Pitched battle in Tallaght

BaZmO*

frank reynolds wrote: »

im not saying it's just ireland to be fair, it's a world issue. the WORLD is becoming a more violent place, or more to the point a place where extreme violence is slowly but surely becoming more accepted.

It's not though, unless you can provide me with links to say otherwise?

Here's an example of what I was talking about. Taken from the Herald.ie (where the original story was taken from), it's the Top 5 Most Read Stories.

1. Hospital terror as gang thugs battle in front of patients
2. Christy Dignam amazes VIP guests
3. Gangster's home shot up in 2am revenge attack
4. Gardai quiz murder suspect
5. Girl (10) savaged in horror dog attack

See a pattern there?

space_man

I am pie wrote: »

....or you know, maybe the travellers should have found another way to express their disquiet over whatever this imagined cultural transgression might have been without resorting to violence.

That is a very weak justification for what you are postulating may or may not have happened.

It is only correct to recognise that interpersonal violence is part of the traveller culture, fighting as a dispute resolution mechanism is heavily ingrained in their culture.

Do we decide that because it is part of their culture we should accept it and tolerate it or do we outline that it is not acceptable in a 21st democracy and expect that they find other ways to resolve conflict.

your entire argument is based on the travellers having initiated the violence.
you have no way of knowing this.
maybe it was the foreigner?

asdfg!

FTA69 wrote: »

http://tvgcork.ie/site/?page_id=9

Involved in advocacy, childcare, health work, drug and alcohol awareness, mediation and organising training schemes.

They also work hard in trying to break down barriers between Travellers and the wider community. Important work when considering the thick ignorant attitudes held by people like yourself.

All very laudable but for most of the 'wider community' contacts with Traveller culture are not always positive. No amount of well meaning work to break down the barriers will change that unless Traveller culture changes for the better.

We're not allowed to criticise this 'culture' on boards or anywhere else anymore. But you'd have to be living under a rock if you haven't witnessed aspects of this culture in action on any give day.

The Backwards Man

crazygeryy wrote: »

there s loads of proof that they contribute something to THEIR Community. but none that they contribute to society. unless you have some do you?

Does winning Olympic medals for Ireland count?

kylith

My money is on one group having trespassed on the other group's illegal activities.

Seriously though, I'd like to see hospitals be able to turf people like that out, regardless of wealth, status, race, or creed. "Oh, you're starting a fight in the A&E? You obviously don't need medical attention so. Now fúck off so I can save someone who deserves it."

frank reynolds

space_man wrote: »

your entire argument is based on the travellers having initiated the violence.
you have no way of knowing this.
maybe it was the foreigner?

Space man, YOU are the only one who keeps telling people that the travellers started it.

are you sure you are able to understand what you are reading correctly?

you are definitely a troll.

ScumLord

Jonny7 wrote: »

They have plenty of drink in Netherlands and Belgium and this is a very rare sight

Amsterdams tourist centre is heavily policed, trouble doesn't kick off in the middle of Amsterdam. Last time I was there I decided to go down to Rotterdam and it has like a completely different country, I went around a corner at one stage to be confronted with two gangs of youths kicking the crap out of each other right in the centre of the city. I'd never seen anything like it anywhere.

In the UK soccer fans get police escorts to matches to ensure things don't kick off between normal tax paying citizens.

What happens in Ireland is mickey mouse stuff compared to what goes on in bigger countries.

jimgoose

Anyone know who won?

space_man

asdfg! wrote: »

All very laudable but for most of the 'wider community' contacts with Traveller culture are not always positive. No amount of well meaning work to break down the barriers will change that unless Traveller culture changes for the better.

We're not allowed to criticise this 'culture' on boards or anywhere else anymore. But you'd have to be living under a rock if you haven't witnessed aspects of this culture in action on any give day.

there are travellers living close to my hometown and i have not witnessed this proclivity for violence you refer to.
the violence is largely confined to the settled community.

Killer Wench

My odd perspective. Be thankful that Ireland is not a gun-heavy culture or there would have been many, many deaths. And not just those engaged in the confrontation, but many innocent residents would have been killed by stray bullets. Then again, in my gun-heavy culture, we really don't have full-scale gang confrontations like this. Most gang-related individuals (assuming these are criminal gangs) will just run up, shoot, and run off.

FTA69

Yawns wrote: »

That links seems to be more about a group of women travellers who set up the group to help other travellers. Not really a big help to society or a community at large really.

By your logic so we can say that disability groups, single-mother groups, women's groups, immigrant groups and mental health groups aren't "a big help to society" because they predominantly cater for a specific section of society (usually one discriminated against or underrepresented.)

"Sure Aware are only useless, they only look after the depressed!"

A community is made of many different people and different groups of people who often have different needs. Groups like the TVG are helping women from a particular background to get into training, providing much-needed childcare as well as doing a raft of other coal-face community work. That in itself is a help to society. Unless of course Travellers aren't part of society?

Your link in particular is about a creche for traveller families. I'd prefer to have a better link if it' available about travellers helping society or a larger part of the community rather than jsut themselves.

http://tvgcork.ie/site/images/1.jpg

Not for Travellers only as you can see by the photo above.

Having lived in Cork and being familiar with the TVG they are also involved in various community group forums and tie in with a load of other groups and projects. They aren't exclusionary.

I am pie

space_man wrote: »

your entire argument is based on the travellers having initiated the violence.
you have no way of knowing this.
maybe it was the foreigner?

No, my response is based on this

"well the foreigner being ignorant of the rich traveller culture might have naiively transgressed in some way, leading to this unfortunate fracas"

Which you posted.

You suggested it might have been the foreigners fault, I suggested that, regardless of who insulted who, violence is not acceptable.

Your gist seems to be that anyone turning up in Ireland better familiarise themselves with traveller culture otherwise it'll be their fault if they get a kicking once they say they wrong thing?

Yawns

FTA69 wrote: »

Having lived in Cork and being familiar with the TVG they are also involved in various community group forums and tie in with a load of other groups and projects. They aren't exclusionary.

Very well, I take your word for it and apologise. From the quick read I gave the website, it struck me as a traveller only group that didn't seem to cater to others.

dr.bollocko

A round and volley of infractions / bans handed out.

I think it best to leave it at that.