Window Shopping - Rimfire

Cass

Continuing on from my original thread about a rimfire recommendation i decided with the day that was in it to go on a window shopping exercise. Grabbed the Father, and a shooting buddy and headed off.

Decided to skip my usual dealers and go to a few i have not used or have not visited in a while. I went to one shop i have not used at all, and was frankly disappointed especially with all the talk of the bargains and deals to be got. When i asked about rifles i was told he had none, and when i asked about a strong room/gun room or some shotguns to view i was told he usually get to order. Selection of ammo was average, and other than that it was a let down.

Went to two other shops i have not set foot in for over 2 years. Simply because it was a drive, and normally i couldn't be arsed. The first was completely changed from the last time. They had an average selection but had a great selection of Rugers. Was sorely tempted to put down a deposit, but didn't as i knew i had more looking to do. Prices were higher than i have been quoted elsewhere, but at least they were there, and not just a promise of getting one. The second shop had a large selection, but disappointingly of different models of the same brand. By that i mean it was mostly 2 or 3 brands but different models, and most of them were centerfire and the selection of rimfires was poor. Only spent a little time there then left.

Onto the fourth shop (Connolly's Redmll, Goresbridge) and between driving, and the time spent in each shop the day was drawing to a close. So it was the last stop of the day. I had been in the shop once or twice before, but as i was working it was a passing visit. The gun room is smaller than most, i knew this before going in, but as soon as i walked in there was a line of excellent Beretta shotguns on the right.Some new, some secondhand, but all in excellent condition. About 10 of them. Then on the right side a line of more shtguns and semi auto. Beretta, Browning, Baikal, Miroku, Ata, Fabarm, Bettinsoli, etc. All in all the selection was more varied, and much better than the other shops with bigger amounts.

Then on the back wall was a nice selection of rimfires. CZ 452 & 455, Anschutz, Browning T-bolt, Marlin, Ruger, Puma, etc. Again a smaller number of guns, but much better variety. Prices were good. Better than any other shop. Was talking to the lads there and a nice pair of lads they were. Pleasant, helpful, and not pushy while also dealing with other customers.


So to get to the point. I've been having doubts about going for a Ruger. The inherent inaccuracy, the price tag almost the same as a CZ, etc is putting me off. Another bolt action .22lr seems redundant with the Annie sitting in the safe. Then Joe starts telling me about his .17hmr. Unlike others with their tall tales of 300+ yard shots with one, he gave his own opinion, and the pros and cons of owning a .17 without trying to push a particular brand. I picked up the CZ 455 and they are nice. Held one before, but it seemed "better" than i remember it. I have a scope, rail, rings, etc already from my years of owning CZ's so all i need is the rifle, and while the ammo is a little more expensive i'm almost completely sold on the idea of going for the 455 in .17hmr.

So to those that own .17, regardless of make/model, and to those that own a CZ455 i'd appreciate some feedback on the caliber, and the rifle itself. Particularly the ability of the mod to reduce the shot. Preferred ammo, set up options, and make of moderator being used.


Plan on hitting a couple more places tomorrow. Heading to Thurles so if anyone has any dealers to recommend in that general area i'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

garv123

I don't think you'll regret the 17.

The one thing Ive being always saying about mine if I was to change it for another is I wouldn't go for a heavy barrel.
Its unnecessary weight and I know people say its a heavy barrel can be held more steadily but thats not worth it IMO
2 of my friends have the 455 and ive fired a few of rounds with one. As uncomfortable as feck for me being a lefty so thats invalid but I did find them very heavy for rimfire.

As regards the calibre itself. 300 yards targets i suppose would be possible. people do 200 plus with a .22 but Id assume you'd need ballistic software and all that jazz. For hunting ive shot rabbits at 200 yards during the summer on calm days. wouldn't have any interest in pushing it further. A 1" high zero will be point and shoot out to 160 yards.

As for ammo, I prefer the 17gr bullets, remy were accurate for me but were terrible in one of the lad' 455. I used 20gr HP's for a while and found that crows and mags were flying away a bit too far for my liking after a solid shot. Bullet passed straight through leaving a tiny hole.

I would definitely get a mod for it too. I got one made because I wanted a aluminium one that was short. Should look into the LEI, they match the heavy barrel diameter and are lightweight and short and get the best reviews. pricier than the SAK at 150 quid though but are made specific for the hmr.
There is still the crack you hear behind the gun but in a breeze it is much quieter. The difference is huge. Ive often shot multiple rabbits in the same field and they were still grazing after the first shot went off, of course if you hit the target and its at close range its even quieter.
Without the mod its a like a little cannon going off.

Most likely you'll hear wind effects it a lot.. Its a rimfire so of course wind effects it but its actually the least effected by the wind out of the main 3. I think people are saying it because its used at further range than the other 2 and is noticed more.

Ammo prices can be a bit high but if you buy in bulk and shop around you'd pay 14-15euro a box. maybe less for 500.

I dont really see ammo prices and the noise as cons really because you can't compare it to a .22. noise is a bit louder than the wmr and ammo for the wmr is on the way up similar now to the hmr since its dying a slow death here.

The main con with the 455 for me is the weight of it.. Id rather a Sako quad myself.

richiedel123

I would recommend Paul o hallorans down in drangan. He has good choice and keenly priced. There is another shop in cashel. Casale 2000 or something is the name of it and a fella in colonel too but I never dealt with the late in cashel or clonmel so I won't comment on them. Any chance u could pm me the prices u are getting lad as im in the market for the same rifle and had planned goin looking next week. That would narrow down my search

rowa

I like the look of the browning t-bolt straight pull, never seen one apart from on the web but they look quick to operate and not too fussy about what they feed.

http://youtu.be/5fobb6yb_rI

garv123

richiedel123 wrote: »

I would recommend Paul o hallorans down in drangan. He has good choice and keenly priced. There is another shop in cashel. Casale 2000 or something is the name of it and a fella in colonel too but I never dealt with the late in cashel or clonmel so I won't comment on them. Any chance u could pm me the prices u are getting lad as im in the market for the same rifle and had planned goin looking next week. That would narrow down my search

meant to say POH in drangan is 25 mins south of thurles too. You can pop in for a carton of milk, bread and a box of ammo

One of the lads got his 455 in thurles actually come to think of it, it was well priced too.

Cass

richiedel123 wrote: »

Casale 2000 or something is the name of it........

I know the place. Was in it once, but the lad that runs the place was not there so didn't stay long. might drop down that way tomorrow.

Any chance u could pm me the prices u are getting lad as im in the market for the same rifle and had planned goin looking next week. That would narrow down my search

Which models? Looed at a lot. The CZ? Also which caliber. 17hmr or .22lr?

rowa wrote: »

I like the look of the browning t-bolt straight pull, never seen one apart from on the web but they look quick to operate and not too fussy about what they feed.

Nice rifle. Light weight, good feel, and the bolt cycling is crisp.

garv123 wrote: »

meant to say POH in drangan is 25 mins south of thurles too. You can pop in for a carton of milk, bread and a box of ammo

Thanks for that. Can never have too much milk, and ammo.

One of the lads got his 455 in thurles actually come to think of it, it was well priced too.

Kicker is i told him about it. :rolleyes::o

As foyour first post, some really good info there garv123, thanks.

The weight of the rifle is a little excessive for such a small caliber. It leaves the gun muzzle heavy, and while i was able to comfortably hold the rifle it would not be for too long.


My other option is a CZ 452 in .17, and a thumbhole stock (say from Boyd's) so i have the lightweight rifle design of the 452, yet the desired thumbhole stock like. I did come across a brand new Sako Quad with the .17 barrel, and it;s a lovely gun. However it's twice the price of the CZ, and more than i want to hand out. I have another project cooking, and if i went for anything over the €600 mark it would mean selling the RPA i recently got. Not a "non runner", but something i would like to avoid if i could.

richiedel123

Cass wrote:

Which models? Looked at a lot. The CZ? Also which caliber. 17hmr or .22lr?

I'm looking for a cz in 17 lad and as I said if ya had a few prices it would make my searching easier
Thanks

Cass

Just back in the door from another busy day.

Hit three dealers today. Went to Stakelums (my old regular). Have a few i was liking including the CZ, and Savage SR-TR all in .17hmr. Think both were sold, but will hae word on Monday. Have known Sean for years so know that i'll get a good deal there. No surprises or shocks with prices.

Went onto to Paul O'Halloran's. Bit out of the way, but worth the drive. He has a nice selection of both shotguns,a nd rifles. He had a good selection of CZs then shwed my the 16" barreled one which i forgot CZ even done. So think we have a winner. THe heavy barrel is not an issue with the 16" model. The feel is great, and the balance is perfect. The two he had were sold, but said he would ring his supplier, and see what is available, and when. As i was leaving he rang me back, and had word that he could get the rifle, with 16" barrel, thumbhole stock in .17hmr no problem. So i told him i'd back on Monday afternoon (after i get word back from another dealer about another deal i'm doing), and i reckon i'm gonna go ahead and order from him. He is far cheaper than everyone else, and a nice bloke to deal with.

Thanks to Richiedel123 for the suggestion. Well worth the trip to him.

The last place was Casale200 in Cashel. Selection of shotguns, and rifles were limited to Caeser, and Sabati. He had a lovely Anschutz 1710, with heavy target barrel, Sak Mod, scope, and bipod for €900. Was sorely tempted as was my mate with me. Great rifle for good money.

richiedel123 wrote: »

I'm looking for a cz in 17 lad and as I said if ya had a few prices it would make my searching easier
Thanks

I've sent you a PM with the dealer, and prices they are asking.

garv123

Cass wrote: »

Just back in the door from another busy day.

Hit three dealers today. Went to Stakelums (my old regular). Have a few i was liking including the CZ, and Savage SR-TR all in .17hmr. Think both were sold, but will hae word on Monday. Have known Sean for years so know that i'll get a good deal there. No surprises or shocks with prices.

Went onto to Paul O'Halloran's. Bit out of the way, but worth the drive. He has a nice selection of both shotguns,a nd rifles. He had a good selection of CZs then shwed my the 16" barreled one which i forgot CZ even done. So think we have a winner. THe heavy barrel is not an issue with the 16" model. The feel is great, and the balance is perfect. The two he had were sold, but said he would ring his supplier, and see what is available, and when. As i was leaving he rang me back, and had word that he could get the rifle, with 16" barrel, thumbhole stock in .17hmr no problem. So i told him i'd back on Monday afternoon (after i get word back from another dealer about another deal i'm doing), and i reckon i'm gonna go ahead and order from him. He is far cheaper than everyone else, and a nice bloke to deal with.

Thanks to Richiedel123 for the suggestion. Well worth the trip to him.

The last place was Casale200 in Cashel. Selection of shotguns, and rifles were limited to Caeser, and Sabati. He had a lovely Anschutz 1710, with heavy target barrel, Sak Mod, scope, and bipod for €900. Was sorely tempted as was my mate with me. Great rifle for good money.

I've sent you a PM with the dealer, and prices they are asking.

Did you get the milk and bread? He has a fair selection of ammo and guns in stock. Gent to deal with.


The LIE moderator would best compliment the 16" barrel if it was in budget .
It receives the best reviews, shortest, best noise reduction and lightweight.

If the pic below was a blued one you'd hardly notice it.


Here's a review, and by the pic of them all you can see its by far the smallest.

http://www.shootingtimes.co.uk/guns/369774/Ten_of_the_best_17HMR_moderators.html

Cass

Didn't get the milk, but did get Lucozade, and 20 smokes. Really is a one stop shop.

He has a great selection of cartridges, ammo, and rifles. I was happy enough i wanted the .17, and like the CZ but when he showed me the 16" one i knew it was for me. I asked about the LEI, and he said if you want it, i'll get it. He has loads of mods there for all calibers, and very keenly priced too. Cheaper than most other (if not all) places i've seen them.

Have to admit i was cursing ye when i walked in and seen the small section in the corner of the shop. Thought ye were all having a good laugh at me, but then he took us out to the gun room. The Father fell in love with a Browning O/U. He is still on about it. Have to admit it was a nice gun, and fits him well.

I told him i'll be back onto him on Monday. Honestly i was turning around to drive back to him, when he rangto tell me he can get me a rifle in no time for the same price, but the Father reminded me that i have to wait for word from Sean in Stakelums about another deal i have there. Won;t stop me from getting the CZ just means i'll have exact figures, and will know whether i'm getting the SAK or LEI mod.


Again lads thanks for the help, and advice. It's all good, and accurate. Appreciate it.

homerhop

Seen ya entering a dodgy diner friday evening while passing through the village, was going to throw a bit of abuse out the window at ya but said i would be nice instead. I take it you were in the 2 local dealers to me and cant blame ya for not being overly happy. PM a phone no to ya just to give ya another option and see if they are compatible.

Cass

Appreciate that. 7-8 hours in a car with the other two was punishment enough.

I'm really disappointed in the first one. More like toys 'r 'us. After the hype on here about the selection i was expecting a lot, even something more than what i seen or more to the point did not.


Have to say i enjoyed the last couple of days. First time in years i went out actively looking instead of relying on the same dealer or two or looking on the net. Nothin like a hands on approach, and getting a feel for the rifles.

philog

have you considered a weihrauch hw60 j...very accurate gun ...i have one with a 14 inch barrell ...absolutely love it ...the trigger is unbelievable ...just some food for thought ...

ronn

Any chance you could pm me the prices you got, im going to hold out till the game fair in august,
thanks

zeissman

philog wrote: »

have you considered a weihrauch hw60 j...very accurate gun ...i have one with a 14 inch barrell ...absolutely love it ...the trigger is unbelievable ...just some food for thought ...

I was actually thinking of trading my cz 453 varmint for a weihrauch hw66.
The only thing I dont like about my cz is the trigger. The 453 model has the set trigger and its positioned further forward on the rifle than the other cz models. I just dont feel comfortable shooting it compared to my other rifles.
My mate has a hw60j in 22lr so I shot it alongside my cz a few days ago.
I had three brands of ammo on test and the cz shot tighter groups with all three. Now I dont know what to do.

zeissman

Cass wrote: »

Just back in the door from another busy day.

Hit three dealers today. Went to Stakelums (my old regular). Have a few i was liking including the CZ, and Savage SR-TR all in .17hmr. Think both were sold, but will hae word on Monday. Have known Sean for years so know that i'll get a good deal there. No surprises or shocks with prices.

Went onto to Paul O'Halloran's. Bit out of the way, but worth the drive. He has a nice selection of both shotguns,a nd rifles. He had a good selection of CZs then shwed my the 16" barreled one which i forgot CZ even done. So think we have a winner. THe heavy barrel is not an issue with the 16" model. The feel is great, and the balance is perfect. The two he had were sold, but said he would ring his supplier, and see what is available, and when. As i was leaving he rang me back, and had word that he could get the rifle, with 16" barrel, thumbhole stock in .17hmr no problem. So i told him i'd back on Monday afternoon (after i get word back from another dealer about another deal i'm doing), and i reckon i'm gonna go ahead and order from him. He is far cheaper than everyone else, and a nice bloke to deal with.

Thanks to Richiedel123 for the suggestion. Well worth the trip to him.

The last place was Casale200 in Cashel. Selection of shotguns, and rifles were limited to Caeser, and Sabati. He had a lovely Anschutz 1710, with heavy target barrel, Sak Mod, scope, and bipod for €900. Was sorely tempted as was my mate with me. Great rifle for good money.

I've sent you a PM with the dealer, and prices they are asking.

Are there any problems with getting a 16 inch barreled rifle licenced Cass ?

philog

no problem getting licence for 16 inch barrel ..i already have 2 14 inch barrelled rifles..

zeissman

philog wrote: »

no problem getting licence for 16 inch barrel ..i already have 2 14 inch barrelled rifles..

Did your weihrauch come with the 14in barrel ?
I was looking at their website and it only lists the longer barrels.

Cass

zeissman wrote: »

Are there any problems with getting a 16 inch barreled rifle licenced Cass ?

The law says that if i cut a barrel below 20" then i must use a competent person to build the barrel back up to 20". How that is performed the law does not suggest.

However it also says that possessing a rifle with a barrel shorter than 20" is illegal unless i have lawful authority which my license grants me.


So cutting a barrel is black and white. Buying one that is shorter is the grey area. Until a test case is done which clearly defines what i can or cannot do then i'm gonna get me a CZ.

philog

both my 17 hmr weihrauch and anschutz 1417 carbine .22 came from the factory with 14 inch barrels..

ronn

did you get the .17 cass, What make nand model did you go for,

Cass

I went out looking with the Father for a shotgun for him. He has come out with me the last few times and been reduced to sitting with his .22 while we all have great craic with the shotguns.

Long story short he used the Anschutz as a trade against a Miroku M38 and while i was there i took the plunge and bought a CZ 455 Thumbhole in .17hmr that i've been eyeing for some time.

I'm heading out for now, but will discuss it more late. Need some advice on ammo to go for, etc.

ronn

Can you give me some info on the set up you choose scope, moderator and any other fancy bits you have on it,

how do you find it on foxes,

Im sitting on the fence, people are suggesting i go for a 223 instead of the .17.

Cant make a decision at all, im leaning towards the .17 for rabbits aswell as foxes,

any advice or info would be appreciated

Thanks
Ronan

Cass

ronn wrote: »

Can you give me some info on the set up you choose scope, moderator and any other fancy bits you have on it,

I'e a Hawke Varmint SF 6-24 going on it, a set of warne rings, a CZ picatinny rail, SAK mod, and Harris bipod.

Just need the gun now. Have all the other gear here, and waiting on license.

how do you find it on foxes,

Haven't shot it yet. Only bought it on Monday. Have the sub gone in so waiting on license.

Im sitting on the fence, people are suggesting i go for a 223 instead of the .17.

Cant make a decision at all, im leaning towards the .17 for rabbits aswell as foxes,

Depends on the use.

I wanted one because it has more range than the .22 and as i'm out of the taret end of things i don't need a duel purpose .22lr. Now if you are shooting foxes out to 80 - 100 yards the .17 hmr will do it. It might stretch longer in better conditions, and while the caliber can reach out further for a clean and effective kill on an animal the size of a fox you want to reduce the distance. The .223 will reach out to 300+ yards easily and still have enough energy to cleanly kill a fox.

So as said it's really down to what you want to use it for. Rabbits and short range foxes the .17hmr, For anything at most any distance you can manage the .223.

Plus ammo prices are not that far apart. The .17 runs around €17 and the most expensive .223 is about €28. Although the .17 comes in 50 per box, while the .223 is in 20 per box.

The Aussie

One thing you will notice if you keep the .17hmr spent shells in your pocket is the frightening amount of split cases you end up with, I thought CCI were brutal for it until I got some Federal to try out, about 1 in 6 have a split in them.

ronn

Cass wrote: »

I'e a Hawke Varmint SF 6-24 going on it, a set of warne rings, a CZ picatinny rail, SAK mod, and Harris bipod.

Just need the gun now. Have all the other gear here, and waiting on license.


Haven't shot it yet. Only bought it on Monday. Have the sub gone in so waiting on license.

Depends on the use.

I wanted one because it has more range than the .22 and as i'm out of the taret end of things i don't need a duel purpose .22lr. Now if you are shooting foxes out to 80 - 100 yards the .17 hmr will do it. It might stretch longer in better conditions, and while the caliber can reach out further for a clean and effective kill on an animal the size of a fox you want to reduce the distance. The .223 will reach out to 300+ yards easily and still have enough energy to cleanly kill a fox.

So as said it's really down to what you want to use it for. Rabbits and short range foxes the .17hmr, For anything at most any distance you can manage the .223.

Plus ammo prices are not that far apart. The .17 runs around €17 and the most expensive .223 is about €28. Although the .17 comes in 50 per box, while the .223 is in 20 per box.

Thanks cass
I'm going traveling at the weekend so ill try a few places,

Cass

I've been reading about that a lot lately and i'll be honest, it was on my mind when i was looking. However to not buy the gun based on some neck issues with some brands seemed silly.

Just hope it's not a major issue.

While on the subject what do people recommend for the .17. Looking at Hornady 17gr, and 20gr. Then Federal. Anyone using these?

Which gun do you have, and what do you think of them?

ronn

The Aussie wrote: »

One thing you will notice if you keep the .17hmr spent shells in your pocket is the frightening amount of split cases you end up with, I thought CCI were brutal for it until I got some Federal to try out, about 1 in 6 have a split in them.

Aussie how do you find the .17 on foxes and rabbits,
What sort of set up do you have,

Cass

I bought mine from Sean Harding in Thurles. A gent to deal with, and he always treats me right. Plus the Father was buying the shotgun from him so i got a good deal.

Now if you want a great straight up buy Paul O'Halloran was the cheapest man, and seemed to have a good steady supply. He had 3 (20") in stock, and 2(16") in stock. I was originally buying from him, but another deal elsewhere fell through and left me in the lurch.

If you are traveling i'd check him out. Bit out of the way to get to, but definitely worth a trip.

garv123

Cass wrote: »

I've been reading about that a lot lately and i'll be honest, it was on my mind when i was looking. However to not buy the gun based on some neck issues with some brands seemed silly.

Just hope it's not a major issue.

While on the subject what do people recommend for the .17. Looking at Hornady 17gr, and 20gr. Then Federal. Anyone using these?

Which gun do you have, and what do you think of them?

picture tells a thousand words...

3 shot federal group out of my marlin


3 shot group with hornady 17gr (top shot was sighting in)


I didnt like the hornady 20gr. they did too little damage to a body shot on birds when the bullet passed straight through which left them fly off a bit before dropping.

Cass

Some good info there garv and the pictures really do help.

Quick question. What distance are you shooting at with them?

garv123

Cass wrote: »

Some good info there garv and the pictures really do help.

Quick question. What distance are you shooting at with them?

85 yards is what I had the target set up at in perfect conditions A brow of a hill was costing me 10 yards. A recrown made a huge difference to the accuracy of the rifle.
A blue bottle landed on the page too over on the left.. I said shur why not and assumed I missed till I got down to the target and saw the wing on the page and guts around the hole I retired after that..

One shot on kill

Ah jasus garv good shot. Lucky you went home because anything after that would be a disappointment.

Cass

That's some good shooting, and nice to see when you consider the .22lr would struggle to group like that at 85 or so yards.

Would you consider the Federal slightly better than the Hornady or at least more consistent?

Also what kind of drops are you experiencing? Whats your zero, and drop say closer to and further out from you.


My Annie is a tack driver. Even out to 100 yards i've no problem with what i'm aiming at. The drops are a killer. I use subs almost exclusively, and that is why the .17hmr appeals to me. Less drop .Windage i've no problem with, but would be interested to hear your opinions on the hmr's performance in windy conditions.

garv123

Cass wrote: »

That's some good shooting, and nice to see when you consider the .22lr would struggle to group like that at 85 or so yards.

Would you consider the Federal slightly better than the Hornady or at least more consistent?

Also what kind of drops are you experiencing? Whats your zero, and drop say closer to and further out from you.


My Annie is a tack driver. Even out to 100 yards i've no problem with what i'm aiming at. The drops are a killer. I use subs almost exclusively, and that is why the .17hmr appeals to me. Less drop .Windage i've no problem with, but would be interested to hear your opinions on the hmr's performance in windy conditions.

My order of preferred ammo was feds, remys and then hornady. All 17gr and all killed well but thats the way they grouped so I used the tightest one, I used about 200 hornady aswel and an inch grouping at 100 was still good enough for hunting so I wouldnt consider them inconsistent. I found a lot of hornady split cases at the neck too. I had trouble with hornady 20gr not firing. maybe every 1 in 6 so that also put me off them but one of the lads will only use them in his 455.

I zero an inch high at 100 yards and its fairly point and pull from muzzle to 150 yards, I dont put enough bullets on paper at the minute at long range to judge wind and drop so Its rare I go over 150 yards with it unless its on a calm day.
I aim nose height at a rabbit if its close and if its over 120 ill aim just under the ear and its always successful if I do my bit.

I always hear the stories about the hmr in wind being terrible and stuff but I think the reason people are saying this is because they're using it further out than the .22 and 22mag. Winchester released wind drift charts with the .17hmr, .17wsm and the .22wmr and showed the hmr to be much better than the wmr.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2013/04/17-Winchester-Super-Magnum_003.jpg
and if anything they'd be biased to their own calibres
So Id imagine it would beat a .22 hands down too.

The Aussie

ronn wrote: »

Aussie how do you find the .17 on foxes and rabbits,
What sort of set up do you have,

You will have to excuse the "Tacticool" look (also the iPad camera, it ain't the best in artificial light), it's the last thing I was aiming for but with needed mods for my use that's how it ended up

Sako Quad .17hmr
Zeiss Diavari 1,5-6X42
Harris Swivel Bi-Pod

And a few things from http://kinneysshootingsupply.com/

: A proper Bolt Handle, because having big hands and a small plastic knob in the wet makes for a bit of slippage :pac:

: 0 MOA Picatinny Rail, opens up the use of a set of brilliant rings I had already, I may as well use them than look at them.

: Trigger Shoe, used to be more widely used years ago, the larger area makes the Trigger feel lighter on a heavy trigger and also makes it feel more comfortable, to Quote my Dad on this one "anyone who has a Hair Trigger on a Hunting Rifle is a Idiot" I do see his point to some extent.



As for Rabbits/Crows I'm good out past the 150m mark.

Foxes, only gotten 2 with it both during daylight, longest shot at roughly 70m so no problem on either

ronn

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.17HMR Review by Martin Clarkin
Tuesday, July 12th, 2011
The .17HMR (Hornady Magnum Rimfire) is by far the hottest rimfire round on the market today. Although many of you out there are loyal .22lr shooters where bunny’s , crows and various other vermin species are concerned, I have to say I once was too until I saw the potential of this lightning fast round. We all know the dangers of shooting be it shotgun or rifle , but especially shooting a rifle which has the potential of continuing through the countryside at tremendous speed long after you have taken the shot. One advantage that the .17HMR has over the .22 rimfire calibres is its sensitivity to the elements. This is not ideal in all situations I agree , but where ricochets are concerned this is a great round. If the bullet from the .17HMR so much as hit’s a blade of grass while on the way to a target it will expand and basically turn to dust in mid air. This is due to the fact that the bullet is so light at a mere 17g and the fact that its travelling between 2,550 and 2,650 feet per second. Compared to the .22lr with a standard weight of 38g and travelling at roughly half the speed of the .17HMR, it has the potential to pass straight through the target and continue on half a mile or more in a different direction.
So at the end of the day I feel a lot safer shooting with the .17HMR because I know once it hits something its not going anywhere else, but please do not think this means you can ease up on safety and take riskier shots.


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