How low can I go...?

Bahanaman

Around this time two years ago I was at a crossroads in my sporting life. The previous winter my hurling career had finally come to an end. It was about time too as my hands were mangled and I was in no fit state to carry on. However as the fella says, I "wintered well"! The lbs started to pile on and I wasn't doing anything to burn off the huge amount of calories I was consuming. (Big appetite) I was in a rut. Then out of the blue a work colleague of my wife mentioned to me that he was thinking of doing the Dublin Marathon and asked I be interested in doing it. He had virtually the same story as myself. Retired hurler (the difference being he was an All-Ireland winner!) looking for an sporting outlet that was physical but maybe non contact for a change. There and then I decided that I was going to have a go. I got home and found an 18 week training program that I thought I could manage. I was an "intermediate" one as my pride wouldn't let me start on a "beginners" one! "Sure a lifetime's training for hurling must count for something!" Did I suffer for the first two weeks!! But to move things on a bit I did get to the start line in Dublin in 2011 and crossed the finish line 3 hrs and 36 minutes later. I have little or no memory of the last six miles or so of my marathon debut but when the dust settled (and I had spent a half an hour in the John's Ambulance tent!) I was delighted to have done it. My partner in crime had run a great race in 3:32 with negative splits! We both wondered before the race if, when it was over, that would be it. Would that itch be scratched. Would we feel that we had got that marathon thing out of the way and we'd finish with the running thing. Thankfully not a bit of it! Straight away we were planning ahead to our next one which as it turned out was the first Waterford marathon last June. We had a little bit more knowledge I suppose for this one and cut our times to 3:17 (my friend) and 3:19 (myself). When I say we had a little more knowledge I mean we weren't totally clueless!
Our next goal was Dublin again but he didn't make it due to the birth of his third child (brutal family planning!) So I was on my own. I had missed almost six weeks running in the lead up to the race due to achilles problems but miraculously managed to cut one minute off my Waterford time! So now here I am with the next target being Waterford again at the end of the next month. I'm over half way through a program that I got from the Edinburgh Marathon site. It's suspiciously like a Higdon plan in its layout. I've tweaked a little to suit my own situation. Its a combination of an intermediate and advanced plan and I hope over the next couple of weeks to give an account of how its going. I'd love to get some feedback from the boards community as I'm really still only making it up as I go along! Since I've taken up running I've really been delighted at the support there is in the running community for each other. We're all competitive and want to do our best but I suppose our main oponent is the clock. I love the encouragement and lack of begrudgery that I've noticed on all running forums on boards and its great how willing everyone is to offer genuine advice to fellow runners. So fellow boardsies the following is a brief rundown on my last two training weeks and I hope to keep you updated as the miles pile on

Mon Apr 5th-Sun May 5th
Mon: 9 miles @ 7:38 pace
Tue: 45 min tempo with 30 min @ 6:38 pace
Wed: Rest
Thur: 6 x 800 repeats ranging from 2:51 - 3:02
Fri: 9 miles at mp - 7:15 pace
Sat: LSR 19 miles of marathon route @ 7:48 pace
Sun: Rest

Mon May 6th-Sun May 12th
Mon: 10 miles @ 7:31 pace
Tue: 4 miles @ 7:12 pace
Wed: Rest
Thu: 45 min tempo with 30 min @ 6:26 pace
Fri: 10 miles @ 7:34 pace
Sat: LSR 20 miles @ 8:17 pace.

So there you are! The last two weeks I've put in in preparation for Waterford. Last week was tough for me but this week doesn't have as much mileage planned. The tougher and easier weeks will alternate between now and the taper. Please let me know what you think. My target is realistically 3:15 but I'm thinking of having a go at 3:10. I haven't decided yet what to do. I'm still plagued by the achilles problem I had before Dublin last year and am just barely managing it. How it reacts over the next four or five weeks could make my mind up for me.
Thanks for taking the time to read this rambling post and feel free to comment on it! Happy running all!!:D

Bahanaman

Mon 13th May: 6 miles @ 7:20 pace
Tue 14th May: 45min tempo with 30 min @ 6:33 pace

Yesterday's run was strange. Didn't feel great at the start. I thought I was going at a decent pace early on but the first mile was 7:22 on the watch. For the effort I thought it should've been much quicker. When I checked it later on garmin connect the lock on the satellite was off so I'm putting it down to that. I didn't feel great during the run. Legs felt weak but I pushed the last mile and did a 6:54.

Tempo run tonight with 7.5 min warm up/cool down either side of 30 min hard effort. I'm not sure but is this what is known as lactate threshold running! Whatever it was my legs were burning. More worrying though was the discomfort in my left achilles! I didn't ease at all during the hard effort and got worse during the warm down. I'm really worried that it's getting worse. I've a rest day planned for tomorrow with 800 repeats for Thursday. I'm thinking of giving these a miss to give the heel another day to settle. Is this a good idea? Maybe I should give it more days off? Any advice out there?

Bahanaman

Achilles update!: Rest day yesterday seems to have helped. Planning 6 x 800s tonight. Should I or shouldn't I?!!

Gavlor

Bahanaman wrote: »

Achilles update!: Rest day yesterday seems to have helped. Planning 6 x 800s tonight. Should I or shouldn't I?!!

With a dodgy Achilles 5 or 6 weeks before your marathon???

Nope

Bahanaman

Stay off it altogether or maybe do a couple of mile on grass?

KielyUnusual

Three quarters of the battle in the marathon is making it to the start line in one piece. You've put in some quality work and aiming for 3.10 is by no means a stretch goal judging by your training. You'll not loose any fitness even if you have to rest up for a few days or even a week. Interval session is certainly the last thing you should be doing.

Bahanaman

KielyUnusual wrote: »

Three quarters of the battle in the marathon is making it to the start line in one piece. You've put in some quality work and aiming for 3.10 is by no means a stretch goal judging by your training. You'll not loose any fitness even if you have to rest up for a few days or even a week. Interval session is certainly the last thing you should be doing.

Thanks for the advice Kiely. Went out this evening intending to have an easy few miles. After 10 min the heel felt good so I decided to chance the session! I was wearing my puma faas 800s which have good support and cushioning. They're light too which is always a help. The result was the best set of repeats I've done! The splits went from 2:50 to 2:53 with the fourth repeat of six being the slowest. I think the stability in the shoes helped with the heel. I'd consider them for the marathon but when I do any distance in them I get wicked hotspots on the calls of my feet!

Bahanaman

Hmmmm...achilles felt good last Thursday during the interval session. Not so good for the 6 miles I ran on the bank of the Barrow river Friday evening! I wanted to push myself a little and go under marathon pace which for my 3:10 target in Waterford is 7:15. I ended up doing it at 7:04 average. I was happy to finish with that pace but was struggling more than I should have. The heel was at me from the start and I was aware of it all through the run. Usually when things are going well during a run the niggle fades and it's not an issue. Not on Friday:(

Saturday and a 12 mile LSR where I planned to do miles 10 and 11 at marathon pace. The run went well with the legs feeling a little tired. The ice applied to the heel the night before helped with the achilles and it felt "comfortable" from early on. I'd settle for that from here to the 29th of June! When it came to the two marathon effort miles things were o.k. With not too much discomfort I was able to punch them in a couple of seconds under target pace.

Rest Yesterday with a little sense of dread for a tough week ahead!

This evening was a ten mile run shared between the road and the local GAA pitch. I had intended on going at an easy pace but with a good chunk of the first mile being down hill I fell into the trap of going too fast! However I got into a good rhythm and by the end had done the 10 miles at 7:11 pace. I didn't have much left in the tank but was happy enough. I wonder is doing midweek runs like this at a fairly strong effort good or bad when it come to marathon preparation? Maybe I'm doing myself harm.

So since last Thursday:
Fri 17th May: 6 miles @ 7:04 pace
Sat 18th May: 12 miles LSR @ 7:36 pace (mile 10: 7:12, mile 11: 7:08)
Sun 19th May: Rest
Total miles for the week: 35.76

Mon 20th May: 10 miles @ 7:11 pace

Bahanaman

50 min tempo tonight. 35 min at full effort in the middle. Really tough in windy conditions. My feet were killing me from half way through the run. 6:40 was my pace for the 'fast' section and I couldn't have gone a second faster. Finding it tough at the moment. I'll need to rest well between runs as the legs are feeling very weary at the moment. The taper better do its job!

Bahanaman

Rest day yesterday. 800 repeats planned for tonight but it was very windy and I just couldn't face them! So what did I do instead?! Ran ten miles at a little faster than marathon pace along the river Barrow track. Though it would be easier but as it turned out the first five of those miles up river were into a ferocious headwind. It was worse than I thought! I really despise the wind and found myself pushing really hard to keep up with the pace I had decided to run. The result was that I was fairly shook when I came to the halfway point of the run. Still at least the return would be downwind. I managed to get the pace down to 7:10 at the end of the ten miles but the effort was more than I should have put myself through.

I think I might leave out the interval sessions from now until Waterford. I'm not so sure what extra benefit they'd give over 26.2 miles. Also I'm afraid of doing a hamstring during one of them. Would this be pre-taper madness???:eek:

Bahanaman

Did an easy 8.77 miles on Fri and a tough 22 mile LSR in bandit country on the KK Tipp border yesterday. A really hilly route!

A quick check on the Garmin website tells me I've a total of 57.72 miles done this week. That's my highest ever total and I must say I'm feeling it! I'm gonna take an extra rest day tomorrow to let the legs recover a little more! Roll on June 29th!

Bahanaman

Resisted the temptation to go for a run yesterday so I could have the extra days recovery after the 22 mile LSR last Saturday. Now I'm dealing with the guilt!!! My discipline is gone! I've abandoned my program. I'll be lucky to finish at all on the 29th!!:eek:

Bahanaman

Back on the road again!! (Still worried about giving in to the extra rest day!!) Tue 29th May: 6 miles @ 6:56 pace
Wed 30th May: 5 miles @7:05 pace

Pushed it hard Tuesday after taking the extra rest. Probably too hard! The legs still felt a bit heavy. Still it was well below my marathon pace so that was good.

Last night I went hard enough again and this time tried not to look at the garmin every 200 metres! I was pleasantly surprised to be able to keep an even pace going. It was still faster than my marathon pace so again that was good. Hopefully I might be able to handle the actual pace over the distance on the day!

I'm still not sure what the race day shoe will be. I wore my Brooks Adrenalines Tuesday and the Brooks Ravennas last night. The Ravennas are lighter and faster but don't give as much support and my Achilles was much sorer during and after last night's run. I think I might have to stick to the Adrenalines for the race itself.

Bahanaman

Have run into a bit of trouble!! I had to take a class from my school on a trip to Denmark last Friday for 5 nights. I got a good six mile run in the morning before we left and I had fully intended on keeping up the training over there especially as the terrain where we were going to be staying was completely flat!! Unfortunately it was not to be. When you're in charge of 22 6th class children in a foreign country even with the help of two colleagues you don't have much spare time! Also we were all "sleeping" on the floor of the gym in our host school so we were never gonna get much rest! Just try and get 22 excited 12 year olds to settle down for a night's sleep! I did get out for an eight mile run early Sunday but did not feel good. Monday confirmed what I had been feeling the day before as I had developed a chest infection! We had taken an antibiotic with us in case any of the children needed it but now I was taking it!! So no more running on the nice flat roads of Denmark. We got home on Wednesday evening. Even though I was wrecked I did a five mile run yesterday at an easy pace. I don't know where I stand now re my Waterford goal. Has this dose and break in the training been a big setback? This weekend will tell a lot. The last 20 miler is on the agenda. Should I do it?......

Bahanaman

Thu 6th June: 5 miles @ 7:29 pace
Fri 7th June: 7 miles @ 7:09 pace

Thursday's run was just to try and get back into it. Didn't feel great but didn't push it. This one was all about getting back on the road.
Yesterday's run was along the River Barrow track and I wanted to push it on a bit to try and get an idea where I'm at. I meant to do 10 miles but was caught for time. The heat was a factor but as it was only 7 miles it wasn't too much of a problem. I was happy enough to be able to keep up the pace. There were stretches on the track where the grass was quite long so running was difficult.

Bahanaman

Thu 6th June: 5 miles @ 7:29 pace
Fri 7th June: 7 miles @ 7:09 pace

Thursday's run was just to try and get back into it. Didn't feel great but didn't push it. This one was all about getting back on the road.
Yesterday's run was along the River Barrow track and I wanted to push it on a bit to try and get an idea where I'm at. I meant to do 10 miles but was caught for time. The heat was a factor but as it was only 7 miles it wasn't too much of a problem. I was happy enough to be able to keep up the pace. There were stretches on the track where the grass was quite long so running was difficult.

Gavlor

Man that lsr will be hard going. And just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons you should consider :

7 easy 6 pmp 7 easy

Ceepo

Hi there.

I wouldn't do the lsr or at least curtail it a bit. You have loads done.
You are getting over a chest infection after taking antibotics.

By all means do some training but just take it easy. Just from the posts you have put up you will be Fooked by the time 29th comes around.

If you look back on your log you have a lot if hard running on it. 22 mile run, tired after so took rest day followed by 2 hard days. That's not giving you recovery. Learn to go easy on some of your runs.

I would like to see your heart rate stats for the runs done before the chest infection.

As KU pointed out half the battle is getting to the line. IMO the biggest problem is over doing it not under doing it.
Get to the start line fresh and raring to go. Not getting over sickness or fatigue.

There is nothing to be gained physically by doing another 20/22 coming of sickenss coming of sickness
Consider. Doing 14/16 ml easy.Don't forget its hot out there this Will have an effect as well.
Do a few easy runs early in the week but slow down 7.30 or slower, and maybe Wed or Thurs do your tempo run.

Best of luck


PS Both myelself and KU are Tipp men:D

Bahanaman

Gavlor wrote: »

Man that lsr will be hard going. And just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons you should consider :

7 easy 6 pmp 7 easy

Ah jaysus Gavlor! What're'ya doin to me? I think I'll just be happy with getting the miles done at whatever pace happens!

Bahanaman

Thx Ceepo. I'll put up the hr stats later. I've been wearing the monitor but haven't a clue how to interpret the data! I'm new to this lark! Like I said in my first post here it's great to see others coming on here with genuine advice.

Bahanaman

Well I did the 20 mile LSR run yesterday against the advice of some who are far more knowledgeable than me! But This run had been arranged for a while and my running partner was coming from a distance to join me and I didn't want to let him down. I went out Saturday night and left water bottles all over the place! Dehydration wasn't going to be a factor on this run! By the end of the run which was half on the road and half on the Barrow track we were both delighted. It was the best I've felt during any LSR since I began running. I remember being surprised at one stage that we only had 4 miles to go and instead of thinking it would never end was thinking we only had a little more than half an hour to go! That never happened before.
I've been on an antibiotic all this week and have done very little in a week which was to have been high mileage. But I think the lower mileage made the LSR easier. Like a mini taper. It showed me how important the taper is and I'm going to make sure I taper correctly this time and resist the temptation to do too much over the last fortnight!

Sun 9th June: 20 mile LSR @ 8:09 pace, HR 133

Bahanaman

Out tonight in the pishes of rain!

Mon 11th June: 8 miles @ 7:18 pace, HR 140

Not a pleasant night for a run. Rain and a good headwind for the second half of the run. Funny how the wind never seems to help as much as it hinders when you're on an out and back route!! Wore the Brooks Ravennas tonight for the first time in a while. They do feel that bit faster than the Adrenalines but the Achilles always plays up more in them so I should really stick with the stronger shoe.

Bahanaman

Have a 12 mile LSR on the plan for the weekend. I was thinking of trying it like a long tempo type run. 3 miles easy, 6 miles pmp, 3miles easy to finish. Last test before the 29th. Is it too close?

Bahanaman

Tempo run tonight. Had a long day and had a really healthy dinner of a quarter pounder and chips this evening on the way home from work! So I wasn't feeling very athletic setting off on the run. I gave it a good effort and it was tough. Even though I was knackered at the finish I was happy with the pace.

Thur 13th June: 30 min Tempo. 5 min warm up, 20 min @ 6:25 pace, 5 min warm down.

Bahanaman

5 miles today. Had intended getting out yesterday but was really tired all day so decided it might be counter productive and left it. Decided today's run would be 1 mile easy, 3 miles hard, 1 mile easy. Because the first mile is down hill and today down wind it was quick enough even though the effort was easy enough. Pushed on from there and the next three ended well under 7 min. Last big run tomorrow before the beginning of the taper proper.

Today's run
Mile 1: 7:16
Mile 2: 6:54
Mile 3: 6:53
Mile 4: 6:49
Mile 5: 7:28

village runner

I see you ain't getting much advice on this forum. Personally you train to fast and race to slow. I have said for months with an Achilles problem you shouldn't do this and that. For example you ran 20 slow Sunday and then 8 at marathon pace monday. No wonder your Achilles is sore. As KU said get to start line in one piece

Ceepo

village runner wrote: »

I see you ain't getting much advice on this forum. Personally you train to fast and race to slow. I have said for months with an Achilles problem you shouldn't do this and that. For example you ran 20 slow Sunday and then 8 at marathon pace monday. No wonder your Achilles is sore. As KU said get to start line in one piece

Getting advice is one thing
listening to advice is a different thing;), !!

village runner

Ceepo wrote: »

Getting advice is one thing
listening to advice is a different thing;), !!

Even the most intelligent people don't listen. The one thing that bothers me about boards is people look for advice. People take time to answer them And give them good advice. Then they do the opposite.

Bahanaman

village runner wrote: »

Even the most intelligent people don't listen. The one thing that bothers me about boards is people look for advice. People take time to answer them And give them good advice. Then they do the opposite.

Are you saying I'm intelligent Village runner??!!! Why thanks!!;) There was a mistake there the other day. I didn't run last Mon. I put down the right date but the wrong day. Even I'm not stupid enough to go out the day after a 20 miler! Hopefully I will get to the start line in one piece! I'm sure you're a good man for taking advice yourself!:P

Bahanaman

Sun 16th June: 12 miles. First 3 @ 7:32 pace, HR 133
Middle 6 @ 7:09 pace, HR 152
Last 3 @ 7:58 pace, HR 140

Tue 18th June: 6 miles @ 7:02 pace, HR 142

Jogging from here on in!

Cleanman

I've just come across this log today. Welcome! I'm not a marathoner - far from it in fact. But I do follow a lot of marathoners logs and read a lot about it over the years. From what I can see, you have got some some good advice here and you need to listen to it. You've obviously got bags of talent. But you need to be smarter with your training. Most of your runs looks far too fast for your target. Pushing yourself like that is only going to a) lead to injury (or prevent current problems from healing:mad:) and b) lead to a decrease in your fitness.

If I was you, I'd have a look at Krusty Clowns log. He's a sub 2:40 marathon man and does a lot of his runs at a slower pace than you. Indeed, some of his runs are in the 8 min/mile category. In fact, KU, who has already posted here is a sub 2:40 man too:rolleyes:

Enjoy the taper and take it easy and hopefully you'll smash 3:15.

And when starting up training for your sub 3hr marathon:D, take heed of what the experienced guys here are saying!