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God damages Lourdes shrine causing hundreds of thousands of euro's of damage

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    #92
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    krudler wrote: »
    So...Satan makes people do bad things to get closer to God? why does he get such a bad rap then? Seems like he's actually the hard work.

    You can never say that satan forced you to commit a sin because your faith was weak and so satan lead you to temptations and you fell don to it.


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    #93
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Satan's punishment from God is to rule in hell, torturing people. Therefore satan does not enjoy punishing people, while God clearly does. Therefore logically Satan is good and God is evil.

    Humanity has been royally duped into supporting an evil God who asks for impossible dedication on the promise of being saved. He's an abusive parent who promises the child that he won't beat him so long as he always apologises for being beaten.


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    #94
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    kylith wrote: »
    Satan is absolutely in God's employ. What other reason could he have for punishing sinners? If he was actually evil he'd be rewarding people for sinning rather than punishing them.

    This whole God Vs Satan thing is just PR. There will be no final Seraphim/Demon battle. Satan is doing exactly what God wants him to. When Satan tempt people to do evil, that is what God wants. God wants people to sin so that he can get Satan to punish them.

    Totally wrong because Satan ran out of favor with God and so became Gods enemy and so any supporters of Satan or who does his bidding will join him in hell. You are just supporting sin and satan never likes humans because they are Gods creations and so when you get to hell he going to torment you.


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    #95
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    seamus wrote: »
    Satan's punishment from God is to rule in hell, torturing people. Therefore satan does not enjoy punishing people, while God clearly does. Therefore logically Satan is good and God is evil.

    Humanity has been royally duped into supporting an evil God who asks for impossible dedication on the promise of being saved. He's an abusive parent who promises the child that he won't beat him so long as he always apologises for being beaten.

    Dont think satan is living a lavish life in hell because he too is flung into the pit of burning sulfur.


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    #96
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Totally wrong because Satan ran out of favor with God and so became Gods enemy and so any supporters of Satan or who does his bidding will join him in hell.
    So it is revenge. Why do you support a God who is so petty that he engages in revenge against beings that are less than bacteria, from his perspective.

    Do you spend your time rounding up paramecium and then torturing them?
    Dont think satan is living a lavish life in hell because he too if flung into the pit of burning sulfur.
    That's exactly my point. If Satan is being punished by being in hell, then torturing humanity is the absolute most horrible punishment that can be inflicted on Lucifer. Therefore Lucifer is the ultimate humanitarian who wants only the best for humanity, but has been condemned to torturing them for all eternity.

    It's like sentencing an animal lover to torture dogs for all eternity - who is the evil one, the animal lover or the person who condemned him?


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    #97
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    God never makes mistakes because hell is a form of eternal punishment because Mary said in the Fatima apparitions that Wars are punishment from God for the sins of mankind. If you have not repented from your sins even then the God like a father is going to disown you and remove you from his house. DONT SIN if you want to avoid punishment.

    God never never damns anyone to hell but humans themselves because of their actions. satan makes people to commit sin and so return to God through reconciliation.

    Why did god wait until 1917 to explain about wars?

    Why did he wait until 2000 years' ago to send a copy of himself down to save a tribe in Israel? (Only to deliver them to the Nazis later on?)

    Why did he need to send an angel to warn Joseph that Jesus' life was in danger as a baby even though he was fated to die on a cross at age 33?

    If the angel could have warned Joseph, why couldn't he have warned the parents of all the other baby boys?


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    #98
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    You can never say that satan forced you to commit a sin because your faith was weak and so satan lead you to temptations and you fell don to it.

    So hang, if Satan didn't force me to sin then any actions I take are mine alone, with the free will god infused me with. If any temptation is laid before me and I succumb to it then it's because god didn't make me strong enough to withstand it, so no matter what if you're going to hell it's because god wants you to and nothing you can do will change that.


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    #99
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Why did god wait until 1917 to explain about wars?

    Why did he wait until 2000 years' ago to send a copy of himself down to save a tribe in Israel? (Only to deliver them to the Nazis later on?)

    Why did he need to send an angel to warn Joseph that Jesus' life was in danger as a baby even though he was fated to die on a cross at age 33?

    If the angel could have warned Joseph, why couldn't he have warned the parents of all the other baby boys?

    Remember through the killings of the babies Christ set his mark on humanity and sufferings only happen when allowed by God because they are a test by God to see if you curse him or still praise him.

    Read this and you will know http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11.rhtml


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    #100
    bazza1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,270 ✭✭✭bazza1


    Apparently, I was born with original sin. I had no free will as I was a foetus. I was cleared of something I didnt do by baptism. If I had died before baptism I was to spend eternity in Limbo, without the company of my family or God, again for something I didnt do. This was revoked not so long ago with the loss of countless plenary indulgences! Like cancelling "green shield stamps"! If God knows everything, its a waste of time giving me free will because he knows whats going to happen anyway. We are encouraged to do charitable acts to reduce suffering that God inflicts on other poor unfortunates! We are to help out the people in sub Saharan , North Africa, Africa and the middle east, who are victims of poverty and starvation, but it was ok to devastate them during the Crusades. We are to model our life on a poor jewish Aramaic speaking carpenter, because it says so in a book! We are to erect cathedrals and shrines, often very beautiful and often in the poorest countries, rather than use the funding to help our brethren!
    I cant believe that there could be any atheists around at all! :eek:


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    #101
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Dont think satan is living a lavish life in hell because he too is flung into the pit of burning sulfur.
    So if he's being punished too, why the Satan hate? Why not pity him with the rest of us sinners?

    From:http://www.daltonator.net/durandal/oldsite/religion/satan.shtml

    •Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.
    •There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.
    •There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.
    •Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.
    seamus wrote: »
    That's exactly my point. If Satan is being punished by being in hell, then torturing humanity is the absolute most horrible punishment that can be inflicted on Lucifer. Therefore Lucifer is the ultimate humanitarian who wants only the best for humanity, but has been condemned to torturing them for all eternity.

    It's like sentencing an animal lover to torture dogs for all eternity - who is the evil one, the animal lover or the person who condemned him?
    ^This.
    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Remember through the killings of the babies Christ set his mark on humanity and sufferings only happen when allowed by God because they are a test by God to see if you curse him or still praise him.

    Read this and you will know http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11.rhtml

    So God murdered hundreds of babies as a test? And we're still supposed to bow down about how wonderful and merciful he is? You'll have to excuse me if I spit on infanticides rather than worship them.


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    #102
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Remember through the killings of the babies Christ set his mark on humanity and sufferings only happen when allowed by God because they are a test by God to see if you curse him or still praise him.

    Read this and you will know http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11.rhtml

    Wow, God's one narcissistic c*nt, isn't he? Mixed in with so much insecurity he has to see just how far he can push someone before they stop liking him.

    You'll excuse me for not worshipping the psychotic lunatic.


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    #103
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    God never makes mistakes ...

    The Flood, Sodom and Gomorrah - pretty sure He admitted to having to clean up his mistakes.

    To be fair, He was new to the whole God thing at the time. I think we should cut him some slack.

    Atheists don't know the half of how hard it is to be just shy of omnipotent.


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    #104
    Pat Mustard
    Registered Users Posts: 9,554 ✭✭✭Pat Mustard


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Why did god wait until 1917 to explain about wars?

    Why did he wait until 2000 years' ago to send a copy of himself down to save a tribe in Israel? (Only to deliver them to the Nazis later on?)

    Why did he need to send an angel to warn Joseph that Jesus' life was in danger as a baby even though he was fated to die on a cross at age 33?

    If the angel could have warned Joseph, why couldn't he have warned the parents of all the other baby boys?

    A lot of absenteeism and property damage.

    This is the downside of being able to turn water into wine.


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    #105
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Remember through the killings of the babies Christ set his mark on humanity and sufferings only happen when allowed by God because they are a test by God to see if you curse him or still praise him.

    Read this and you will know http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/oldtestament/section11.rhtml

    Just a second, the Christian god is supposedly omnipotent (Psalm 139:4, for example) so what would be the point in putting someone to the test. Wouldn't your god already know what the outcome of the test would be? What would be the point in testing someone when you already know the outcome?


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    #106
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    Just a second, the Christian god is supposedly omnipotent (Psalm 139:4, for example) so what would be the point in putting someone to the test. Wouldn't your god already know what the outcome of the test would be? What would be the point in testing someone when you already know the outcome?

    The only point can be to punish you when you fail.


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    #107
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    kylith wrote: »
    The only point can be to punish you when you fail.

    Which said god knew you were going to do all along, so why bother with the test at all and go straight to the punishment.


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    #108
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    krudler wrote: »
    Which said god knew you were going to do all along, so why bother with the test at all and go straight to the punishment.

    I think they made a movie out of that :)


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    #109
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    krudler wrote: »
    Which said god knew you were going to do all along, so why bother with the test at all and go straight to the punishment.

    Well that's it, isn't it? An omnipotent god already knows what's going to happen in the totality of human existence, therefore the only reason to have created humans is to have some playthings to reward or punish and to make them worship you.

    God's only reason for creating humans is entirely selfish. Selfishness is a sin. Therefore if there is a god he is, under his own rules, sinful.


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    #110
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    krudler wrote: »
    Which said god knew you were going to do all along, so why bother with the test at all and go straight to the punishment.

    Reminds me of this guy a little...

    c4a0e452.jpg


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    #111
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,134 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Remember through the killings of the babies Christ set his mark on humanity and sufferings only happen when allowed by God because they are a test by God to see if you curse him or still praise him.

    That's amusing, because Christ himself declared that no one could reach god except through him. But these innocents couldn't have known him, so they must have been discarded on a whim. Funny that, because they were part of that "chosen people" that god sent down his son to save in the first place.

    It's all so very contradictory...


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    #112
    onlinenerd
    Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭onlinenerd


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    That's amusing, because Christ himself declared that no one could reach god except through him. But these innocents couldn't have known him, so they must have been discarded on a whim. Funny that, because they were part of that "chosen people" that god sent down his son to save in the first place.

    It's all so very contradictory...

    Thats why they got to heaven quicker and also remember when martyrs were put to death they first had to suffer greatly before they could attain eternal life in heaven.


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    #113
    krudler
    Registered Users Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    onlinenerd wrote: »
    Thats why they got to heaven quicker and also remember when martyrs were put to death they first had to suffer greatly before they could attain eternal life in heaven.

    So if I murder someone I can't be punished because I'm sending someone to heaven quicker? Awesome *sharpens knives*


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    #114
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    oldrnwisr wrote: »
    Just a second, the Christian god is supposedly omnipotent (Psalm 139:4, for example) so what would be the point in putting someone to the test. Wouldn't your god already know what the outcome of the test would be? What would be the point in testing someone when you already know the outcome?

    But there is an even more fundamental problem, god is supposedly omniescent, therefore he knows everything, past, present and future. But, we are supposed to have free will in all things, meaning that there is no possible way anything will know in advance for definite what choice we will make when (for example) we go into the shop for the paper tomorrow, and see that lovely enticing ice-cream in the box by the fridge; buy, don't buy. Buy, don't buy. The best any being can do is give a probability.

    Therefore if we have free will god cannot be omniescent, and if god has free will then our actions are pre-determined and we are not responsible. Therefore either god is lying about his power, or he is punishing us for the consequences of his own actions, i.e. his is making us scape-goats for his own FUBARs.
    kylith wrote: »
    Well that's it, isn't it? An omnipotent god already knows what's going to happen in the totality of human existence, therefore the only reason to have created humans is to have some playthings to reward or punish and to make them worship you.

    God's only reason for creating humans is entirely selfish. Selfishness is a sin. Therefore if there is a god he is, under his own rules, sinful.

    Actually that's omniescence, knowing everything in advance. A god who knows everything cannot be omnipotent, as everything is decided and he has no choice but to do what will lead to the events in the future he already knows about. Omnipotence requires the future not to be set in stone, as it needs the freedom of choice necessary to be able to do all conceivable actions.


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    #115
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Brian Shanahan wrote: »
    Actually that's omniescence, knowing everything in advance. A god who knows everything cannot be omnipotent, as everything is decided and he has no choice but to do what will lead to the events in the future he already knows about. Omnipotence requires the future not to be set in stone, as it needs the freedom of choice necessary to be able to do all conceivable actions.

    Io dammit, I knew that! Must pay more attention in future.


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    #116
    Brian Shanahan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,232 ✭✭✭Brian Shanahan


    kylith wrote: »
    Io dammit, I knew that! Must pay more attention in future.

    Don't worry, I just like listing all the ways in which the christian god is impossible given the universe we exist in.


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    #117
    TPD
    Registered Users Posts: 7,814 ✭✭✭TPD


    This thread must be a double-poe at this stage, surely?


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