Gardaí handle difficult situation

kerry4sam

cusackd wrote: »

Whats you thoughts on this, Gardaí arrest teenager after Portmarnock incident while being called scumbags from the crowd.

Source

I wouldn't mind seeing this video from another angle tbh. This video is not great with it showing two fully-grown men with batons drawn and striking repeatedly on a teenager who is already on the ground. Does not do the force any favours in my eyes from this angle.
Gardaí are supposed to take control of the situation; they had the teenager apprehended and restrained on the ground so was the repeated strikes necessary? I don't know. I was not there but this seems excessive from this video. Another video; in another light and it may highlight something else.

Witcher

kerry4sam wrote: »

This video is not great with it showing two fully-grown men with batons drawn and striking repeatedly on a teenager who is already on the ground.

How many strikes did you count in the video?

BlimpGaz

NiallSparky wrote: »

Quite the historian it appears.

Thanks. I mostly use yahoo answers and wikipedia to decipher my truths about the past. My latest theory is that homosexuality was caused by a hybrid of human and walrus originating from Japan.

jd83

Gardai let things slide and do nothing about scumbags people complain, they make arrests and use some force trying to protect themselves and their colleagues people complain. They just cant win.

Even after they arrest scum there out on the street the next day or get some b.s suspended sentence handed down to them by a judge. Has to be the most frustrating job in the world! I couldn't do it.

Well done to ones in video and the dog!

looksee

Can anyone tell me exactly when the youth on the ground was struck? Yes there were batons out, and one garda knocked a cuff or something metal off the ground, but I cannot see anyone doing any striking.

Solair

Why can't people figure out how to shoot a video with their phone held horizontally !?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bt9zSfinwFA

explains all!

Dyr

Needs more german shepherds tbh

If there's one thing that scummers fear, whether they be indigenous-urban, traveller or the new-irish, its the prospect of a few four legged torpedo's being launched at them.

Witcher

looksee wrote: »

Can anyone tell me exactly when the youth on the ground was struck? Yes there were batons out, and one garda knocked a cuff or something metal off the ground, but I cannot see anyone doing any striking.

Only once on the leg at 0:54 by the Garda on the right.

Solair

It looks messy, but compared to most police forces in the world, their reaction was pretty tame.

If you pulled a stunt like that in the states, i.e. knocking an officer over while he was trying to arrest you, you'd probably just be shot.

In France, if you rioted like that, they'd have had the tear gas out and a complete over-reaction with hundreds of police officers in riot gear. They seem to have the CRS on standby for stuff like that.

The behaviour in all those videos is nothing different to football hooligans on the rampage.

I'm not saying that the US or French reaction is correct, if anything it just provokes even more violence. But I am not really seeing much of an over-reaction by the Gardai there. If you resist arrest, you'll get arrested whether you like it or not. That's pretty much the deal everywhere.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

He was told to turn over, he didn't so he got a wrap of the baton on the legs. I only see two hits. He turns over and there are no more hits.

We don't see what happened before so we are not sure if the guard has only asked him once or 15 times.

If the guy that got arrested was only asked once and wasn't warned about getting hit, then I would say it was excessive as he should be given time to react.

Just my opinion.

--Kaiser--

I am surprised they were so restrained to be honest

Local-womanizer

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

I said apprehended, not arrested.

Nobody doubts the need to use restraint, except I would struggle to describe what we saw here as "restraint"... it's not clear, it's too hard to say what was happening on the ground. I'm just saying it looks bad.

It's the job of the Gardaí to bring people into detention and process them; it's the job of the law to prosecute. That's directed more at the "I'd set the dogs on them" crowd than it is at the Gardaí, because the Gardaí (usually) appreciate this fact already.

The need was most likely there for the batons to be used, but again from the video that's not clear.

I appreciate that it looks bad, to the average civilian an arrest like this would look bad and on the violent side, but many fail to realise the gardai would have a set of guidelines in relation to the use of force, one being use of numbers, batons would be after that. If you fail to comply when 3 cops are trying to cuff you, they will use batons. They are trained on how to use these batons effectively, ie where to strike a person. It looks like they strike him on the thighs, which would hurt like hell, but with the right amount of force just give the guy a dead leg and make him stop resisting.

Restraint in the AGS case would involve having a suspect under total control so they cannot harm themselves, members of the public or the arresting officers. To achieve this restraint a certain level of controlled violence is needed at times. The difference between a good guard and a suspect like the one in the video is the guard will carry out his duty in accordance with his training and not let emotions dictate his actions. That's what looks like happens here, good policing.

Hootanany

Prodigious wrote: »

Even though your man was a prick in the first place, the guards were totally OTT with the arrest.
Even though it was total yobs calling them scumbags, they weren't wrong.
This would have been appropriate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj275JIZh7I

Was that Trappatoni

mikom

Hootanany wrote: »

Was that Trappatoni

Yep.

Rayne Wooney

Repeatedly striking?

Let's all play the counting game,

1, ......... Ah that's it so.

Hootanany

I saw at least 3 strikes.

Dyr

kerry4sam wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing this video from another angle tbh. This video is not great with it showing two fully-grown men with batons drawn and striking repeatedly on a teenager who is already on the ground. Does not do the force any favours in my eyes from this angle.
Gardaí are supposed to take control of the situation; they had the teenager apprehended and restrained on the ground so was the repeated strikes necessary? I don't know. I was not there but this seems excessive from this video. Another video; in another light and it may highlight something else.

the "teenager" looks bigger than the two fully grown men. That said, his ma is probably still claiming childrens allowance for him. :pac:

Solair

The other issue is that the Gardaí (and most British police too) are unarmed. So, when they do have to confront a situation like this they don't have the 'threat' of a gun which is what other police forces tend to use to ensure someone cooperates.

The result is that in cases like this someone may end up getting whacked with a baton or being tackled rather more physically than in a country where the police would just point a loaded gun at you and won't necessarily hesitate to shoot if you don't comply.

So, obviously in Ireland or Britain you're going to see 'messy' arrests.

I'd still prefer the situation where you're dealing with police that are going to have to rugby tackle someone than a situation where they'll shoot first and ask questions later, as is the case in the US a lot of the time.

In a lot of continental countries the police are very fond of pepper spray, tear gas, very brutal baton charges etc and they will point and wave guns at people too without much fuss.

So, all in all I don't think we're exactly being massively oppressed by a heavily armed state or something.

Gatling

Hootanany wrote: »

I saw at least 3 strikes.

Where ,

one strike to the back of the leg ,

Don't know where people are getting 3,5,6 hits

Rayne Wooney

Hootanany wrote: »

I saw at least 3 strikes.

Well I'm failing to see any other strikes with the ASP other than the one at exactly 53 seconds in that video.

Pappa Charlie

kerry4sam wrote: »

I wouldn't mind seeing this video from another angle tbh. This video is not great with it showing two fully-grown men with batons drawn and striking repeatedly on a teenager who is already on the ground. Does not do the force any favours in my eyes from this angle.
Gardaí are supposed to take control of the situation; they had the teenager apprehended and restrained on the ground so was the repeated strikes necessary? I don't know. I was not there but this seems excessive from this video. Another video; in another light and it may highlight something else.

Are you speaking as a former garda reserve?

Solair

One comment though (and I'm being very pedantic)

The Gardaí should have one single phrase they use for clearing an area.

"Go home" could be misinterpreted.
"Leave the area" can't be.

Minor detail, but it's important especially if you're dealing with large crowd / poor audio (no megaphones) and people who may not necessarily interpret everything as it was intended.

Although, hopefully not as pedantic as what I heard in the US once:

"Return to your place of residence!"

I mean ?!

---

The other aspect of this is that you really wouldn't expect the Gardaí to have public order units in Portmarnock.
You're looking at a very small number of police, from a local area, trying to deal with a pretty serious riot type situation that really needed the same level of policing as a major concert or something like that.

I don't think any police force can really plan for something like this as in most cases everyone would just chill out and enjoy a nice day on the beach!

Hootanany

Defo 3 strikes.

Local-womanizer

Hootanany wrote: »

Defo 3 strikes.

Where?!

I watched it a few times. Genuinely I can only see the one, when the guy is on his side and he gets on the legs, then he lies flat.

tayto lover

Hootanany wrote: »

Defo 3 strikes.

If he received one for every time he was told to go home it would have served him right. How many times should an officer have to tell someone to go home?

Cody Pomeray

Local-womanizer wrote: »

The need was most likely there for the batons to be used, but again from the video that's not clear.

I appreciate that it looks bad, to the average civilian an arrest like this would look bad and on the violent side, but many fail to realise the gardai would have a set of guidelines...

Garda guidelines are of limited relevance to a Court, were either a civil or a criminal case to arise.

The most important question a jury would have to answer in a criminal case is whether a reasonable Garda would have used the baton in this situation, when there were already three Gardaí apprehending an individual: one at the suspect's head, the other his trunk and the other (the man who struck with the baton) at the suspect's legs. What's more, the man on the ground doesn't seem to be trying to stand up or kick out or use any force himself.

Gatling

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Where?!

I watched it a few times. Genuinely I can only see the one, when the guy is on his side and he gets on the legs, then he lies flat.

Somebody's watching the Rodney king video

dsmythy

Gardaí forever verbally pounded anyway. For being too soft and for being too hard. Thankless job.

Hootanany

But lucrative

Local-womanizer

Cody Pomeray wrote: »

Garda guidelines are of limited relevance to a Court, were either a civil or a criminal case to arise

Actually it has every relevance. If a Gardai follows the degrees of force properly he is in the clear. The first thing the court would ask is did you follow the proper procedures, if yes grand.

The guy wouldn't lie flat, you can still resist and even pull out a weapon with three people on top of you. Refuse to follow orders and you will be hit. Simple as that.