Security at nightclubs

Jumboman

Alexandra Squeaking Warhead wrote: »

You're at least five years (or more) older than you were back then, you're likely visiting a different scene, dressing and behaving differently too ~ sounds like you're comparing apples with oranges.

Actually it was in 2008 that I found it easier to get into pubs and clubs.

I'm also going to mostly the same places and I've been wearing the same clothes for the last 10 years when I go out ie jeans and a shirt. I dont act any differently to how I did 5 years ago either.

Maybe your a decent bouncer but alot of them use to stop me getting into a place on a whim and just say "not tonight lads" without even talking to me or my friends.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jumboman wrote: »

Maybe your a decent bouncer but alot of them use to stop me getting into a place on a whim and just say "not tonight lads" without even talking to me or my friends.

I know, its a real pain in the ass.

I've a 21 year old son and an 18 year old daughter and the advice I give them all the time is if you're turned away from a door don't give lip and take your money elsewhere, its not rocket science ~ and as frustrating as it is if your mates got in before you, take them off somewhere else.

Asking to speak with a manager is mostly a waste of time, at best he/she will side with the door staff (who'll say you were aggressive!!) and at worse it'll get your face remembered and you'll never get in.

Same goes for calling a garda to 'prove' you're sober or of age, I've never seen one take sides against the doorstaff in this situation.

However if you're assaulted by all means call the cops (unless you're not 100% covered because you can bet the door is covered by CCTV), or if a bouncer takes your I.D. ~ I worked with east European door staff in two clubs a few years ago why used to take drivers licenses and passports and sell them on ~ NEVER, EVER leave the door if these are taken by a bouncer.

I'm aware that this is an ES forum so I don't want to go on and on.

If you're out and about the Templebar area over the weekend we'll have crossed paths :P

Jumboman

Alexandra Squeaking Warhead wrote: »

I
Asking to speak with a manager is mostly a waste of time, at best he/she will side with the door staff (who'll say you were aggressive!!) and at worse it'll get your face remembered and you'll never get in.

Is there any point in speaking to the manager if your a regular at a place ? and have only being refused because their is new doorstaff.

wandatowell

whellman1030 wrote: »

I know this may be a naive question for someone from Ireland but from someone from other country it isn't.

I was blocked by a security guy, he said I was "intoxicated". Well I dind't drink any drink on that day and I don't take drugs.

So in these situations can I call the gards to make me the alcool test or is there other legal way to prove I'm not drunk?

Lesson learned, never go out in Cork City



Bouncers there are assholes of the highest order

WilcoOut

makikomi - could you outline the reasons as to why you refuse people

intoxicated is an obvious one, but is there certain traits or behavior patterns that you look out for, or is it mostly a gut judgment based on experience or what you feel is most 'likely' to happen with a certain individual later into the night etc

lighterman

Alexandra Squeaking Warhead wrote: »

I'll start by saying I've twenty plus years experience on the doors of bars & clubs... So..



This is completely off the wall wrong, plain and simple. I've heard this said before, it does not happen.. Stand on a door for a night and you'll realize why it can not realistically work.




Either this lad has a head of sense or has worked in the industry, bang on.



You're at least five years (or more) older than you were back then, you're likely visiting a different scene, dressing and behaving differently too ~ sounds like you're comparing apples with oranges.

Bouncers, just as in every job the world over there are good and bad.

Someone mentioned the requirement to display the PSA license, thats no longer the case. Although the bouncer must have it on his/her person and available for inspection by AGS or an inspector from the PSA.

I gave my reply as per my experiences and likewise i'm sure your only giving your experience. I'm on the doors the last 5 and a half years working wicklow,dublin and carlow. I also have been doing concerts the lady 2 yrs so i may not have 20 yrs experience but i have enough to give my opinion.

Can you send me a link regarding the law change on the licences please as i cant see anything on the PSA website.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Jumboman wrote: »

Is there any point in speaking to the manager if your a regular at a place ? and have only being refused because their is new doorstaff.

Yup, in that case certainly. Sorry like I said I'm aware this is an ES forum and trying to give a brief and broad outline of the job and things people experience.

Wilco re. the reasons given.. Its largely down to experience, but the one which sticks in my throat is "regulars only" ~ its a bit of a slap in the face for a lot of people. But sometimes it works, ie if you're working the door or a (I'm using examples) rock bar you know the they of customer who likes rock/metal ~ when a few shams come up you know they're not rockers and they're just taking a chance because either they've been refused from other places or they know they won't get into most places.. Same goes for gay bars, etc.

Addicts are of course never allowed in, same as thieves (you get to know a lot of them), I'm not going to risk the wrath of the PC brigade but a certain type of nomadic people are very risky as are the people who sell flowers

Lighterman, sorry I may have read it wrong recently but I honestly don't have the time to search now.. Either way I carry mine in my pocket.. And I doubt you've worked a regular door tbh, concert security really are at the lower rung of the ladder... And I've absolutely zero faith in the PSA, it was/is just another FF/Green qwango and has made feck all difference to the security industry except to extract license fee's from people.

Oh its an ES forum so, erm ~ respect guys and girls, you don't get enough of it.

Have to fly.

**The job attracts Walter Mittys and power trippers, that I can't deny!

AllthingsCP

lighterman wrote: »

They do have to give a reason. They cant just stop you. Thats why they say you look too drunk. Easiest get out clause there is when you say your not is your told that they spotted you swaggering,tripping,unsteady on your feet etc. they are then covered.

BTW its not the doormen thats ****,its the owner looking at you on the camera abd talking in to their ears or they could be standing very close to them observing them.

They dont care who gets in. Less trouble for them if you do go in. Ya might remember that next time.

Sorry they hold the right to not allow people in without giving reason, The supervisor would more then likely be the highest member of the team not the owners, Door staff would communicate with other clubs and pubs to spot the trouble makers and drug users and sellers and would more then likely stop someone matching a description that another club of pub door staff made kinda 50/50 sometimes they get the right person.

But Ds are not monsters and most are good lads and girls just the rubbish you deal with can start to annoy you for 60 euro a night.

On a rare occasion while i was working as a supervisor one of my staff was allowing females in and not allowing their male mates in this was to allow this member of staff a chance to chat the ladies up on the inside once discoverer the man in question was asked to leave the area and not to return

lighterman

AllthingsCP wrote: »

Sorry they hold the right to not allow people in without giving reason, The supervisor would more then likely be the highest member of the team not the owners, Door staff would communicate with other clubs and pubs to spot the trouble makers and drug users and sellers and would more then likely stop someone matching a description that another club of pub door staff made kinda 50/50 sometimes they get the right person.

But Ds are not monsters and most are good lads and girls just the rubbish you deal with can start to annoy you for 60 euro a night.

On a rare occasion while i was working as a supervisor one of my staff was allowing females in and not allowing their male mates in this was to allow this member of staff a chance to chat the ladies up on the inside once discoverer the man in question was asked to leave the area and not to return

Again that is your experience.I have given my experience not yours.BTW most of my work is done around wicklow/kildare not the cities.I dont work in any location that there is several clubs therefore we can only communicate among ourselves.

AllthingsCP

lighterman wrote: »

Again that is your experience.I have given my experience not yours.BTW most of my work is done around wicklow/kildare not the cities.I dont work in any location that there is several clubs therefore we can only communicate among ourselves.

I don't work in the city's either but most pubs in towns now have DS Busiest place i works haD about 7 pubs and 2 clubs all having DS.

PMurph048

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Slightly related. I find I have trouble getting in absolutely anywhere, stone-cold sober or otherwise. I'm not the most confident person in the world, I have a shaved head. The last night at the grand social they wouldn't let me in. I ask em, hey I have trouble getting in anywhere and they just said it's an older crowd in tonight. But my two friends had just got in 5 minutes previously. They try different excuses each time to fob me off but it's becoming almost certain I will be at least 'stopped and questioned' with a lot of the time just been refused. I wouldn't mind if it didn't happen almost every time. Just curious, am I just giving off 'trouble' vibes that bouncers pick up on?

you must be giving off a 'rough' impression. no offence

Dublinmackem

I'm happy to say I've hardly ever been refused thank god but if I ever am I will make a point of reporting it to the manager and then broadcasting this, particularly with social media now, I have seen one new pubs FB page absolutly sabotaged with ridicule with their recent door staff antics, everyone seen the attitude of the door and buisiness dropped rapid, needless to say this no longer exsists,

AllthingsCP

Dublinmackem wrote: »

I'm happy to say I've hardly ever been refused thank god but if I ever am I will make a point of reporting it to the manager and then broadcasting this, particularly with social media now, I have seen one new pubs FB page absolutly sabotaged with ridicule with their recent door staff antics, everyone seen the attitude of the door and buisiness dropped rapid, needless to say this no longer exsists,

So your acting the fool, Or the DS feel you would be a danger to others in the area and they refuse you, Your response will be ''reporting it to the manager and then broadcasting this'' Why so everyone can see you where just looking for a confrontation?.

You said Hardly ever refused which means you have been at some stage refuse to be allowed into a pub/nightclub? Why.

Did you report that to the Manager or social media?.

Dublinmackem

AllthingsCP wrote: »

So your acting the fool, Or the DS feel you would be a danger to others in the area and they refuse you, Your response will be ''reporting it to the manager and then broadcasting this''
but I'm not acting the fool or a danager to others, your making assumptions completly out of context, let's get real and keep it in the context of the OP who was not even drinking and refused for no valid reason.
Why so everyone can see you where
just looking for a confrontation?.
I wasn't looking for a confrontation; you're assuming again,


You said Hardly ever refused which means you have been at some stage refuse to be allowed into a pub/nightclub? Why.

I was refused from a club in London 2 years ago, door staff informed me it was a members club, I said fine, they suggested a place furthur down, I said thanks, end of.


Did you report that to the Manager or social media?.[/quote,

as above.

If it helps you understand my last post better.. I would suggest to use social media, forums, e-mails including cc's to door staff regulation group/s, vintiners association, local media i.e northside/southside people etc.. To highlight anything unjust from door staff as it a serious abuse for a very long time now and damaging to local buisiness, and to clarify; if you are being a danager to others or being confronta. Then the above does not apply to you.

bill buchanan

Dublinmackem wrote: »

AllthingsCP wrote: »

So your acting the fool, Or the DS feel you would be a danger to others in the area and they refuse you, Your response will be ''reporting it to the manager and then broadcasting this''
but I'm not acting the fool or a danager to others, your making assumptions completly out of context, let's get real and keep it in the context of the OP who was not even drinking and refused for no valid reason.
Why so everyone can see you where
just looking for a confrontation?.
I wasn't looking for a confrontation; you're assuming again,


You said Hardly ever refused which means you have been at some stage refuse to be allowed into a pub/nightclub? Why.

I was refused from a club in London 2 years ago, door staff informed me it was a members club, I said fine, they suggested a place furthur down, I said thanks, end of.


Did you report that to the Manager or social media?.[/quote,

as above.

If it helps you understand my last post better.. I would suggest to use social media, forums, e-mails including cc's to door staff regulation group/s, vintiners association, local media i.e northside/southside people etc.. To highlight anything unjust from door staff as it a serious abuse for a very long time now and damaging to local buisiness, and to clarify; if you are being a danager to others or being confronta. Then the above does not apply to you.

Spot on Dublin Mackem. Bars in Dublin really do have bzarre and inconsistent door policies. And doorstaff very rarely give you a decent explanation. But it's not the celtic tiger now. I'm an old settled professional now. But I still got refused from a bar in Dublin city a while ago. "sorry, private party tonight". just laughed and told him he would have been more convincing if he'd asked for a ticket or an invite first We actually both just laughed. And my mates had all gone in a few mins earlier. So I phoned them, they came out and we went somewhere else. About a fortnight later was walking past at dinner time with colleagues. It was obvious we were looking to get food as we were looking at menus in windows. As we walked past, staff from that pub came out and he offered us menus to look at. I told him very politely we wouldn't ever go there again because of the bouncer. I'm sure he didn't give a hoot. But if enough people identify problems in any good business, the problem gets sorted.

wotswattage

Dublinmackem wrote: »

I'm happy to say I've hardly ever been refused thank god but if I ever am I will make a point of reporting it to the manager and then broadcasting this, particularly with social media now, I have seen one new pubs FB page absolutly sabotaged with ridicule with their recent door staff antics, everyone seen the attitude of the door and buisiness dropped rapid, needless to say this no longer exsists,

Again why report them 'just because' you were refused?? I'm sure in most cases theres a perfectly good reason to refuse someone.

Perhaps the bars should go putting photos of the people they refuse up on social media saying why they refused them instead of reacting to a one sided version of events which has snowballed in a matter of hour doing serious damage to a business.

Just look at that club in Dublin who got massive amounts of bad pr for refusing to carry a guy down a stairs in his wheelchair. He put up a sob story saying he was refused 'just because' he was in a wheelchair and humiliated for 45 mins in front of a queue of people. Why did he wait there for 45 mins after being given a perfectly logical explanation that the staff weren't going to carry him down but his friends could if they wanted?? He started a facebook campaign blackening the club, got the support of tens of thousands of people based on a half truth. When the truth finally came out the damage was done...

bill buchanan

wotswattage wrote: »

Again why report them 'just because' you were refused?? I'm sure in most cases theres a perfectly good reason to refuse someone.

Perhaps the bars should go putting photos of the people they refuse up on social media saying why they refused them instead of reacting to a one sided version of events which has snowballed in a matter of hour doing serious damage to a business.

Just look at that club in Dublin who got massive amounts of bad pr for refusing to carry a guy down a stairs in his wheelchair. He put up a sob story saying he was refused 'just because' he was in a wheelchair and humiliated for 45 mins in front of a queue of people. Why did he wait there for 45 mins after being given a perfectly logical explanation that the staff weren't going to carry him down but his friends could if they wanted?? He started a facebook campaign blackening the club, got the support of tens of thousands of people based on a half truth. When the truth finally came out the damage was done...

Do you really believe people should just accept it unquestionably? Because the security must have had a good reason? Come on. I'm a 36 year old doctor, never been in a fight or any kind of trouble. I hadn't had a drink at that point and was just meeting a few friends for a quiet drink. If a security guard refused to let me into a shop I'd mention it to the manager if, 2 weeks later, he asked me to come in and shop. It's entirely reasonable to tell staff that you're unhappy with a policy.

Dublinmackem

wotswattage wrote: »

Again why report them 'just because' you were refused?? I'm sure in most cases theres a perfectly good reason to refuse someone.

Perhaps the bars should go putting photos of the people they refuse up on social media saying why they refused them instead of reacting to a one sid
version of events which has snowballed in a matter of hour doing serious damage to a business.

Just look at that club in Dublin who got massive amounts of bad pr for refusing to carry a guy down a stairs in his wheelchair. He put up a sob story saying he was refused 'just because' he was in a wheelchair and humiliated for 45 mins
in front of a queue of people. Why did he wait there for 45 mins after being given a perfectly logical explanation that the staff weren't going to carry him down but his friends could if they wanted?? He started a facebook campaign blackening the club, got the support of tens of thousands of people based on a half

truth. When the truth finally came out the damage was done...

No one is condoning that sort of behaviour, I certainly am not, the simple fact is that regardless of how easy or hard the job is and whether it is a pub or club; I will treat it as any other service and if I felt i was dealt with wrongly then I would escalate it. Imagine sitting down in a restaurant and the waiter saying no sorry not tonight, It would be outrageous, or walking into ikea for the sercurity to say where are ya coming from? Just yous 2 is it? nope Sorry not
today fella, a public house is no different in my eyes, and just to note that's in a restaurant or going to ikea unintoxicated or anything of an unorthodox manner, it's actually the buisiness damaging themselves, it's seriously pre-historic behaviour, worst fools to accept being belittled by anyone nowadays without taking some action

wotswattage

bill buchanan wrote: »

Do you really believe people should just accept it unquestionably? Because the security must have had a good reason? Come on. I'm a 36 year old doctor, never been in a fight or any kind of trouble. I hadn't had a drink at that point and was just meeting a few friends for a quiet drink. If a security guard refused to let me into a shop I'd mention it to the manager if, 2 weeks later, he asked me to come in and shop. It's entirely reasonable to tell staff that you're unhappy with a policy.

But 2 weeks later a smart alec comment about the bouncer isn't dealing with it. The staff will simply assume he had a good reason to stop you two weeks ago.

Being a doctor has nothing to do with it, maybe you had caused trouble there before, maybe he mistook you for someone else, maybe a hundred other reasons, maybe he was actually wrong!! Going on facebook/twitter is not the way to deal with the situation.

Ask for a manager, explain rationally to the manager that you think you were refused entry unfairly, and go on somewhere else. If the manager sees that the doorman is simply stopping people for the sake of stopping people he wont have that doorman on the door for too much longer...

bill buchanan

wotswattage wrote: »

But 2 weeks later a smart alec comment about the bouncer isn't dealing with it. The staff will simply assume he had a good reason to stop you two weeks ago.

Being a doctor has nothing to do with it, maybe you had caused trouble there before, maybe he mistook you for someone else, maybe a hundred other reasons, maybe he was actually wrong!! Going on facebook/twitter is not the way to deal with the situation.

Ask for a manager, explain rationally to the manager that you think you were refused entry unfairly, and go on somewhere else. If the manager sees that the doorman is simply stopping people for the sake of stopping people he wont have that doorman on the door for too much longer...

Of course being a doctor has nothing to do with it, but it shows you that I'm unlikely to be a hardened criminal or have a significant criminal background. I don't know why you think I may have caused trouble there before or that made a "smart alec" comment. I just treated it like any other business. You're trying to defend the indefensble.

wotswattage

Saying to a random member of staff holding a menu that you're not coming back because of the bouncer is the smart alec comment. He/she will have no idea what you are on about, which bouncer it was or when it happened. They wont pass it on up the line.

I'm not defending the doorman, I'm saying there are right and wrong ways to deal with the situation after it happens. If I were stopped for what I perceived as no reason, I'd first of all not bother going there again, but I'd make sure management heard about it too (on the night, or the next day) to hopefully have the situation dealt with. The manager will make up his/her own mind and if they think the doorman is turning away decent custom they will be gotten rid of.

edit: Note I used the word maybe 4 times. You could have picked the 'maybe he was wrong' as its just as possible as the other 3

Dublinmackem

bill buchanan wrote: »

Do you really believe people should just accept it unquestionably? Because the security must have had a good reason? Come on. I'm a 36 year old doctor, never been in a fight or any kind of trouble. I hadn't had a drink at that point and was just meeting a few friends for a quiet drink. If a security guard refused to let me into a shop I'd mention it to the manager if, 2
weeks later, he asked me to come in and shop. It's entirely reasonable to tell staff that you're unhappy with a policy.

quite right bill, fair play, Im pretty sure I know the place you're talking about too, it's their regular "get out clause line" years ago they would not have to try get people into the restaurant part, it was always busy but the thing is people don't forget and my friends were once refused there for no reason so none of them ever go in even 10 years or so later and I won't either, even with their 7 nights a week entertainment if it's the same place bold guess from me, their nightclub has also flopped. I think they say if you have a bad expierience you tell 15 people and if you have a good one then you tell an average 4-5 only, but if there was ever an attempt to undermine me or worse then I'll tell everyone

Jumboman

Dublinmackem wrote: »

quite right bill, fair play, Im pretty sure I know the place you're talking about too, it's their regular "get out clause line" years ago they would not have to try get people into the restaurant part, it was always busy but the thing is people don't forget and my friends were once refused there for no reason so none of them ever go in even 10 years or so later and I won't either, even with their 7 nights a week entertainment if it's the same place bold guess from me, their nightclub has also flopped. I think they say if you have a bad expierience you tell 15 people and if you have a good one then you tell an average 4-5 only, but if there was ever an attempt to undermine me or worse then I'll tell everyone

Just out of interest are we talking about an establishment in temple bar ?

mick1975

Just tell them your a minority and an orphan, the two pronged approached works for me, oh and cross your eyeballs and dribble and call everyone steve

Dublinmackem

Jumboman wrote: »

Just out of interest are we talking about an establishment in temple bar ?

Close enough, the one I guessed bill was on about is a hotel on the northside quays with paddywhackery that would put darby o'gill to shame, one or two in temple bar spring to mind also particularly the one smack bang in the middle

truebluesac

bill buchanan wrote: »

Of course being a doctor has nothing to do with it, but it shows you that I'm unlikely to be a hardened criminal or have a significant criminal background. I don't know why you think I may have caused trouble there before or that made a "smart alec" comment. I just treated it like any other business. You're trying to defend the indefensble.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

😜😜

Jumboman

truebluesac wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

����

lol their must be many more Harold Shipmans out there that havnt been caught yet. The doorman was probably right not to let him in he could of been a serial killer.

bill buchanan

truebluesac wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

😜😜

Obviously I said "unlikely", rather than "impossible".

I wouldn't name the place, but it's on the edge of temple bar. I think it's entrely appropriate to mention why, when a staff member asks if you'd like a menu. In fact it's probably less rude than just saying "no". Simple case of "sorry, I tried to come in here a couple of weeks ago and that guy wouldn't let me in, so I won't be coming back". Didn't have a go at the staff member. I'm not going to pretend I lost any sleep over whether they believed he had a good reason. I was just being honest. Not gonna waste my time to track down a manager the next day, as there's stacks of pubs in Dublin willing to take my cash!

truebluesac

bill buchanan wrote: »

Obviously I said "unlikely", rather than "impossible".

!

Without getting into a debate on which employment is more or less likely to have a criminal conviction . Years ago when i was growing up (im 33) the priest , nuns and christian brothers could do no wrong and infact were a coner stone to the beliefs of socity , a nation And where hughly influencial over our government and its policies . Fast forward to present day and what doest hindsight teach us . Between sex scandles , magdeline laundrys , kiddy fiddling and the violance of some instituations . It has taught us to be cautious of everybody .

Nobody is above reproach .

truebluesac

By the way i am in no way suggesting that you are any of the above examples . I am mearly pointing out the murder , deception and violance knows no acedemic ,political or social boundarys