UCD or RCSI?

WoolahUrma

nomoreexams wrote: »

We can change our minds up to 5.00 on Monday. I'm still thinking about changing my mind again. This is just ridiculous. What's your number 1 at the moment?

Its down as rcsi but Im thinking right now that ill be changing to ucd. Ive been swayed by the Uni campus facilities etc. Im not worried about the younger student population or the hectic health sciences building. Im a little unsure still though as i like the sound of the close relationship between the students and faculty. The close atmosphere in rcsi. Im still thinking about that

pc11

I happen to be near Stephens Green right now. Is there any point in popping in? Could I even see much without someone to show me around?

Did anyone contact RCSI in Stephen's Green for a tour? I've seen Sandyford/Blanchardstown.

nomoreexams

WoolahUrma wrote: »

Its down as rcsi but Im thinking right now that ill be changing to ucd. Ive been swayed by the Uni campus facilities etc. Im not worried about the younger student population or the hectic health sciences building. Im a little unsure still though as i like the sound of the close relationship between the students and faculty. The close atmosphere in rcsi. Im still thinking about that

I'm slightly swayed by that too but then come 3rd & 4th year you lose that relationship with the lecturers by the sound of things, I assume mainly because of the bigger class and you're in the hospitals more. It would be nice to have in the first 2 years though.

I'm also slightly swayed by the fact that there sounds to be more support for USMLE in RCSI. I don't know if that's because not too many UCD students have commented on their experiences of USMLE though.

I'm also thinking I'd like to get the hardest 2 years done first which RCSI gems seems to say happens. Where as ucd seems to get harder progressively.

Agggghhhhh frustrating!

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

I'm slightly swayed by that too but then come 3rd & 4th year you lose that relationship with the lecturers by the sound of things, I assume mainly because of the bigger class and you're in the hospitals more. It would be nice to have in the first 2 years though.

I'm also slightly swayed by the fact that there sounds to be more support for USMLE in RCSI. I don't know if that's because not too many UCD students have commented on their experiences of USMLE though.

I'm also thinking I'd like to get the hardest 2 years done first which RCSI gems seems to say happens. Where as ucd seems to get harder progressively.

Agggghhhhh frustrating!

Agghhhh! I know!

Are we even in lectures all that much in 3rd year? Isn't it mostly clinical in hospital rotations?

WoolahUrma

nomoreexams wrote: »

I'm slightly swayed by that too but then come 3rd & 4th year you lose that relationship with the lecturers by the sound of things, I assume mainly because of the bigger class and you're in the hospitals more. It would be nice to have in the first 2 years though.

I'm also slightly swayed by the fact that there sounds to be more support for USMLE in RCSI. I don't know if that's because not too many UCD students have commented on their experiences of USMLE though.

I'm also thinking I'd like to get the hardest 2 years done first which RCSI gems seems to say happens. Where as ucd seems to get harder progressively.

Agggghhhhh frustrating!

All the canadians that go to ucd have to do the usmle as well. The person that i spoke to there told me that they once did extra lectures for usmle prep but dont anymore. They help with the application which is a bitch by all accounts. She said that they believe that the ucd program is comprehensive enough to cover the material required for the usmle but if anyone needs extra help just ask your lecturer. So that sounds fairly ok. As far as i know rcsi dont do any extra lectures, so no difference there.

I saw one person write that you get treated like a "little god" for the first two years in rcsi (visions of mr. burns executive bathroom). This appeals to me big time but both sets of students seem to agree that the little god treatment comes to a sharp end when you go on rotation in third.

WoolahUrma

pc11 wrote: »

Agghhhh! I know!

Are we even in lectures all that much in 3rd year? Isn't it mostly clinical in hospital rotations?

As far as i know lectures are all but finished after second year

nomoreexams

pc11 wrote: »

Agghhhh! I know!

Are we even in lectures all that much in 3rd year? Isn't it mostly clinical in hospital rotations?

There's a lot less lectures by the sounds of things. I'm trying not to let the first 2 years influence me too much because in the grand scheme of things its such a small period of time. The massive elephant in the room for me is the money. I also have commitments in Dublin so I don't know how'd I'd feel in 3rd or 4th if I got sent to a midlands hospital or any of the other non dublin based hospitals.

bluemagpie

If you're really torn go with your gut instinct.

It's highly likely that it will mean that you will go with the same choices that you made originally given that when you first applied you probably went with what you really wanted as you weren't under pressure since you knew you could change your mind!

diverboy83

Couldn't agree more. We want to study medicine, and that is what we will do, irrespective of where we end up. The agony at the moment is arising out of a choice, but the end goal is the same. If we only had a score which would cover us for only one course, then that would have been the end of that and we all, I am certain, would have been delighted to have it as we just want to be doctors. All this other stuff doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

pc11

diverboy83 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. We want to study medicine, and that is what we will do, irrespective of where we end up. The agony at the moment is arising out of a choice, but the end goal is the same. If we only had a score which would cover us for only one course, then that would have been the end of that and we all, I am certain, would have been delighted to have it as we just want to be doctors. All this other stuff doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

Shut up with your logical, rational, common sense!

It's the paralysis of choice alright, just like how I dithered for years as to which camera to buy. It just meant that for years I didn't have a camera! I think we'll all feel better when the decision is made, even if it's made for us just by the deadline expiring.

WoolahUrma

diverboy83 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. We want to study medicine, and that is what we will do, irrespective of where we end up. The agony at the moment is arising out of a choice, but the end goal is the same. If we only had a score which would cover us for only one course, then that would have been the end of that and we all, I am certain, would have been delighted to have it as we just want to be doctors. All this other stuff doesn't really matter at the end of the day.

When i was sitting the exam and afterwards I was preparing myself to resit. If I had enough for UL I would have been delighted. I inclined to agree with you. If you had said to me a few months ago that I would have the chance to study medicine I would have taken your arm off. The choice is a nice problem to have. Its almost like a bit of fun I think to be honest

Biologic

WoolahUrma wrote: »

As far as i know rcsi dont do any extra lectures, so no difference there.

RCSI do. There's a programme delivered by both students who have done well in the USMLE and consultants who specialise in certain areas we may not have covered in the preclinical years. It's delivered twice throughout 2nd year (Sept-Dec, then again from Jan-Arpil I think) and happens on weekends.

House_QC

Bloody Dubliners!

Can't you make my decision easier?

I've had UCD as my first choice from the outset. I really like the sound of RCSI's first two years. But I am concerned by certain reports re: years three and four.

So, from my high chair thousands of miles away, I'm just going to stick with my original preferences:

1. UCD
2. RCSI
3. UCC
4. UL

By the way, for those of you who have been debating between UCC and UL, surely the most important difference is the PBL taught at UL as opposed to the mixed approach at the others? Followed swiftly by the lack of cadavers in anatomy and the fact that Limerick's med school programme is not even recognised as of yet in places like, for example, the USA. The campus sounds great though at UL. It's a pity about the foregoing, however.

Anyway, even if I receive an offer from UCD, it looks increasingly likely I'll have to defer for one year in order to secure the rest of the funds I need for the four-year course. Yes, regrettably, money does matter.

Good luck folks and let us all know which med school is listed as your definitive first preference.


Cheers.

Abby19

pc11 wrote: »

Also, in medicine, there's not the same drive to get firsts and 2:1 like there would be in many undergrads, there is a sense in which middle of the class is just fine, so that would weaken the observed correlation.

Just wondering where you read/heard that?

Wouldn't have thought that at all, especially not now with your centile determining your intern placement and your decile ranking influencing your UKFP placement.
If you are referring to the North Americans, most of whom wish to return home and are working on their USMLEs and Canadian exams, then fair enough.

Having a previous science related degree I would say that it it a lot harder to get the higher grades in the higher years. The courses are so broad and include patient management, biopsychosocial and MDT aspects, and the methods of assessments, ie OSCEs, vivas and clinical exams are very subjective, and you have max 10-20 mins to sell yourself and show how much you know, and you can be dependent on a compliant and cooperating patient.

Only a personal observation, but in my experience and what I see from my classmates there are many more hours work put in to medicine, and it is generally not possible to cram for a week or two and pass exams (which would be possible on other courses based on previous experience).

pc11

Well, I did pop in to Stephen's Green to have a nose around. I couldn't see the anatomy rooms, but I did wander the building a bit. I didn't know there were some sports facilities there, including a basketball court downstairs.

But, nothing I saw was in any way conclusive either way and we're only there a couple of afternoons a week in first year and almost never after that AFAIK, so it didn't make a huge difference.

Still, nice to have a look. I do like to get an idea of a place in advance.

pc11

Abby19 wrote: »

Just wondering where you read/heard that?

Wouldn't have thought that at all, especially not now with your centile determining your intern placement and your decile ranking influencing your UKFP placement.
If you are referring to the North Americans, most of whom wish to return home and are working on their USMLEs and Canadian exams, then fair enough.

Having a previous science related degree I would say that it it a lot harder to get the higher grades in the higher years. The courses are so broad and include patient management, biopsychosocial and MDT aspects, and the methods of assessments, ie OSCEs, vivas and clinical exams are very subjective, and you have max 10-20 mins to sell yourself and show how much you know, and you can be dependent on a compliant and cooperating patient.

Only a personal observation, but in my experience and what I see from my classmates there are many more hours work put in to medicine, and it is generally not possible to cram for a week or two and pass exams (which would be possible on other courses based on previous experience).

Well, it's the impression I get from everything posted here. I never see any mention of top grades here and except for the intern placement, I don't really see any mention of grades at all. I gather that as long as you are not in the bottom 20% of your class or so then the internship is no problem.

Now, I would love to hear more if I have gotten the wrong impression?

Like you, I did a science degree and the grade was really important. If you didn't get a 2:1 you couldn't normally do a PhD and you would not really be able to work in that science. On the other hand, you only need to pass in medicine to be a doctor.

As I say, please do correct me if I'm wrong. I know many med students must be competitive of course, but I just get the the idea that there is not the same approach as in undergrad science, for example.

WoolahUrma

Biologic wrote: »

RCSI do. There's a programme delivered by both students who have done well in the USMLE and consultants who specialise in certain areas we may not have covered in the preclinical years. It's delivered twice throughout 2nd year (Sept-Dec, then again from Jan-Arpil I think) and happens on weekends.

This makes a difference as well. Are there any UCD Gem's on here that have done the usmle? If so, how did you find the process?

BobbyOLGrinds

WoolahUrma wrote: »

This makes a difference as well. Are there any UCD Gem's on here that have done the usmle? If so, how did you find the process?

Painful. The college provided a practice test from Kaplan about half way through the summer to gauge your progress. I didn't sit this as I was a bit too stressed out. There was word of extra classes/tutorials/etc. but this never materialised.

Unless you're dead set on the US, and in which case you'll probably be doing the work on your own anyway, it's not that big a deal. Only a small amount of people do the USMLEs every year anyway.

My advice is not to bother with the USMLE unless you are absolutely dead set on going to the states. It's a painful summer otherwise, and people who didn't sit it seemed to do just as well as those who did.

Biologic

BobbyOLGrinds wrote: »

Unless you're dead set on the US, and in which case you'll probably be doing the work on your own anyway, it's not that big a deal. Only a small amount of people do the USMLEs every year anyway.

My advice is not to bother with the USMLE unless you are absolutely dead set on going to the states. It's a painful summer otherwise, and people who didn't sit it seemed to do just as well as those who did.

Yeah I agree with all of this. The college which may or may not provide extra classes, which may or may not be useful, for an exam you may or may not take really shouldn't sway you at all. The USMLE is an absolute nightmare wherever you go to medical school, and it will just come down to you working your ass off for 10 weeks. I had 2 days off between the USMLE and starting 3rd year. Even though it meant that I knew my stuff pretty well, I was just so knackered that I switched off completely for the first few months of the year, so it ultimately didn't benefit me a whole lot with regards to RCSI exams.

nomoreexams

Just over 24 hours lefts until change of mind expires. Any of my fellow confused gems make up their minds yet?

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

Just over 24 hours lefts until change of mind expires. Any of my fellow confused gems make up their minds yet?

I have had RCSI down #1 all along. I would probably need a strong reason to change now, though money still a worry.

Where are you at?

nomoreexams

UCD. I had RCSI down all along so I really hope I'm doing the right thing. I feel very nervous about the decision. I know everyone says very sensible things on here about both degrees being the same but I still feel very uneasy about it. (When I had RCSI down, I felt equally uneasy about the money)

You sound certain now. That's good, that's the hard part out of the way!

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

UCD. I had RCSI down all along so I really hope I'm doing the right thing. I feel very nervous about the decision. I know everyone says very sensible things on here about both degrees being the same but I still feel very uneasy about it. (When I had RCSI down, I felt equally uneasy about the money)

You sound certain now. That's good, that's the hard part out of the way!

I'm not as certain as I sound, I'm nervous too, though it's definitely RCSI where I'm drawn to. If they had a pool and cost the same money I would be pretty sure. As I have friends working in UCD and I'm a UCD grad, it's not easy to pass that up, but there you go.

Is money the decider for you? If they were the same cost would you have stuck with RCSI?

I'm telling myself that I just need to get creative and try to earn some money over the next 4 years. This should be doable; we're smart, motivated people, many of us with good work experience. Depending on how you look at it, the difference in money is not that big if you can earn anything reasonable at all.

I'm confident that both are excellent, that's true.

Ok, sorry, I'll stop rationalising now!

nomoreexams

Well, that's it, alea iacta est. The last decision has been made, it's out of our hands now. Scarey! Fingers crossed points don't fluctuate.

So UCD won in the end. Now I just have to worry about saving money haha

I dont know about the rest of you but every now and again I have a split second where I think I've genuinely lost the run of myself even considering this.

WoolahUrma

The deed is done
1 UCD
2 RCSI
3 Ul
4UCC

One month and counting to offers

Good luck to all

House_QC

1. UCD
2. RCSI
3. UCC
4. UL

Hope to see you there this year, folks.

Good luck.

pc11

Ok, we've all passed the hurdles of GAMSAT and deciding preferences. But, there are more hurdles. There's getting the loan, and there's the final decision to actually go ahead and accept, to quit work and careers, change our lives and take on this challenge.

Well, the truth is I still have doubts about actually going ahead. I'm older than most of you. I'm worried about my stamina and how enormous a challenge this is. I'm happy that I'm mentally able for the college course, it's the hours later, the chaos in our hospitals, the decade of debt, starting all over in a career at my age and the all-consuming nature of the job that scares me.

Now, I do think being scared is healthy. Nothing worthwhile is easy and I'd worried if someone wasn't daunted by becoming a doctor as I would think they have under-estimated it. That said, I haven't been able to imagine doing anything else for the last year. I am certainly likely to go ahead in the end, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't daunted.

I always felt getting in was the easy part and I think I can do the course alright. It's afterwards I worry about.

How about you? Are you 100% certain of this? If you get the loan are you absolutely definite about pursuing it? No doubts?

nomoreexams

I absolutely have doubts. I spoke to a consultant the other day who begged me not to do it. Not exactly what one wants to hear at this point.

I've left one incredibly stressful and unfulfilling career where there was little or no money attached. I'm worried I'm walking myself into the exact same thing, just a different building and different uniforms.

I'm afraid I won't be able for the course, that I will be pitted against people who are much more intelligent than me & I will be found lacking & in a The Biggest Loser scenario will fall below the yellow line.

I'm afraid I won't be able for the hours. I'm even more afraid I'll be responsible for the death of someone. I'm afraid that my relationship will suffer because I won't have any time to see my partner & that I'll be unbearable to be around at exam time. I'm worried about all things financial. I haven't wanted to do this for years, only the last year!

It's an incredibly terrifying decision to make. I suppose like the RCSI V UCD decision, you just have to go with your gut feeling.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

I absolutely have doubts. I spoke to a consultant the other day who begged me not to do it. Not exactly what one wants to hear at this point.

I've left one incredibly stressful and unfulfilling career where there was little or no money attached. I'm worried I'm walking myself into the exact same thing, just a different building and different uniforms.

I'm afraid I won't be able for the course, that I will be pitted against people who are much more intelligent than me & I will be found lacking & in a The Biggest Loser scenario will fall below the yellow line.

I'm afraid I won't be able for the hours. I'm even more afraid I'll be responsible for the death of someone. I'm afraid that my relationship will suffer because I won't have any time to see my partner & that I'll be unbearable to be around at exam time. I'm worried about all things financial. I haven't wanted to do this for years, only the last year!

It's an incredibly terrifying decision to make. I suppose like the RCSI V UCD decision, you just have to go with your gut feeling.

Fair play for your honesty. The doubt will help us make better decisions. Doubt is the first step to wisdom or something like that. As I say, I would worry for someone who has no doubt at all.

Do you want to say more about what career you left behind? Your description of it isn't very different from what I would say.

What did the consultant say to you?

About the hours, I just keep hoping they will be a little better by the time we get there. But they've been that way for so long, will they ever change?

nomoreexams

pc11 wrote: »

Fair play for your honesty. The doubt will help us make better decisions. Doubt is the first step to wisdom or something like that. As I say, I would worry for someone who has no doubt at all.

Do you want to say more about what career you left behind? Your description of it isn't very different from what I would say.

What did the consultant say to you?

About the hours, I just keep hoping they will be a little better by the time we get there. But they've been that way for so long, will they ever change?

A victim of the recession. No work, no money, the same problem as most professionals these days.

The consultant I have spoken to is probably biased because during her training the conditions were horrendous, she admitted they had improved but are by no means acceptable. She's disillusioned because of the way she's been treated for the last few years and feels that it's just not worth it.

I'm hoping that by the time we'd get through the system things will have changed. I'm realistic though, things may improve slightly but it's unlikely there'll be an overhaul.

I think age increases the Things to Worry About List. I have more responsibilities now than I had when I was 21. I know what it's like to literally not have enough money for dinner so I suppose things like have made me cautious.

I do think though that if you like your job it definitely makes it worthwhile. That's what I'm hoping for anyway!