British and Irish Lions vs Queensland Reds Sat 8 June 10:30am; Sky Sports 1

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

Honest question now. Did you see the Force game and if so, what did you think of Halfpenny (without referring to his goal kicking)?

Honest answer, yes of course I saw the Force game. I would feel like a fraud if I came on here firing off posts without actually having watched the game!

HP played exactly as I thought he would. With one exception, positionally impeccable, took all the right options, didn't get caught behind the gain-line, don't recall any spilled pill, knock-ons, or forward passes, counter-attacked with reasonable interest, kicking in general play fine. Look, he's not as sharp as Hogg on the counterattack, but he's just so reliable, an error-free FB. With all the other attacking options the Lions have I don't think his lack of sidestepping wizardry is that big an issue.

In any case, all arguments about him starting are academic, because he is such a good goalkicker. Reminds me of Morne Steyn at his peak.

totallegend

Swiwi wrote: »

HP played exactly as I thought defensive With one exception, positionally impeccable, took all the right options, didn't get caught behind the gain-line, don't recall any spilled pill, knock-ons, or forward passes, counter-attacked with reasonable interest, kicking in general play fine. Look, he's not as sharp as Hogg on the counterattack, but he's just so reliable, an error-free FB. With all the other attacking options the Lions have I don't think his lack of sidestepping wizardry is that big an issue.

In any case, all arguments about him starting are academic, because he is such a good goalkicker. Reminds me of Morne Steyn at his peak.

See that's the difference there. I don't think a "solid" defensive display at FB against a team who offered nothing in attack should be enough to nail down a test spot.

You say we don't need him to attack, I say we don't need him to kick goals. He is no better than Sexton. Unless we're basing things on one game?

I agree he'll almost certainly be in the test team but he hasn't earned it yet imo. A good display from Hogg on Saturday should put pressure on him.

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

See that's the difference there. I don't think a "solid" defensive display at FB against a team who offered nothing in attack should be enough to nail down a test spot.

You say we don't need him to attack, I say we don't need him to kick goals. He is no better than Sexton. Unless we're basing things on one game?

I agree he'll almost certainly be in the test team but he hasn't earned it yet imo. A good display from Hogg on Saturday should put pressure on him.

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Much like people will (justifiably) quote Rob Kearney's ERC player of the year award in 2012 when pushing his case, I'd point out that HP was the 6N player of the series 2013 - and he didn't get that award just for being a handy goalkicker.

Swiwi

Reds vs Lions Preview: The top five matchups (GAGR)

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/reds-vs-lions-key-matchups/

matTNT

totallegend wrote: »

I say we don't need him to kick goals. He is no better than Sexton.

You're wearing green goggles. Sexton is a top class kicker, not near the best, doesn't have the huge rain and near flawless rate that Halfpenney, Farrrell or Wilkinson have. Unlike Halfpenney he is a form based kicker, Sexton will kick goals even if he is not playing well however is Sexton is having a bad game his kicking sometimes suffers. Still a world class fly half and goal kicker but not the best.

They're both form kickers. Halfpenny has had shockers in the past too.

And on form, Halfpenny is kicking better.

If he has a couple of misfiring sessions, Sexton might take over the mantle, but you cannot argue with Halfpenny's kicking the other morning. Staggering stuff.

Buer

matTNT wrote: »

You're wearing green goggles. Sexton is a top class kicker, not near the best, doesn't have the huge rain and near flawless rate that Halfpenney, Farrrell or Wilkinson have.

See this is something that I struggle with. Let me qualify things first by saying, I'm firmly in the Halfpenny camp. He should be the starting full back and the starting kicker. No way can it be taken off him when he's in the form that he's in.

But in relation to saying those three boys have a near flawless rate that Sexton doesn't...well, it's simply untrue. Wilkinson is not the metronomic kicker that people seem to assume he is. In the HEC this season, he's well under 80%, probably closer to 70%. He had bit of a nightmare in the T14 final too when he was 3/7. I'm sure most of us recall the 2011 RWC where he was very poor off the tee also.

Farrell is the exact same, he can really bad days with Thomond being the most notable example. He was 69% in the 6N for England.

At domestic level, Halfpenny and Sexton are inseparable. Halfpenny edges the Pro12 by a fraction. Sexton edges HEC by a fraction. At international level, Halfpenny does have slightly higher stats. This season, he's about 82% and Sexton is about 74% so that's a fairly easy call but there does seem to be a notion that permeates that all these guys are undoubtedly better options which they're not really.

Buer

Also as an interesting point of note, Farrell slotted 11/11 against Racing Metro this season. He'd be the last one I'd want taking the kicks for the Lions though at the moment. Everyone has great days and bad days. There are no flawless kickers.

postitnote

I really don't want to be dragged into the kicking arguments, but I do think it's relevant to point out that the ball used in Hong Kong was a Rhino ball, and I don't think this is a ball that would commonly be used in the top flight rugby that Sexton, Halfpenny and Farrell have been using and practicing with this last season.

I would argue that any kicking performances in that game are fairly irrelevant in the main scheme of things.

AFAIK the ball being used for the Lions series is a Gilbert and so far we have 1 kicker who has used this ball on this series.

A gilbert and a rhino will be completely different to strike. Plus remember the world cup when there were complaints from the kickers that the ball wasn't quite right? I guess kicking is a fine tuning thing, give Tiger Woods a Pinnacle Gold and see what round he shoots around Augusta.

Disclaimer: I've done no research on what leagues or championships use what balls and am too lazy to do any.

Buer

Pro12 use Rhino.

TheKeenMachine

Buer wrote: »

Pro12 use Rhino.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Leinster train with Rhino balls only

Webbs

Buer wrote: »

At domestic level, Halfpenny and Sexton are inseparable. Halfpenny edges the Pro12 by a fraction. Sexton edges HEC by a fraction. At international level, Halfpenny does have slightly higher stats. This season, he's about 82% and Sexton is about 74% so that's a fairly easy call but there does seem to be a notion that permeates that all these guys are undoubtedly better options which they're not really.

Halfpenny shares kicking duties at the Blues and generally takes the longer range kicks so his stats are slightly skewed.
Saying that I would have no worries about halfpenny, sexton or farrell taking kicks at international level as they are all proven kickers.

Kiwi_knock

Looking forward to the match. The Reds have a competitive side out, and have a decent bench as well. Last chance for some of their players to grab one of the remaining slots in the Wallabies squad so you can be assured that they will be going all out for it.

Thekidneybean

Be interesting to see cooper vs. Farrell, having said that I feel when sexton comes on he will destroy cooper.just my opinion :-)

Fits Morris

With Jenkins injured, Vunipola now looks a lock for the Test team. A good performance from Hoggy tomorrow will see him move into serious contention given that he covers three positions. Another injury could see him start in Brisbane in two weeks' time.

Parling looks in good form and he's another one that could move right up the pecking order too.

theKramer

Swiwi wrote: »

Reds vs Lions Preview: The top five matchups (GAGR)

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/reds-vs-lions-key-matchups/

Love this line::
From the pine: Samo vs O’Connell

O’Connell – murderer
Either one of these man mountains could turn this match. Their combined age, 94, is the same as their hardness factor.

"Over his career O’Connell has killed three men as they tried to pick and drive against him."

irishbucsfan

Fits Morris wrote: »

With Jenkins injured, Vunipola now looks a lock for the Test team. A good performance from Hoggy tomorrow will see him move into serious contention given that he covers three positions. Another injury could see him start in Brisbane in two weeks' time.

Parling looks in good form and he's another one that could move right up the pecking order too.

Don't think Vunipola is a lock at all. I think it's right up in the air.

The Vunipola/Corbs battle starting early I guess.

pickarooney

If Samo is playing for the reds I guess that means the Wallabies are Radikeless?

And Vunipola is too short to be a lock.

sydthebeat

pickarooney wrote: »

If Samo is playing for the reds I guess that means the Wallabies are Radikeless?

And Vunipola is too short to be a lock.

Nice one

Buer

pickarooney wrote: »

If Samo is playing for the reds I guess that means the Wallabies are Radikeless?

And Vunipola is too short to be a lock.

Lock as in locked into the team or a cert to be selected.

*Hank Scorpio*

Thekidneybean wrote: »

Be interesting to see cooper vs. Farrell

This.

Wonder how much Cooper will try to wind up Farrell and if Farrell will keep his head.

Swiwi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Don't think Vunipola is a lock at all. I think it's right up in the air.

The Vunipola/Corbs battle starting early I guess.

Vunipola is clearly better round the field, but the jury is out as to who is the better scrummager. I would definitely favour a stronger scrummager for the first test, no question.

I would have taken Corbs ahead of Jenkins in the first place, Jenkins is a shadow of his former self in the last 12 months.

Thekidneybean

*Hank Scorpio* wrote: »

This.

Wonder how much Cooper will try to wind up Farrell and if Farrell will keep his head.

I dunno cause Coopers guna be dealing with the rest of the lions running through him :P

twinytwo

Swiwi wrote: »

Reds vs Lions Preview: The top five matchups (GAGR)

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/reds-vs-lions-key-matchups/

whats more interesting in that link is the lions top "hate" figure

1 Gatland
2 Young Farrell
3 Mike Phillips
4 Manu Tualagi
5 Old Farrell

pickarooney

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/the-lions-tour-how-it-happened-on-facebook-week-1/

Bit of a laugh

JustinDee

twinytwo wrote: »

whats more interesting in that link is the lions top "hate" figure

1 Gatland
2 Young Farrell
3 Mike Phillips
4 Manu Tualagi
5 Old Farrell

"Old Farrell" is probably the only person in that list that a large number of Aussies would know.

SebBerkovich

twinytwo wrote: »

whats more interesting in that link is the lions top "hate" figure

1 Gatland
2 Young Farrell
3 Mike Phillips
4 Manu Tualagi
5 Old Farrell

Can't believe Manu Tualagi is on this list, someone should clear this up by letting them know he punched Ashton in the face.:pac:

Chabals Beard

I like Tualagi as a player and a person.. seems fairly genuine.

astonaidan

How are people feeling about the points difference for tomorrow

yimrsg

Haven't seen it mentioned but Samo played against the Lions 12 years ago.

http://www.lionsrugby.com/history/match_archives.php?section=lineups&fixid=58555