NZ v France series thread

BoarHunter

Swiwi wrote: »

I hate to say it, but NZ are poor losers at times. If France are leading, I expect a few idiots in the crowd will be firing up. I don't actually mind him too much as a ref, but I do think he somewhat freezes around reffing the tackle ball/ruck area in big matches.

I'd rather Barnes than Clancey or Poite.

Or Joubert :-D

Swiwi

BoarHunter wrote: »

Or Joubert :-D

I'm no Joubert fan. His reffing has gone backwards, starting with the RWC final. I've said it before, I'll take Nigel Owens from the NH, also your own Jérôme Garcès is OK, and Glen Jackson from the SH, I also like the SA ref Jaco Peyper.

Look, I was happy to win the RWC - of course - and it would have been a travesty if France won, given your form in the pool stages, and your easy run to the final, but Joubert did somewhat do a Barnes in terms of freezing in the 2nd half.

Good luck for Saturday BTW!, traditionally NZ start the season slowly, so you have a good chance, even if it is Fortress Eden as the venue.

Swiwi

Rugbyheaven NZ previews 3 key match-ups

Sam Cane v Thierry Dusautoir

The All Blacks young openside faces the most stern test of his brief international career. Dusautoir may be 31, but the Dark Destroyer is far from finished and refreshed after an injury break.

The Toulouse tackling machine also has a knack of producing his best rugby against the All Blacks and is part of a strong loose trio including the pace of blindside Fulgence Ouedraogo and the strength of No 8 Louis Picamoles.

Cane has been unconvincing through Super Rugby and now needs to prove he is Richie McCaw's obvious successor. A quick, open game would suit Cane's style with support play one of his strengths.

Aaron Cruden v Camille Lopez

Cruden is maturing into a fine player and with front foot ball the Chiefs pivot's running game is his strength. He can skirt wide and exploit opponent's outside backs, shoot through on the inside and off load in contact.

He faces a young man on the rise in Lopez, who has sparkled this season for Bordeaux. The 24-year-old's great strength is his cultured left boot. Not only can he kick goals prolifically, but Lopez's accuracy with high, chip and cross kicks is exceptional.

He can run a bit too and at 98kg has the strength to bust tackles when he wants to. His performance against Toulon this season was nothing short of incredible.

Ma'a Nonu v Wesley Fofana

If there is one player in the French side capable of tearing teams to shred it is the Clermont second five eighth. Known in France as 'Le Guépard' (The Cheetah) for his pace, Fofana could provide a real test of the All Blacks' backs defence if he gets some quality ball. He's also got the pace to put real pressure on attacking kicks.

He's up against Nonu, a player who has looked sluggish through most of the Super Rugby season. The All Blacks will be looking to Nonu to step up and stay fit because there is no specialist second five-eighth cover in their match day squad.

TheGoldenAges

Hope France give a good account of themselves at least. At least Saint-André is playing Fofana in his natural position rather than the wing and seems to have cleared out those who woefully didn't perform in the Six Nations.

Still think New Zealand will win especially without the Top 14 contingent but it'll be a tight one alright

Swiwi

From the NZ Herald: 5 famous French-NZ clashes (no prizes for guessing 2 of the French victories)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10889000

I'd add 1986 in Nantes when Wayne "Buck" Shelford had his nuts ripped off (or just about anyway).

Swiwi

Swiwi's Confession

Swiwi: Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.
Priest: What is it, my son?
Swiwi: (averts gaze) When faced with the choice, I have chosen to go into work early tomorrow, in order to watch the Lions v Reds live. (holds back tears) I will not be able to watch the ABs play at 8.30am.
Priest: Let's just keep this between ourselves, shall we.
Swiwi: Thank you, Father, I could not face the shame if it were to come out.

duckysauce

Swiwi wrote: »

Swiwi's Confession

Swiwi: Forgive me Father, for I have sinned.
Priest: What is it, my son?
Swiwi: (averts gaze) When faced with the choice, I have chosen to go into work early tomorrow, in order to watch the Lions v Reds live. (holds back tears) I will not be able to watch the ABs play at 8.30am.
Priest: Let's just keep this between ourselves, shall we.
Swiwi: Thank you, Father, I could not face the shame if it were to come out.

agggghh make it a proper confession -- call in sick tomorrow nice brekkie in the morning, then beer's for the Lions , then confession and everything will be alright .

thomond2006

Eden Park is sold out for this one.

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Ben Afeaki, 19 Jeremy Thrush, 20 Victor Vito, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Rene Ranger.

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.

Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Daniel Kotze, 19 Akexandre Flanquart, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Jean-Marc Doussain, 22 Frederic Michalak, 23 Maxime Mermoz.

totallegend

thomond2006 wrote: »

Eden Park is sold out for this one.

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

Replacements: 16 Keven Mealamu, 17 Ben Franks, 18 Ben Afeaki, 19 Jeremy Thrush, 20 Victor Vito, 21 Tawera Kerr-Barlow, 22 Beauden Barrett, 23 Rene Ranger.

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.

Replacements: 16 Guilhem Guirado, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Daniel Kotze, 19 Akexandre Flanquart, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Jean-Marc Doussain, 22 Frederic Michalak, 23 Maxime Mermoz.

I'd be worried about NZ running up a cricket score here tbh.

matthew8

thomond2006 wrote: »

New Zealand:
15 Israel Dagg, 14 Ben Smith, 13 Conrad Smith, 12 Ma'a Nonu, 11 Julian Savea, 10 Aaron Cruden, 9 Aaron Smith,
8 Kieran Read (c), 7 Sam Cane, 6 Liam Messam, 5 Brodie Retallick, 4 Luke Romano, 3 Owen Franks, 2 Dane Coles, 1 Wyatt Crockett.

France:
15 Yoann Huget, 14 Adrien Plante, 13 Florian Fritz, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Maxime Medard, 10 Camille Lopez, 9 Maxime Machenaud,
8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Fulgence Ouedraogo, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Sebastien Vahaamahina, 3 Luc Ducalcon, 2 Dimitri Szarzewski, 1 Thomas Domingo.

I hope Lopez is very good. Haven't seen any of Bordeaux this year so a bit of an unknown. I reckon France put up a very good fight, should have the advantage in the front and back row, 9 and 12, but NZ could have a very sizable advantage elsewhere. Good luck to the 84 kg Plante dealing with 108 kg Savea.

From what I've read France is the one country the NZ rugby public doesn't either look down on or hold in contempt for their style of play, don't see a thrashing really.

danthefan

Sadly I think France are going to be hammered. Hope I'm wrong though.

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

I'd be worried about NZ running up a cricket score here tbh.

danthefan wrote: »

Sadly I think France are going to be hammered. Hope I'm wrong though.

Wow, you guys are optimistic about NZ's chances. Traditionally the ABs start the season slow enough, and there will be a few unfamiliar faces to NZ audiences - I've never seen the new flyhalf Lopez play for example.

France were rubbish in the 6N, but they aren't a rubbish side. NZ is missing Carter & McCaw, Dagg/Nonu/ASmith have all had average SXV seasons, and the tight 5 is pretty inexperienced, Franks excepted. The main asset for NZ is Kieran Read, I'd predict a big game leading from the front as captain.

It really depends what mindset the French bring to the game, if they can't be bothered, then it could be fairly hefty, but if PSA can somehow get the French to care, then I could see this being quite close. They'll need to tackle Savea though, he was in savage form earlier in the SXV, although lost a bit of steam with his domestic issues.

I'd pick NZ by 10-15, but with France anything is possible of course.

matthew8

Swiwi I have hardly watched the NZ clubs at all this year, not prepared to wake up at 8am, is it just me or should France have a sizable advantage upfront? I'd almost say I'd only start Messam and Retallick for France, Franks and Read slightly behind.

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

I hope Lopez is very good. Haven't seen any of Bordeaux this year so a bit of an unknown. I reckon France put up a very good fight, should have the advantage in the front and back row, 9 and 12, but NZ could have a very sizable advantage elsewhere. Good luck to the 84 kg Plante dealing with 108 kg Savea.

From what I've read France is the one country the NZ rugby public doesn't either look down on or hold in contempt for their style of play, don't see a thrashing really.

Ah, you're being harsh. We don't have much time for the SA style of play, that I'll give you, and of course you'll struggle to find much love for England, but we admire some of the Aussie stars in recent years (Eales, Horan, Larkham et al), have a soft spot for the Celtic Nations, always support our Pacific Brothers, and like the Latin flair of France & Argentina.

No-one follows domestic French rugby in NZ, except to count how many ex-ABs are plying their trade there, so they are always a bit novel too.

matthew8

Swiwi wrote: »

Ah, you're being harsh. We don't have much time for the SA style of play, that I'll give you, and of course you'll struggle to find much love for England, but we admire some of the Aussie stars in recent years (Eales, Horan, Larkham et al), have a soft spot for the Celtic Nations, always support our Pacific Brothers, and like the Latin flair of France & Argentina.

No-one follows domestic French rugby in NZ, except to count how many ex-ABs are plying their trade there, so they are always a bit novel too.

I don't know, maybe it's because I read the super rugby power rankings a bit much, but it always seems to me like NZ writers take the piss out of Australia, dislike England and SA, and (rightly so considering how they play against NZ) don't seem to take most other nations too seriously as threats, however I've never heard a bad word from a New Zealander about the French national team.

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

Swiwi I have hardly watched the NZ clubs at all this year, not prepared to wake up at 8am, is it just me or should France have a sizable advantage upfront? I'd almost say I'd only start Messam and Retallick for France, Franks and Read slightly behind.

Here's my assessment: Crockett is generally a decent prop, and certainly good round the field, but he is a bit penalty-prone at scrum-time, I don't know much about Ducalcon his French opponent. Dane Coles I am really unsure about, it's his big chance tomorrow. I don't rate Szarzeski at all, so maybe evens there. Both Franks & Domingo are very good, cancel each other out.

In the 2nd row, the injury to Whitelock is unfortunate, he has been outstanding in recent weeks for the Crusaders, maybe the best lock in the SXV, so that's a blow. Retallick & Romano are able replacements, I know little about the French locks.

In the backrow, I think it's fairly even, maybe Dusautoir's getting on a tad, and I do really rate Read, it's a big chance for Cane.

NZ likes to get quick ruck ball, whereas rugby in France is more about scrummaging/mauling etc, so I would worry about French ability to keep up with the speed of NZ's game.

NZ's pack went pretty well last year, outmuscled v SA in Dunedin, and the 'mare v the English at Twickenham, France was good in the first half v England.

Don't know what else to say, but it'll be interesting.

TheGoldenAges

Swiwi wrote: »

Wow, you guys are optimistic about NZ's chances. Traditionally the ABs start the season slow enough, and there will be a few unfamiliar faces to NZ audiences - I've never seen the new flyhalf Lopez play for example.

France were rubbish in the 6N, but they aren't a rubbish side. NZ is missing Carter & McCaw, Dagg/Nonu/ASmith have all had average SXV seasons, and the tight 5 is pretty inexperienced, Franks excepted. The main asset for NZ is Kieran Read, I'd predict a big game leading from the front as captain.

It really depends what mindset the French bring to the game, if they can't be bothered, then it could be fairly hefty, but if PSA can somehow get the French to care, then I could see this being quite close. They'll need to tackle Savea though, he was in savage form earlier in the SXV, although lost a bit of steam with his domestic issues.

I'd pick NZ by 10-15, but with France anything is possible of course.

I think the first test last year when NZ were supposedly "rusty" thought us Irish fans a lesson

Swiwi

matthew8 wrote: »

I don't know, maybe it's because I read the super rugby power rankings a bit much, but it always seems to me like NZ writers take the piss out of Australia, dislike England and SA, and (rightly so considering how they play against NZ) don't seem to take most other nations too seriously as threats, however I've never heard a bad word from a New Zealander about the French national team.

Well there's always the friendly banter with Aussie, and yes we hate 10-man rugby (sometimes to our detriment, eg 2007), which is how the SA & English style of game is viewed.

I guess France flys under the radar because most Kiwis can't speak French, so wouldn't follow the Francophone media, and we just see them as charming guests, with an ability to score crazy tries out of nothing, and produce shock RWC results.

They also had some real hardmen in the past, prior to citing commissioner etc, and when rucking was still legal, so there's been some great battles down the years. I remember a guy called Eric Champ, he was one mean b*st*rd of a rugby player, wouldn't have survived 2 weeks with the video refs in the modern game.

totallegend

Swiwi wrote: »

Here's my assessment: Crockett is generally a decent prop, and certainly good round the field, but he is a bit penalty-prone at scrum-time, I don't know much about Ducalcon his French opponent. Dane Coles I am really unsure about, it's his big chance tomorrow. I don't rate Szarzeski at all, so maybe evens there. Both Franks & Domingo are very good, cancel each other out.

In the 2nd row, the injury to Whitelock is unfortunate, he has been outstanding in recent weeks for the Crusaders, maybe the best lock in the SXV, so that's a blow. Retallick & Romano are able replacements, I know little about the French locks.

Ducalcon is decent, not much more than that, never really been a destructive scrummager but he's OK.

If someone told me that the French locks were the heaviest second-row pairing in history, I'd believe him. They are both monstrous men so France won't be lacking ballast in the row and with Domingo at LH, they might get the edge in the tight.

The back row clash should be fascinating. Ouedraogo is a really good player, hard as nails but quite skilful too, Dusautoir should be well known to the NZers and Picamoles has been in great form this year.

It's in the backs that NZ have the real edge IMO. Medard and Fritz are just not the players they were, I'm not sure if Huget has really transferred his club form to internationals and I don't know too much about Plante to be honest.

Swiwi

totallegend wrote: »

Ducalcon is decent, not much more than that, never really been a destructive scrummager but he's OK.

If someone told me that the French locks were the heaviest second-row pairing in history, I'd believe him. They are both monstrous men so France won't be lacking ballast in the row and with Domingo at LH, they might get the edge in the tight.

The back row clash should be fascinating. Ouedraogo is a really good player, hard as nails but quite skilful too, Dusautoir should be well known to the NZers and Picamoles has been in great form this year.

It's in the backs that NZ have the real edge IMO. Medard and Fritz are just not the players they were, I'm not sure if Huget has really transferred his club form to internationals and I don't know too much about Plante to be honest.

Tackling out of his skin in 2007, and the scrumhalf Elissalde running across the width of the pitch and into touch are my French memories of that game.

He definitely has respect in NZ, even if the commentator did call him Thierry Henry at the RWC final post-match comments.

NZ always has good backs, but Dagg better front up. I guess Rene Ranger has genuine X-factor on the bench, one to throw in against a tiring defence.

danthefan

Haven't seen much of the SXV this season, surprised to read Dagg hasn't been great. In the past few seasons I would have said he's probably been the best fullback in the world.

Swiwi

danthefan wrote: »

Haven't seen much of the SXV this season, surprised to read Dagg hasn't been great. In the past few seasons I would have said he's probably been the best fullback in the world.

Yeah, he has an amazing ability to suddenly front up come the international season, and score tries out of nothing.

Ben Smith has been in dazzling form for the Highlanders, but at fullback, not wing, so if Dagg is struggling, I'd put Smith straight back to FB, and Ranger onto the wing.

I reckon Dagg just lacks confidence, but the ABs is generally a great place to re-find it.

danthefan

Is Ben Smith a bit of a late bloomer, or been injured a lot, or just been overlooked? Just seeing here he's 27, I know he has a handful of caps but it seems quite old to be making a significant breakthrough.

thomond2006

Here we go

the baby bull elephant

danthefan wrote: »

Is Ben Smith a bit of a late bloomer, or been injured a lot, or just been overlooked? Just seeing here he's 27, I know he has a handful of caps but it seems quite old to be making a significant breakthrough.

Been quality for a few seasons but New Zealand have so much quality in the outside backs it's easy to get overlooked.

duckysauce

allez les blues

19543261

Ref took ages there to give that

duckysauce

lively so far

thomond2006

Fofana!!!!

LeeroyJones

FO-FA-NA