Bitter Atheists.

silentrust

Sarky wrote: »

Blimey, is he still hanging around?

Don't fear the Reaper.

kylith

silentrust wrote: »

When I campaigned against the British National Party back home on the grounds they were racist, tragically right wing and none too bright, some people did comment in a nasty way, "You seem to know an awful lot about them for someone that hates them."

I really didn't understand this way of thinking. Should we judge people based on what they say and do or on what they've never said or done? And how are we going to know if we don't take the time to find out?

I've gotten that a lot at family gatherings "You know an awful lot about religion, for an atheist". I've since learned that the correct answer is "Yes, I do. That's why I am an atheist". Though I'm thinking of altering it to "And you know incredibly little, for a Catholic".

I think that some people think that having an interest in something is only acceptable if it's something that you're in favour of. They just can't conceive of doing any research into something that you're not actively for.

It's a lesson I learned when Harry Potter came out; if you're going to say something is poorly written drivel, plagiarised from a dozen difference sources, and full of mind-numbing idiocy, then you'd sure as hells better be able to discuss why you've come to that conclusion.

silentrust

kylith wrote: »

I've gotten that a lot at family gatherings "You know an awful lot about religion, for an atheist". I've since learned that the correct answer is "Yes, I do. That's why I am an atheist". Though I'm thinking of altering it to "And you know incredibly little, for a Catholic".

I think that some people think that having an interest in something is only acceptable if it's something that you're in favour of. They just can't conceive of doing any research into something that you're not actively for.

It's a lesson I learned when Harry Potter came out; if you're going to say something is poorly written drivel, plagiarised from a dozen difference sources, and full of mind-numbing idiocy, then you'd sure as hells better be able to discuss why you've come to that conclusion.

Well said Kylith - for this reason (and to my shame!) I originally read pirated versions of the first five books over a weekend back in 2006 to see what all the fuss was about.

As we said previously of course there's the other type of religious person who assumes that we dismiss religion because we haven't learned enough about it.

I spent the first 23 years of my life as a Christian. It's safe to say that in that time I heard their pitch. Then I decided that I wasn't going to buy, you give the reasons why and you're still the bad guy! :-)

Buzz84

kylith wrote: »

I've gotten that a lot at family gatherings "You know an awful lot about religion, for an atheist". I've since learned that the correct answer is "Yes, I do. That's why I am an atheist". Though I'm thinking of altering it to "And you know incredibly little, for a Catholic".

I think that some people think that having an interest in something is only acceptable if it's something that you're in favour of. They just can't conceive of doing any research into something that you're not actively for.

It's a lesson I learned when Harry Potter came out; if you're going to say something is poorly written drivel, plagiarised from a dozen difference sources, and full of mind-numbing idiocy, then you'd sure as hells better be able to discuss why you've come to that conclusion.

Its a matter of faith, I don't believe there is a god It's as simple as that. I don't feel the need to obsess about it. Why would I? no amount of reading is going to change my mind or proof that I'm right.

You either believe in it or you dont. Why would you learn about something that
you dont believe is real.

silentrust

Buzz84 wrote: »

Why would you learn about something that
you dont believe is real.

I've only explained my reasons about five times now, would you like me to copy and paste or can you scroll up? :-)

Corkfeen

Buzz84 wrote: »

Its a matter of faith, I don't believe there is a god It's as simple as that. I don't feel the need to obsess about it. Why would I? no amount of reading is going to change my mind or proof that I'm right.

You either believe in it or you dont. Why would you learn about something that
you dont believe is real.

I'm not sure it would be a major topic in Ireland if it weren't for the considerable influence which Catholicism has over the running of the state. You appear to have ignored the other posters that have pointed to this.

If you glance over what is discussed on this forum, it goes far further than simply discussing if god exists or not. There a discussion on gay marriage, assisted suicide and abortion on the first page alone. So you clearly have done very little reading on this forum.

silentrust

Corkfeen wrote: »

I'm not sure it would be a major topic in Ireland if it weren't for the considerable influence which Catholicism has over the running of the state. You appear to have ignored the other posters that have pointed to this.

If you glance over what is discussed on this forum, it goes far further than simply discussing if god exists or not. There a discussion one on gay marriage, assisted suicide and abortion on the first page alone. So you clearly have done very little reading on this forum.

Well said Corkfeen - a woman dies due to a failure to provide an abortion in good time, the delay being partly due to the fact that Ireland is apparently a Catholic country and then the religious look at us askance and ask us why we have such a beef with their faith.

Zombrex

Buzz84 wrote: »

Its a matter of faith, I don't believe there is a god It's as simple as that. I don't feel the need to obsess about it. Why would I? no amount of reading is going to change my mind or proof that I'm right.

You either believe in it or you dont. Why would you learn about something that
you dont believe is real.

Because there is a huge organisation made up of literally billions of people who believe it is all real and who wish to structure the world around the rules that they believe were handed down to them by what ever pie in the sky deity they believe in.

As has been said on this forum many many times atheists will stop being concerned with theism when theists stop being concerned with atheists.

silentrust

Zombrex wrote: »

Because there is a huge organisation made up of literally billions of people who believe it is all real and who wish to structure the world around the rules that they believe were handed down to them by what ever pie in the sky deity they believe in.

As has been said on this forum many many times atheists will stop being concerned with theism when theists stop being concerned with atheists.

Clear? :-)

Obliq

Buzz84 wrote: »

Its a matter of faith, I don't believe there is a god It's as simple as that. I don't feel the need to obsess about it. Why would I? no amount of reading is going to change my mind or proof that I'm right.

You either believe in it or you dont. Why would you learn about something that
you dont believe is real.

Good, you're back. Interestingly obsessing about "the atheist obsession with religion". In answer to your bolded comment above (which has been answered a number of times already), I would like to ask you how on earth do you ever try to involve someone in a discussion where you are attempting to point out the (perceived, by you) error of their ways? Have you ever tried this? Usually, an attempt is made to try and see where the other person is coming from - the extent to which they hold a belief that they're in the right, their evidence for that belief, and often digging into the past where they came by that belief in the first place.

Take the religious patronage of schools, for example. I believe that I am RIGHT in thinking that the majority of National Schools in this country actively discriminate against people of no or other beliefs than the RCC. If I wish to point this out to people who think the status quo is fine and dandy, then I must debate the problem with them. In order to do that, I must be armed with EVIDENCE of how the patronage came about, how the constitution actually claims to treat all citizens equally and show how the continued religious patronage affects my children in their day to day school experience (to the detriment of my atheism). How am I going to be in any way effective in this argument if I have not researched the issue? Or any other issue where my life is affected due to my lack of religious belief?

If you can't answer this, you are not thinking hard enough tbh. You could be accused of the "I'm alright Jack, so everyone else should be too" syndrome, IMO.

Obliq

Seems Buzz has gone again. Why are we bothering? Remind me....:(

endacl

Buzz84 wrote: »

I always find it weird how some atheists are obsessed with religion.

They remind me of bitter x girlfriends

Hi. Sorry, I'm a little late this one. Before I get stuck in, is there any chance of a bit of clarification?

How exactly? I had water poured on me noggin as an infant, but we haven't been involved in years. My friends know we're not together any more. So does my family. Seems to me the RCC is the bitter ex. If I heard no more from her, that'd be grand, but you see, for some reason, she still thinks we're an item. We haven't spoken in years. I sometimes pass her on the street but I don't engage. How come I'm the 'bitter x'?!?

Are you a bit muxed ip?

Zombrex

Obliq wrote: »

Seems Buzz has gone again. Why are we bothering? Remind me....:(

I kinda guessed this guy was a troll. My reply was more for the regular posters who thanked his original post (ie some people obviously, and foolishly, think his OP was making a valid point about something)

Sarky

Obliq wrote: »

Seems Buzz has gone again. Why are we bothering? Remind me....:(

He'll be back.

Or some other ignoramus almost exactly like him.

Obliq

Zombrex wrote: »

I kinda guessed this guy was a troll. My reply was more for the regular posters who thanked his original post (ie some people obviously, and foolishly, think his OP was making a valid point about something)

Ah yes, those people. Thank you. I had Buzz figured as a first-timer to the question of "how is my equality affected by my atheism in this country?" and had him/her in my head at about 16 yrs old (no offence to other 16 yr olds who manage to think outside the box). Looks like a troll now that there's no debate alright.

Bannasidhe

Is this one over?

Cos I was thinking bitter = lemon = home made lemonade - lovely on a hot summers day...

Should I not bother making sugar syrup so?

I just encountered religion at my uncle's removal. It was fascinating watching people I know for a fact use contraception, been divorced, had an affair with a married man (and that's just my sister :P), etc etc all doing the Catlick shuffle while myself, son and nephew were 3 little atheists standing in a row being completely unstruck by any kind of divine lightening but on the receiving end of many human glares for not joining in.

It was a microcosm of Irish society 84% would call themselves catlicks and I bet the 3 little atheists know far more about their religion than any of those eagerly marching in the blessmefatherforIhavesinned brigade.

Obliq

SMALL bit of sugar syrup maybe. Sounds like you could do with the hit after your saccharine experience in church. I've just hit the spritzer myself. Dry and bubbly. It's a winning combination :pac:

Bannasidhe

Obliq wrote: »

SMALL bit of sugar syrup maybe. Sounds like you could do with the hit after your saccharine experience in church. I've just hit the spritzer myself. Dry and bubbly. It's a winning combination :pac:

Oh I didn't do the church bit. :eek: I only sit through that for people I really liked and tbh I didn't really know this uncle but apparently he was a good catlick - or so his mistresses and many many casual girlfriends say. Must be why he never did divorce his wife...

Tomorrow morning it's straight to the cemetery for me - actually does anyone know how long a funeral mass takes so I'm not found sitting on a grave reading my kindle (again)?

silentrust

All the Cathlicks with the pumped up kicks you better run, better run, outrun my gun... :-)

(For those people on the forum who can't take a f**** joke, that was one right there, it's known as a play on words. It's not a legitimate death threat as most serial killers don't announce their intentions via the medium of 80's pop.)

Buzz84

Bannasidhe wrote: »

Is this one over?

Cos I was thinking bitter = lemon = home made lemonade - lovely on a hot summers day...

Should I not bother making sugar syrup so?

I just encountered religion at my uncle's removal. It was fascinating watching people I know for a fact use contraception, been divorced, had an affair with a married man (and that's just my sister :P), etc etc all doing the Catlick shuffle while myself, son and nephew were 3 little atheists standing in a row being completely unstruck by any kind of divine lightening but on the receiving end of many human glares for not joining in.

It was a microcosm of Irish society 84% would call themselves catlicks and I bet the 3 little atheists know far more about their religion than any of those eagerly marching in the blessmefatherforIhavesinned brigade.

This is the exact smug ****e I'm on about. You think your better than religous folk. Who gives a **** as long as it doesn't bother you.

silentrust

Buzz84 wrote: »

Who gives a **** as long as it doesn't bother you.

That's the problem chief, it is bothering me - have you read the past posts or are you exemplifying your principle by simply ignoring reality?

Obliq

Sorry, no church then - removal is from the funeral parlour or home, yes? Around here (depending on popularity of person, as they can go on and on...) mass is about 3/4hr. Get someone to text you when the congregation goes shaking hands with the bereaved? Sorry for your loss tho Bann. Were you close?

Buzz84

Obliq wrote: »

Good, you're back. Interestingly obsessing about "the atheist obsession with religion". In answer to your bolded comment above (which has been answered a number of times already), I would like to ask you how on earth do you ever try to involve someone in a discussion where you are attempting to point out the (perceived, by you) error of their ways? Have you ever tried this? Usually, an attempt is made to try and see where the other person is coming from - the extent to which they hold a belief that they're in the right, their evidence for that belief, and often digging into the past where they came by that belief in the first place.

Take the religious patronage of schools, for example. I believe that I am RIGHT in thinking that the majority of National Schools in this country actively discriminate against people of no or other beliefs than the RCC. If I wish to point this out to people who think the status quo is fine and dandy, then I must debate the problem with them. In order to do that, I must be armed with EVIDENCE of how the patronage came about, how the constitution actually claims to treat all citizens equally and show how the continued religious patronage affects my children in their day to day school experience (to the detriment of my atheism). How am I going to be in any way effective in this argument if I have not researched the issue? Or any other issue where my life is affected due to my lack of religious belief?

If you can't answer this, you are not thinking hard enough tbh. You could be accused of the "I'm alright Jack, so everyone else should be too" syndrome, IMO.

Faith is a personal thing. Do you not get that? Its not like debating the origins of the crisis in the middle east,

The schools issue although far from perfect is being addressed .

pH

kylith wrote: »

I've gotten that a lot at family gatherings "You know an awful lot about religion, for an atheist". I've since learned that the correct answer is "Yes, I do. That's why I am an atheist". Though I'm thinking of altering it to "And you know incredibly little, for a Catholic".

It's a bit like walking into youth defense and saying "for a group who doesn't believe in abortion you do go on a bit about it," and genuinely feeling that you've devastated their raison d'etre in a very self satisfying and smug way.

Buzz84 wrote:

Faith is a personal thing. Do you not get that?

Yea - Catholicism and Islam for example are very "personal" faiths for sure, it's hard to even detect their presence in societies for sure.

Zombrex

Buzz84 wrote: »

This is the exact smug ****e I'm on about. You think your better than religous folk. Who gives a **** as long as it doesn't bother you.

You claim others are smug but you come onto a forum, ask a question and then completely ignore the posters who bother to actually answer you.

It sounds like you though you were making some point about atheist being unjustifiably bitter and now you just want to ignore the responses that point out the flaw in that point.

Is there anything more "smug" than thinking you are making a point with a clearly rhetorical question and then ignoring all the replies that point out the flaw in your thinking.

Well perhaps being that smug and then complaining that others are being smug by simply pointing out the flaw in your reasoning.

Pot ... kettle ... glass houses and all that jazz.

A for effort though

Obliq

silentrust wrote: »

All the Cathlicks with the pumped up kicks you better run, better run, outrun my gun... :-)
[/SIZE]

I have "you better run to the city of refuge" in my head now. Ta.

Could be worse tho....;) Nick Cave. Still sexy

silentrust

Zombrex wrote: »

You claim others are smug but you come onto a forum, ask a question and then completely ignore the posters who bother to actually answer you.

It sounds like you though you were making some point about atheist being unjustifiably bitter and now you just want to ignore the responses that point out the flaw in that point.

Is there anything more "smug" than thinking you are making a point with a clearly rhetorical question and then ignoring all the replies that point out the flaw in your thinking.

Well perhaps being that smug and then complaining that others are being smug by simply pointing out the flaw in your reasoning.

Pot ... kettle ... glass houses and all that jazz.

A for effort though

Well as I said in fairness he's being entirely consistent in making sure he knows absolutely nothing about the other side's position.

Buzz84

Corkfeen wrote: »

I'm not sure it would be a major topic in Ireland if it weren't for the considerable influence which Catholicism has over the running of the state. You appear to have ignored the other posters that have pointed to this.

If you glance over what is discussed on this forum, it goes far further than simply discussing if god exists or not. There a discussion on gay marriage, assisted suicide and abortion on the first page alone. So you clearly have done very little reading on this forum.

True but you can still be against all of them and be an atheist?

Zombrex

Buzz84 wrote: »

Faith is a personal thing. Do you not get that? Its not like debating the debating the origins of the crisis in the middle east,

The schools issue although far from perfect is being addressed .

Faith is a personal thing, here are two examples of how faith is not a personal thing.

Bravo Einstein. :rolleyes:

Bannasidhe

Buzz84 wrote: »

This is the exact smug ****e I'm on about. You think your better than religous folk. Who gives a **** as long as it doesn't bother you.

I'm not only smug, I'm also female and queer - wanna hear what the religious folks have to say about me?
You try turning on the news, read a newspaper or have a looksee at the big Gay mega thread over in the Xian form and see yourself being called an abomination, threat to humanity and told that your body is not yours to control and see if it bothers you matey. :mad: