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Irish woman raped in India

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,207 ✭✭✭The King of Moo


    DenMan wrote: »
    Poor woman. I'm so angry! India and its backward patriarchal society should be made to pay for its evil and heinous crimes! :mad:

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/indian-police-investigating-rape-of-irish-woman-make-an-arrest-596453.html

    What happened to the woman is terrible, and India has a lot of troubles to sort out, but I don't see why one specific case involving an Irish person should be the catalyst for this change, and it may not be fair to blame India's larger problems for this one particular case.

    The police have made an arrest, and hopefully justice will be served and the victim recovers as well as she can.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,440 ✭✭✭The Aussie


    Not again.

    India Rape Thread #12 (not being funny at all at all))


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    DenMan wrote:
    irish woman ALLEGEDLY raped in india

    fixed that for you


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭Thomas20


    DenMan wrote: »
    I'm so angry! India and its backward patriarchal society should be made to pay for its evil and heinous crimes! :mad:
    :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
    Smash the paytreearkeeeee!!11!!!!!1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭DenMan


    What happened to the woman is terrible, and India has a lot of troubles to sort out, but I don't see why one specific case involving an Irish person should be the catalyst for this change, and it may not be fair to blame India's larger problems for this one particular case.

    The police have made an arrest, and hopefully justice will be served and the victim recovers as well as she can.

    If continuous case by cases are ignored then change will never happen! With so much corruption in the Indian police then without outside interference this will unfortunately continue to happen!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    What happened to the woman is terrible, and India has a lot of troubles to sort out, but I don't see why one specific case involving an Irish person should be the catalyst for this change, and it may not be fair to blame India's larger problems for this one particular case.

    The police have made an arrest, and hopefully justice will be served and the victim recovers as well as she can.

    It could be possible, but I doubt it. What happened to an Indian woman was a catalyst for change here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,476 ✭✭✭Riddle101


    DenMan wrote: »
    Poor woman. I'm so angry! India and its backward patriarchal society should be made to pay for its evil and heinous crimes! :mad:

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/indian-police-investigating-rape-of-irish-woman-make-an-arrest-596453.html

    That's a bit harsh. That would be like saying all of Ireland should pay for what the IRA did. India is no different to any country IMO. You can get raped anywhere.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    DenMan wrote: »
    Poor woman. I'm so angry! India and its backward patriarchal society should be made to pay for its evil and heinous crimes! :mad:

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/indian-police-investigating-rape-of-irish-woman-make-an-arrest-596453.html

    Made to pay? a whole billion people?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,177 ✭✭✭DenMan


    Made to pay? a whole billion people?

    No just the Government and how the country is ran!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    DenMan wrote: »
    No just the Government and how the country is ran!

    Oh right, that's much more sensible then.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    Boombastic wrote: »
    It could be possible, but I doubt it. What happened to an Indian woman was a catalyst for change here.


    Not wishing to be smart Boom but absolutely nothing has changed. People said the same when the X case happened that it would be the catalyst for "change", and that was over 20 years ago.

    All that will happen in this case is yet again political platitudes will be given, a few column inches will be filled in newspapers, Facebook "campaigns" will kick off for a bit, and by next month there'll be something else happening somewhere else in the world to distract the righteous from having to acknowledge half the problems happening on their own doorstep.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭Killer Wench


    Reading this article, I have the impression that this was possibly a date rape whereas the other stories involved gang rape then physical mutilation. Rape is an egregious crime regardless if it is committed by a friend, husband, co-worker or a gang of strangers, but there is something about the mutilation committed against the women that truly leaves me enraged.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    A horrible thing to happen to anyone but Jesus Christ when are foreign women going to learn to stay the Hell out of that sh*thole country. Did the she not hear about the rape epidemic in India? What the Hell was she thinking going off with him?

    Before anyone suggests otherwise, I am not for one moment saying that she deserved it. I just don't get the stupidity of it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 88 ✭✭mcwinning


    Poor girl, rape is awful enough without being 1000s of miles away from home/family support.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    Most female travellers i know who been to India describe it as very safe, compared to say.....Ireland.


    bit OTT response OP


    . As societal change, 'bout 100-150 years i reckon, but that really has nothing to do with rape per se. By that logic, 'liberated' first world countries should be rape free. Which they aint.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,370 ✭✭✭✭Son Of A Vidic


    DenMan wrote: »
    No just the Government and how the country is ran!

    Never mind focusing on India. We might be better served, applying the same approach to the clowns running our own country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭St.Spodo


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    Not wishing to be smart Boom but absolutely nothing has changed. People said the same when the X case happened that it would be the catalyst for "change", and that was over 20 years ago.

    All that will happen in this case is yet again political platitudes will be given, a few column inches will be filled in newspapers, Facebook "campaigns" will kick off for a bit, and by next month there'll be something else happening somewhere else in the world to distract the righteous from having to acknowledge half the problems happening on their own doorstep.

    I don't agree with this. Legislation is imminent, which is something. More importantly, though, it raised people's levels of consciousness; people are thinking about it and are proud to be pro-choice on this issue. As heartbreaking and tragic as Savita's death was, I think it will be seen as a catalyst in years to come. I hope I'm right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,220 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I read somewhere female tourism to India is down 25% since the bus rape of that unfortunate woman.

    Edit, 35% - link http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/01/17553769-female-tourists-shun-india-after-gang-rape-murder?lite


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    I wonder will this get as much coverage in India as the case of the unfortunate Savita Halappanavar, where Ireland was cast as a land of savages?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,589 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Anynama141 wrote: »
    I wonder will this get as much coverage in India as the case of the unfortunate Savita Halappanavar, where Ireland was cast as a land of savages?

    Why does it matter? Both cases are disgusting - they don't need to be compared.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    o1s1n wrote: »
    Why does it matter? Both cases are disgusting - they don't need to be compared.
    Who is comparing? I'm just wondering if the papers in India will give this story any coverage. I'm rather resentful of the tone they took when reporting Savita's case, as if everyone in Ireland wasn't horrified by it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    St.Spodo wrote: »
    I don't agree with this. Legislation is imminent, which is something. More importantly, though, it raised people's levels of consciousness; people are thinking about it and are proud to be pro-choice on this issue. As heartbreaking and tragic as Savita's death was, I think it will be seen as a catalyst in years to come. I hope I'm right.


    St.Spodo I'd love to say you were right, but legislation has been "imminent" we were told since the X case 20 years ago, and many high profile cases since then. People have been conscious that politicians have played political football with the issue for the last 20 years, people have been aware, and have been calling for change for the last 20 years, and each time the government of the day says "soon now, we'll legislate soon, when you vote us into government", and each time the people have fallen for it.

    In saying that, what happened in this case in India is no reflection of Indian culture any more than one case of rape in Ireland is a reflection of Irish culture.

    Even as I write this right now, chances are there are numerous rapes happening in Ireland that will never be highlighted in the media.

    Does anyone honestly think reporting single incidents like this on the international stage will change the attitudes and culture of a country of seven million people, let alone the attitudes and culture of a country of one seventh of the world's population!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,779 ✭✭✭up for anything


    A horrible thing to happen to anyone but Jesus Christ when are foreign women going to learn to stay the Hell out of that sh*thole country. Did the she not hear about the rape epidemic in India? What the Hell was she thinking going off with him?

    Before anyone suggests otherwise, I am not for one moment saying that she deserved it. I just don't get the stupidity of it.

    You might not be saying that she deserved it but in three sentences in your post you have apportioned blame/stupidity to her.

    You don't know the details surrounding the rape. Maybe he was someone she worked with and trusted and therefore didn't see any danger in going to his house. He was most likely a wolf in sheep's clothing. Judging by their disparate ages I doubt they were dating/on a date, more probably a work night out. She probably wouldn't have thought twice about it. [/conjecture]


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 93,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Made to pay? a whole billion people?
    even if it's only a rupee each it still adds up


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    A horrible thing to happen to anyone but Jesus Christ when are foreign women going to learn to stay the Hell out of that sh*thole country. Did the she not hear about the rape epidemic in India? What the Hell was she thinking going off with him?

    Before anyone suggests otherwise, I am not for one moment saying that she deserved it. I just don't get the stupidity of it.

    So you're not saying she deserved it, but you are saying she was stupid to go to India and that she should have expected to get raped...,, that's pretty standard victim blaming right there


  • Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We have had horrible things happen to tourists in this country too. That young girl Manuela Riedo , Sophie Tuscan Du Plantier.

    Hope the girl in question gets some support, being so far from home.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    A horrible thing to happen to anyone but Jesus Christ when are foreign women going to learn to stay the Hell out of that sh*thole country. Did the she not hear about the rape epidemic in India? What the Hell was she thinking going off with him?

    Before anyone suggests otherwise, I am not for one moment saying that she deserved it. I just don't get the stupidity of it.

    wow, normally its what clothes you wear, or how much you drank. Now if you visit a country it is somehow your fault. That's a new one. You don't get the stupidity of it? Whose stupidity exactly? The rapist's?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    Jake1 wrote: »
    We have had horrible things happen to tourists in this country too. That young girl Manuela Riedo , Sophie Tuscan Du Plantier.

    Hope the girl in question gets some support, being so far from home.

    I will now take one for the team and make the obligatory and not at all unexepected point that there is a fair amount of xenophobia in this thread...

    *ducks*

    Edit: Xenophobia's probably more accurate than racism. Also ignorance of the facts and random conjecture. And of course the obligatory victim blaming.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 365 ✭✭Israeli Superiority


    My ma and I were thinking of going there after Christmas. I think I'll leave her behind because I'm staying there for a few months and she'll have to make her way back to Ireland alone.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    wow, normally its what clothes you wear, or how much you drank. Now if you visit a country it is somehow your fault. That's a new one. You don't get the stupidity of it? Whose stupidity exactly? The rapist's?
    I agree with you, but I can see the point he's making even if I disagree with it.

    I you leave your windows open when you go on holiday, it doesn't mean it's suddenly ok to rob your house. But it's smarter to close the windows.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 249 ✭✭imtdub


    Anynama141 wrote: »
    I wonder will this get as much coverage in India as the case of the unfortunate Savita Halappanavar, where Ireland was cast as a land of savages?

    It has been reported in Times of India 24 hrs ago....

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata/Irish-woman-alleges-rape-after-party-in-Kolkata/articleshow/20401577.cms


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,689 ✭✭✭Karl Stein


    What the Hell was she thinking going off with him?

    That he was a normal non-rapist person?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    Anynama141 wrote: »
    I agree with you, but I can see the point he's making even if I disagree with it.

    I you leave your windows open when you go on holiday, it doesn't mean it's suddenly ok to rob your house. But it's smarter to close the windows.

    Oh here we go again
    Rape =/= burglary
    Rape is a crime against the person. It has more in common with say ABH or GBH.
    So now. If you are alone in a room with a man and he suddenly decides to batter the everlivin sh1te out of you, with absolutely no provocation, whose fault is that?
    Is it your fault for visiting a foreign country?
    Is it your fault for wearing whatever you were wearing?
    Is it your fault for being alone in a room with him?
    Or is it his fault for suddenly battering you?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    That he was a normal non-rapist person?

    She obviously missed all the obvious clues like the dirty mac and the wild-eyed look and all that. Cause we should all be able to spot a rapist at fifty paces amirite


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,705 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    Boombastic wrote: »
    It could be possible, but I doubt it. What happened to an Indian woman was a catalyst for change here.
    Nothing in the proposed legislation would change what happen to her


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    Apparently his lawyer is arguing that he couldn't have done it because he wasn't drunk
    That's a new one on me


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    starling wrote: »
    Oh here we go again
    Rape =/= burglary
    Rape is a crime against the person. It has more in common with say ABH or GBH.
    So now. If you are alone in a room with a man and he suddenly decides to batter the everlivin sh1te out of you, with absolutely no provocation, whose fault is that?
    Is it your fault for visiting a foreign country?
    Is it your fault for wearing whatever you were wearing?
    Is it your fault for being alone in a room with him?
    Or is it his fault for suddenly battering you?
    Starling, please stop making fatuous comparisons between rape and burglary. It really diminishes the seriousness of the crime.

    Either that, or you desperately need to learn some logic.

    Would you understand the comparison better if I said that if you walk through the middle of a bar fight, it's not suddenly ok for someone to punch you, but you'd be smarter to walk around it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 518 ✭✭✭otto_26


    Never mind focusing on India. We might be better served, applying the same approach to the clowns running our own country.

    Or more importantly the clowns that voted them into power.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Anynama141 wrote: »
    Starling, please stop making fatuous comparisons between rape and burglary. It really diminishes the seriousness of the crime.

    That is the opposite of what she was doing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭daingeanrob


    hope she gets the support she NEEDS, so far from home in a foreign country/system. i also hope her family don't see this thread.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    Candie wrote: »
    That is the opposite of what she was doing.
    It appears that she was trying to pretend that I was comparing the crimes, or else her reading comprehension is so poor that that is what she took from the post.

    I was returning the favour.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭starling


    hope she gets the support she NEEDS, so far from home in a foreign country/system. i also hope her family don't see this thread.

    Yeah. I'd be fcukin disgusted. No wait I'm already disgusted.

    On the off chance that anyone is actually interested in the facts of this case, she was unconscious when he had sex with her. Allegedly, we don't know.
    I feel like giving my thumbs RSI for sone reason so I'm just going to restate two basic facts here;

    If you have sex with an unconscious person, you are committing rape.
    If a rape is committed the person at fault is the rapist and no-one else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kraggy


    There's been another alleged rape. This time an American woman.

    http://www.independent.ie/world-news/tourist-raped-in-indian-resort-town-29319425.html

    Will there be an end to this at all? Or is it just that modern day communications/Internet have meant that we are simply hearing more of these incidents but that the number happening has not increased at all?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    starling wrote: »
    If you have sex with an unconscious person, you are committing rape.
    If a rape is committed the person at fault is the rapist and no-one else.
    Agreed. And if someone robs your house or punches you or shoots you, the person at fault is the person who does it and no-one else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    People can attack my previous post as much as they like, it doesn't change the fact that India is a sh*thole, notorious for sex crimes against women. Any woman who goes off alone in India, especially with a man she doesn't know, is taking a huge risk. As I said earlier I'm not saying she deserved it.

    Basic common sense should prevail, India is just 1 country known to have very odd ideas about women and as such it is down to women to be particularly careful when travelling in that kind of country. She's extremely fortunate not to have been gang raped and murdered.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    DenMan wrote: »
    No just the Government and how the country is ran!

    And that will stop the act of rape, will it? Astounding.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,076 ✭✭✭✭Czarcasm


    People can attack my previous post as much as they like, it doesn't change the fact that India is a sh*thole, notorious for sex crimes against women. Any woman who goes off alone in India, especially with a man she doesn't know, is taking a huge risk. As I said earlier I'm not saying she deserved it.

    Basic common sense should prevail, India is just 1 country known to have very odd ideas about women and as such it is down to women to be particularly careful when travelling in that kind of country. She's extremely fortunate not to have been gang raped and murdered.


    I think though in fairness Pumpkinseeds you could apply the above to any country in the world. There was a case in Limerick only a few years back when a couple were attacked and the man's girlfriend was gang raped while the boyfriend was made to witness it happen but powerless to stop them.

    As I also said in a previous post, there are men, women and children right now in Ireland being raped and tortured and these cases will probably never be reported to the authorities, let alone be reported on the international media stage, so to suggest it's more prevalent in India because of their attitude towards women, I think that's more a misguided perception based on your lack of experience rather than any actual facts to back up your assertions.

    And no, even applying common sense to oneself doesn't minimize or reduce the risk of someone else failing to apply common sense before they commit rape.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 49 mangochavez


    Candie wrote: »
    Cop yourself on.

    Seriously though, what can *realistically* be done to prevent rape, further than that which is already in place? Lust and theft are both unfortunate facts of life, and as long as the two things exist, there will always be rape in every society.

    Many people seem to naively demand a perfect world, without taking into consideration the deeper facts of existence; that suffering will always manifest in a multitude of ways across the board. All that can realistically be done in terms of prevention is already being done, and what's best is simply that women take precautions against being victimized, just as we all do when we buy burglar alarms or locks for our back doors.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Seriously though, what can *realistically* be done to prevent rape, further than that which is already in place? Lust and theft are both unfortunate facts of life, and as long as the two things exist, there will always be rape in every society.

    Many people seem to naively demand a perfect world, without taking into consideration the deeper facts of existence; that suffering will always manifest in a multitude of ways across the board. All that can realistically be done in terms of prevention is already being done, and what's best is simply that women take precautions against being victimized, just as we all do when we buy burglar alarms or locks for our back doors.

    The deeper facts of our existence is that we only have agency over ourselves. So rapists can choose not to rape, trolls not to troll, and women not to listen when they are expected to police the violent actions of some men by treating all men with suspicion.

    Equally we can choose to absolve ourselves of responsibility for our acts by deciding that's just the way it is, that other people must take action to prevent us acting on our baser instincts, and if they don't they are to blame for what we do, and that anyone who disagrees with this course is lacking insight, or naive. What a wonderful world it would be if we can act with the impunity that divesting ourselves of blame allows us.

    Stupid argument.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Czarcasm wrote: »
    I think though in fairness Pumpkinseeds you could apply the above to any country in the world. There was a case in Limerick only a few years back when a couple were attacked and the man's girlfriend was gang raped while the boyfriend was made to witness it happen but powerless to stop them.

    As I also said in a previous post, there are men, women and children right now in Ireland being raped and tortured and these cases will probably never be reported to the authorities, let alone be reported on the international media stage, so to suggest it's more prevalent in India because of their attitude towards women, I think that's more a misguided perception based on your lack of experience rather than any actual facts to back up your assertions.

    And no, even applying common sense to oneself doesn't minimize or reduce the risk of someone else failing to apply common sense before they commit rape.
    I recall that rape case in Limerick, Cratloe woods as far as I remember. I'm well aware that rape and sexual abuse takes place in Ireland. I think people need a bit of common sense as I said earlier. Going off to the woods at night wasn't a smart thing to do either. There is never any justification for rape, under any circumstances. Adults need to take some personal responsibility for their own safety. As children my parents drilled the need to keep ourselves safe in to us. The most basic of which was don't go off with strangers.

    As for personal experience I'm not sure what you mean by that. India is a sinkhole, with children scavaging rubbish heaps in order to stay alive, rivers teeming with excrement and incidents of rape of women and children are sky high. It's not a safe country particularly for women. Limerick and the rest of Ireland doesn't have gangs of rapists scouring their vicinity for women to rape. I'm not likely to encounter a bus driver here, travelling his route with his mates looking for a woman to rape on the bus.

    India is not a safe place for women so I'm not sure why you want to portray it as being as safe as any other country. That in my opinion is misguided and naive.


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