Contaminated cannabis

ScumLord

Grayson wrote: »

When you do hear of contaminated drugs, it's usually higher grade pharmaceuticals. Because they are far harder to bulk out. Simple sugar can be used, but that will reduce the potency. So they tend to use other drugs. And because of the price of these drugs, they tend to go for cheaper options.

It's easy enough to bulk out the chemical drugs, you can use the likes of creatine or there are loads of other inert bulking agents, most over the counter drugs are made primarily of bulking agents. The problem arises when the drugs become very weak after bulking and they add in something else to try and bring back some symptoms so people have some of the feelings of being on something.

Pace2008 wrote: »

I suppose you could eat the weed straight from the bag,

You could but you wouldn't get high. Cannabis oil needs to be heated before it becomes effective. Hash has already gone through that process which is why you can eat it raw (but you should never eat hash, even if it's the best of the best afghan or moroccan hash just think of the unwashed hands of the guys producing the hash, it can be full of all sorts of harmful contaminants). Weed is basically inactive until it's heated.

dd972

Did they eat this stuff as I can't imagine it being smoking related?

Orim

And the Irish Sun can also reveal docs believe one of the women had also sniffed a can and a half of deodorant in an attempt to get high

Bet it was from africa. :pac:

the_syco

ScumLord wrote: »

Weed is basically inactive until it's heated.

Although true for THC weed, it's more beneficial for anyone with weed high in CBD to eat it. Before someone says "you won't get as high eating it" I'll say that high CBD weed will be low THC weed, and thus you won't really get high anyway. Weed with high CBD is for people wanting to relieve pain, as opposed to people wanting to get high.

ScumLord

the_syco wrote: »

Although true for THC weed, it's more beneficial for anyone with weed high in CBD to eat it.

I would say anyone that what's to use cannabis medically should definitely be looking at eating it. Smoking is counterproductive for medical purposes, is pretty hard to control dose and effects don't last as long as when eaten.

People like the idea of making medical cannabis cookies but again you don't really know what's in each cookie. Pills or oral sprays would seem to me to be the best way to administer if that option is there.

Grayson

ScumLord wrote: »

It's easy enough to bulk out the chemical drugs, you can use the likes of creatine or there are loads of other inert bulking agents, most over the counter drugs are made primarily of bulking agents. The problem arises when the drugs become very weak after bulking and they add in something else to try and bring back some symptoms so people have some of the feelings of being on something.

That was the point I was trying to make. With pharmaceuticals if they just bulk out you end up with weak sugary pills. So they add in other drugs. But with hash they rarely do that.

ScumLord

Grayson wrote: »

That was the point I was trying to make. With pharmaceuticals if they just bulk out you end up with weak sugary pills. So they add in other drugs. But with hash they rarely do that.

I've heard they add sleeping pills to bring back the sleepy stoned feeling.

crimewave

I read up until post number 163, but I simply couldn't read any more. There's people posting in this thread who haven't got a notion what they are talking about.

people talking about bulking up cannabis with nettles, angle dust and sleeping pills etc.... please stop posting because you heard from a mate or something. This is the way these myths are perpetuated.

We are talking about two different forms of cannabis...

A) cannabis resin (hash)
herbal cannabis (weed)

Both can be adulterated.

Hash is supposed to be pure trichomes (crystals) compressed into a solid. Hash made from 100% trichomes would be extremely potent.
It is thought that the "hash" we have been using in ireland for 30 years could be as low as 5-10% trichomes, with the rest being adulterants. Having smoked cannabis heavily myself for over 15 years I would estimate this to be fairly accurate, but I wanted to investigate this further.
Due to the appearance and physical composition of hash, the adulterants can be a very wide range of materials.

Herbal cannabis is the dried and cured flowers of the cannabis plant. The flowers are the buds. The trichomes (commonly referred to as crystals) are the bit that contains the vast amount of psychoactive chemicals.
It is more difficult to adulterate herbal cannabis without experienced users noticing.
Young or inexperienced users won't know what to look out for though due to the lack of clear, unbiased information.
The idea behind using silica glass or similar, is that it will mimic the trichomes. etc.

I published an academic paper on this very subject... whether or not the prohibition of cannabis is making the drug more dangerous for users. I mainly focussed on the contamination aspect.

For this paper I interviewed many experts. One of these experts was Dr Des Corrigan. He is head of neuropharmacology at TCD iirc.
He was in charge of testing cannabis samples for the gardai for 30 years. I asked him in detail about the contamination issue. He said that in the 30 years of testing, they had never found adulterants. This was because in the 30 years they never analysed the composition. How much was cannabis material versus how much was adulterant. Or what adulterants were in it.

Basically they were testing the samples to ascertain beyond doubt that the samples contained THC so that the owner of the sample could be prosecuted.

I did an awful lot of research. From what I could find, no government around the world has ever made funding available to check the purity of the cannabis. I could not find data of any description regarding this.
Governments do not want to be seen to be trying to make illegal drugs safer.

This is the bit I don't get..


Governments will claim that they ban substances to protect citizens.
But human nature is something that cannot be controlled or legislated for.
People have always, and will always take drugs whether illegal or not.

Therefore, while the prevailing mentality is: "if people take drugs that are not legal, who cares if their health is damaged. its their own fault".

I think the attitude should be: "if people are going to use drugs no matter what we do/say/legislate.... We might as well try to lessen the damage as much as possible."



Cannabis smokers are people. They are mothers, father, brothers and sisters. They are your kids.
But on this issue, their welfare is placed below that of animals.
If alcohol producers somehow started bulking bottles of beer with silica particles, would they be allowed to keep doing it? or would it cause a massive national/international outrage?

I just hope that the media doesn't begin to cite yet another prohibition-caused problem as a reason why cannabis should stay illegal.

Ash.J.Williams

hang on there.......so it was cannabis resin type stuff??? that changes things, i would guess toxicology will prove this was artificial stuff. As for the deodorant bit...that would definitely kill you, it's well known.

zonEEE

UK man dies after drinking three litres of cola a day

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10887455&ref=rss


Will coke be banned? I think not.

Odysseus

@ Crimewave,

Cheers for your post, I was thinking about this in work today. I meant to pop down to the clinic to see if any other info was available, but I was locked in my office today focused on paperwork.

Anyway to my point, I remember a few years back I think maybe 05-06, there was another cannabis alert. It was in connection to grass not resin, but I can't remember if they was actually anything to it.

Do you remember it, or have you heard of it, if so was any contaminent actually found that time?

hfallada

zonEEE wrote: »

UK man dies after drinking three litres of cola a day

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10887455&ref=rss


Will coke be banned? I think not.

Everything pretty much can kill you in excessive amounts. Alcohol, cigarettes and even paracetamol. If you dont buy something from a safe supplier there is a chance of death eg cheap bootleg vodka. Cannabis from a coffee shop would be regulated and safe

zonEEE

hfallada wrote: »

Everything pretty much can kill you in excessive amounts. Alcohol, cigarettes and even paracetamol. If you dont buy something from a safe supplier there is a chance of death eg cheap bootleg vodka. Cannabis from a coffee shop would be regulated and safe

Everything but cannabis. Its impossible to overdose.

crimewave

More points:

Cannabis will never be bulked with contaminants that are more expensive than the cannabis itself. That rules out the use of other drugs being used as contaminants.

Also, regarding the prevalence of contamination:
It has not abated in recent years, contrary to what i have read in this thread. What has happened is that there has been an explosion of micro grow operations around the country. This is users who grow for themselves and their friends.

Cannabis from industrial grow houses within or outside is still regularly adulterated. Irish cannabis users have become much more savvy in the past 10 years. Quality is now a much bigger issue for users, hence why the small grow operations have become popular. People these days specifically look for good quality cannabis.

Can we change the title of this thread to something a little more realistic like:

Woman inhales 2 cans of deodorant and suffers organ failure, Gardai release "cannabis alert."

drumswan

Crazy that we have to rely on information on a forum like this for what is happening, while the media and Gardai are happy to parrot nonsense about 'contaminated cannabis'

My name is URL

Is it being reported anywhere other than The Sun that one of the girls 'sniffed a can and a half of deodarant'? I can't find any mention of it elsewhere. Mad how people take as gospel, stuff printed in that rag when it suits them!

crimewave

Odysseus wrote: »

@ Crimewave,

Cheers for your post, I was thinking about this in work today. I meant to pop down to the clinic to see if any other info was available, but I was locked in my office today focused on paperwork.

Anyway to my point, I remember a few years back I think maybe 05-06, there was another cannabis alert. It was in connection to grass not resin, but I can't remember if they was actually anything to it.

Do you remember it, or have you heard of it, if so was any contaminent actually found that time?

@odysseus,

I dont remember that specific alert, no.
but according to my source, testing for contaminants was never a priority.

In fact many people i interviewed about this subject argued that the potential psychological effects on some users is a bigger issue than contamination.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

Is it being reported anywhere other than The Sun that one of the girls 'sniffed a can and a half of deodarant'? I can't find any mention of it elsewhere. Mad how people take as gospel, stuff printed in that rag when it suits them!

People are believing it because it makes a hell of a lot more sense than "contaminated weed." It may not be the gospel truth, but is most definitely closer to the truth than the line being trotted to us by the Gardai and the Irish Media (TV3 news just over an hour ago put out another warning about this contaminated cannabis that has yet to effect one other person).

Odysseus

crimewave wrote: »

@odysseus,

I dont remember that specific alert, no.
but according to my source, testing for contaminants was never a priority.

In fact many people i interviewed about this subject argued that the potential psychological effects on some users is a bigger issue than contamination.

Cheers, I can't remember the exact details on it; I can remember the alert and it was quite a big one IIRC, but I can't remember what the finding where, if there where any.


I have a feeling that it just slowly lost its public interest and faded away. I would like to say that that nothing was found and it was the cannabis that was contaminated, but I could be wrong.

However, in all the time I have worked in the Addiction Services that is the only other alert for contaminated cannabis I have encountered.

We usually get a few about coke and heroin each year, but not cannabis.

My name is URL

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

People are believing it because it makes a hell of a lot more sense than "contaminated weed." It may not be the gospel truth, but is most definitely closer to the truth than the line being trotted to us by the Gardai and the Irish Media (TV3 news just over an hour ago put out another warning about this contaminated cannabis that has yet to effect one other person).

It's not just Gardai and news agencies trotting out the warning about the potential risk of contaminated weed. The HSE and a rake of doctors have also urged people to excercise caution.

Maybe it would make more sense if it was caused by sniffing a shitload of solvents, it'd make more sense if she drank a load of vodka too, or if she OD'd on paracetemol... but where's the logic in choosing to ignore what authorities are saying; and instead coming up with alternative possibilities just because nobody wants to believe that some batch of weed / hash may be dangerously contaminated?

There are two people, unrelated and unknown to one another, in an ICU suffering from multiple organ failure, and the only known thing that they have in common is that they had been smoking the same stuff prior to becomming ill. It's hardly a shock or an outrage that Gardai, Doctors and news agencies would urge people to err on the side of caution as a result.

ScumLord

crimewave wrote: »

I did an awful lot of research. From what I could find, no government around the world has ever made funding available to check the purity of the cannabis.

The dutch have done studies on drugs like MDMA which is what lead to all the tests you can have done without the fear of prosecution. It would probably seem a bit redundant to them to do the same level of testing on cannabis products given the situation over there. The bad publicity on it's own would be enough to prevent Dutch coffeshops from messing with cannabis, which is the advantage of having a legal process in place. I believe there have been media scares in the press over there about certain shops that have shut down shops.

Low level drug contamination seems to be particularly an Irish problem, that being drugs that are essentially watered down for added profit. It doesn't seem to be as much of an issue in other countries and cities probably down to competition in those places. I think Irelands criminal scene is controlled by a small minority that have a monopoly on the market and that can get away with more than gangs in bigger countries can. Irish consumers often have little option but to take what's on offer.

ScumLord

Odysseus wrote: »

Cheers, I can't remember the exact details on it; I can remember the alert and it was quite a big one IIRC, but I can't remember what the finding where, if there where any.

There was weed that they had sprayed with the same lacquer hardener type stuff they use to paint lines in the middle of the road. This had little glass beads in it for reflective purposes that was supposed to make the weed look better because it would look like it's covered in trichomes.

There definitely was something like that out there, the test was to chew on a bit of the weed and you'd feel the glass beads crushing under your teeth.

mikom

So how's this much vaunted chromatography coming along then..........

Odysseus

ScumLord wrote: »

There was weed that they had sprayed with the same lacquer hardener type stuff they use to paint lines in the middle of the road. This had little glass beads in it for reflective purposes that was supposed to make the weed look better because it would look like it's covered in trichomes.

There definitely was something like that out there, the test was to chew on a bit of the weed and you'd feel the glass beads crushing under your teeth.

Cheers that rings a bell, I think that was it, I remember the thing about the beads. Was it confirmed that it was contaminated and that the above was used.


I can't remember hearing any confirmation from the lab that it was actually contaminated, IIIRC the public interest in it just faded away at it does with stuff like this.

Can you remember when it was?

Andy-Pandy

ScumLord wrote: »

There was weed that they had sprayed with the same lacquer hardener type stuff they use to paint lines in the middle of the road. This had little glass beads in it for reflective purposes that was supposed to make the weed look better because it would look like it's covered in trichomes.

There definitely was something like that out there, the test was to chew on a bit of the weed and you'd feel the glass beads crushing under your teeth.

And it used to sparkle when it was being burnt. I always thought that it was the Vietnamese grow house weed that sparkled.

ScumLord

Odysseus wrote: »

I can't remember hearing any confirmation from the lab that it was actually contaminated, IIIRC the public interest in it just faded away at it does with stuff like this.

I don't remember hearing any confirmation from a lab, it was all internet hearsay but I did experience the glass in the mouth thing personally.

My name is URL

My name is URL wrote: »

It's not just Gardai and news agencies trotting out the warning about the potential risk of contaminated weed. The HSE and a rake of doctors have also urged people to excercise caution.

Maybe it would make more sense if it was caused by sniffing a shitload of solvents, it'd make more sense if she drank a load of vodka too, or if she OD'd on paracetemol... but where's the logic in choosing to ignore what authorities are saying; and instead coming up with alternative possibilities just because nobody wants to believe that some batch of weed / hash may be dangerously contaminated?

There are two people, unrelated and unknown to one another, in an ICU suffering from multiple organ failure, and the only known thing that they have in common is that they had been smoking the same stuff prior to becomming ill. It's hardly a shock or an outrage that Gardai, Doctors and news agencies would urge people to err on the side of caution as a result.

Garda, government sponsored Doctors and the media have ZERO credibility when it comes to this stuff, that is why we are slow to believe that a demon batch of hash caused these illnesses.

Odysseus

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Garda, government sponsored Doctors and the media have ZERO credibility when it comes to this stuff, that is why we are slow to believe that a demon batch of hash caused these illnesses.

Exactly what is a government sponsored doctor, and when it comes to a drug alert why should I not trust them?

Odysseus

Odysseus wrote: »

Exactly what is a government sponsored doctor, and when it comes to a drug alert why should I not trust them?

They had a rep from the HSE on the 9pm RTE news yesterday whose synopsis of the situation was essentially "This is what happens when you mess with drugs."

It's laughable, and fair play to you for your undoubting support for government sponsored narcotic information. Personally, they would be the last organization I would look to for advice about drugs.