Get outta my lane.

Sparks

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

Why?

Worse milage, higher insurance premiums, higher cost of ownership, higher risk of theft, more scrutiny from the Gardai... and that's just the first things that come to mind.

Its far safer for overtaking on normal roads

Safety's important? Don't overtake, that's safer still.

can overtake in gaps other cars couldn't so less time stuck behind people

So safety's not important? Then buy a motorbike!

far better brakes so can stop quicker so Im safer in it

Wait, we're back to safety being important? Come on Rik Mr.B'stard, that's not very consistent.

can corner better and faster than other normal cars

Need that on the M50 a lot? If so, buy a motorbike! (After all, you can never have enough available organs for transplant :P )

it also (believe it or not) doesn't have a speed limiter so it can exceed 120km/h with ease

...just not legally. Anywhere. At any time. For any reason.

boring cars on the road.

I like boring. Boring is great when you're talking about cars on the road. Exciting tends to involve loud noises and rapidly changing and rotating views and phone calls that start with "Honey, the good news is, we know the airbags work!"

So yeah, I'll skip exciting on the road, thanks. I mean, exciting is what sex is for, not cars.

Sparks

SeanW wrote: »

Not an excuse for driving slower in the right lane than traffic in more leftward lanes. Either you're going faster than traffic to your left, or you are not. No ifs ands or buts about it.

There's no ifs ands or buts, however there are scenarios -- like the one explicitly pointed out -- where what you just said is flat out wrong.

Capt'n Midnight

smoking_kills wrote: »

But won't that interfere with the RFID chip they put in my head

No because the device would be like an smartphone with no battery or screen, but still having camera , accelerometer and 3G connection. So it could email the video of the offending act to you. Bonus points if it then films you answering that email on your phone while driving.

Capt'n Midnight

degsie wrote: »

Maybe it's just me but I'd consider that to be aggressive driving! You are going out of your way to make a point by crossing 1 or 2 lanes and then encouraging the driver in the rightmost lane to move across 1 or 2 lanes so you can overtake and then move back to the leftmost lane by crossing 1 or 2 lanes. All seems a bit pointless to me.

Or you could risk getting points by undertaking which is illegal .

usually when I'm doing this to someone driving at 10Km/h under the speed limit I do it a lane at a time, including cancelling the indicator in between.

Sparks

Sparks wrote: »

Worse milage, higher insurance premiums, higher cost of ownership, higher risk of theft, more scrutiny from the Gardai... and that's just the first things that come to mind.

Yes to burning more petrol (well worth it for being able to blast passed people trying to act as rolling road blocks). I do find it hard to believe but no there is very little difference in insurance if any, owner ship costs are pretty average compared to any car. You can't live your life in fear of thiefs and I've had absolutely no attention from gardai bar being waved through 2 or 3 checkpoints in a year and a half of ownership.

Sparks wrote: »

Safety's important? Don't overtake, that's safer still.

Safety is important, but being able to make progress, overtake etc while sacrificing almost no safety is even better.

Sparks wrote: »

So safety's not important? Then buy a motorbike!

Bikes are of no interest to me.

Sparks wrote: »

Wait, we're back to safety being important? Come on Rik Mr.B'stard, that's not very consistent.

Honestly who the hell is Rik?

Sparks wrote: »

Need that on the M50 a lot? If so, buy a motorbike! (After all, you can never have enough available organs for transplant :P )

I drive on the M50 about once a year if even, I don't live anywhere near dublin. My driving consists of a mix of N roads, back roads motorways and some city driving.

Sparks wrote: »

...just not legally. Anywhere. At any time. For any reason.

Not bothered about it being legal or not.

Sparks wrote: »

I like boring. Boring is great when you're talking about cars on the road. Exciting tends to involve loud noises and rapidly changing and rotating views and phone calls that start with "Honey, the good news is, we know the airbags work!"

So yeah, I'll skip exciting on the road, thanks. I mean, exciting is what sex is for, not cars.

For a lot of people cars are exciting and are a real passion and exciting is most definitely for cars. You will also find its the boring cars that tend to have their airbags deployed much more often than the exciting ones as for one they are not as capable on the road and two their drivers (often due to a lack of interest) are not as competent on the road.

It that whole post you made one point that wasn't absolute nonsense, the one about fuel consumption.

Topper Harley

I understand why people have a problem with others speeding but I don't understand how they can defend disobeying the rules of the road just because others are possibly breaking the speed limit.

For people who have a problem with a car going faster than them (possibly speeding) in lane 2/3 why not just briefly speed up a little to complete your overtaking manoeuvre (assuming that's what you're doing) and move back out of the lane.

If briefly speeding up is something that a driver is genuinely not comfortable with, rather than just being stubborn, so be it, carry on as you were until is safe to move back to lane 1.

Sparks wrote: »

Worse milage, higher insurance premiums, higher cost of ownership, higher risk of theft, more scrutiny from the Gardai... and that's just the first things that come to mind.

Need that on the M50 a lot? If so, buy a motorbike! (After all, you can never have enough available organs for transplant :P )

I like boring. Boring is great when you're talking about cars on the road. Exciting tends to involve loud noises and rapidly changing and rotating views and phone calls that start with "Honey, the good news is, we know the airbags work!"

So yeah, I'll skip exciting on the road, thanks. I mean, exciting is what sex is for, not cars.

I'm getting the impression you have a chip on your shoulder regarding certain cars...and possibly motorbikes.

Sparks

Topper Harley wrote: »

I'm getting the impression you have a chip on your shoulder regarding certain cars

I certainly have a chip on my shoulder for that f*cker who keeps driving up my tailpipe while we're doing the limit in lane 2 and flashing his lights while on his mobile and lane 3 is open...

...and possibly motorbikes.

Just wouldn't get on one if you paid me to

It's more the Alan B'stard posters above who're cracking me up. I mean lads, if you're so utterly unconcerned with obeying the law regarding speed limits but expect everyone else to obey the law regarding keeping left; well, you and the horse you rode in on, sunshine...

Cungi

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Or you could risk getting points by undertaking which is illegal .

usually when I'm doing this to someone driving at 10Km/h under the speed limit I do it a lane at a time, including cancelling the indicator in between.

Undertaking Overtaking on the left is not illegal when the traffic in the lefthand lane is moving faster

From RSA website:

You may overtake on the left when

You want to go straight ahead when the driver in front of you has moved out and signalled that they intend to turn right.

You have signalled that you intend to turn left.

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

Sparks

Cungi wrote: »

Traffic in both lanes is moving slowly and traffic in the left-hand lane is moving more quickly than the traffic in the right-hand lane.

Yeah, but is that slowly relative to jet aircraft?

RustyNut

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

We have the rules and laws. Education and enforcement are needed. And they are a lot cheaper than building a third lane.

This is the only answer. I think the new learner system will go a long way to fix the education issue, enforcement is the biggest issue that needs to be dealt with. So long as you are not speeding anything else seems to be ok.
If every time someone passed a camera on the 50 with an empty lane to the left there was a €50 reminder to keep left in the post people would soon cop on to the rules of the road.
Same for roundabouts, junction boxes, amber lights etc. Driving would be so much more pleasant, we would all get where we are going quicker and once everyone was playing by the same rules the speed limits on motorways could be increased, or dare I say done away with altogether like our German overlords.

--Kaiser--

RustyNut wrote: »

If every time someone passed a camera on the 50 with an empty lane to the left there was a €50 reminder to keep left in the post people would soon cop on to the rules of the road.

Ha ha, brilliant

Topper Harley

Sparks wrote: »

I certainly have a chip on my shoulder for that f*cker who keeps driving up my tailpipe while we're doing the limit in lane 2 and flashing his lights while on his mobile and lane 3 is open...

It's more the Alan B'stard posters above who're cracking me up. I mean lads, if you're so utterly unconcerned with obeying the law regarding speed limits but expect everyone else to obey the law regarding keeping left; well, you and the horse you rode in on, sunshine...

Well I understand where you're coming from, there's no need for aggressive behaviour. I personally never really flash anyone under those circumstances as, even if it's not meant aggressively, chances are, it will only succeed it getting someone's back up.

And there is a lot of justifying disobeying one rule because others are disobeying another in this thread. But it goes both ways.

But a lane hogger who's not overtaking is always in the wrong. Even if they are doing the speed limit. The person who gets stuck behind them is only in the wrong if they are speeding. It is possible and so, so common that someone sits in lane 2/3 while not overtaking and not doing the speed limit. I've even seen people merge onto an almost empty M50 and veer straight over to lane 3 and just sit there while I'm travelling faster than them (no faster than the limit) in lane 1. This is inexcusable and people are just going slightly off topic by bringing up arguments that people shouldn't be speeding.

Sparks wrote: »

Just wouldn't get on one if you paid me to

Hey, don't knock it 'till you've tried it. But that's a topic for another forum.

OldGoat

michael.dublin wrote: »

And here, I was under the impression, that rules of the road is saying, that you have to stick to the speed limited  Ok I guess I was wrong, it is a little like traffic lights, only a recommendation.
And yes I know, every other driver on the road is a asshole, and it is perfectly ok to go 150 on the motorway, or any other road.
The fact is, that speed limited is there and they have to be followed, and if you don’t like that, well then get in contact with the TD’s and local politician, and get them to change the rules of the road and speed limited, but until that happened. The speed limited is what it is
Drive safely out there.

This is not about speeding, it's about drivers failing to move to the left as they are required to do by the rules of the road.
It's about drivers who never break the speed limit but insist on staying in lane 2 or 3 or 4 (refered to in this thread as the overtaking lanes) rather then moving back to lane 1 as soon as it is safe to do so...as required by the rules of the road.

Gotham wrote: »

I disagree, it's happened me a few times, although I didn't have the misfortune of having impatient people behind me.

Indicate to show your intent to move back to lane 1 and drivers there will make a gap for you.

StinkyMunkey

I generally always drive in and around the speed limit, if someone wants to get past me, i just pull over and let them past. Dont really see the need to be a twat by hogging a lane. I let the Guards police the roads, all im interested in is getting to my destination in one piece. Id rather go about my buiness in peace without some muppet driving up my ass because he wants to get past.

Capt'n Midnight

Cungi wrote: »

Undertaking Overtaking on the left is not illegal when the traffic in the lefthand lane is moving faster

we're talking about people hogging the middle lane on motorways / dual carriageways

so in most cases there is no right turn because of the meridian
10km/h below the speed limit cannot be considered slow
anyone turning left has already moved into the deceleration lane

Cungi

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

we're talking about people hogging the middle lane on motorways / dual carriageways

so in most cases there is no right turn because of the meridian
10km/h below the speed limit cannot be considered slow
anyone turning left has already moved into the deceleration lane

I was just referring to your comment that overtaking on the left is illegal.
In some circumstances it isnt, even on a motorway according to RSA.

I agree that 10km/h below the speed limit probably wouldn't be considered slow but i guess it all depends on what the Gard or Judge considers slow after he/she pulls you over.

Owenw

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

we're talking about people hogging the middle lane on motorways / dual carriageways

so in most cases there is no right turn because of the meridian
10km/h below the speed limit cannot be considered slow
anyone turning left has already moved into the deceleration lane

Likewise doing 10km/h (6mph) above the speed limit can hardly be described as speeding

Are there any hard and fast rules about not speeding up in the acceleration lane to match the mainline speed whilst merging?

Gotham

SeanW wrote: »

Not an excuse for driving slower in the right lane than traffic in more leftward lanes. Either you're going faster than traffic to your left, or you are not. No ifs ands or buts about it.

Then there really is no point to having 3 lanes on the m50, the third lane will never get used since everyone in the middle is always at 100km and you cant be breaking the speed limit in lane 3.

Capt'n Midnight

Owenw wrote: »

Likewise doing 10km/h (6mph) above the speed limit can hardly be described as speeding

Are there any hard and fast rules about not speeding up in the acceleration lane to match the mainline speed whilst merging?

That word "limit" I don't think it means what you think it means.

Capt'n Midnight

Oddly enough it was around this time last year I had to pay a €100 fine for hogging the middle lane. And the worst bit was they wouldn't let me renew my membership at that swimming pool.

Capt'n Midnight

Owenw wrote: »

Are there any hard and fast rules about not speeding up in the acceleration lane to match the mainline speed whilst merging?

The rule is you must yield to traffic already in the lane you are entering and that if they don't let you merge then you must stop and wait for a gap.

IIRC in some parts of the US of A you can exceed the speed limit when overtaking as long as you don't do it for more than 1/4 mile. Then again they hand out guns to teenagers and ban kinder eggs.

Capt'n Midnight

Gotham wrote: »

Then there really is no point to having 3 lanes on the m50, the third lane will never get used since everyone in the middle is always at 100km and you cant be breaking the speed limit in lane 3.

Have you been on the N7 southbound ?

The leftmost lane is barely used.

In the UK on busy motorways it's usually the left most lane for HGV's and buses, the middle lane for cars travelling at the limit +/- 5mph and the right lane for people overtaking and ducking in before the speeders catch up

In the UK emergency service vehicles don't travel in the rightmost lane because they aren't allowed speed - there is no point in creating an emergency on the way to one.

opti0nal

Jett Old-fashioned Risk wrote: »

If they persist in making a nuisance and a danger of themselves to me and other road users then there is no option left but to undertake thus they are causing even more danger by their poor driving.

No option?

How about: wait until it is possible to overtake legally and safely?

Just because some else is driving inconsiderately does not give you license to drive illegally and unsafely.

Owenw

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

That word "limit" I don't think it means what you think it means.

It's a guideline not a target, right?

Quazzie

Sparks wrote: »

I mean lads, if you're so utterly unconcerned with obeying the law regarding speed limits but expect everyone else to obey the law regarding keeping left; well, you and the horse you rode in on, sunshine...

Keep yourself legal and stay in the left lane if not overtaking somebody, and let everyone else worry about keeping themselves legal. If you're driving legally as to the ROTR then it has no bearing on you what speed others are driving

greenflash

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

In the UK on busy motorways it's usually the left most lane for HGV's and buses, the middle lane for cars travelling at the limit +/- 5mph and the right lane for people overtaking and ducking in before the speeders catch up

Definitely not my experience from six years of living in England and driving on British motorways, plus frequent trips over the years since I lived there.

Any three (or more) lane road I ever drove on in Britain was used pretty much as it should be - left lane general driving for everyone and two overtaking lanes - same as it should be here, regardless of how busy a road is.

In Ireland there is just a general willful ignorance of how to do things properly. Driving correctly seems to be a sign of weakness, whether it's lane usage, indicating, merging or pretty much anything else where there are written laws/procedures in place.

I have driven from Bray to Swords on a Sunday morning and seen not a single car in lane one, other than myself. I started counting cars sitting one behind the other in the middle lane but gave up in the mid 30s. Regardless of how busy a road is at any given time, people here just do not know how to drive because doing things properly is not important to the vast majority.

I've even asked a few friends why they sit in the middle lane on the M50 N7 etc just to see what they said. Most of them pull a face as if I've just taken a dump in the glove compartment, as if to say "why the hell would anyone do that". Driving in lane one is just not what people do here. I've seen people fight to join a crowded lane 2 when lane 1 is empty. Some people say they get nowhere in lane 1 so head for lane 2 if they want a relaxed drive or lane 3 of they're in a hurry... bizarre. I drive the M50 from Swords to the N4, N7 or M11 three or four times a week, depending on where I'm working and without fail, every morning if I see someone join at Ballymun or Finglas and take off in the outside lane, I will be ahead of them in lane 1 around Blanch and out of sight by Lucan as the outside lane moves a lot slower.

Really don't know what it is whether some blokes feel emasculated by driving in the "slow lane". Same with indicating... does it somehow make you a complete wuss if you indicate before changing lane and leave it on until the manoevre is completed? The norm seems to be half a flash once you've moved into a lane. Meh

degsie

^^^^
What he said. It's true if we were to be honest about it!

Shenshen

General question :

I learned in Germany that undertaking is when one car pulls out of the overtaking lane into a lane to its right (or left, in Ireland), passes another car and then pulls back into the original lane. In short, a complete overtaking maneuver, just mirrored.

Driving past someone, however, in whichever lane you choose, is not classified as undertaking as such, since you do not move back into the other lane in front of the car you just passed.

Would anyone know if there is a similar distinction in Ireland?

HurtLocker

Shenshen wrote: »

General question :

I learned in Germany that undertaking is when one car pulls out of the overtaking lane into a lane to its right (or left, in Ireland), passes another car and then pulls back into the original lane. In short, a complete overtaking maneuver, just mirrored.

Driving past someone, however, in whichever lane you choose, is not classified as undertaking as such, since you do not move back into the other lane in front of the car you just passed.

Would anyone know if there is a similar distinction in Ireland?

The undertaking that is illegal is when you pull into the hard shoulder and overtake in it.

The undertaking you described is legal I think but not really done,unless the overtaking lane is being hogged. If the left lane is going faster thank the right lane you can overtake in it. It's one of 3 reasons you can overtake in the left lane on any road that is acceptable answer in the Irish driving test anyway. If your following the ROR there should be no reason to pull out infront of the other car unless your overtaking a car in the left lane.

Capt'n Midnight

Re Hard Shoulder

In Ireland if the hard shoulder has a dashed line you are encouraged to move into it to let people overtake you if it's safe to do so.

Obviously this doesn't apply on motorways because of the continuous line.

Again because people prefer to hog the middle of the road you have crazy situtions where it's impossible to pass someone on our N roads even though there may be two lanes worth of driveable road on their left :mad: