Discussion thread for those who've read all the books?

beardedmaster

I hope Tormund and Hodor don't die... they're probably my favourite minor characters.

GerB40

Personally I don't think there's gonna be an Iron Throne at the end. Thing like monarchy, family and brotherhood will be irrelevant because of the massive war between ice and fire. Former enemies will have to band together (like the nights watch) and in my opinion NO character is safe. All I want to see is some dragons batin the shíte out of some walkers while anyone who wants to live flocks to Danearys.. Yeah that would grand. (Too ideal so it ain't happenin).

Paddy Cow

Don't know who will end up on the Throne but would love to see Arya going AWOL and getting revenge on the Freys and Boltons. I doubt she's going to let the Red Wedding slide.

Paddy Cow

And while we're on the subject of revenge, it would be sweet if Sansa wised up and totally screwed over Little Finger.

December2012

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Don't know who will end up on the Throne but would love to see Arya going AWOL and getting revenge on the Freys and Boltons. I doubt she's going to let the Red Wedding slide.

Isn't Arya rumoured to be one of the killers of Kevan Lannister?

Grudaire

Do the timelines for that make any sense?

December2012

Do you mean me?

I'll have to check but was t she sent away from Braavos with a new face and a new mission in her last POV chapter? And then there's mention if a girl who could be her in the very last chapter of ADWD.

thegreatiam

Deleted User wrote: »

Sorry I should have said that my theory goes along with Jon being Rhaegar's son and that was the secret Ned was keeping as most people believe.

I'm working on a similar assumption. Well a variation.
But I don't think the show was highlighting the relationship between Jon and tyrion that early for that reason.
I don't know if the show runners were privy to the book ending until the first season was a success. Those episodes were probably written almost 5 years ago. So they probably weren't thinking of the ends of the story in such detail.
But I do think the relationship is highlighted in the book for that reason. Tyrion and Jon will be building on that relationship in some way.

But you're right about later characters. They definitely know the ending at this stage and it will affect certain creative decisions. I think you will be able to tell from the way the TV is made which way the books will go. TV people are not as subtle as martin has been. Will be interesting to see how they cast and show the next crop of characters and how show the relationship between other potential iron throne hopefuls.

Witcher

Think I've said this before but if Jon and Stannis die the series can go and fuck.

Mickeroo

Cliste wrote: »

I don't know! :P

To be honest Jon being alive will take some serious explaining.. I'm getting a bit sick of everyone surviving these clear death situations! Of course I'd prefer him to survive...

Dondarrion has been revived after worse, plus GGM always has characters end chapters looking done for only to survive.

I'd be shocked if Jon is actually dead.

Grudaire

Mickeroo wrote: »

Dondarrion has been revived after worse, plus GGM always has characters end chapters looking done for only to survive.

I'd be shocked if Jon is actually dead.

In the series at least these resurrections take part of Dondarrion. Chipping away at him as a human, and his memories..

I'm not sure that Jon would benefit from such a traumatic style of revival, and would definitely bring into question whether anyone else would allow him to be King if he wasn't fully man..

I would be shocked if he's dead too, but I have the feeling that GRRM has been losing the run of things with failing to kill people over the last few books.. I'm not sure that his survival will be written well enough. I was disappointed with Catlyns survival, and I think I'll be disappointed with Jons survival as well..

December2012

Thinking of Jon in that case then let's look at those who were killed but stay on.

Here's a list of undead characters I can think of:

Lady Stoneheart
Cold hands
Beric Dondarrion - now seems to be gone permanently
melisandre
Euron
Robert Strong
Jon I guess
jeor mormont (warged into his raven)
blood raven

Anybody else to add to the list?

Mousewar

Jon almost certainly warged into Ghost before his body died. He'll stay in there for a while before either warging into a human (maybe Stannis - that'd get him the Iron Throne perchance) or into one of Dany's dragons. That'd be my guess. I think it'd be copout if his body at least isn't fully dead.

Mr Freeze

December2012 wrote: »

Here's a list of undead characters I can think of:

Varamyr sixskins?
Warged into his eagle on death and attacks Jon.

Melisandre & Euron are both surprises on that list for me.

Some people do think that Victarion Greyjoy is undead too, after what ever that Red Priest did to him when the POV changed in the chapter where he got his hand cured. Not a theory I subscribe to.

A Neurotic

December2012 wrote: »

Thinking of Jon in that case then let's look at those who were killed but stay on.

Here's a list of undead characters I can think of:

Lady Stoneheart
Cold hands
Beric Dondarrion - now seems to be gone permanently
melisandre
Euron
Robert Strong
Jon I guess
jeor mormont (warged into his raven)
blood raven

Anybody else to add to the list?

Where's this coming from? I don't remember reading anything that suggested these three were ever resurrected?

Mr Freeze

A Neurotic wrote: »

Where's this coming from? I don't remember reading anything that suggested these three were ever resurrected?

I'm with you on this one. Jeor Mormount warging into the crow, I never noticed that while reading, but read/heard it plenty since.

Melisandre & Euron though, I don't think either of them ever died and were resurrected.

December2012

The Mormont one is theory only - based on the affinity between Mormons and his raven, and the behaviour of the raven after Mormons death (it's suggested the raven is being controlled by someone, maybe blood raven if not Jeor?)

Melisandre has no need for food or drink or sleep.

Euron is ageless plus is drinking the nightshade. I'll get the rest later.

Mr Freeze

Regarding Cold Hands too, I think he is insignificant, I think its just a wight of a Nightswatch man being controlled by Bloodraven.

Mickeroo

Cliste wrote: »

In the series at least these resurrections take part of Dondarrion. Chipping away at him as a human, and his memories..

I'm not sure that Jon would benefit from such a traumatic style of revival, and would definitely bring into question whether anyone else would allow him to be King if he wasn't fully man..

I would be shocked if he's dead too, but I have the feeling that GRRM has been losing the run of things with failing to kill people over the last few books.. I'm not sure that his survival will be written well enough. I was disappointed with Catlyns survival, and I think I'll be disappointed with Jons survival as well..

I think they could just spin it that Jon doesn't lose any of himself if he wargs into ghost rather than dies fully. Also Dondarrion was resurrected quite a few times, jon would only have to be resurrected once so would still be relatively whole.

Hasn't heard the theory on Mormont being a warg before, I can see how it could be spun the way the raven was always so close to him, but tbh it could just have been a pet.