22 year old, insuring an Evo 7, Quick question

CiniO

djimi wrote: »

You would want to have your head examined if you owned a car like an Evo and didnt have it insured against theft.

If cost of insuring it would be half the price of the car - then it's surely not worth it.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

This is on the money.

Insurers ask "will you be the main driver?". A deliberate lie here will jeopardise cover.

Sorry but where would OP be asked this question?
He said he want to insure micra and drive EVO registered on his father's name on his third party extension.

Where would the "who will be the main driver of EVO" question be asked?

In the case of a young lad driving an Evo on 3rd party extension and a resulting claim you can be absolutely sure they'll investigate.

If the claim is rejected the MIBI will step in, they'll try to recover the amount from the driver, and the driver will find it difficult/expensive/impossible to get cover again.

They investigate what? That he was the main driver of the EVO?
Who and where said he couldn't be?

goz83

.jacksparrow. wrote: »

Let's be honest lads, the op isn't thinkin about what happens if he is in a crash, its just to make sure he isn't doing anything illegal. I say if you can pull it off, once its legal go for it and fair play for thinking of it.

The evo does not need to be insured at all. It simply needs to be in someone elses name, but OP, it's a bad idea. You say you won't be rallying it around the countryside, which is probably true, but you sure as hell won't be driving Miss Daisy either. It's this kind of abuse that will close up a loop-hole for everyone else, making our already draconian insurance system even more repressive.

goz83

CiniO wrote: »

Where would the "who will be the main driver of EVO" question be asked?

I think this is the question the father would have to answer if he was insuring the Evo. So if he was not to be the main driver, he would be lying to the insurer.

Technoprisoner

honestly...just buy the car and tell them you already have the car...i think they have to insure you....did you ring them already for a qoute?

Henry Ford III

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry but where would OP be asked this question?
He said he want to insure micra and drive EVO registered on his father's name on his third party extension.

Where would the "who will be the main driver of EVO" question be asked?



They investigate what? That he was the main driver of the EVO?
Who and where said he couldn't be?

The insurance proposal (his fathers). If the father confirmed he'd be the main driver, knowing at the get go that it's incorrect, the true nature of the risk would be undisclosed, and the cover voidable potentially.

You can be full sure that any insurer would investgate such a claim too, as it'd be a very clear case of non disclosure.

Henry Ford III

Technoprisoner wrote: »

honestly...just buy the car and tell them you already have the car...i think they have to insure you....did you ring them already for a qoute?

I beleive they have no obligation, and even if they did they could charge a small fortune in line with the increased risk.

CiniO

Henry Ford III wrote: »

The insurance proposal (his fathers). If the father confirmed he'd be the main driver, knowing at the get go that it's incorrect, the true nature of the risk would be undisclosed, and the cover voidable potentially.

You can be full sure that any insurer would investgate such a claim too, as it'd be a very clear case of non disclosure.

But OP is not trying to get as named driver on his father's policy.
He wants to drive the EVO using his own "driving other cars" extension on his policy.
His father's policy seems to be completely irrelevant here, whether it's valid or not.

SpannerMonkey

generally the policy excludes what they class as performance cars so look it up first , secondly as far as i know all these policices require you to be over 25

try britton insurance in donegal they specialise in high powered cars and young drivers;)

Technoprisoner

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I beleive they have no obligation, and even if they did they could charge a small fortune in line with the increased risk.

i got insured on my first evo that way...i rang them up told them what it was...they told me that they could not insure me on that car...i told them i had bought it and it was outside they came back 2 minutes later saying 500 extra..i was over the moon

Henry Ford III

Technoprisoner wrote: »

i got insured on my first evo that way...i rang them up told them what it was...they told me that they could not insure me on that car...i told them i had bought it and it was outside they came back 2 minutes later saying 500 extra..i was over the moon

Risky.

What would you have done had they said €3000 extra?

challengemaster

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

generally the policy excludes what they class as performance cars so look it up first , secondly as far as i know all these policices require you to be over 25

I'd love to know where people keep pulling these "facts" out of. I've yet to see a policy stipulate for third party extension the driver needs to be a certain age, and certainly haven't seen anything about the types of car covered.

This is quoted from liberty's website on driving other cars.

If your certificate of insurance says so, we will also cover the policyholder for your liability to other people while you are driving any other private motor car which you do not own or have not hired or leased. This benefit applies to full licence drivers only. We will only cover you if:

• The vehicle is not owned by your employer or hired to you/them under a hire-purchase or lease agreement;
• You currently hold a full European Union (EU) licence;
• The use of the vehicle is covered in the certificate of insurance;
• Cover is not provided by any other insurance;
• You have the owner’s permission to drive the vehicle;
• The vehicle is in a roadworthy condition;
• You still have your vehicle and it has not been damaged beyond cost-effective repair; and
• Your occupation is not restricted by our acceptance criteria.

Usually open-drive does specify a minimum age, and other stipulations, but that's not whats being asked about.

SpannerMonkey

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Risky.

What would you have done had they said €3000 extra?

happened me aswell i bought a bmw 330i when i was 21 , was with quinndirect at the time their online thing said no problem to insurance (cost a bit more but not stupid) so i went away and bought the car .

when i rang them up they said oh no you have to be over 30 , i said sorry no your online site said i could get insured for 300 more, they said oh no sir


when i checked an hour later on their site it said it was uninsureable for me , i rang them up and the conceded but wanted an additional 1500 euro :mad:




luckily i had a print out of the earlier quote and i faxed it in to them with the referance number and they begrudgeingly accepted it .

SpannerMonkey

challengemaster wrote: »

I'd love to know where people keep pulling these "facts" out of. I've yet to see a policy stipulate for third party extension the driver needs to be a certain age, and certainly haven't seen anything about the types of car covered.

This is quoted from liberty's website on driving other cars.



Usually open-drive does specify a minimum age, and other stipulations, but that's not whats being asked about.

well my good man it was on my policy when i was younger because it stopped me at the time. was with quinn direct . FACT


EDIT : sorry i was talking about open drive , you picked me up wrong

Nino Brown

goz83 wrote: »

The evo does not need to be insured at all. It simply needs to be in someone elses name, but OP, it's a bad idea. You say you won't be rallying it around the countryside, which is probably true, but you sure as hell won't be driving Miss Daisy either. It's this kind of abuse that will close up a loop-hole for everyone else, making our already draconian insurance system even more repressive.

The Evo will have to be insured. Even if you have permission to drive other cars, they have to be insured by their owner also.

shaned175

Ya I had thought about the whole being over 25 thing for open drive...... For my current insurer, FBD, that is the case, ..
However when I rang up Liberty insurance they assured me that all there customers, regardless of age, have DOC extension, ...
the only problem is that they wouldnt insure me at the time on a 2.0 straight diesel carina.... quite possibly the slowest car on the planet....
But they told me if I came back with something less than a 1.3 then they would.....

Ive seen some people say that the Evo dosnt have to be insured... just taxed, nct'd and to be in someones name..........If this is the case. would this not mean that my father dosnt have to lie to any insurance companies... as there would be no insurance company involved??? just an after thought

Nino Brown

OP have you got the quote for an Evo in your fathers name with yourself as a named driver? I thought insurers based their quotes on the highest risk driver on the policy. So by the time you pay to keep both cars on the road insured/NCT'd and taxed you might be better off just sucking it up and going with XS direct or someone similar.

shaned175

Nino Brown wrote: »

OP have you got the quote for an Evo in your fathers name with yourself as a named driver? I thought insurers based their quotes on the highest risk driver on the policy. So by the time you pay to keep both cars on the road insured/NCT'd and taxed you might be better off just sucking it up and going with XS direct or someone similar.

No i didnt even bother.. i floated the idea with a woman behind the counter at an fbd office and she started laughing

The idea would be that my name would be nowhere the EVO as regards insurance......... however.... if there is an insurance company, such as XS or that other one donegal.... it might cost alot.. but save alot trouble... alot to consider

mgbgt1978

ironclaw wrote: »

Generally, the 'drive other cars' clause is 25+ and less than 1.6.

No it isn't....on both counts.
Some Insurers will give the 'driving other cars' to anybody who takes out a policy with them...some don't. Some will automatically give it to persons over 25...some won't. Some don't offer it at all.
But it is far from "Generally".
If you can show me more than 1 Insurer (if there is even 1) who will only cover up to 1.6 on the 'driving other cars' clause I will be very impressed.

mgbgt1978

Nino Brown wrote: »

The Evo will have to be insured. Even if you have permission to drive other cars, they have to be insured by their owner also.

Not again.....No they don't. It all depends on the insurer, but most do not ask that the car be insured by the owner.
This has been done to death on here.

Nino Brown

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Not again.....No they don't. It all depends on the insurer, but most do not ask that the car be insured by the owner.
This has been done to death on here.

You're right, I stand corrected, liberty don't require Insurance, just tax and NCT.

carzony

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

No it isn't....on both counts.
Some Insurers will give the 'driving other cars' to anybody who takes out a policy with them...some don't. Some will automatically give it to persons over 25...some won't. Some don't offer it at all.
But it is far from "Generally".
If you can show me more than 1 Insurer (if there is even 1) who will only cover up to 1.6 on the 'driving other cars' clause I will be very impressed.

Well I just got insured the other day and Asgard told me that anyone 21 or over automatically gets 'drive other cars' added to the policy. I never asked them if there was a limit on the litre of the engine size mind

Nino Brown

shaned175 wrote: »

No i didnt even bother.. i floated the idea with a woman behind the counter at an fbd office and she started laughing

The idea would be that my name would be nowhere the EVO as regards insurance......... however.... if there is an insurance company, such as XS or that other one donegal.... it might cost alot.. but save alot trouble... alot to consider

Yeah doing it right would be a lot less hassle, but to be honest I don't see any legal reason why you couldn't go the other way. And your father wouldn't really be lying either. If he insures a car, in his name, with his insurance company he hasn't done anything wrong, and that insurance company is basically getting free money, so it's all gravy on his end.
You're the one bending the rules a bit with your own insurance company, that doesn't involve your father in any way. Just don't crash the F'ing thing. or you'll be up against a group of people who's job it is to prevent payouts, they're good at that job, and you'll have given them ammo.
Make sure you use different companies too!

msg11

Nino Brown wrote: »

You're right, I stand corrected, liberty don't require Insurance, just tax and NCT.

Yeah weird one alright. Just needs to be Taxed and NCT'ed. You could get a fine for failing to display a valid insurance disk but.

Best policy to do in this situation is to insure the Evo out right in your name. If you crash that car chances are it is not going to be a few 100 to put right. Don't give the insurance company a reason to refuse to pay out.

I have an Evo, just transferred the insurance over. They can't give you any quote it must be reasonable as not to directly imply that they would not insure the car.

If you feel the quote is not reasonable get onto the insurance ombudsman and they will help you out. It's a legal requirement that a motor vehicle in Ireland must be insured. There are steps the insurance ombudsman will take with you to get you cover, which is basically getting three letters of refusal and the ombudsman will force one of the companies to give you a reasonable quote.

With Liberty insurance I was 22, Full license, 3 years NCB and got a quote of 1200 so work from there. Car was an Evolution 4.

Just to say also, have a bit of common sense with the driving of other cars. Insuring a 1.0 liter car and driving a 2.2 BMW on third party it's not illegal if the rules don't say it but the insurance company will give you hassle providing cover in the event of a claim, they will look for any reason to wash there hands of it. My rule of thumb has always been, if the insured car is 2.0 then I will drive a car up till 2.0 .

mgbgt1978

shaned175 wrote: »

Ive seen some people say that the Evo dosnt have to be insured... just taxed, nct'd and to be in someones name..........If this is the case. would this not mean that my father dosnt have to lie to any insurance companies... as there would be no insurance company involved??? just an after thought

What you say is true. However...............
The problem here is that you can be done for non-display of an insurance disc...also 'technically' you are required to list the insurer and policy number when taxing the car (this would have to be the policy in force on the car, not your policy as that would not have the car's reg number on it).

Some Guards will tell you that you are not insured on the car, as it is not insured by the owner This does not mean that they are correct but it can mess up your day;).

Technoprisoner

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Risky.

What would you have done had they said €3000 extra?

because quinn were notorious for refusing to insure evos but a few i had met had done it this way and it worked

mgbgt1978

msg11 wrote: »

It's a legal requirement that a motor vehicle in Ireland must be insured.

Not quite, it is a legal requirement in Ireland to have motor insurance if you want to drive a car in a public place.
In other words, the driver must be insured, not the car.

Henry Ford III

We can argue about this all night but the basis of the issue won't change.

A young driver who is ordinarily unable to legally drive a high performance car wants to use a minor extension to an otherwise normal motor policy to do so.

Whilst on the face of it the 3rd party extension appears to offer cover, the primary aim of insurance is not for compliance (although it's mandatory) but to provide an ability to compensate for damages in the event of a claim.

Let's consider the facts as we have them, and three possible outcomes:

1/. No claim. All appears in order.

2/. Vehicle stolen/burned. Total loss with no cover.

3/. 3rd party claim. Insurer of Micra are informed that young driver has crashed causing property damage and/or personal injuries. They are informed the claim is as a result of the 3rd party extension and the driver was at the wheel of an Evo. They'll be sure to investigate. They'll find out who's name the Evo is reg'd in, and how and when and by whom it was purchased. If their understandable suspicions are confirmed (The Evo was the young drivers car, was driven by him normally, and that the Micra was only a front inorder to deceive) they'll do their utmost to repudiate liabilty.

The important thing here is a case like this could easily end up in court and great efforts would be made to avoid liability on the grounds that the entire scheme was essentially designed to obtain insurance by deception.

dgt

Er I seem to be missing some of this arguement above...!

An absolute anus I went to school with got insured on an EVO 7 at 19 for about 5 grand as himself (memory serving me correctly) if that's any use to the OP

OldmanMondeo

I done something similar on my first car, the car was mine, insured by my Dad, who drove another car, that didn't have tax or insurance. I was legal, at the time, that was around 1994 for about 6 months. worked well until I got my licence and hit the 25 mark.