Should Cyclists Pay Road Tax

stephen97

i say yes, motorcyclists have to pay motor tax and receive no benefits in terms of parking, bus lanes. but cyclists get cycle lanes and parking places without contributing

paulmclaughlin

Here we go again...

endacl

stephen97 wrote: »

i say yes, motorcyclists have to pay and receive no benefits in terms of parking, bus lanes. but cyclists get cycle lanes and parking places without contributing

Great original thread op. I predict calm, reasonable discourse.

humbert

http://picardfacepalm.com/picard-facepalm-hotlink.jpg

SouthTippBass

Have you seen the cut of the cycle lanes? Dont forget about the pedestrian tax, what with all those footpaths and everything.

SnakePlissken

stephen97 wrote: »

i say yes, motorcyclists have to pay

No, they don't.

keith16

Happily for everyone concerned, road tax does not exist.

So no.

Jimoslimos

Well if you fitted an engine onto the bicycle they might have to pay Motor Tax

WIZE

is this some new type of tax OP

Idleater

stephen97 wrote: »

i say yes, motorcyclists have to pay and receive no benefits in terms of parking, bus lanes. but cyclists get cycle lanes and parking places without contributing

Erm, I pay motor tax for my car and motorcycle that is parked on the drive while I cycle or take the bus to work?
Are you proposing to refund me for non use?

keith16

Also, cyclists contribute very much in terms or reducing traffic congestion, noise and carbon pollution.

The Backwards Man

Yes they should. I also believe the unemployed should pay Income Tax and dogs should pay Capital Gains Tax on their kennels.

endacl

Can't be arsed voting op. fwiw, I do pay motor tax.

Wacker The Attacker

If cyclists avoid road tax then motorists should be allowed kill them. deally by knocking them down.

UCDVet

I'd like to see a system where everyone paid an amount directly related to the actual cost of maintaining the roads, with consideration for the number of kms driven and the wear and tear caused.

Personally, I think cyclists should need a license and insurance....everything a motorcycle should need. It strikes me as a big contradiction to treat bicycles like serious methods of transportation in one breath, but in the next say, 'Nahhhhh - it's cool....just ride em! Tis grand, give her a go!'

I also have trouble reconciling the fact that electric powered bicycles are limited to 15km per hour but anyone who is fit enough/going downhill is welcome to greatly exceed that speed.

Wacker The Attacker

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Yes they should. I also believe the unemployed should pay Income Tax and dogs should pay Capital Gains Tax on their kennels.

Awesome paradox

Katunga

as due to the weight of a bicycle does not cause any ware to the roads. I say this as a motorist.

rainbow kirby

Considering that it benefits just about everyone (less traffic overall, having a critical mass of cyclists on the road makes it safer for all cyclists, better for the environment) if more people cycle to work, and considering that it's "Motor Tax" anyway - hell no.

Mugser

So I guess if a cyclist farts while cycling that'll increase the amount of CO2 based tax he/she'll have to pay:rolleyes:

Arpa

Last month I was a cyclist till my got knicked. Now I am a pedestrian. Tomorrow I may be a cyclist again. With such fluctuating usage of bikes how could you possibly police who is paying or not?

Pilotdude5

Bears should pay the bear tax! I pay the Homer tax.

Ilik Urgee

What say all cyclists charge a dyno that must be plugged into the national grid each evening.
Should they not reach an allocated amount of energy over a given time, dole receivers would receive that bike and top up as needs be. Non-compliance would see the bike confiscated or the dole rescinded on either's behalf....

dx22

humbert wrote: »

http://picardfacepalm.com/picard-facepalm-hotlink.jpg

I think we are going to need a bigger palm!

Death and Taxes

stephen97 wrote: »

i say yes, motorcyclists have to pay and receive no benefits in terms of parking, bus lanes. but cyclists get cycle lanes and parking places without contributing

Nobody else pays road tax so why should cyclists.
Motorists pay motor tax however, so perhaps we should introduce a cycle tax!

hardCopy

UCDVet wrote: »

I'd like to see a system where everyone paid an amount directly related to the actual cost of maintaining the roads, with consideration for the number of kms driven and the wear and tear caused.

Personally, I think cyclists should need a license and insurance....everything a motorcycle should need. It strikes me as a big contradiction to treat bicycles like serious methods of transportation in one breath, but in the next say, 'Nahhhhh - it's cool....just ride em! Tis grand, give her a go!'

I also have trouble reconciling the fact that electric powered bicycles are limited to 15km per hour but anyone who is fit enough/going downhill is welcome to greatly exceed that speed.

I'd like to extend your idea and pay cyclists based on the benefits they provide to everyone else.

OP, most cyclists already pay motor tax on the cars they leave at home when they cycle. By cycling they not only use less road space than a car, they also produce less emissions than a motorbike or bus. They also don't kill people.

Next time a cyclists whizzes past you in traffic, say thanks.

endacl

Death and Taxes wrote: »

Nobody else pays road tax so why should cyclists.
Motorists pay motor tax however, so perhaps we should introduce a cycle tax!

Like VAT? On bikes and stuff? They should do that.

UCDVet

keith16 wrote: »

Also, cyclists contribute very much in terms or reducing traffic congestion, noise and carbon pollution.

Have there been any actual studies on this?

Noise - absolutely, I can accept that.

But I'm not sure about traffic congestion as I frequently see one cyclist slow down many cars. Most of my cycle route includes bus lanes and it's not at all uncommon for a single cyclist to delay a bus (which has the same number of people as 40? cars). Also, because of how the cycle paths are located, it creates sub-optimal driving patterns - a car turning left is now turning left across a bicycle path (as one example) - I know I've been in the wrong spot at the wrong time and caused cars to wait on me because I'm in their way.

Carbon pollution....is another one I question. I'll use myself as an example....I used to ride the bus, now I ride a bicycle. Producing the bicycle had to have some associated pollution...in fact, I'd be it was a lot of pollution. Different parts were made all over the world and shipped from one factor to another, then assembled into a bicycle, then shipped somewhere else; and so on and so forth. Then it sat in the backroom of the CycleSuper Store for some days/weeks/months until I came in, picked it out, had it packaged and shipped to my home, where I assembled the last bits and started riding.

Even though I commute every day; I have to imagine it will take a LOT of trips to and from work before there is a net-loss in pollution. Most of my co-workers with bicycles *also* have cars, and they only ride to the office occasionally. I really question if there cycling will ever offset the pollution in creating/shipping/obtaining/maintaining the bicycle.

The Backwards Man

In fairness, the OP's idea isn't as ridiculous as a television tax for televisionless people.

Uriel.

Arpa wrote: »

Last month I was a cyclist till my got knicked. Now I am a pedestrian. Tomorrow I may be a cyclist again. With such fluctuating usage of bikes how could you possibly police who is paying or not?

A bicycle licence?

I'd actually favour that. It so cyclists have to pay "road" tax but so they could have the rules of the road properly enforced against them. Most cyclists, like most drivers largely obey the rules and cycle safely but some quite frankly don't. If you're a driver of a vehicle and you're caught you are easily identified and there are relatively efficient and fool proof processes in place to make you answerable

donvito99

i was under the impression it's motor tax and not road tax.

Death and Taxes

Death and Taxes wrote: »

Nobody else pays road tax so why should cyclists.
Motorists pay motor tax however, so perhaps we should introduce a cycle tax!

Does that mean that owners of secondhand bicycles have to pay a recycle tax! :pac:

Uriel.

donvito99 wrote: »

i was under the impression it's motor tax and not road tax.

Congratulations you're only about 30 posts late with that hilarious quip

hardCopy

Uriel. wrote: »

Congratulations you're only about 30 posts late with that hilarious quip

Maybe if we say it another thirty times it'll sink in before somebody asks this next week.

stephen97

rainbow kirby wrote: »

Considering that it benefits just about everyone (less traffic overall, having a critical mass of cyclists on the road makes it safer for all cyclists, better for the environment) if more people cycle to work, and considering that it's "Motor Tax" anyway - hell no.

its universally known as road tax but called motor tax because of the the way it is charged depending on engine size,emissions ect, but this was not always the case, sections of revenue.ie still refer to it as road tax

UCDVet

hardCopy wrote: »

Maybe if we say it another thirty times it'll sink in before somebody asks this next week.

I dunno the legal definition of 'motor' but I'd consider the cyclist the 'motor'. We are what power the vehicle, and couldn't do that without an energy source (food) and electricity.

It's not like bicycles just magically move themselves.

Death and Taxes

stephen97 wrote: »

its universally known as road tax but called motor tax because of the the way it is charged depending on engine size,emissions ect, but this was not always the case, sections of revenue.ie still refer to it as road tax

It is officially named Road Tax.
Thread just didn't turn out the way planned , did it OP:D

doolox

A lot of cyclists are under age and do not have significant assets or traceable identity like driving licences which can be used to leverage payment by seizure of goods of significant value ( a car) or taking away a qualifying document such as a licence by which the authorities can gain some control over the motoring public.

A similar problem exists with horse drawn vehicles or people powered carts although these are very rare on Irish roads.

Also very rare nowadays on our roads are animals being driven as used to happen often years ago.

Knasher

stephen97 wrote: »

i say yes, motorcyclists have to pay and receive no benefits in terms of parking, bus lanes. but cyclists get cycle lanes and parking places without contributing

AFAIK motor tax isn't near enough to pay for the total cost of upkeep on the roads. Everyone pays something towards the upkeep of the roads. Motor vehicles are required to pay more through motor tax, but they also do more damage to the roads due to their heavy vehicles.

endacl

After an exhaustive search OP, I managed to turn up one or two threads that might be of interest to you. Maybe if you trawl through them you might find an angle that hasn't been done to death?

Enjoy...

http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=cyclists%20tax

Turtyturd

endacl wrote: »

After an exhaustive search OP, I managed to turn up one or two threads that might be of interest to you. Maybe if you trawl through them you might find an angle that hasn't been done to death?

Enjoy...

http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?query=cyclists%20tax

Just bump the first one OP....no point in dragging up any of the older ones.

Cyclists should have to pay all kinds of tax, especially a we'll hold up buses by cycling in the middle of the bus land because we are w*nkers tax,and we don't understand how traffic lights work tax.

scudzilla

I do think that cyclists should have to have some kind of Insurance

MickFleetwood

What the fúck is road tax?

Jimoslimos

Turtyturd wrote: »

Cyclists should have to pay all kinds of tax, especially a we'll hold up buses by cycling in the middle of the bus land because we are w*nkers tax,and we don't understand how traffic lights work tax.

Perhaps if the traffic planners had designed proper cycle lanes instead of sticking them in a bus lane as an afterthought we wouldn't have this problem.

I'd much rather a separate cycle lane, scrap the bus lane and give the extra space to other motorists.

endacl

scudzilla wrote: »

I do think that cyclists should have to have some kind of Insurance

Damn right. Some of them are downright menaces!!

hardCopy

scudzilla wrote: »

I do think that cyclists should have to have some kind of Insurance

If deaths and injuries caused by cyclists ever become an issue then we can revisit this. For now it's a no from me.

endacl

rolliepoley wrote: »

I think if you want to use a push bike there should be a mandatory chipping system where all push bike users can be identified and as to who owns the said push bike, and also the cost of the bike chip should fall on the owners to help with the maintenance of the push bike lanes.

Actually not a terrible idea, but not for the stated purpose. Could help with returning recovered stolen bikes to the owners.

keith16

UCDVet wrote: »

Have there been any actual studies on this?

Noise - absolutely, I can accept that.

But I'm not sure about traffic congestion as I frequently see one cyclist slow down many cars. Most of my cycle route includes bus lanes and it's not at all uncommon for a single cyclist to delay a bus (which has the same number of people as 40? cars). Also, because of how the cycle paths are located, it creates sub-optimal driving patterns - a car turning left is now turning left across a bicycle path (as one example) - I know I've been in the wrong spot at the wrong time and caused cars to wait on me because I'm in their way.

I agree that cyclists can slow a bus down but buses are stopping every 5 mins anyway (for about 5 mins with every feicer getting on needing a chat with the driver to facilitate the transaction).

In a car, generally I am passing cyclists without difficulty and if it is a bit of a squeeze I'm never stuck behind them for long.

UCDVet wrote: »

Carbon pollution....is another one I question. I'll use myself as an example....I used to ride the bus, now I ride a bicycle. Producing the bicycle had to have some associated pollution...in fact, I'd be it was a lot of pollution. Different parts were made all over the world and shipped from one factor to another, then assembled into a bicycle, then shipped somewhere else; and so on and so forth. Then it sat in the backroom of the CycleSuper Store for some days/weeks/months until I came in, picked it out, had it packaged and shipped to my home, where I assembled the last bits and started riding.

Same deal for a car / bus / pair of shoes!

UCDVet wrote: »

Even though I commute every day; I have to imagine it will take a LOT of trips to and from work before there is a net-loss in pollution. Most of my co-workers with bicycles *also* have cars, and they only ride to the office occasionally. I really question if there cycling will ever offset the pollution in creating/shipping/obtaining/maintaining the bicycle.

Not sure if there has been studies done and I, like you, am only going by personal experience. But I have noticed a huge increase the the number of cyclists in Dublin over the last few years. There are an incredible amount of them on the road and if everyone of them was replaced with a car, I don't think the city would move at all.

Seaneh

Turtyturd wrote: »

Just bump the first one OP....no point in dragging up any of the older ones.

Cyclists should have to pay all kinds of tax, especially a we'll hold up buses by cycling in the middle of the bus land because we are w*nkers tax,and we don't understand how traffic lights work tax.

You mean the shared bus and cycle lane?

Why shouldn't cyclists use the middle of the lane?


If you can't pass a cyclist because he is in the middle of the lane, then you cannot safely pass the cyclist while staying in the lane at all, it's that ****ing simple. You are required to give cyclists 1.5meters of space when overtaking them. There is no way in the world a bus can safely overtake a cyclist in a shared lane without exiting the lane and re-entering it.

woodoo

Yes.. pests

HurtLocker

Maybe something small like €5 a year to cycle during rush hour in city's and issue registrations plates to bikes cycling during these hours and streets to report dangerous cycling such as red light breaking.

Seaneh

rolliepoley wrote: »

I think if you want to use a push bike there should be a mandatory chipping system where all push bike users can be identified and as to who owns the said push bike, and also the cost of the bike chip should fall on the owners to help with the maintenance of the push bike lanes.

When the government of this country actually supplies a proper network and system of cycle lanes instead of the joke of a system currently in place, then I'll listen to your argument.