I need feminism because...

iwantmydinner

S.L.F wrote: »

Well this is what forums are about, different views.

No one needs feminism

You can read the thread title yes?

It's not a debate thread.

I need feminism. If you'd bothered your hole to read through the thread you might understand why (although that'd require an open mind, so...) I and others do.

If you disagree, start your own thread. This one is important to us so leave it the f#ck alone.

Lucyfur

MOD

S.L.F

While you are entitled to your opinion, this clearly isn't the thread for you, so don't post in it again.

I know the post in question was reported, but just sometimes, us mods need to, you know, work. Or venture into the real world. Or spend time with families. Please don't backseat mod.

iwantmydinner

I appreciate that Lucy. I guess I just got mad

On topic: I need it so that someday, people might stop presuming to tell grown women what they do and do not need in their belief systems.

constance tench

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Women who think they don't need feminism are utterly misguided as to what feminism is and that is tragic. It's not about bra burning or hating men or wanting to be superior to men. That image, I believe, is one that men (#notallmen) have perpetuated in order to ignore uncomfortable truths, and sadly young women (and older women) have accepted it without much reasoned thought.

iwantmydinner wrote: »

On topic: I need it so that someday, people might stop presuming to tell grown women what they do and do not need in their belief systems.

This is why we all need feminism.

LenaClaire

Because **** like this happens way, way too often and is taken no where seriously enough...

http://wehuntedthemammoth.com/2014/10/11/yet-another-woman-in-gaming-has-been-driven-from-her-home-by-death-threats/

iwantmydinner

...because will this attitude ever change otherwise?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/ruined-lives-oscar-pistorius-and-ched-evans-why-do-men-matter-more-women

eviltwin

iwantmydinner wrote: »

...because will this attitude ever change otherwise?

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/10/ruined-lives-oscar-pistorius-and-ched-evans-why-do-men-matter-more-women

In fairness I have seen this attitude when a woman is the perpetrator as well, you only need to look at the cases of female teachers having sex with underage pupils who have walked free and the same "her life is ruined" rubbish. Victims in general never seem to matter, they don't have a voice.

iwantmydinner

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness I have seen this attitude when a woman is the perpetrator as well, you only need to look at the cases of female teachers having sex with underage pupils who have walked free and the same "her life is ruined" rubbish. Victims in general never seem to matter, they don't have a voice.

Great point. I guess the prominent cases recently involving male perpetrators made it seem rather more one-sided than it is in reality.

Lemming

eviltwin wrote: »

In fairness I have seen this attitude when a woman is the perpetrator as well, you only need to look at the cases of female teachers having sex with underage pupils who have walked free and the same "her life is ruined" rubbish. Victims in general never seem to matter, they don't have a voice.

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Great point. I guess the prominent cases recently involving male perpetrators made it seem rather more one-sided than it is in reality.

There have been several cases reported from the here in the UK from casual observation of the Metro newspaper over the last six to twelve months, all of female teachers grooming male students. The portrayal of the women in question has been - to my recollection - that of victims with sad tales of how they fell so low, slaves to their emotional desires, etc. etc. rhubarb and custard ad nauseum, etc. as opposed to the equivalent outrage over male paedophile activity.

It's night and day from everything ranging from court appointed sentencing (or general lack therein) to media attitudes. There seems to be a prevailing view of "oh well she'll never teach again, ergo that must be punishment enough" which is absurd. In fact, if memory serves correctly, one of the above mentioned offenders was a repeat offender (who was still allowed to teach despite her conviction) at that and still painted as some sort of tragic fallen woman/victim rather than what she is: a sexual predator of children.

Shakespeare's Sister

If I had a son who was the victim of a predatory female teacher I don't think I could be responsible for myself.
The lack of recognition of the awfulness of this, adds another horrible dimension.

mackg

In regards Ched Evans, a convicted rapist, once he committed the crime the process is beyond his control. I remember the thread in AH at the time so it can't be that long ago and the fact that this has all come up so soon means he can't have served much time, an outcome familiar to anyone aware of cases of sexual assault or rape in this country. The failure in him not receiving an appropriate sentence isn't with him, it's with the law or the application of the law. I don't believe it's up to Ched Evans or a potential employer to redress this failure.

Any Twitter/media narrative in relation to a perpetrator being the victim is nonsense and is rightly, I feel, identified and criticised in the article.

But I don't think it is necessarily wrong for someone who has served their sentence to have a life. The fact that he has a particular set of skills that afford him a life of luxury isn't really relevant. But that's not to say that a certain element may, wrongly, see his return to football as some form of vindication for his actions. But it's that element and it's misguided view where feminism has work to do, as opposed to preventing Ched Evans getting on with life.

I've not mentioned the sentencing itself as a feminist issue as I feel from my own view of things, mostly based on what I'm familiar with in Ireland, that sentencing in sexual assault and rape cases is part of a broader issue i.e. the lad with 200 convictions wandering the streets causing havoc etc.

Finally, in relation to the statement in the article that he should beg for forgiveness instead of protesting his innocence, I'm not sure how I feel about a sentiment that someone, even convicted, should be forced to confess through apology (even indirectly by denying employment without the apology). Saying that, it's to be weighed against the need that a successfully rehabilitated person (which would be the only reason for early release if that's what went on here) would show genuine remorse for their actions. But that's not a conundrum I see myself resolving this evening.

Tigger99

Huge plus one Bojangles

Lucyfur

MOD

Do not discuss other forums or their moderation. Ever.

If you've a problem with other forums, other threads, other moderators, PM THEM, report the posts at fault! Don't bring it into The Ladies' Lounge.

Ta.

DoYouEvenLift

Banned for Trolling

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

If I had a son who was the victim of a predatory female teacher I don't think I could be responsible for myself.
The lack of recognition of the awfulness of this, adds another horrible dimension.

Yeah, I always found it kind of sad how most people will just disregard it and call the boy lucky. At the end of the day those teachers are still predators that broke the law.

iwantmydinner

It's a classic "first world problem" but I feel quite sad for this woman:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/tell-me-about-it-i-m-being-snubbed-at-the-school-gates-by-other-mothers-1.1953897

She's so right - if it was her husband in the demanding job making every effort to get to school plays and things, he'd be applauded. Why are some women so hard on other women?

constance tench

iwantmydinner wrote: »

It's a classic "first world problem" but I feel quite sad for this woman:

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/tell-me-about-it-i-m-being-snubbed-at-the-school-gates-by-other-mothers-1.1953897

She's so right - if it was her husband in the demanding job making every effort to get to school plays and things, he'd be applauded. Why are some women so hard on other women?

She sends texts to other mothers asking why they ignore her?...sounds like that psychotherapist needs psychotherapy.

...She did it again after that, so I texted her and asked her why. She said that I’d ignored her first but that’s just not true.

More recently it happened again. I texted her and asked her why she had snubbed me. This time she didn’t reply. I can only surmise that it’s something to do with my absence at the school and perhaps a bitchfest that has gone into overdrive.

eviltwin

I'm sure some people will see this as a good thing but it makes me feel sick

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/apple-facebook-to-pay-for-female-employees-to-freeze-eggs-1.1964295

jaja321

eviltwin wrote: »

I'm sure some people will see this as a good thing but it makes me feel sick

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/apple-facebook-to-pay-for-female-employees-to-freeze-eggs-1.1964295

Yeah, surely investing in family friendly work policies and childcare might be a better idea.

meeeeh

Yes, she sounds a bit of a drama queen with all the texting. That being said the hen mother brigade at school gates are a bit annoying. if nothing else you usually have to battle through them to get to the entrance. I am not so sure that they are any friendlier towards men. I just wonder why would you go through the hassle of everything because of people you see once or twice per year at some school event.

edit: this is a reply to the link about school gates war

iwantmydinner

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes, she sounds a bit of a drama queen with all the texting. That being said the hen mother brigade at school gates are a bit annoying. if nothing else you usually have to battle through them to get to the entrance. I am not so sure that they are any friendlier towards men. I just wonder why would you go through the hassle of everything because of people you see once or twice per year at some school event.

Yeah a wee bit dramatic alright. But then, when you feel isolated in the way she describes, IME it's easy to get all wound up about simple things.

Her point about being treated differently to a man in her position stands though, I think.

meeeeh

iwantmydinner wrote: »

Yeah a wee bit dramatic alright. But then, when you feel isolated in the way she describes, IME it's easy to get all wound up about simple things.

Her point about being treated differently to a man in her position stands though, I think.

I don't know, my partner and I are not overly involved with local community (he is local) and we are both equally ignored. Considering he calls them the web feet brigade it might be for the best.

Edit: I am not dismissing her experience but I think there are so many different politics around the school gates, that it is very hard to generalize. What I find it interesting is how much at pain she is to point out that she doesn't miss any school events and takes holidays when they are on holidays. Men don't feel that kind of guilt in general. My partner might miss something from kids life but his reply would be that things had to be done. And I think there is a pressure that society puts on working mothers. Besides being good at work they have to be great mothers too. The thing is kids need only one parent to be there for them when needed and it can just as easily be their father.

Das Kitty

Well as someone who joined the parents association this past month and left the first meeting feeling like I wasn't wanted there due to my lack of daytime availability (in spite of plenty going on in the evenings), I don't think the letter writer is too far off the mark.

The look on the chair person's face when I declined one thing due to my working in the daytime.

I was ignored by the meeting chairperson, not invited to introduce myself, and yesterday they rearranged a meeting planned for today, giving an hour's notice because "that suited most members". I wasn't even asked.

Anyway, perhaps it's not all to do with my family's working arrangements. But there is definitely an element. My husband has been told by some of the same people that he's great for doing the school drop of and pick up. Somehow I don't think very many mothers are praised for doing the same thing!

ancapailldorcha

jaja321 wrote: »

Yeah, surely investing in family friendly work policies and childcare might be a better idea.

These'd constitute workers' rights and we can't be having too many of them unfortunately. They'll probably hope these women just forget about them.

iwantmydinner

Das Kitty wrote: »

Well as someone who joined the parents association this past month and left the first meeting feeling like I wasn't wanted there due to my lack of daytime availability (in spite of plenty going on in the evenings), I don't think the letter writer is too far off the mark.

The look on the chair person's face when I declined one thing due to my working in the daytime.

I was ignored by the meeting chairperson, not invited to introduce myself, and yesterday they rearranged a meeting planned for today, giving an hour's notice because "that suited most members". I wasn't even asked.

Anyway, perhaps it's not all to do with my family's working arrangements. But there is definitely an element. My husband has been told by some of the same people that he's great for doing the school drop of and pick up. Somehow I don't think very many mothers are praised for doing the same thing!

That's pretty grim, that attitude towards women who work outside the home. Bloody hell.

Morag

Because gamergate

allym

Morag wrote: »

Because gamergate

The more I read about this whole thing, the more of a feminist I become.

While I understand that being impartial is important in journalism, we all know that's not what this is about. It's just a convenient excuse for these sad, vile people.

Links234

Morag wrote: »

Because gamergate

https://twitter.com/TheSquink/status/522215273915371520

fits

I'm lost, what's this about?

Links234

fits wrote: »

I'm lost, what's this about?

Integrity in journalism, apparently.

Links234

Ok, serious answer.

1. Game developer Zoe Quinn makes a game
2. Ex-boyfriend claims she slept with a journalist from Kotaku for positive review of said game
2. Some people explode with rage over this, call it "GamerGate" and pretend it's actually something worth getting annoyed about