Shatter insists Wallace has no credibility on penalty points

mikom

For Paws wrote: »

Say you are stopped for an offence under the Road Traffic Act and the Garda concerned decides to use his discretion by warning you and not initiating a prosecution.
Say one month passes and a different Garda stops you for the same offence, and unaware of the previous incident because it was not recorded, decides to use his discretion.
Say another month passes and yet another Garda etc etc etc

That is why the use of discretion is recorded.

How was the use of "discretion" recorded in the case of Wallace and the guards pulling up next to him at the lights.
Was his name taken, id checked, and noted............?
Was it hell.

This "discretion" that you speak of is a long way from a superior officer quashing the penalty awarded by a lesser officer.

mikehammer67

discretion recorded?

really?

Ash.J.Williams

For Paws wrote: »

Say you are stopped for an offence under the Road Traffic Act and the Garda concerned decides to use his discretion by warning you and not initiating a prosecution.
Say one month passes and a different Garda stops you for the same offence, and unaware of the previous incident because it was not recorded, decides to use his discretion.
Say another month passes and yet another Garda etc etc etc

That is why the use of discretion is recorded.

My name has never been taken when discretion was applied, therefore it could not be proven i was the driver, unless they summon every cop that has stopped me to court.

mikom

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

My name has never been taken when discretion was applied, therefore it could not be proven i was the driver, unless they summon every cop that has stopped me to court.

Stick on a long blond wig and a pink polo top next time.
They can "record" it as Wallace and whisper it to Shatter.

Wildlife Actor

For Paws wrote: »

The Commissioner has identified himself as the person who informed the Minister, as per The Garda Siochana Act - 41.1(b)

What's happening now is that Shatter is trying to distance himself from the process whereby this item came to his attention. "I don't know how the Commissioner found out (and I'm not going to ask him!)" "The Commissioner is required to report "significant developments that might reasonably be expected to affect adversely public confidence in the Garda Síochána" (and that's whatever he and I want it to be, including stifling dissent)."

But the fact is: Shatter decided to use the information on Prime Time. Therefore he owns the whole process and he can't disavow the bits he doesn't like just because he's exposed as having used the Gardai for political objectives.

Of course, the obtaining and dissemination of that information about Wallace by the Commissioner is now itself a "significant development that might reasonably be expected to affect adversely public confidence in the Garda Síochána." So the Commissioner is obliged to report on that to Shatter. So Shatter can't hide behind "I don't know how the Commissioner found out" mantra any more. Time for another section 41 briefing.

But it looks like, for the want of a decent opposition, he's scraped out of it.

Cody Pomeray

For Paws wrote: »

The Commissioner has identified himself as the person who informed the Minister, as per The Garda Siochana Act - 41.1(b)

That's not a problem.

The Commissioner is entitled to raise the matter with the Minister for Justice.

What I am saying is that if the Commissioner, or any Garda, or any official within the civil service had decided to unilaterlly release this same information, the Commissioner, or Garda, or Civil Servant could be found guilty of an offence under the Official Secrets Act 1963, under which act confidential Garda information is an official secret.

For Paws wrote: »

What does this mean ?

Vigilante reprisals by a Minister for Justice are not a legitimate response to perceived misbehaviours.

bmaxi

For Paws wrote: »

Whereas you would never ride roughshod over those whom you consider to be political lackeys and arrogant pricks :rolleyes:

Well I've been around for quite a while and haven't been accused of that yet however I'm sure your political masters will be pleased with your showing true blue FG pedigree when it comes to making judgment calls.

Weevil

The apology that isn't-

If Deputy Wallace feels that I did him some personal wrong by mentioning it, then I have no problem in saying I am sorry,”

School children cross the country will recognise this sneaky ploy:

Teacher-'Alan, apologise to Mick for stabbing him with your pencil'

Alan- 'I will when he asks me to!'

Going Forward

For Paws wrote: »

Are we, the public, better off knowing that Wallace is a hypocrite ?

Had Shatter have kept the information to himself because he thought he could not disclose it, would we be better off ?

If I meet Wallace driving on the road I'll definitely be more careful, as he may be holding a mobile phone.

Floppybits

Going Forward wrote: »

If I meet Wallace driving on the road I'll definitely be more careful, as he may be holding a mobile phone.

If you do meet Wallace coming down the road then you will need to be more careful and not do anything that might get you a talking too from the Garda that will be following Mick around or you could find your name coming in a meeting between the Minister Shatter and his mate the AGS Commissioner.

Ash.J.Williams

anyway this week we learned that fine gale will never admit to being wrong, and when confronted on two different tv channels by various legal experts will respond with the same learned off by heart answers.

Going Forward

For Paws wrote: »

Say you are stopped for an offence under the Road Traffic Act and the Garda concerned decides to use his discretion by warning you and not initiating a prosecution.
Say one month passes and a different Garda stops you for the same offence, and unaware of the previous incident because it was not recorded, decides to use his discretion.
Say another month passes and yet another Garda etc etc etc

That is why the use of discretion is recorded.

"So gentlemen, what do we have on this Wallace character?

Well Minister, the only thing we have in his dossier is that he was spoken to in relation to using his phone whilst driving.

I know it's not much but you could broadcast it to the nation on Prime Time, in that voice of yours, yes the affected one, it'll surely make Wallace look a bit thick.

What could possibly go wrong?"

hatrickpatrick

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

anyway this week we learned that fine gale will never admit to being wrong, and when confronted on two different tv channels by various legal experts will respond with the same learned off by heart answers.

This is (a) not remotely new, and (b) not limited to any one particular party. It's endemic in our political culture and always has been I'm afraid - in fact I'm honestly struggling to think of a single party with a seat in Dail Eireann today which is not guilty of this exact behavior. FF are probably the worst example, clinging to some fantasy that the economic meltdown isn't actually their fault. Labour - far too many examples to list here, Eamonn Gilmore's lies over Lisbon, promises over education etc come irresistibly to mind. Sinn Fein - I don't even need to say anything here I feel. Greens? Oh wait, the Greens actually don't have any seats anymore. Sorry about that. The ULA? They've never actually been in government, only in opposition, so they've never had the opportunity to f*ck up in this manner, but I personally don't believe for a second that they'd be much better.

tl;dr version - We really are f*cked when it comes to politics in this country

Floppybits

Jaysus they really are out to get Mick, someone at the independant has dug up a story were Mick was award 120,000 euros (100,000 in old money) back in 2000 for wrongful arrest. Someone feathers are deffinately ruffled.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/wallace-got-120k-in-garda-arrest-claim-29289689.html

Sully

Floppybits wrote: »

Jaysus they really are out to get Mick, someone at the independant has dug up a story were Mick was award 120,000 euros (100,000 in old money) back in 2000 for wrongful arrest. Someone feathers are deffinately ruffled.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/wallace-got-120k-in-garda-arrest-claim-29289689.html

Yeah spotted that this morning. Still not sure what exactly the Indo are getting at. A bit like the story on Ming going on a 'working holiday' and requesting he be marked in on the Dail role while out of the country for the few days.

Floppybits

Sully wrote: »

Yeah spotted that this morning. Still not sure what exactly the Indo are getting at. A bit like the story on Ming going on a 'working holiday' and requesting he be marked in on the Dail role while out of the country for the few days.

All it highlights to me is that we have no independant media in this country. They are all in the pockets of which ever party is in government. It is very evident in the soft interviews they have with politicians and it is pretty sickening to see the media who are suppose to be watch dogs let politicians off the hook time and time again.

As much as the attack in London is horrific. I bet there are some down in FG HQ thanking their lucky stars that it happened as it knocks this mess with Shatter and the whole penalty points off the front pages.

bmaxi

Another non-story aimed at distracting public attention, you'd think FG had no skeletons in their closet. They never had Ministers who were tax evaders or who sold the public out to developers or Ministers who hounded terminally ill people to their graves. All pure as the driven snow.
The Labour Party must be lapping all this up, it takes the heat off them for a while and almost guarantees Wallace's re-election next time around which is bound to be at the expense of one of their blue eyed boys.

Sierra Oscar

Mattie McGrath has claimed in the Dáil during leaders questions that the Minister was at the receiving end of Garda discretion during 2011. McGrath was hinting that the Minister was requested to provide a sample for a breathalyser, and became agitated when requested to do so.

Hootanany

Was his wife done for DD not so long ago.

Going Forward

The Senator's husband barely conceals his disdain for Wallace.

M three

Floppybits wrote: »

All it highlights to me is that we have no independant media in this country. They are all in the pockets of which ever party is in government. It is very evident in the soft interviews they have with politicians and it is pretty sickening to see the media who are suppose to be watch dogs let politicians off the hook time and time again.

As much as the attack in London is horrific. I bet there are some down in FG HQ thanking their lucky stars that it happened as it knocks this mess with Shatter and the whole penalty points off the front pages.

Correct.
The Irish independent is nothing more than the pr department of the government. It's a useless crap rag.
Irish times with Miriam lord, Conor Lally and others turning into a pile of rubbish too

Floppybits

Pat Kenny now playing what Mattie McGrath said in the Dail this morning of some incident with Shatter and a garda checkpoint?

Going Forward

Floppybits wrote: »

Pat Kenny now playing what Mattie McGrath said in the Dail this morning of some incident with Shatter and a garda checkpoint?

And subsequent radio bulletins on RTE virtually ignoring the matter.......very strange media.

Cody Pomeray

Going Forward wrote: »

The Senator's husband barely conceals his disdain for Wallace.

Well that article was writter by Paul Williams. Admittedly it is decorated with baubles of political contempt, which does make it read like a Fionnán Sheahan article.

mikom

Floppybits wrote: »

Jaysus they really are out to get Mick, someone at the independant has dug up a story were Mick was award 120,000 euros (100,000 in old money) back in 2000 for wrongful arrest. Someone feathers are deffinately ruffled.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/wallace-got-120k-in-garda-arrest-claim-29289689.html

Absolute muck raking.
Half wits reading the "piece" are being fed choice lines to sway them to the thinking of "Shatter-good.... Wallace-bad".

he sued the then Minister for Justice and Garda Commissioner for wrongful arrest

Mr Wallace, who was then a successful multi-millionaire developer,

It emerged last night that the tax cheat,

. It was further claimed that a scuffle ensued when Mr Wallace resisted the garda's attempt to arrest him.

Shur even a quick scan of the headline "Wallace got €120k in garda arrest claim", would lead most to think this is the "on the phone stopped at traffic lights incident" being put to bed, with wallace riding off into the sunset with 120k.

Media watchdogs............. more like media lapdogs.

mikehammer67

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Mattie McGrath has claimed in the Dáil during leaders questions that the Minister was at the receiving end of Garda discretion during 2011. McGrath was hinting that the Minister was requested to provide a sample for a breathalyser, and became agitated when requested to do so.

lol if this is true

he'll have to resign

Going Forward

mikehammer67 wrote: »

lol if this is true

he'll have to resign

FF lite for sure.

Sir Alan won't be best pleased.

this is just like the old days, boys o boys.

copacetic

So Clare Daly rightly handcuffed and brought to station for not giving a breath sample.

Shatter waved on his way after failing to give a breath sample.

That's beyond what Garda discretion should allow for surely?

copacetic

copacetic wrote: »

So Clare Daly rightly handcuffed and brought to station for not giving a breath sample.

Shatter waved on his way after failing to give a breath sample.

That's beyond what Garda discretion should allow for surely?

The difference is that Clare Daly HAD drink taken - admittedly she was under the limit.

copacetic

Deleted User wrote: »

The difference is that Clare Daly HAD drink taken - admittedly she was under the limit.

No, the difference is that we know whether she had or not because she was (rightly) handcuffed, brought to station and tested and we know the results.

Shatter could have had drink taken and been under/over limit, but we will never know because he was sent on his way after failing to provide a sample and claiming to be on his way home from the Dail. He was careful not to give the date so that cant be checked.