Dad wears nazi uniform for child custody case!

orestes

miralize wrote: »

He is a ****ing Nazi.

Yes, but that doesn't instantly mean he's crazy. It's a political ideology, not a mental condition.

Candie wrote: »

I think his case is a bit special though, don't you?

Nope.

Napper Hawkins

miralize wrote: »

All religions sound like that, but thats not the point of this thread is it?

What is the point of this thread, exactly?

miralize

orestes wrote: »

Yes, but that doesn't instantly mean he's crazy. It's a political ideology, not a mental condition.



Nope.

I'm not saying he's crazy. I'm saying that his beliefs are incredibly damaging & offensive, and children shouldn't be exposed to it in a positive light.

miralize

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

What is the point of this thread, exactly?

It's AH, so probably nothing.

orestes

miralize wrote: »

I'm not saying he's crazy. I'm saying that his beliefs are incredibly damaging & offensive, and children shouldn't be exposed to it in a positive light.

Thinking that somebodies children should be taken off them because their political beliefs are dangerous is a pretty fascist point of view.

orestes

orestes wrote: »

Nope.

Do you think it's appropriate parenting to name your children as 'creatively' as he has done, and to show up in court dressed in a Nazi uniform with a Hitler moustache?

Do you think this might signal some shortcomings in his ability to behave in a contexually appropriate manner? Or that he has his childrens best interests at heart, instead of using the occasion as a platform to promote himself and his ideology?

Do you think this man as a father will provide his children with a decent role model and do his best to integrate them into society as upstanding citizens?

Do you think there might be a chance that he harbours hateful views on certain minorities and might poison his kids in that direction?

If I was sitting as a judge in that court, those are all questions I'd be asking myself.

miralize

orestes wrote: »

Thinking that somebodies children should be taken off them because their political beliefs are dangerous is a pretty fascist point of view.

You do know that around the world Nazism is considered illegal? Albeit not in America, but its an incredibly low minority of people that support it.

And you are aware of what they did in the 40's?

The American Nazi party denies that the holocaust happened.

keelanj69

orestes wrote: »

Thinking that somebodies children should be taken off them because their political beliefs are dangerous is a pretty fascist point of view.

I guess the guy wont mind losing his kids so.

the_syco

miralize wrote: »

His beliefs deny rights for swathes of people all the time time.

I think he's doing it so that his "rights" are denied, so he can use it in his propaganda.

orestes

Candie wrote: »

Do you think it's appropriate parenting to name your children as 'creatively' as he has done, and to show up in court dressed in a Nazi uniform with a Hitler moustache?

I honestly hope the day never comes that a persons civil rights depend on what I or anybody else consider appropriate.

Candie wrote: »

Do you think this might signal some shortcomings in his ability to behave in a contexually appropriate manner? Or that he has his childrens best interests at heart, instead of using the occasion as a platform to promote himself and his ideology?

For the first part, same as above. For the second part, it should have nothing to do with the case at hand, which is exactly the point he is making.

Candie wrote: »

Do you think this man as a father will provide his children with a decent role model and do his best to integrate them into society as upstanding citizens?

How am I supposed to know what kind of father he is? All I know is that he's a Nazi.

Candie wrote: »

Do you think there might be a chance that he harbours hateful views on certain minorities and might poison his kids in that direction?

You mean just like every other parent?

Candie wrote: »

If I was sitting as a judge in that court, those are all questions I'd be asking myself.

Judges should make rulings based on the law, not their feelings.

miralize wrote: »

You do know that around the world Nazism is considered illegal? Albeit not in America, but its an incredibly low minority of people that support it.

And you are aware of what they did in the 40's?

The American Nazi party denies that the holocaust happened.

Being a Nazi isn't illegal in the UK afaik.

orestes

orestes wrote: »

I honestly hope the day never comes that a persons civil rights depend on what I or anybody else consider appropriate.

I'm pretty concerned with the childrens rights here, and I hope the judge is. I think kids have a right to be raised without hate, something pretty intrinsic to this guys 'beliefs' and ideology. Because it is inappropriate. And I think they have a right to grow up without being used as tools for their dad self-promoting use.

For the first part, same as above. For the second part, it should have nothing to do with the case at hand, which is exactly the point he is making.

I probably don't get the point you're making here, but there are appropriate standards we expect parents to fulfil. Like feeding, caring and nurturing kids and guiding them towards being decent and functioning adults. This guy, by his actions, has shown that his take on this falls short of what we know to be best for kids.

How am I supposed to know what kind of father he is? All I know is that he's a Nazi.

You know that he has crippled his kids with names that will tarnish them. You know that he's showing up proclaiming his universally reviled ideology/belief system, thus making a statement about what he thinks is appropriate to expose his kids to. I don't know everything about him, but I'm guessing most people will think those are pretty bad moves for a father.

You mean just like every other parent?

Other parents make us guess. This guy is setting out his stall and giving us the finger. It's up to the rest of the world to tell him it's not a good idea to spread his hate to his kids, since he obviously thinks its not a problem.

Judges should make rulings based on the law, not their feelings.

Agreed. And the law will expect the judge to look at his pattern of parenting. If he does and thinks this guy can make a decent fist of raising the kids, then great. But if that happens, it won't be because the father has helped his case by turning up with a swastika tattoo and a Nazi uniform in a world where all decent thinking people find that abhorrent.

The other parent also gave the kids their names. How is she any better than him?

Cody Pomeray

miralize wrote: »

And you are aware of what they did in the 40's?

The Big Bang Theory described the foundation of our universe.
The United Nations was founded,
and the first computer was built


I can't think of anything else......

Strawberry Milkshake

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

The other parent also gave the kids their names. How is she any better than him?

She doesn't have them either. The kids were taken into care and the father is seeking visitation.

I hope he gets it, but not custody. The kids have a right to know him.

I'm assuming she's no better, but there are no pictures of her showing up at court with a swastika tattoo and wearing a Nazi uniform so it's just him under discussion.

orestes

Candie wrote: »

I'm pretty concerned with the childrens rights here, and I hope the judge is. I think kids have a right to be raised without hate, something pretty intrinsic to this guys 'beliefs' and ideology. Because it is inappropriate. And I think they have a right to grow up without being used as tools for their dad self-promoting use.

You know, that statement could be applied to a lot of parents who raise their kids according to religious principles too. Do you think that Catholics should have their kids taken off them so that they can't raise them as homophobes?

Candie wrote: »

I probably don't get the point you're making here, but there are appropriate standards we expect parents to fulfil. Like feeding, caring and nurturing kids and guiding them towards being decent and functioning adults. This guy, by his actions, has shown that his take on this falls short of what we know to be best for kids.

No, it disagrees with what you believe to be right for his kids, which is the key idea of the point I am trying to make - where is the line between the rights of a parent and the responsibility of the state?

Candie wrote: »

You know that he has crippled his kids with names that will tarnish them. You know that he's showing up proclaiming his universally reviled ideology/belief system, thus making a statement about what he thinks is appropriate to expose his kids to. I don't know everything about him, but I'm guessing most people will think those are pretty bad moves for a father.

Again, who is anybody else to decide what is right for his children? His beliefs are highly unpopular, but that doesn't mean that holding them means he forfeits his rights, which is basically one of the entire points of people having civil rights.

Candie wrote: »

Other parents make us guess. This guy is setting out his stall and giving us the finger. It's up to the rest of the world to tell him it's not a good idea to spread his hate to his kids, since he obviously thinks its not a problem.

It's up to the rest of the world to tell him how to raise his kids to stop him spreading his hate to them - you honestly don't see anything contradictory or fascist in this idea?

Candie wrote: »

Agreed. And the law will expect the judge to look at his pattern of parenting. If he does and thinks this guy can make a decent fist of raising the kids, then great. But if that happens, it won't be because the father has helped his case by turning up with a swastika tattoo and a Nazi uniform in a world where all decent thinking people find that abhorrent.

Again, civil rights are there to guarantee a persons rights regardless of what "decent thinking" people think.


I don't agree with Nazi ideology in any way btw, I find racism and bigotry of all kinds completely disgusting, but I believe in the idea that civil rights apply to everybody, not just the people that I happen to agree with.

Da Shins Kelly

It probably should be pointed out that the kids were taken from him because of allegations of abuse, supposedly, not because of his Nazi beliefs.

orestes

orestes wrote: »

I don't agree with Nazi ideology in any way btw, I find racism and bigotry of all kinds completely disgusting, but I believe in the idea that civil rights apply to everybody, not just the people that I happen to agree with.

I'm a bit tired so I'll just answer this bit

I think the rights of the children should always be put first, and that their best interests must take precedence over the rights of the parent, in all cases. For example, I think a baby boys right not to be genitally mutilated is greater than a parents right to indoctrinate their son in the faith that demand it.

Similarly, this man has every right to adhere to his ideology and belief system. However, since we can assume - and I'm using the childrens names as the basis of this assumption - that he intends to impart these to his kids, I think it's incumbent on the state to prevent them from being brainwashed with racist hate, knowing as we do that this is a very bad thing both for the kids and for society as a whole.

Few religions are as relentlessly unedifying as this mans ideology, and I'd feel the same about the ones that are. Religion would tend not to mark a child out in the same way as having Adolf picking you up from school would, or having to sign Aryan Nation on your college transcripts might. If it did, then spare the kids would be my take.

He's free to believe what he wants and no one should interfere with that unless he harms someone else and I believe being allowed raise his children in the way he wants would cause them harm.

clairefontaine

orestes wrote: »

Thinking that somebodies children should be taken off them because their political beliefs are dangerous is a pretty fascist point of view.

I agree with you for the most part. What I do find questionable is he is using his custody case to make a political point. Not exactly putting the kids first.

Irish Guitarist

Yesterday there was a thread about how someone went to court wearing only shorts. Now a man is making an effort to dress up for his court appearance and people still find something to complain about. :mad:

He sounds like a nice person too.

Asked whether dressing up as a Nazi was likely to help his case, Mr Campbell was confident it would not be held against him: "If they're good judges and they're good people, they'll look within, not what's on the outside."

He's clearly teaching his children not to judge people based on how they look.

Scruffles

it looks like he is trying his hardest to fail so he can scream discrimination and fascism,which woud be irony and hypocrisy coming from him.
wind yer swastika tattooed neck in and stop trying to be a victim when the only real victims are the children; they have grown up having his beliefs enforced on them,his choice of names-which result in bullying, and a dysfunctional family life.they need a stable family they woud be better off being fostered with a relative who can do the job.

meoklmrk91

This ****ing toolbox can believe what ever he wants to believe. He had his kids taken away because there was evidence if abuse. Also I think his stunt really shows how serious he is about wanting his kids back :rolleyes:.

Jimmy Garlic

Nazis had the most epic uniforms ever.. Snazzi

The Corinthian

When I read the thread title, I thought his attire was some sort of protest statement about father's rights - then when I read the article, I realized that it's just because he's a nut.

Forget the Nazi stuff; bottom line is this guy (and potentially his wife) are nutjobs. Thing is that the World is full of nutjobs with kids and in practical terms there's little we can do about it. Nutjobs raise kids all the time and sometimes those kids turn out OK and sometimes not so OK (but almost always they are scarred in one manner or another). My own generation is full of kids that were raised by hippies; I've known more than one peer fscked up by such childhoods.

I suspect he's largely being targeted because he's a Nazi. Any other religion or ideology and I doubt that social welfare services (a profession famous for it's ideological impartiality :rolleyes: ) would get involved, or make accusations.

miralize wrote: »

I'm not saying he's crazy. I'm saying that his beliefs are incredibly damaging & offensive, and children shouldn't be exposed to it in a positive light.

Perhaps we should forcibly remove all children from the care of their parents if they are adherents to the Salafi school of Islam. Or if they're anarchists. Or vegans. Or Roman Catholic. Lot of potentially damaging and/or offensive faiths and ideologies out there.

conorhal

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

The thing that strikes me about this is not the fact that he is absolutely cracked but the fact he was able to find the 1 in 7 billion wife who is equally as cracked to have his kids.

Which kind of warms my heart and makes me think that perhaps there truely is sombody out there for everybody.......:o

conorhal

The Corinthian wrote: »

When I read the thread title, I thought his attire was some sort of protest statement about father's rights - then when I read the article, I realized that it's just because he's a nut.

Forget the Nazi stuff; bottom line is this guy (and potentially his wife) are nutjobs. Thing is that the World is full of nutjobs with kids and in practical terms there's little we can do about it. Nutjobs raise kids all the time and sometimes those kids turn out OK and sometimes not so OK (but almost always they are scarred in one manner or another). My own generation is full of kids that were raised by hippies; I've known more than one peer fscked up by such childhoods.

I suspect he's largely being targeted because he's a Nazi. Any other religion or ideology and I doubt that social welfare services (a profession famous for it's ideological impartiality :rolleyes: ) would get involved, or make accusations.

Perhaps we should forcibly remove all children from the care of their parents if they are adherents to the Salafi school of Islam. Or if they're anarchists. Or vegans. Or Roman Catholic. Lot of potentially damaging and/or offensive faiths and ideologies out there.

On the whole I agree, nobody seems to be taking Abu Hamza's kids off him.

BUT...

Regardless of the lack of impartiality on the part of social services, you can't leave children in the care of a nutter that's more juvenile then a child.
Most parents will fuk up their kids in one way or another, but few deliberately set out to do so.

KTRIC

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

Nazis had the most epic uniforms ever.. Snazzi

Well the were produced by Hugo Boss. You have to hand it to them, whatever about their polices and actions during the war they knew how to do it in style.

elefant

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

The Big Bang Theory described the foundation of our universe.
The United Nations was founded,
and the first computer was built


I can't think of anything else......

Galway liberated from Indians

Sin City

In my own opinion the guy is nuts alright however there are many parents out there who are a few cans short of a 6 pack. Look at that family over in America who protest dead soldiers funerals saying God wanted them to die, and the world should hate "fags" and "Fag" enablers. They still have their kids

A lot of people especailly in the States hate Muslims, are their kids to be taken away too?


(They should all be taken away IMO but for some reason they are not so why this guy is being targeted ? )

discus

Some very good points raised in the last ~10 posts or so. Totally unfair to target this man, when there is far worse going on.

the_syco

Candie wrote: »

I hope he gets it, but not custody. The kids have a right to know him.

I hope he doesn't, as he'll only confuse the children.

Candie wrote: »

I'm assuming she's no better, but there are no pictures of her showing up at court with a swastika tattoo and wearing a Nazi uniform so it's just him under discussion.

I'm pretty sure she was behind him also dressed as a Nazi?