Hawkeye

iDave

What will it NOT do?
- Does NOT detect goals
- Does NOT cover playing rule infringements e.g. Square Ball
- Does NOT involve a TMO (Television Match Official)

What WILL it do?
- Covers Gaelic Football and Hurling
- Detects points only

How does it work?
- Eight high speed cameras
- Ball position triangulated using 4 cameras covering each end
- Height: Up to 26metres i.e. maximum height of goal posts (13m) and a further 13m on a virtual basis.
- Width: Ball is tracked up to 4 metres outside of each post on a virtual basis.
- Where there is any contact between the ball and the virtual post the shot will register as a 'miss' i.e. wide.
- This is per the Playing Rules: Rule 3 - Scores: "A point is scored when the ball is played over the crossbar between the posts by either team".
- Ball and posts both tracked in real time
- Automated decision made within one second

Primary Protocol
- Umpire makes a 'box' signal with his hands to indicate to the Referee that a request for a Hawk-Eye review is being sought
- Referee seeks Hawk-Eye review via communication system and makes 'box' signal with his hand
- The Hawk-Eye replay is shown on the Big Screen
- Referee confirms Hawk-Eye decision and indicates and awards either a 'point' or a miss i.e. a wide or a '45/'65. Umpire signals the decision.

Communicating The Decision
- Virtual Reality (VR) replay of point
- On Big Screen
- On TV

What happens if Umpire does not make a decision?

Where Umpire does not indicate that a point has been scored and the play continues:
- Review Official communicates to Referee that a Hawk-Eye review is necessary
- Referee stops play
- Referee makes a 'box' signal with his hands to seek Hawk-Eye review
- The Hawk-Eye replay is shown on the Big Screen
- Referee confirms Hawk-Eye decision and awards a 'point'. Umpire signals the decision.

What happens if Referee seeks Hawk-Eye review of an Umpire decision?

Where Umpire makes an incorrect decision regarding a 'point' or 'wide': Umpire makes incorrect decision (i.e. 'point' or 'wide')
- Review Official communicates to Referee that a Hawk-Eye review is necessary
- Referee makes a 'box' signal with his hands to seek Hawk-Eye review
- The Hawk-Eye replay is shown on the Big Screen
- Referee confirms Hawk-Eye decision and makes the appropriate decision. Umpire signals that decision.

Back-up Communication

Unavailability of Big Screen
- Where the Big Screen is unavailable all decision will be announced to spectators via the PA system
- Where the games is televised the decision will be shown on TV despite the unavailability of the Big Screen and confirmed with the match officials

Hawk-Eye data unavailable
- If for any reason the Hawk-Eye result is unavailable, the final decision of 'point' or 'wide' will be made by the match officials
- An appropriate graphic indicating same will appear on the Big Screen

Heres the specs. The big ommission is it is for points only and is no use for contentious goal decisions which seems odd. Wonder what the reasons for this are.

bruschi

iDave wrote: »

Heres the specs. The big ommission is it is for points only and is no use for contentious goal decisions which seems odd. Wonder what the reasons for this are.

because those are refereeing decisions, not whether a ball crossed the line or not that they are specificly talking about.

Everyone went on about goal line technology after the famous Joe Sheridan Louth game incident, but hawk eye would still not have come to any other decision. That was up to a referee, who made the wrong call. The only technology that would have helped there would be a replay assistant like in rugby/American Football/Aussie Rules etc type scenario

Saying all that, it should still be able to tell whether the ball crossed the line for goals, ie when a defender makes a last gasp effort to keep it out.

iDave

bruschi wrote: »

because those are refereeing decisions, not whether a ball crossed the line or not that they are specificly talking about.

Everyone went on about goal line technology after the famous Joe Sheridan Louth game incident, but hawk eye would still not have come to any other decision. That was up to a referee, who made the wrong call. The only technology that would have helped there would be a replay assistant like in rugby/American Football/Aussie Rules etc type scenario

Saying all that, it should still be able to tell whether the ball crossed the line for goals, ie when a defender makes a last gasp effort to keep it out.

Yeah I cant understand myself why it cant be used for goal decisions like you outlined in the last sentence. I knew Sludden-gate like scenarios wouldnt be catered for. In those circumstances a TMO would be more useful. Actually the questions is, would a TMO not be better all round.
Its a step in the right direction anyway, if it works perhaps over time technology and video evidence can be expanded.

LOI Stats

Never thought I'd see the GAA embracing technology such as this before FIFA/UEFA, even with the latter being complete dinosaurs.

Fairplay to them. Are they still hoping for it to be cost-neutral?

iDave

Specsavers are sponsoring it but not sure if that makes it cost neutral

bruschi

LOI Stats wrote: »

Never thought I'd see the GAA embracing technology such as this before FIFA/UEFA, even with the latter being complete dinosaurs.

Fairplay to them. Are they still hoping for it to be cost-neutral?

specsavers are the main sponsor as part of it, but they havent said what costs are involved. I remember hearing about €2m a while back, but it was all pure speculation. They have said they wont be releasing details of costs or sponsorship on it.

castletownman

Seeing as it's exclusive to Croke Park, it's almost guaranteed that some team will be robbed by a contentious point that is/isn't given at some other provincial ground in this year's championship!

LOI Stats

Have they rules it's use in all inter-county grounds or is that something that will be looked into in the future?

Quite costly I'd imagine. Unsure if the advertising revenue is there to cover all grounds.

unknown13

It is only covering points for the moment, which is a bit stupid. You'd think if they were going to use hawkeye at all they would include goals aswell. The GAA can fund it for Croke Park. Wait and see a contentious goal is bound to happen in Croke Park this year.

theoneeyedman

unknown13 wrote: »

It is only covering points for the moment, which is a bit stupid. You'd think if they were going to use hawkeye at all they would include goals aswell. The GAA can fund it for Croke Park. Wait and see a contentious goal is bound to happen in Croke Park this year.

They said today at launch there were no contentious goal incidents in last 3 years in which it would have helped, hence no need for it ....

tayto lover

It should also cover disputes like whether a ball has crossed the line or not.
Looks like cheap-skating.

Kerrydude1981

harpsman

load o crap

MrJoeSoap

harpsman wrote: »

load o crap

Explain? I think it looks great and does exactly the job it is supposed to do.

LOI Stats

harpsman wrote: »

load o crap

Care to volunteer a reason?

Hibbeler

Looks good, don't see them being able to expand this system to more than a few other grounds however

harpsman

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Explain? I think it looks great and does exactly the job it is supposed to do.

For starters disputed points are rare enough in Croke Park-when they do happen it tends to be in provincial grounds w shorter posts.
Secondly im a bit dubious about the technology-i can see how it works in cricket w every ball going more or less parallel with the stumps but im not convinced bout it in tennis-it looks like some geezer with an amstrad making it up-why dont they show a real replay w hawkeye technology like they do in cricket.
Personaaly id prefer if gaa and fifa just went with some sort of appeal system w video replay like the cricket(again) instead of spending alot of money on something that might very occasionally help in a decision.

ps who decides when hawkeye needed?

Kerrydude1981

harpsman wrote: »

For starters disputed points are rare enough in Croke Park-when they do happen it tends to be in provincial grounds w shorter posts.
Secondly im a bit dubious about the technology-i can see how it works in cricket w every ball going more or less parallel with the stumps but im not convinced bout it in tennis-it looks like some geezer with an amstrad making it up-why dont they show a real replay w hawkeye technology like they do in cricket.
Personaaly id prefer if gaa and fifa just went with some sort of appeal system w video replay like the cricket(again) instead of spending alot of money on something that might very occasionally help in a decision.

ps who decides when hawkeye needed?

Surely that is the refs call like in the rugby to settle disputed scores

LOI Stats

harpsman wrote: »

ps who decides when hawkeye needed?

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Surely that is the refs call like in the rugby to settle disputed scores

The umpire signals to the ref, making that box signal like the rugby refs do.

The ref then speaks to the official on the sideline (and makes the box signal) to check it. There will be no dedicated TMO or anything.

The ref can overrule the umpire and call for hawkeye also.

Evil_Clown

FAQ for hawkeye from todays indo:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/the-what-ifs-of-hawkeyel

10 QUESTIONS FOR HAWK-EYE

1. What if an umpire is unsure about a point or a wide?

He will signal that he wants it to be reviewed by Hawk-Eye.

2. What if an umpire signals a wide or a point which Hawk-Eye shows is an incorrect call?

The system's operative will bring it to the referee's attention that an error has been made.

3. What if the ball is higher than the goalposts? Will Hawk-Eye apply?

Yes. Hawk-Eye can detect whether the ball is inside or outside a virtual post extending for a further 13 metres above the top of the goalposts. If the ball is higher than that (26 metres in all, as the Croke Park posts are also 13 metres), the umpires will decide on whether or not it's a point. It's very rare for the ball to be higher than 13 metres above the top of the posts.

4. What if the ball 'touches' the virtual post? Will a point be awarded?

No. Any contact with the virtual post will be registered as a wide.

5. What if it's a windy day when the top of the posts can sway by anything up to a metre? How will that impact on the virtual posts?

Hawk-Eye will operate on the basis that it's a calm day and the posts are perfectly straight.

6. What if there's a dispute over a goal, square ball or any other issue in the general vicinity of the posts?

Hawk-Eye will be closed for business. It's a point detection system only.

7. What if a goalkeeper (this is more likely to apply to hurling than football) reaches behind the crossbar and brings the ball back into play, thus preventing a point?

If the umpires are unsure, they can call on Hawk-Eye.

8. What if a referee wants to over-rule Hawk-Eye for some reason?

He can still do so, as he has ultimate authority. However, it's very unlikely that a referee will take on technology.

9. What if there are complaints that delays caused by Hawk-Eye reviews weren't included in stoppage-time?

The GAA and Hawk-Eye providers are insisting that it can all be done very quickly and thus regarded as part of playing time rather than stoppage-time.

10. What if Hawk-Eye is regarded as a success in Croke Park? Will it spread its wings and set up home at other venues too?

The GAA will decide on that at the end of the two-year experimental phase in Croke Park.

bruschi

What if the ball 'touches' the virtual post? Will a point be awarded?

No. Any contact with the virtual post will be registered as a wide


I think this is wrong. I am nearly sure that the GAA rules say if the ball goes over the top of the post, it is considered a point. So they are saying if that happens here, it will be a wide.

unknown13

Has anything been said about the use in the League matches. Dublin obviously play their home games in Croke park but what is the situation with that.

Hidalgo

harpsman wrote: »

For starters disputed points are rare enough in Croke Park-when they do happen it tends to be in provincial grounds w shorter posts.
Secondly im a bit dubious about the technology-i can see how it works in cricket w every ball going more or less parallel with the stumps but im not convinced bout it in tennis-it looks like some geezer with an amstrad making it up-why dont they show a real replay w hawkeye technology like they do in cricket.
Personaaly id prefer if gaa and fifa just went with some sort of appeal system w video replay like the cricket(again) instead of spending alot of money on something that might very occasionally help in a decision.

ps who decides when hawkeye needed?

An appeal system would be good but could easily be of little use V an advantage of Hawkeye.
If its a difficult call where the ball has gone well over the top of the post, using video may not be conclusive. Some of the decisions given as points or wides by umpires aren't conclusive when shown on TV replays.
If the upright is 25m high and the ball goes over at 30-32m high, very difficult to judge whether it would have gone inside or outside

harpsman

Hidalgo wrote: »

An appeal system would be good but could easily be of little use V an advantage of Hawkeye.
If its a difficult call where the ball has gone well over the top of the post, using video may not be conclusive. Some of the decisions given as points or wides by umpires aren't conclusive when shown on TV replays.
If the upright is 25m high and the ball goes over at 30-32m high, very difficult to judge whether it would have gone inside or outside

No, i meant an appeal of any incident-say 3 per team per match.Not just disputed points

Grudaire

bruschi wrote: »

What if the ball 'touches' the virtual post? Will a point be awarded?

No. Any contact with the virtual post will be registered as a wide


I think this is wrong. I am nearly sure that the GAA rules say if the ball goes over the top of the post, it is considered a point. So they are saying if that happens here, it will be a wide.

Common mistake; As per the playing rules:

A point is scored when the ball is played over the crossbar between the posts by either team

Referees are taught that over the post = wide.

MrJoeSoap

harpsman wrote: »

For starters disputed points are rare enough in Croke Park-when they do happen it tends to be in provincial grounds w shorter posts.

There was one as recently in the drawn Hurling final last year. It didn't draw a lot of post-match attention as it was early in the game but it was pointed out in commentary. Could have been the difference between winning and losing an All Ireland.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBx7ZsjziHQ

11 mins 7 seconds in.

bruschi

Cliste wrote: »

Common mistake; As per the playing rules:



Referees are taught that over the post = wide.

yeah fair enough. I was nearly sure though for some underage game I was involved with when the posts are a lot shorter that the ref was instructed that if it went directly over the post it was a point. This could have been a while back though, so it was either wrong, or changed.

Hidalgo

harpsman wrote: »

No, i meant an appeal of any incident-say 3 per team per match.Not just disputed points

A la NFL. There the coach has the option to throw a flag if he wants a play reviewed.
That's a type of system that could be bought into many sports, GAA and soccer for starters.
Even with an appeal system, it still might not be bomb proof for efforts that are borderline and have gone well over the height of the post.

An appeal system would however be helpful however in examining whether the ball crossed the line for a goal, square balls, whether it should be a 45/65 or kick/puck out

InchicoreDude

A lot of players (particularly goalkeepers)in recent years tend to claim that the ball is wide when it is a point. My worry is that a player claiming it is wide will put doubt into the umpires mind about his decision. Consequently, He will go to hawkeye to be safe and this could lead to hawkeye being over used..... Hopefully it will not happen.

Hulk Hands

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

There was one as recently in the drawn Hurling final last year. It didn't draw a lot of post-match attention as it was early in the game but it was pointed out in commentary. Could have been the difference between winning and losing an All Ireland.

11 mins 7 seconds in.

There was also a Kilkenny point in the second half of that game which I was directly in line with and was 100% wide but was given. On such small things can championships swing. It's a great idea, and doesn't seem to cost the absolute fortune people presume. I don't understand why people are giving out about it not covering goals. When was the last time there was a contentious decision over a ball crossing the goal line? And isn't there two umpires exceedingly well placed to make that relatively simple call

Hidalgo

Hulk Hands wrote: »

There was also a Kilkenny point in the second half of that game which I was directly in line with and was 100% wide but was given. On such small things can championships swing. It's a great idea, and doesn't seem to cost the absolute fortune people presume. I don't understand why people are giving out about it not covering goals. When was the last time there was a contentious decision over a ball crossing the goal line? And isn't there two umpires exceedingly well placed to make that relatively simple call

It can be difficult to judge if the entire ball has crossed the line such is the speed, or if a keeper catches it and his boy is behind the line it may not be clearcut as to where his hands are in relation to the line.

While the umpires are perfectly positioned (its not like linesmen in soccer), you'd wonder at times how much they take in.
The Joe Sheridan 'goal' for Meath V Louth a few years ago being the most blatant example (not that this was a decision for hawkeye).

As it is, what's being introduced will/should cut out the most contentious and hardest to call decisions i.e shots that go well above the height of the post

lukin

Had to resurrect this thread to find this out:

1. Is Hawkeye only going to be used in Croke Park?
2. Is it going to be used in all games at Croker this year? (including the All-Ireland finals)

WumBuster

lukin wrote: »

Had to resurrect this thread to find this out:

1. Is Hawkeye only going to be used in Croke Park?
2. Is it going to be used in all games at Croker this year? (including the All-Ireland finals)

1. Yes. For 2 years and then there will be a review about whether to expand it to other grounds or whether to continue it at all.
2. Yes

lukin

WumBuster wrote: »

1. Yes. For 2 years and then there will be a review about whether to expand it to other grounds or whether to continue it at all.
2. Yes

Very forward-thinking by the GAA;not like them at all

nice_guy80

already I deem it a success

MrJoeSoap

harpsman wrote: »

For starters disputed points are rare enough in Croke Park-when they do happen it tends to be in provincial grounds w shorter posts.

Has been used four times in Croker already this summer. A fantastic addition to the sport and will hopefully be introduced to all championship grounds in time.

LOI Stats

Not a GAA fan, was just curious about the hawkeye. Saw bits of matches in the last month and have to say it looks like it is a complete success.

Anyone who wants to argue against it when it comes up for discussion at the next congress will have a hard time.

Fr Tod Umptious

LOI Stats wrote: »

Not a GAA fan, was just curious about the hawkeye. Saw bits of matches in the last month and have to say it looks like it is a complete success.

Anyone who wants to argue against it when it comes up for discussion at the next congress will have a hard time.

I'd say cost would be the biggest factor in a larger roll-out rather than anything else
They have a sponsor for it in CP so if they can get sponsors for further roll-outs they it's a dead cert.

lukin wrote: »

Very forward-thinking by the GAA;not like them at all

the GAA are far more forward thinking than many often give them credit for.

Take for example the back door systems, essentially a major change in the way the championship is played
The building of CP wired for floodlights even though they were not needed for a number of years after completion
Rebuilding Hill 16 to accommodate bolted on seats if needed in the future, hich they were.

WumBuster

nice_guy80 wrote: »

already I deem it a success

I think it should be done for goals as well. Also, i think ''wide'' or ''outside'' would be more appropriate than ''miss'' which sounds a bit silly imo.

Padkir

WumBuster wrote: »

I think it should be done for goals as well. Also, i think ''wide'' or ''outside'' would be more appropriate than ''miss'' which sounds a bit silly imo.

Why is miss silly? You take a shot and you either score or you miss...

flazio

Looking at that Munster Final, there looked to be a couple of times they could have used the Hawkeye.
I suppose it's too late for this year's championship but could they use the TV camera replays for review of disputed points in the absence of hawkeye outside Croke Park? And should they?

MrJoeSoap

flazio wrote: »

I suppose it's too late for this year's championship but could they use the TV camera replays for review of disputed points in the absence of hawkeye outside Croke Park? And should they?

No. Completely unreliable.

Eventually HawkEye will be used in more grounds, this season is a trial. Until then, we need to sit tight. :pac:

keane2097

Hopefully this will be the thin end of the wedge and we'll get proper video refereeing implemented in the next few years.

The argument that fans won't want the game interrupted is already blown out as everyone seems to be dying for the ref to call for hawkeye so they can go "ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH"!

MrJoeSoap

keane2097 wrote: »

Hopefully this will be the thin end of the wedge and we'll get proper video refereeing implemented in the next few years.

The argument that fans won't want the game interrupted is already blown out as everyone seems to be dying for the ref to call for hawkeye so they can go "ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH"!

Slightly off-topic, but I think Donal Óg's call for timekeeping to be taken from the ref and implemented in the same way it is in Rugby Union would be a good step in the right direction. Then allow play to continue after the buzzer/hooter until play goes dead.

keane2097

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Slightly off-topic, but I think Donal Óg's call for timekeeping to be taken from the ref and implemented in the same way it is in Rugby Union would be a good step in the right direction. Then allow play to continue after the buzzer/hooter until play goes dead.

From January 1st 2014 as far as I'm aware.

MrJoeSoap

keane2097 wrote: »

From January 1st 2014 as far as I'm aware.

Are you sure that isn't the "public clock" you are thinking of?

keane2097

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Are you sure that isn't the "public clock" you are thinking of?

Motion 24 provides for a public time clock to be introduced in Croke Park and in all Grounds used for Provincial and All-Ireland Series Senior Football Championship games. The clock will be stopped during the game during certain stoppages of play, and the end of the game shall be signalled by a hooter.

That's how it's done in rugby - the ref calls "time off", the clock stops, game is over when clock gets to 80.

MrJoeSoap

keane2097 wrote: »

That's how it's done in rugby - the ref calls "time off", the clock stops, game is over when clock gets to 80.

Apologies, I was referring more to hurling. Though I'm sure that if successful in football it will be added to hurling in time.

keane2097

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Apologies, I was referring more to hurling. Though I'm sure that if successful in football it will be added to hurling in time.

I didn't even notice that it was a football only thing tbh - seems like a very hard one to argue against.

MrJoeSoap

Hawkeye has completely ruined the minor hurling semi-final. Clear Limerick point given as a wide, even though the graphic showed it going over the bar. Hugely disappointing.

Skid X

MrJoeSoap wrote: »

Hawkeye has completely ruined the minor hurling semi-final. Clear Limerick point given as a wide, even though the graphic showed it going over the bar. Hugely disappointing.

That was very odd. Hard to know what happened. It could cost Limerick the match (gone into extra time now).

Hawkeye won't be used again today.