UCD or RCSI?

pc11

WoolahUrma wrote: »

I was at the tour of UCD and I took a look at the GEM facility out in sandyford.

First off, my opinion my be a bit skewed by the fact that on the UCD tour I met some people and on the rcsi tour I met the security guard and the janitor.

Having seen both it's clear that the choice between the two is really a personal preference decision.

If you want to be really well looked after as an individual then RCSI is for you.
The sandyford facility is for GEP 1 only. It's a shiney new looking place. Everything is very managable size wise, you won't be blown away or distracted by a massive campus, library or student population. The ground floor consists of lecture theatres and some tutorial rooms. The first floor is the canteen which I really liked. Spacious and a nice little kitchen. A few hang out areas on both floors. I would imagine that the set up there lends itself the the class you'll be in becoming very close. The luas is out the front so its a direct line into stephens green. The kicker for me was the parking. There's a numbered space for each student which is off the chain. A close friend is going out with a lecturer in RCSI. The word is that they are told to respond to all student queries within 24 hours. I'm sure that this is not always the case but I would image that your still looking at a more attentive staff than anywhere else. The student is king or queen as I was told.

UCD visiting program consisted of a talk before hand on the course and the admissions policy which was useless to anyone who has researched what they want to do. Might have been worthwhile if you were in fifth year which a few that attended were, I think. The tour was on the ball though. The health sciences building is very nice. The building itself is modern and it's large enough to accomodate all x thousand students but it has a nice compact feel to it. The library looks great but I assume that how well it works comes down to how effective the library police are there. The lecture theatres are a little larger and they allow for an internet uplink to special rooms in the UCD hospitals for people that are not able to make it back to the campus. The mock wards are a nice touch. Very realistic, great equipment and some top class mannequins. Probably no substitute for the real thing but if your going to be on campus its not bad. One guy kept fondleing one of the baby manniquins. They have a functioning lab and facilites for the physios, nurses and all the med people that you will be sharing the building with. They also have little bits of art that point to the origins of medicine in ucd. This brightens the place up a bit but I wouldn't let it swing you. The final part of the tour was the student centre which included the 50m pool. They have a pharmacy, drama soc have a newly built theatre if that's your thing, a cinema, a list of serious clubs and societies the length of me arm and I'm probably leaving out a hell of a lot. Not sure about the parking situation.


The RCSI building is in an industrial estate which I didn't like and how much I didn't like it was thrown into sharp focus having just been out to the belfield campus. The big thing for me now is, where do I want to be for the two years? I can't get the special attention that I'll be getting in RCSI out of my head but If it's coming down to the campus/ facilities then its UCD all the way. I didn't think I'd give a toss about being part of a larger Uni. community but I think that maybe I do having been out there.
On a side note, the weather was perfect so the campus looked great. I've been out to UCD several times and I've never had anything too great to say about the design of the place (austere etc) but, it did have a charisma about it.

So, to finish, I still haven't decided. Although I have more pointed questions now. 1. What are the interactions between the UCD GEMS and staff like? How helpful are they?

Nice write-up, thanks. I agree with most of your take.

Just a couple of things: it's only in Sandyford for 1 year not 2, year 2 is based in Blanchardstown.

I was told by a couple of RCSI staff there that parking is no problem, so hopefully that's the case.

About the industrial park, in case people haven't been there to visit, I'd describe it as more like an upmarket commercial park really, rather than with factories or warehouses, in case people might imagine the worst. Sandyford generally is an upmarket area, so you're not in an out of town wasteland. There are shops and restaurants nearby, the Microsoft headquarters and other tech businesses are nearby, there is an outdoor food market nearby regularly and the Luas is at the door. Once you're inside anyway it doesn't really matter and I personally like the compact, focussed environment that we have to ourselves with kitchen and lounge facilities so we can eat, relax and so on. I found the UCD building to be absolutely chaotic and packed as I was there on a regular college day. I must be getting old, the quieter place was attracting me.

The UCD pool is a selling point alright as I'm a keen swimmer and I think that regular exercise like this will be key to managing the course. I think people can underestimate how important it is to keep up an outside interest and look after yourself.

BobbyOLGrinds

WoolahUrma wrote: »

What are the interactions between the UCD GEMS and staff like? How helpful are they?

It varies depending on the staff involved, but by and large they are excellent. Any time I've contacted a staff member about any difficulties they were quick to respond and were quite helpful.

My only semi-negative experience was asking for exam feedback from a lecturer and I was rebuffed. She told me that if she did it for me that she'd have to do it for everyone. I was annoyed at the time but it made little difference at the end of the day.

I've found that they won't come to you off their own bat, but if you go and talk to them outside of class hours they'll go out of their way to help.

I'm laughing at the idea of the student being King. That all ends pretty sharpish once you step foot in a hospital.

WoolahUrma

BobbyOLGrinds wrote: »

It varies depending on the staff involved, but by and large they are excellent. Any time I've contacted a staff member about any difficulties they were quick to respond and were quite helpful.

My only semi-negative experience was asking for exam feedback from a lecturer and I was rebuffed. She told me that if she did it for me that she'd have to do it for everyone. I was annoyed at the time but it made little difference at the end of the day.

I've found that they won't come to you off their own bat, but if you go and talk to them outside of class hours they'll go out of their way to help.

I'm laughing at the idea of the student being King. That all ends pretty sharpish once you step foot in a hospital.

Thanks for that, yeah, both ucd and rcsi alike seem to get a bit of a dose of it once the rotations begin

WoolahUrma

pc11 wrote: »

Nice write-up, thanks. I agree with most of your take.

Just a couple of things: it's only in Sandyford for 1 year not 2, year 2 is based in Blanchardstown.

I was told by a couple of RCSI staff there that parking is no problem, so hopefully that's the case.

About the industrial park, in case people haven't been there to visit, I'd describe it as more like an upmarket commercial park really, rather than with factories or warehouses, in case people might imagine the worst. Sandyford generally is an upmarket area, so you're not in an out of town wasteland. There are shops and restaurants nearby, the Microsoft headquarters and other tech businesses are nearby, there is an outdoor food market nearby regularly and the Luas is at the door. Once you're inside anyway it doesn't really matter and I personally like the compact, focussed environment that we have to ourselves with kitchen and lounge facilities so we can eat, relax and so on. I found the UCD building to be absolutely chaotic and packed as I was there on a regular college day. I must be getting old, the quieter place was attracting me.

The UCD pool is a selling point alright as I'm a keen swimmer and I think that regular exercise like this will be key to managing the course. I think people can underestimate how important it is to keep up an outside interest and look after yourself.

Yeah, I'm selling a bit short by calling it an industrial estate to be fair. It does have some nice cafes etc there is nice accommodation in the area as well.

WoolahUrma

How are ucd on the usmle? I know that rcsi have someone on staff that helps students with prep etc

pc11

One question I had was about facilities for the UCD students when they are in hospital? RCSI has its own building at Blanchardstown where they have classes, catering and lounge facilities, which is appealing.

Do the UCD students have any such dedicated space in Vincents or the Mater? Are there lockers, showers or space to chill out, make some food and so on?

WoolahUrma

pc11 wrote: »

One question I had was about facilities for the UCD students when they are in hospital? RCSI has its own building at Blanchardstown where they have classes, catering and lounge facilities, which is appealing.

Do the UCD students have any such dedicated space in Vincents or the Mater? Are there lockers, showers or space to chill out, make some food and so on?

I just e mailed to ask about this.

I rang about the usmle earlier and the word is that they believe that they're med program is comprehensive which i guess means that there are no extra tutorials etc before sitting the test. That said, they did say that if you have having any trouble with a particular area, lecturers are happy to help. Also, they help with all the paper work.

Parking is first come, first served but if you're doing med you'll probably be there early anyway. However, there is some talk about some kind of a fee coming in but as you can imagine both staff and the union are up in arms about this so it probably will not happen, I'm told.

I'm trying to find out how gem and gep do compared to the LC entrants in their respective cohorts. If it turns out that one set do better than the other, then that's obviously big news but I'm getting nowhere with the colleges. I don't suppose that this info can be found elsewhere?

House_QC

So which is it then? UCD or RCSI?

pc11

Another question:

I know that in UCD only 3rd and 4th year count towards the final grade, whereas RCSI award 10% from year 2 as well.

But, in years 1 and 2 do they both tell you where you rank in the class with each exam/PBL/MCQ or at least give you some idea of how you are doing relative to the class and to what is expected? It's not so much about being competitive, but it would be good to have feedback as to how you are doing and to see whether more study is needed and so on.

Michael Scofield

In UCD, most lecturers give a graph of grade distributions after mid terms and stuff, or at least a class average to give you an idea of where you stand relative to everyone else.

beardedmaster

Michael Scofield wrote: »

In UCD, most lecturers give a graph of grade distributions after mid terms and stuff, or at least a class average to give you an idea of where you stand relative to everyone else.

Only has happened once with me, after doing 38 modules, with midterms in many of them.

Michael Scofield

beardedmaster wrote: »

Only has happened once with me, after doing 38 modules, with midterms in many of them.

Strange, i'd say we got class averages in 90% of the exams we did last year

pc11

Michael Scofield wrote: »

Strange, i'd say we got class averages in 90% of the exams we did last year

Are you 2 talking about the same thing? Do you mean in GEM or in undergrad?

nomoreexams

Where did you guys find that the fees were the same as last year in UCD? Their website is still saying 2012/2013 and that fees haven't been decided yet for 2013/2014.

https://myucd.ucd.ie/admission/med_graduate.ezc
http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/fees/undergraduate2012.html

Michael Scofield

pc11 wrote: »

Are you 2 talking about the same thing? Do you mean in GEM or in undergrad?

I have no idea, I can only speak for myself (and the rest of my class) and we (just finished GEM1) were given a class average after almost all of our mid terms last year. I don't think we were given averages after our end of year/end of semester exams but the mid terms give you an idea of where you stand.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

Where did you guys find that the fees were the same as last year in UCD? Their website is still saying 2012/2013 and that fees haven't been decided yet for 2013/2014.

https://myucd.ucd.ie/admission/med_graduate.ezc
http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/fees/undergraduate2012.html

http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/fees/undergraduate2013.html

There's also a link on the left on the 2nd page you posted to "Fees 2013/14".

BobbyOLGrinds

WoolahUrma wrote: »

I'm trying to find out how gem and gep do compared to the LC entrants in their respective cohorts. If it turns out that one set do better than the other, then that's obviously big news but I'm getting nowhere with the colleges. I don't suppose that this info can be found elsewhere?

I'd doubt there's a significant difference between the two. I certainly never found what entrant method you chose to correlate with performance. Some of the best and worst were GEMs, same with undergrads.

To look at it from another angle, why does it matter to you? Do you think you'll automatically do better or worse because of being a GEM? Hard work is what separates people out, consistent hard work across the whole course. Some people get unlucky in one or two exams, myself included, but overall the marks are pretty representative.

That's not to say that your performance as a doctor is linked to your score in exams though. Just to throw the rest of my spanners in.

pc11

BobbyOLGrinds wrote: »

I'd doubt there's a significant difference between the two. I certainly never found what entrant method you chose to correlate with performance. Some of the best and worst were GEMs, same with undergrads.

To look at it from another angle, why does it matter to you? Do you think you'll automatically do better or worse because of being a GEM? Hard work is what separates people out, consistent hard work across the whole course. Some people get unlucky in one or two exams, myself included, but overall the marks are pretty representative.

That's not to say that your performance as a doctor is linked to your score in exams though. Just to throw the rest of my spanners in.

Bobby, as a new UCD grad, can you answer this question I had?

One question I had was about facilities for the UCD students when they are in hospital? RCSI has its own building at Blanchardstown where they have classes, catering and lounge facilities, which is appealing.

Do the UCD students have any such dedicated space in Vincents or the Mater? Are there lockers, showers or space to chill out, make some food and so on?

nomoreexams

Ah, I see, stupidly I was looking at graduate instead of undergraduate. Thank you. I was panicking. RCSI got back to me:

"RCSI have no plans to increase the fees but the Capitation Grant may increase and the NDP grant may be reduced as has happened in previous years. Both of these decisions are made by the Government through the HEA."

I don't see why the capitation grant and NDP would make any distinction between ucd and RCSI so surely if its the same in ucd it'll be the same for RCSI.

pc11

nomoreexams wrote: »

Ah, I see, stupidly I was looking at graduate instead of undergraduate. Thank you. I was panicking. RCSI got back to me:

"RCSI have no plans to increase the fees but the Capitation Grant may increase and the NDP grant may be reduced as has happened in previous years. Both of these decisions are made by the Government through the HEA."

I don't see why the capitation grant and NDP would make any distinction between ucd and RCSI so surely if its the same in ucd it'll be the same for RCSI.

Wow, I was just about to phone them. Who got back to you?

I presume they meant "the capitation fee may increase" rather than capitation "grant".

As I posted earlier, the HEA hasn't met to decide yet, so I still don't know how UCD and UL were able to decide the fees to be charged to students but RCSI can't. You're right, the grant from HEA is the same for all colleges. I'm not sure about the capitation fee, but I presume that's also the same everywhere?

I spoke to BOI Stephens Green today. They have no info on RCSI fees yet either, but she agreed it was very unfair to not know the fees when applying. She said she doesn't expect the BOI loan amount/terms to change but that's not definite.

One new piece of info I got today was that the loan guarantor needs to be a blood relative, this was news to me!

nomoreexams

Wow that's a harsh term!

I'd to take a double take when I saw the word grant, she must have ment fee. It was "admissions" that replied.

BobbyOLGrinds

pc11 wrote: »

Bobby, as a new UCD grad, can you answer this question I had?

Sure, sorry I must have missed it while I was reading through.

There is dedicated space in both hospitals, though to not to the extent of a separate building.

I was a v-bird so I can't speak to what the Mater is like but I'll give you the rundown on vinnies.

You have the Res Room where you have a fridge, microwave, tea and milk. Coffee is curiously not provided by the hospital but you can bring your own, something I did over the years. There's plenty of seating and space for your clothes/etc. It doesn't seem like much but I never had a problem leaving stuff there or going out for a night out straight from the hospital.

There are showers upstairs in the theatre changing rooms that are rarely in use. You'll see them used by cyclists in the morning or from surgeons/nurses/porters finishing up. Provided you're not making a huge load of noise or traipsing in with a debs dress over your arm, you should be fine.

Just saw you asked about lockers. There are individual lockers in both hospitals. The mater are over in the Catherine MacAuley building, and the vinnies ones are underground. I never saw the need for a locker, the res room seemed to do just fine for leaving stuff. Mind you, some people did have things stolen from there. YMMV but over the years I left tons of things there including my full set of motorbike gear and nothing was touched. As I said though, YMMV.

In the end, there was always enough space for everyone and I never felt as if I couldn't bring something in or clean myself up in the hospital.

beardedmaster

pc11 wrote: »

Are you 2 talking about the same thing? Do you mean in GEM or in undergrad?

Sorry! Ignore my previous post, it was irrelevant.

WoolahUrma

BobbyOLGrinds wrote: »

I'd doubt there's a significant difference between the two. I certainly never found what entrant method you chose to correlate with performance. Some of the best and worst were GEMs, same with undergrads.

To look at it from another angle, why does it matter to you? Do you think you'll automatically do better or worse because of being a GEM? Hard work is what separates people out, consistent hard work across the whole course. Some people get unlucky in one or two exams, myself included, but overall the marks are pretty representative.

That's not to say that your performance as a doctor is linked to your score in exams though. Just to throw the rest of my spanners in.

Well I'm trying to decide between the two Dublin places. If one produces gem students that compare more favourably to the LC in the final rankings then I would read that as one college preparing their gems a like better.

That said, I'm going through the fine detail now, almost for my own amusement. There's nothing in it.

pc11

There was some talk about visiting RCSI at Stephen's Green. Did anyone do this? Did you just wander in and look around or did you arrange to get a tour? Is there any point to doing this? We wouldn't actually be there all that much. I visisted Sandyford and Blanchardstown and it was well worthwhile IMO.

But, if it's worthwhile to see Stephen's Green I will try to visit this Friday. Anyone want to join me?

WoolahUrma

pc11 wrote: »

There was some talk about visiting RCSI at Stephen's Green. Did anyone do this? Did you just wander in and look around or did you arrange to get a tour? Is there any point to doing this? We wouldn't actually be there all that much. I visisted Sandyford and Blanchardstown and it was well worthwhile IMO.

But, if it's worthwhile to see Stephen's Green I will try to visit this Friday. Anyone want to join me?

What's blanch like?

pc11

WoolahUrma wrote: »

What's blanch like?

Very like Sandyford really. Dedicated building, classrooms, kitchen, lounge, lockers etc. Also lots of parking. It's right beside the hospital.

Did you go to Stephen's Green? Think you were talking about it?

WoolahUrma

pc11 wrote: »

Very like Sandyford really. Dedicated building, classrooms, kitchen, lounge, lockers etc. Also lots of parking. It's right beside the hospital.

Did you go to Stephen's Green? Think you were talking about it?

I ment to but I did not. Don't think I'll get the chance either as I'm not in Dublin before the cut off

diverboy83

Does anyone know what the on campus accommodation is like in UCD? They wouldn't let me look around as they are all fully occupied...

DeadEight

diverboy83 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the on campus accommodation is like in UCD?

Grim.