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Going for a full Ps1 Collection
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
Was listening to retronauts and I think it was either Chris Kohler or Ray Barnholt who owned a game store at the launch of FFVII and they said half the copies were returned by people saying they didn't know you had to read in the game
You have to remember it was sold on TV on it's cutscenes, the game was never sold. A nice stealth tactic by Square to get more people to pick up an RPG when they normally wouldn't.
I remember at the time I used to laugh at RPGs and say they were crap. At the time one of the my favourite games was Shining Force but I didn't even realise it was an RPG so that tells you everything 
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
You had me play them on original hardware and although it might not have been for long, I wanted to break your CDi :pac:
That side scrolling one was akin to Dark Castle.
Well the controls when you are jumping are pretty terrible and the delay in getting your shield up takes a while to get used. It's unfortunately one of those games you have to put a little time into before it clicks and you start enjoying it. Those jumping sections are pretty unforgivable in fairness It doesn't help that you have to use third party controllers on the machine as well like the squeaky piece of **** I had!
FFVII was massive of release, it's the second best selling game on the system ever. I don't think it's for kids aged 6 or 7. Christ I only got my first C64 on the Christmas just before my 8th birthday! Kids these days!
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Retr0gamer wrote: »Was listening to retronauts and I think it was either Chris Kohler or Ray Barnholt who owned a game store at the launch of FFVII and they said half the copies were returned by people saying they didn't know you had to read in the game You have to remember it was sold on TV on it's cutscenes, the game was never sold. A nice stealth tactic by Square to get more people to pick up an RPG when they normally wouldn't.
I remember at the time I used to laugh at RPGs and say they were crap. At the time one of the my favourite games was Shining Force but I didn't even realise it was an RPG so that tells you everything
maybe i'm a bit older, but when ff7 came out everyone i knew was raving about it, it was a huge hit IMO, a natural progression from the more child orientated zelda series for many. back in those days everyone bought gaming mags so i cant see how any would be under the illusion it was anything other than what it was?0 -
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melekalikimaka wrote: »maybe i'm a bit older, but when ff7 came out everyone i knew was raving about it, it was a huge hit IMO, a natural progression from the more child orientated zelda series for many. back in those days everyone bought gaming mags so i cant see how any would be under the illusion it was anything other than what it was?
He's talking about Legend of Dragoon being crap, not FF VII
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
melekalikimaka wrote: »maybe i'm a bit older, but when ff7 came out everyone i knew was raving about it, it was a huge hit IMO, a natural progression from the more child orientated zelda series for many. back in those days everyone bought gaming mags so i cant see how any would be under the illusion it was anything other than what it was?
Not everyone is as clued in as most other people and you have to remember that this happened in 'murica. As for FFVII being a natural progression from zelda, zelda isn't a RPG. FFVII really didn't make much progression as a game since Chrono Trigger and FFVI came before it and it's very similar. To us europeans it seemed new since we never got those games.I would definately reccomend it before final Fantasy 7 because if theirs a game thats over rated..it deserves a prize.
I'd recommend FFVII first because it's actually fun and generic and dull. I could see LoD actually putting people off RPGs. My girlfriend played LoD recently. She had to give up after an hour it was so bad. Youtube reviewers are as bad as the IGN crowd. Just look at youtube reviews of Goldeneye just to see how much nostalgia can colour reviews. It's near unplayable now but many will claim it's still one of the best FPS games ever made. A good reviewer will be able to look back on stuff objectively without nostalgia colouring their view.
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
Also if Legend of Dragoon is a rip off of Final Fantasy.
Final Fantasy is a rip off of Dragon quest/warrior.
FF1 was a rip off of Dragon Quest however I'd actually say it's more a rip off of Wizardry with art stolen from D&D rulebooks. After FF1, Dragon Quest stayed quietly innovating slowly while FF differentiated itself by totally reinventing it's gameplay with every entry. FF and Dragon Quest are very different beasts and it's FF's reinvention with each iteration which defines the series.
Now were LoD rips off FFVII is in it's story. To give the game credit the battle system is very different even if it's terrible and cribs from Mario RPG or FFVIII's gunblade more than anything. LoD is so obviously designed by marketing men that instead of making a game they wanted to play they looked at what was popular and stole from it. So you have a character with mysterious past that acts like an asshole. You spend most of the game chasing after a Sephiroth clone for half the game just like in FFVII. They also try to make you like a character ( and utterly fail, he's a totally boring goody too shoes cardboard cut-out ) who he then kills. They managed to really mess that up, I was delighted he was going to die and saw it coming a mile away. He might as well have been shouting 'love me, I want you to feel when I die!'.
There was no originality there. While FFVII fails at being deep and meaningful at least it tries. LoD on the other hand just has you chasing after MacGuffins with silly names, the modus operandi of dull RPGs with no originality.
It's just so designed by committee. It's trying to be everything to everyone and failing miserably to do any of it due to a deep misunderstanding of story, it's audience and how JRPGs work. It's like the Resident Evil 6 of JRPGs.
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
Goldeneye was one of the most important FPS games ever made. Unlike stuff like Halo which where very similar to stuff on PC, Goldeneye differentiated itslef and managed to hugely affect the way FPS games were made. At the time there wasn't much else comparable to it until Half-Life came along.
And well it's Half -Life that ruined Goldeneye. Everything before Half-Life seemed dated because it was such a huge advancement for the genre.
While I think Goldeneye was hugely important it's very old hat now. It's been totally surpassed by later games in the genre.
The biggest factor affecting how it plays is the framerate. It runs at a maximum of 30 FPS but it never hits that cap and usually hovers at an inconsistent 15-20 FPS. As a noob game designer I know that for an action game like Goldeneye 15-20 FPS is aboslutely criminal and introduces horrendous lag into the controls. It means that now that Goldeneye isn't the height of technical and gameplay innovation in the genre you can't forgive that low frame rate that makes the game today near unplayable. It's unfortunately what happens in a genre like FPS were the goal posts are constantly taking massive strides forward and leaving older games seem so dated.
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
Games and films are different though. I mean if something like Goldeneye is held back by technical limitations and it doesn't play well because of them it's just not right to pretend that these limitations don't exist when they do.
In terms of films as well it's not a great analogy. If the effects don't hold up then they don't but does it spoil the film? More than likely not. When it's something like Goldeneye and it's framerate which actively does affect your enjoyment of the game (you can say it doesn't but you are lying to yourself. Take it from a game developer, lower framerate severely hampers play control) then is it right to ignore that as well.
I'm all for objective criticism. Goldeneye doesn't hold up and it's not objective criticism to say otherwise, you are letting nostalgia cloud your judgement if you say it doesn't. However it's also not objective criticism to also mention and celebrate just how important a game it was.
As for dismissing all old FPS games, it's true a lot don't hold up but stuff like Blood and System Shock are still amazing experiences while there's absolutely nothing like Doom and how it plays like a cross between Gauntlet and Robotron in 3D. Aged graphics won't take away you enjoyment of a game but a bad framerate will, there's no denying that. Yes new games have a problem with framerate being locked to 30FPS and with V-Sync. It's not ideal but it is a consistent framerate that drops below 30 rarely. Goldeneye on the other hand never reaches it's 30 FPS limit (well sometimes. Walk right up to a wall and stare at it and the controls and framerate become so much smoother). In fact the framerate hovers around 15-20 and is inconsistent which really affects gameplay. Set off an explosion and that framerate dips to 5 or below.
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@Enternow, you'll notice that stuff that does age well is usually something that works within the limitations of the medium. Films like Starship Troopers look have great looking CGI because they didn't use it often and complimented it with models and using amputees for the stunts. They knew they couldn't pull the whole lot off with CGI so they didn't bother (except with that scene of Rico on the Bug). Lots of other films then have really ropey CGI.
It's kind of the same with games, make a game that works within the limitations of the system and it will never age.
Then again where would we be if games didn't push the boundaries. Stuff like Starfox, Goldeneye, Elite. GTA 3 should never been attempted on they systems they were but by doing it they pushed the industry forward and made gaming a richer place.
So it's best to look at things both ways. Yes Goldeneye is barely playable but it's worth playing and analysing as a history lesson because if it didn't happen we would have been playing bad Doom clones for a lot longer and stuff like Thief that are directly influenced would never have happened. Even though Goldeneye had really ropey stealth mechanics that liked to break it predated MGS and Thief.
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
I've made a few demos, made a game in a gamejam competition and currently finishing up an iOS app and handing it over to the client at the end of the month. I'm the lead programmer on the game aspect of it. You can deny it all you like but framerate severely impacts on playabilit, it's a fact. Sure just read some digital foundry articles, it always comes up. I ran into it myself. Had to use Stencyl for my first game demo. I was quite proud of it but stencyl being a slow piece of **** slowed my game down to 25 fps so it wasn't nearly as smooth as I'd hoped for.
And no, as I said in my post the film analogy doesn't hold true. You can't just compare games with film, it's a strawman argument and doesn't hold up anyway. You're completely miss understanding the point I'm trying to raise. I also think Enternow is agreeing with me as well but I'll let him reply to that.
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Join Date:Posts: 50074
You don't have to be an expert in 3D games to know that framerate affects playability in a big way. If you had a modded console with a 50/60 Hz switch you can see for yourself that even the 10 FPS difference between PAL and NTSC makes a massive difference to playability. Again you can bury your head in the sand about this but it's not going to make you right.
As for being spoiled by new technology. no I haven't. Framerates have gotten worse in console games. 30FPS is standard now and then when you shove on v-sync, triple buffering and even deferred rendering engines on top you get even more control latency. It's like a lot of developers have gone backwards in this regard.
I'd consider myself quite open minded in my opinions about games. I make up my own mind about them and don't let reviewers make up my mind for me. I used to get serious flak a few years ago if I dare mention Goldeneye having not aged well. Now I find most gamers have the same opinion and even many publications have changed their tune. I'm not saying you can't have fun with goldeneye but with those technical difficulties severely hampering playability it's a real chore to play.
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Finally got My destructo 2,its one the rarest ps1 games
but theres quite a few sealed on ebay due to a factory find in germany recently
and they are not very expensive due to people not really knowing about it.
The deal feel through with Hercs adventure because its a very hard to find game
even online sometimes but its extremely hard to find game if your looking for the UK/Irish version variant
in particular with the english text on the back.Your lucky to see one show up on ebay
every 6 months to a year.Similar to rule of rose just rarer.
The guy I was getting mine from told me it was a UK variant but end up being
Italian or French so thats why I haven't got that yet.
(I used a stick image because I cant find my camera to take a picture)0
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