bannon on it http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/mcgrath-wrong-choice-for-deise-game-234970.html

LeoB

Whether a ref is from a neighbouring county or not should not come into a match and to be fair I dont think it would. Dublin had to put up with Tommy "Hoppy" Howard who most thought was an awful referee. I thought he gave a few soft frees to Offaly but its hard to look at a game any day now and we could make that point about most referees.

From what I saw on Sunday of the Donegal and Down match Donegal got frees a lot easier than Down. They were over physical on many occasions and got away with it. In fairness to Jim McGuinness he has his lads playing right on the edge and he is getting away with it for now.

toxicity234

John Bannon hates Offaly more than any man in the world.
i have no idea why but he has never writing any thing good about Offaly.
I very very funny read what he write about us.

TheCoolWay

eire 2012 wrote: »

You get used to it if your from kilkenny most days they are a few points down before the ball is thrown in.The margin only varies by who is in the middle last nights refs county man being the worst offender.A few frees can be overcome most of the time but the lack of protection for kilkenny players is a joke at this stage it's fair game now to break up kilkenny players in the knowledge that you will be unlikely to receive a booking.There is plenty of examples in the last year for all to see .

This is absolute rubbish Kilkenny get everything! You drunk?

eire 2012

TheCoolWay wrote: »

This is absolute rubbish Kilkenny get everything! You drunk?

Please explain because kilkenny are being reffed completely different to their opponents for a long time now.They have been winning a bit and everybody is fed up of this and it's influencing officials.All kilkenny inter county teams are suffering because of the seniors success tonight's u21 match being another lob sided refereeing performance

premierstone

eire 2012 wrote: »

Please explain because kilkenny are being reffed completely different to their opponents for a long time now.They have been winning a bit and everybody is fed up of this and it's influencing officials.All kilkenny inter county teams are suffering benefiting because of the seniors success tonight's u21 match being another lob sided refereeing performance

I agree with every single word of this.

vermin99

Lads though think about your a ref you have few thousand people screaming at ya for a free or not they'll obviously make mistakes and that's fine by me,but when a ref heads on and continously calls bad decisions etc it ain't on! And as regards to dirty swings and pulls ye deserve to be sent off for some but I'd say 80% of pulls are done in the heat of the moment but it'd up to the ref to decide whether it was accidntal or not.........just my view(also a kk man).

faithfulfan

Hurling is a contact sport and is always going to be difficult to ref, I can only guess that the OP's remarks were somewhat in the heat of the moment after what was a closer than expected call for Waterford, although there were mistakes that went both ways and it was reffed fairly well overall.

As for "eire 2012" reply, well that's fairly fanciful, Offaly were reffed off the park again KK, to be honest some of it was deserved but a lot was down to cuteness by experienced KK players drawing fouls.

Parlon first foul was an attempt to block a hand pass, the KK players fall was very exaggerated but it deserved a free. The second foul is a bit of a grey area, the skill of doubling on a dropping is a great skill in hurling, it resulted in what I would describe as the save of the season by the Waterford keeper at the end of the match on Saturday evening.

Parlon had every right to go for the dropping ball, and it was obvious early on in the match that Offaly were first timing everything with a lot of success. True he caught the players hand and it was rightly awarded as a free. But he caught the player hand because players are coached to protect themselves when catching by putting the hand holding the hurl up behind them, putting it between Parlon and the ball. You learn fairly early in hurling that putting up you hand in that situation is a judgement call and in a lot of cases at your own risk.

eire 2012 wrote: »

Please explain because kilkenny are being reffed completely different to their opponents for a long time now.They have been winning a bit and everybody is fed up of this and it's influencing officials.All kilkenny inter county teams are suffering because of the seniors success tonight's u21 match being another lob sided refereeing performance

:rolleyes:

Watched the match last night and a very good game it was, however the worst piece of foul play I saw was near the end of the match when a KK forward went down with minimal contact and was awarded a free. The camera zoomed in and caught the smile on his face as he pretended to be hurt and fixed his helmet. To say the ref was lob sided is BS.

There was a similar incident on Sunday for the second last KK point where a Dublin player missed with a shoulder but the ref gave a free because of the theatrical dive. If you are going to whinge about refs at least try to have some veneer of impartiality.

eire 2012

premierstone wrote: »

I agree with every single word of this.

Very good of you to edit my post but if that's what you believe your very similar to David Drumm your talking from where he pulled the figures of money he was looking for.


As for faithful fan you don't block a hand pass by hitting the player over the head first.On the tj Reid incident parlon was entitled to go for the ball only problem was there was no ball where he swung his hurl.Your also correct that players are coached to protect their catching hand with the hurl but its usually done with the boss of the hurl parlon hit the hand holding the hurl so he was swinging along way from where the ball was.

At the end of the day all supporters will see things different happening to their team that should be a free to them etc etc.The media are out for Kk easy see this after Sunday game last week hi lighting power holding Dublin player but two weeks earlier not a mention on Sunday game of the two serious incident in the Offaly game .Facts are facts I'm afraid

faithfulfan

eire 2012 wrote: »

As for faithful fan you don't block a hand pass by hitting the player over the head first.On the tj Reid incident parlon was entitled to go for the ball only problem was there was no ball where he swung his hurl.Your also correct that players are coached to protect their catching hand with the hurl but its usually done with the boss of the hurl parlon hit the hand holding the hurl so he was swinging along way from where the ball was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKRFX3lqcek

2.49 - Parlon attempts a block, hurls and hand are tangled in the lead up and Reids own hurl is up, the knock to the helmet/head, it is clearly accidental and Parlons reaction is telling as is Reids somewhat over reaction. Result free to KK and Yellow Card.

2.55 - You are wrong Parlon is clearly fallowing the trajectory of the ball and its there to be won. The pull however catches both the hand and the hurl which are between him and the ball, I admit its reckless play but in not particularly dirty play or a premeditated attempt to injure.
Result free to KK.

Both incidents were punished and highlighted on the Sunday Game which kind of fly's in the face of your conspiracy theory. The KK incident in the run up to the goal against Dublin went unpunished and resulted in a score for KK. In fact the same thing happened last night in the first half where a KK back held an Offaly players hurl/hand, result free out KK.

Mistakes are made both ways and in fairness most even minded people accept that, but if anything the big teams usually get the rub of the green due to experience and the clout they have behind them. The very existance of the back door system bears this out.

robbiezero

faithfulfan wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKRFX3lqcek

2.49 - Parlon attempts a block, hurls and hand are tangled in the lead up and Reids own hurl is up, the knock to the helmet/head, it is clearly accidental and Parlons reaction is telling as is Reids somewhat over reaction. Result free to KK and Yellow Card.

2.55 - You are wrong Parlon is clearly fallowing the trajectory of the ball and its there to be won. The pull however catches both the hand and the hurl which are between him and the ball, I admit its reckless play but in not particularly dirty play or a premeditated attempt to injure.
Result free to KK.

Both incidents were punished and highlighted on the Sunday Game which kind of fly's in the face of your conspiracy theory. The KK incident in the run up to the goal against Dublin went unpunished and resulted in a score for KK. In fact the same thing happened last night in the first half where a KK back held an Offaly players hurl/hand, result free out KK.

Mistakes are made both ways and in fairness most even minded people accept that, but if anything the big teams usually get the rub of the green due to experience and the clout they have behind them. The very existance of the back door system bears this out.

Re Parlon in the Offaly v KK game:
First incident was harmless enough, probably just about deserving of a yellow card.
Felt the second incident was far worse, a very wild and dangerous pull on the hand holding the hurley protecting his catching hand. Reid was very lucky his arm/hand wasn't broken.
Straight red card in my opinion. Players could do serious damage if allowed to pull across protecting hand.

premierstone

faithfulfan wrote: »

Mistakes are made both ways and in fairness most even minded people accept that, but if anything the big teams usually get the rub of the green due to experience and the clout they have behind them. The very existance of the back door system bears this out.

The backdoor was brought in in order to give the weaker counties more games, it was championed and venomently supported by your own county FWIW, admittedly the concept hasn't had the desired affect as it merely gives the stronger teams a second bite if they have an off day. I haven't seen any motion or proposal from any county to revert to knockout though which kind of contradicts your conspiracy theory.

Speak Now

faithfulfan wrote: »

Watched the match last night and a very good game it was, however the worst piece of foul play I saw was near the end of the match when a KK forward went down with minimal contact and was awarded a free. The camera zoomed in and caught the smile on his face as he pretended to be hurt and fixed his helmet. .

In fairness that was an obvious foul, he had just released the ball and the second defender went in on him high. Was just a pure frustration tackle with the game slipping away. The commentators thought is was soft until they saw the replay. No problem grinning when you get a free, i've seen some give the fist

Wouldnt have any issue with the referees performances from last Sunday or last night. No one is going to get all the calls right.

faithfulfan

robbiezero wrote: »

Re Parlon in the Offaly v KK game:
First incident was harmless enough, probably just about deserving of a yellow card.
Felt the second incident was far worse, a very wild and dangerous pull on the hand holding the hurley protecting his catching hand. Reid was very lucky his arm/hand wasn't broken.
Straight red card in my opinion. Players could do serious damage if allowed to pull across protecting hand.

Just to make it clear I do reckon a free was fair for the first incident and a free and yellow for the second, I feel it would have been a very harsh sending off.

Why do I think it was not a red?
First of all he was going for the ball with no intent to cause injury being committed does not = being dirty (the Benny Dunne incident in the all Ireland is an example of a similar incident where a straight red was fully deserved)

Secondly as I said the ball is there to be won its not in his hand and this makes it a very grey area. I've seen players try to block with there feet, is it a free if you inadvertently injure a player attempting this?
The rule on players lying on the ball was brought in because players were preventing a contest for the ball and pulling would most defiantly be a sending off.

Hurling rules resembled shinty for most of its history and the rules have not changed much, up to 20 years ago you put up your hand at your own risk as the ball is in open play and players are entitled to go for it. It then comes down to interpretation had he just caught the hurl I reckon it would not even have been a free or had the player not stopped to hold his hand its also unlikely there would have been a free.

faithfulfan

premierstone wrote: »

The backdoor was brought in in order to give the weaker counties more games, it was championed and venomently supported by your own county FWIW, admittedly the concept hasn't had the desired affect as it merely gives the stronger teams a second bite if they have an off day. I haven't seen any motion or proposal from any county to revert to knockout though which kind of contradicts your conspiracy theory.

Wrong, at least try and get the facts right:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/backdoor-to-stay-despite-offaly-vote-26171043.html

It was never about giving the weaker counties a fighting chance. It was all about giving the big three a second chance Feck the smaller counties when they're gone early but if its the big boys theres obviously something wrong and the rules need to be changed to accommodate them.

premierstone

faithfulfan wrote: »

Wrong, at least try and get the facts right:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/backdoor-to-stay-despite-offaly-vote-26171043.html

It was never about giving the weaker counties a fighting chance. It was all about giving the big three a second chance Feck the smaller counties when they're gone early but if its the big boys theres obviously something wrong and the rules need to be changed to accommodate them.

That article is from 1998, I said that when the back door was introduced Offaly were in favour of it. If the whole thing was only designed for the big three ( a laughable arguement tbf as they were nowhere near that at the time) how did it ever get passed or how has it remained?? Do Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp get extra votes because they have won more AI's?? 15 years ago Offally voted to remove it, motion was overwhelmingly defeated and there hasn't been a mig since.

Infact the current system in place was introduced in 2008 and Offally supported it

Martin567

faithfulfan - you're being very generous to Parlon for his foul on TJ Reid. If he had caught Reid on the right hand, I would have had no complaints. The ball was there to be won. The problem was that he hit the left hand. He was at least two feet away from making contact with the ball and could have had few complaints if he received a straight red.

faithfulfan

premierstone wrote: »

That article is from 1998, I said that when the back door was introduced Offaly were in favour of it. If the whole thing was only designed for the big three ( a laughable arguement tbf as they were nowhere near that at the time) how did it ever get passed or how has it remained?? Do Kilkenny, Cork and Tipp get extra votes because they have won more AI's?? 15 years ago Offally voted to remove it, motion was overwhelmingly defeated and there hasn't been a mig since.

Infact the current system in place was introduced in 2008 and Offally supported it

You do know that the bigger counties carry more voting power especially in hurling as most of the others counties don't give a flying about hurling. The indo article shows Offaly were clearly opposed to the back door or do you have evidence to the contrary?

It is of now real benifit for weaker sides as it will always favor the bigger counties and reduces the impact of upsets, bigger counties are better equipped to regroup and change personnel.

The structure is flawed to begin with so its all academic. Just not enough countys take hurling seriously. The league should be 12 teams so at least most counties start on a level pegging. The All-Ireland is meant to be a cup competition so why is there a safety net? Start the championship in July all 12 teams in an open draw.