Game of Thrones Chapter a Day Read: All Readers*Mod Note Post#68*

mariebeth

mariebeth wrote: »

I'm not a huge fan of Cat's chapters, so I rushed it a bit.

I'd forgotten that it is Cat who has to push Ned to take the role of Hand once they learn that Lysa believes Jon Arryn to have been murdered. It almost feels slightly out of character for Ned that he doesn't want to go south and try to find out who killed him.

I think she was less pushed to let him go in the show that's why you've thought otherwise because I thought that way before this re read. Don't like cat's chapters they just annoy me for some reason! I think it's because she is constantly making wrong decisions.

December2012

It's interesting how in the books Catlyn wants Ned to be the had but in the shows he feels it is his duty.

iamanengine

Finding this difficult to keep up with, I just finished Neds chapter and Im still 2 behind, oh dear

mariebeth

That's ok, I've been behind as well, especially over the weekend other things get in the way.

mariebeth

Deleted User wrote: »

I think she was less pushed to let him go in the show that's why you've thought otherwise because I thought that way before this re read. Don't like cat's chapters they just annoy me for some reason! I think it's because she is constantly making wrong decisions.

And jumping to wrong conclusions as well.

mariebeth

I just love Arya's chapters

Chapter 7 - Arya 1

Arya is dismayed at her crooked stitches; she can't match her sister Sansa's needlework. Septa Mordane coos over Princess Myrcella's needlework, which Arya thinks is also crooked. Sansa is whispering with Jeyne Poole and Beth Cassel. When Arya asks what they are whispering about she is told it is about how handsome Prince Joffrey is, and that he has complimented Sansa and is going to marry her. Arya points out that Jon thinks Joffrey looks like a girl. Sansa laments that Jon gets jealous because he is a bastard but Arya defends him, drawing the Septa's attention to her.



Septa Mordane inspects Arya's stitches and pronounces her dissatisfaction. Humiliated, Arya bolts for the door, stopping only long enough to be forced to bow to Princess Myrcella. Arya wishes she had some of her sister's skill and beauty. She has her father’s looks, not the beauty of their mother, like Sansa. Jeyne used to call her "Horseface", which was all the more hurtful because the only thing that Arya could do better than Sansa was ride. That, and manage a household since Sansa had no head for figures.



Arya finds her wolf pup Nymeria waiting for her and together they go to watch the boys sparring in the practice yard, not daring to go back to her room where she would be found and punished. On the way she comes across Jon seated on a sill with Ghost, watching the fighting below. She sits down beside him and they watch together.



In the yard below, heavily padded Bran and Prince Tommen are fighting each other with wooden swords under the watchful eye of Ser Rodrik Cassel, the master-at-arms. The group of spectators includes Robb and Theon. Jon comments that swords are a bit more exhausting than needlework and Arya responds that they are also more fun. Arya remembers thinking when she was little that she was a bastard like Jon because she was the only child to take after her father. When Arya asks why Jon is not down in the yard with the others, Jon explains that bastards are not allowed to damage princes, only trueborn swords can. Arya says she could fight as well as Bran who is only 7 while she is 9, but Jon says she doesn't have enough strength for a longsword.



Jon points out that the newly arrived Prince Joffery is wearing a sigil that has both the stag and lion on it, giving his mother’s House sigil equality to the royal sigil. Jon suggests that Arya should wear a combination sigil for the Starks and Tullys, but Arya jokes that a wolf with a trout in its mouth would look silly and questions why a girl would need a sigil if she isn't allowed to fight.



Below, Bran has knocked Tommen down and Ser Rodrik calls Robb and Joffrey for a bout. Joffrey acts as if it is beneath his dignity to fight Starks with practice swords. He suggests real swords, and Robb readily accepts. Jon comments to Arya that Joffrey is a little ****. Ser Rodrik states that he would only allow blunted tourney swords. Joffrey's bodyguard Sandor Clegane remarks that he killed a man with a real sword when he was only twelve. Joffrey makes a few more condescending remarks that enrage Robb, then feigns a yawn and leaves with Tommen. Jon encourages Arya to go to her room and face her punishment. Arya insists it is not fair but Jon says that nothing is fair as he walks away with Ghost. Arya returns to her room to find not only Septa Mordane, but also her mother.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_7


Also, just to be aware, I've asked for the two threads to be merged as the first time readers thread is seeing very little action, so there will be first time readers in this thread from now on.

I don't think there's been anything spoilery from future books, but going forward, as per the mod note stay on topic of the chapters we have read, and if needs must, put anything not covered in the show in to spoilers.

calex71

MOD NOTE: Threads merged at request of OP

Hi Guys OP asked me to merge the 2 threads as there was not as much activity in the 1st time readers thread. As a rule going forward please limit discussion to the current chapter being discussed, there should be no discussion of future events and certainly none beyond the current TV episode this is to spare people who are not up to book 5 from spoilers.

Normally I would frown on backseat moderation but in this instance I have no problem whatsoever with posters telling others to stay on topic

Any problems suggestions going forward just drop me a message

Ayra's chapters are always great. I hated the Septa! This chapter actually surprised me and reminded me of how close in age Rob & Joffrey are supposed to be but in the show you can see a huge gap. Joffrey's behavior here plants the seed of hatred for later.

ArmaniJeanss

mariebeth wrote: »

Also, just to be aware, I've asked for the two threads to be merged as the first time readers thread is seeing very little action, so there will be first time readers in this thread from now on.

I don't think there's been anything spoilery from future books, but going forward, as per the mod note stay on topic of the chapters we have read, and if needs must, put anything not covered in the show in to spoilers.

calex71 wrote: »

MOD NOTE: Threads merged at request of OP

Hi Guys OP asked me to merge the 2 threads as there was not as much activity in the 1st time readers thread. As a rule going forward please limit discussion to the current chapter being discussed, there should be no discussion of future events and certainly none beyond the current TV episode this is to spare people who are not up to book 5 from spoilers.

Honestly lads I think this is a terrible idea.
If the other thread isn't working then lock it or let it drop off the front page.
Theres shirley no need to change the rules of this thread as it is working, and loads of people said they wanted to be able to discuss foreshadowing/future references etc without having to use spoiler tags.

Gbear

I have to say, I prefer the way the characters are aged in the show.

You can imagine freaks like the Cleganes being almost like men at 12 or 13 but generally speaking it just doesn't make sense to have children going to war and so forth.

From the fighting scene, it seems like it would be difficult for even a fit 14 year old to wield a sword properly.

mariebeth

Gbear wrote: »

I have to say, I prefer the way the characters are aged in the show.

You can imagine freaks like the Cleganes being almost like men at 12 or 13 but generally speaking it just doesn't make sense to have children going to war and so forth.

From the fighting scene, it seems like it would be difficult for even a fit 14 year old to wield a sword properly.

I feel the same. I know in the middle ages children would have been married/gone to war at those kind of ages, but it still makes me slightly uncomfortable reading the books knowing what ages the characters are supposed to be.


Arya is an out and out Stark, there is a lot more of her father in her besides just her looks. She's also a pack animal, she loves her brother Jon, and will stick up for him no matter what.

mariebeth

Chapter 8 - Bran 2
The majority of the men have gone hunting boar with the king, leaving Bran behind with Jon, Rickon and the girls. Jon seems to be angry with everyone, even though he’s going to the Wall with Uncle Benjen, so Bran does not look very hard for him.



At first Bran was excited about leaving Winterfell and going to King's Landing on a real horse, not just a pony. He remembers the stories Old Nan told about ghosts and terrible dungeons, and dragon skulls on the walls. He dreams of being a member of the Kingsguard someday, and is anxious to meet the greatest modern knight, Ser Barristan the Bold. But now Bran is also apprehensive about leaving the only home he has ever known. He will miss all those he is leaving behind, even his pony.



Not being able to stand the goodbyes, Bran goes to the castle godswood with his direwolf. Unlike all his siblings, he still hasn’t named his wolf; none of the names he tries seem right. Eventually, Bran gets tired of trying to teach his wolf to fetch and decides to go climbing. His wolf doesn’t want him to go and howls when he climbs away up a tree and onto the armory roof.
Bran spends much of his time climbing the roofs of Winterfell. His mother claims that Bran could climb before he could walk. Since Bran cannot remember learning to climb or learning to walk he assumes it must be true. His mother is also terrified that one day he might fall and kill himself. Once Bran kept a promise not to climb for almost a fortnight and was miserable the entire time. Finally he gave in but confessed his crime the next day. When his father ordered him to the godswood to cleanse himself, they found him sleeping in the tallest tree in the grove the next morning. His father, angry and laughing, told him that from now on he was free to climb, so long as his mother didn’t catch him.



Others have tried to stop him, but to no avail. The guards tried to stop him but they were too slow and escaping from them was fun. Old Nan once told a story of a boy who climbed too high and was struck by lightning and had his eyes eaten by crows, but Bran likes to feed the crows and they never seem interested in pecking out his eyes. Maester Luwin made a clay boy and threw it off the wall as an example, but Bran only responded that he is not made of clay and he never falls.
Bran is climbing to the Broken Tower, where he likes to feed the crows, when he is startled by voices from the First Keep, the oldest part of the castle. At first he doesn’t recognize them as Queen Cersei and her brother, Ser Jaime. Cersei is telling Jaime that he should be the Hand of the King, and that Eddard Stark will put them in danger because the king loves him like a brother. Jaime jokes that Robert hates his brothers. Unamused, Cersei insists that Robert will listen to Eddard. Jaime states that he prefers honorable men to ambitious men like Robert’s brothers and Littlefinger.
Cersei says she is worried about what Lysa Arryn may have said to the Starks, but Jaime tells her not to worry, as Lysa has no proof. Despite this, Cersei remains fearful that Eddard might betray her son Joffrey when he takes the throne or convince Robert to put her aside.



Bran grows frightened by what he overhears, but wants to see who is talking, so he climbs over the window, then drops down. He can see the man and woman inside, naked and wrestling, fondling and moaning. He recognizes Cersei just as her eyes open and she sees him. Bran loses his grip as he tries to escape, but catches himself on the window ledge. Cersei and Jaime come to look at him. Jaime extends a hand to Bran and pulls him up onto the ledge.



As Bran begins to relax, Jaime asks him how old he is. Bran tells him he is seven. Then Jaime loathingly says, “The things I do for love,” and shoves Bran backwards out the window into the empty air.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_8

Bran's along with Tyrion's chapters are actually my favourites chapters. Bran's next chapter is one of my favourite in book one.

One of the first big events in the books and from here on out we all look at a majority of the Lannister's as bad. Also the shock of Jamie & his sister being together makes you wonder what the hell is going on. I was really shocked when Bran was pushed out of the window and for a good time after I wanted revenge! I remember closing the book after reading it presuming Bran would be dead. "The Things I do for Love" also echoed for me and made me think of what else they had got up to.

Rosy Posy

I love the contrasts between the childlike perspective of Bran and the sordid and devious world of Jaime and Cersei. It's especially effective when its filtered through Brans consciousness.

We already get a hint of Bran's delight and pride at being privy to secret knowledge of Winterfell's paths and passageways, his affinity with animals and his ability to move about the castle unseen and unnoticed. There's a sense that he is marked as special and outside the conventional rules.

The Lannisters come across as devious and debased, in sharp contrast to Bran's innocence. Their hunger for power is naked as is their ruthlessness. They talk blithely, although obliquely of dispensing with Ned and Robert as they have already done with Jon Arren, and their casual acceptance of violence as a means to an end is proven in Jaime's final shocking act of pushing Bran from the window.

There is some really beautiful lyrical language in Brans descriptions of the sensation of climbing. I love the way that each chapter truly embodies the spirit of the character and their age and stage.

mariebeth

This chapter is a beautiful, yet poignant one. When you know what is going to happen to Bran at the end of the chapter, his description of how he genuinely just loves to climb, makes me feel quite sad for Bran.

It's a great chapter for describing Winterfell, it gives the impression that not only is it a castle, it is also a proper home for the Starks, that it was built and added on haphazardly to as needs be, rather than designed.

I also feel from this chapter, that it is Cersei more than anyone who is power hungry, and controlling than her brother Jaime. She sees the danger in having Ned as Roberts hand, because of his honour.

mariebeth

On my phone at the moment & won't have time til later to put up today's chapter summary. If someone could get to it before me that would be great

Chapter 9 Tyrion I

Chapter 9 Tyrion I
Tyrion has been reading all night in Winterfell's library when he hears a wolf howl. He gives up on reading, noticing that it's near dawn and that Septon Chayle is asleep. Tyrion wakes him up and goes out to break his fast. As he leaves he hears the Hound complaining about how long Bran is taking to die. Joffrey states that at least Bran is dying quietly, but the wolf's howling is disturbing his sleep. The Hound offers to go kill it, which Joffrey finds amusing, believing the Starks would not notice it missing. Tyrion notes that the Starks can count past six, unlike some princes.

The Hound uses the remark as an excuse to make fun of Tyrion's height. Tyrion brushes the comment off before advising Joffrey to pay a visit to the Starks to offer his sympathies. When Joffrey asks what good it would do, Tyrion tells him that his absence has been noticed. Joffrey continues to refuse, and Tyrion proceeds to browbeat him to the edge of tears until the boy acquiesces. The Hound, looming over Tyrion, warns him that the prince will remember how his uncle slapped him. Tyrion responds that he hopes he does and that the Hound should be a good dog and remind Joffrey if he forgets it.

Tyrion then seeks out his brother and sister, who are having breakfast in the morning room of the guest house. He asks if King Robert is still in bed and Cersei disdainfully explains that Robert has been up all night with Lord Eddard and has taken the Starks' sorrow deeply to heart. When Jaime adds that Robert has a big heart, Tyrion remembers that, during his childhood, Jaime was the only person who ever showed Tyrion the smallest amount of affection or respect, and he is willing to forgive Jaime almost anything.

As Tyrion orders breakfast, Prince Tommen asks after Bran, and says he doesn't want him to die. Jaime comments on the name "Brandon" being unlucky, but Tyrion states this may not be the case, explaining that the Maester Luwin thinks that since Bran hasn't died yet, he may recover. As he speaks, Tyrion catches the significant glance between Jaime and Cersei. Cersei immediately insists it is no mercy for Bran to live, and when Myrcella asks if Bran will be alright, Tyrion replies that Bran will never walk again.

Tyrion goes on to say that the wolf's howling outside his window may be contributing to Bran's survival. When the window is closed Bran gets weaker, but his heart strengthens again when it is open. Cersei responds that the wolves disturb her and are dangerous, but Jaime tells her the girls' wolves will doubtless follow them to King's Landing.

Tyrion then reveals to his family that he intends to visit the Wall before returning south. Jaime jokes that he hopes Tyrion will not take the black, but Tyrion quips back that if he did, the whores would go begging. Cersei leaves abruptly with her children, insisting they shouldn't hear such filth, while Jaime wonders if Eddard will leave Winterfell with Bran ill. Tyrion tells him that King Robert will make the choice for Eddard.

Jaime states that if he were Eddard, he would end Bran's torment and save him from being a cripple. Tyrion, himself less than able-bodied, advises Jaime not to say as much to Eddard before wondering out loud what tale Bran might tell if he wakes up. Jaime is not amused and wonders aloud about Tyrion's loyalty. Tyrion responds that Jaime knows how much he loves his family.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_9

mariebeth

I know the TV show portrays Tyrion as intelligent and extremely witty, but it's a pity they don't show just how clever and how well read he is.

In a way, Tyrion is most like his father. You can tell from his exchange with Joffrey that Tyrion knows how to handle his nephew, and doesn't treat him with the kid gloves that others do. I love how he slaps him, and tells him to go visit the Starks and pay his respects. Tyrion isn't afraid of Joffrey, and it's as if he recognises how spoilt the prince is, and tries to make up for it some little bit.

It's interesting to see Tyrion's perspective of Jaime. We've just witnessed Jaime pushing a 7 year old boy out of a window, and now Tyrion is reflecting on how Jaime was the only one to show him any bit of kindness when he was a child. It's an easy thing to ignore this part of Jaime's character however, when you know what he has just done.

There is also the first real hint at the strong links between the Stark children and their direwolves, as Tyrion comments that he thinks the wolf is helping to keep Bran alive.

The interactions between the Lannisters are interesting also, you can tell that Tyrion watches his siblings body language just as much as he listens to what they say, and that he doesn't miss much when it comes to his siblings.

mariebeth

Chapter 10 - Jon 2

Jon climbs the stairs to Bran's room with Ghost beside him, fearing that it might be the last time. Catelyn is there, having never left Bran's side for close to a fortnight, which has kept Jon away, but now there is no more time. When Jon enters, Catelyn responds with hostility, asking why he is here and demanding he leave. While once this would have sent him crying, now it only makes Jon angry so that when Catelyn threatens to call the guards, he calls her bluff.



Jon finds Bran emaciated and shrunken, and the covers over his legs look wrong. Jon asks Bran not to die and tells him everyone is waiting for him to wake up. Jon remembers how much Bran was looking forward to the journey south while explaining that he is going north to the Wall with Uncle Benjen. Catelyn admits that she was wishing for Bran to stay home with her, and her wish seems to have been granted. When Jon attempts to reassure her, she lashes out at him and, as he is leaving, tells him that it should have been him that fell.



Jon makes the long walk to the yard, where things are in an uproar as the party prepares to leave. Robb brings news that Benjen is looking for Jon. When Robb asks about his mother, Jon tells him she was kind. Robb then remarks that next time they meet, Jon will be all in black, and they hug farewell.



Next, Jon goes to see Arya, who is repacking her things with help from Nymeria, not having folded them well enough for Septa Mordane the first time. Jon says he has a secret present for her. After Arya closes the door and sets Nymeria to guard it, Jon gives her a small sword made specially for her, one like the swords from Braavos. He explains to her that she will have to practise every day, shows her how to hold it, and then gives her her first lesson: stick them with the pointy end. He then warns her not to tell Sansa. Arya runs to him for a last hug. Just before he leaves, Jon tells Arya that all the best swords have a name. When she asks what her sword's name is he explains that it’s her very favorite thing. Then say the name together: "Needle".

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_10

I think this is when people's dislike for Catelynn starts, you really feel for Jon in this chapter. But fair ****s to him he could have just walked away like he usually would have done instead he went and said his goodbyes to Bran. This chapter really shows how strong a bond Jon & Ayra have too. It's a sad one reading now especially with knowing what happens in the rest of this book.

Gbear

mariebeth wrote: »

I know the TV show portrays Tyrion as intelligent and extremely witty, but it's a pity they don't show just how clever and how well read he is.

They touch on it - they include the bit of dialogue "A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." with Jon Snow. Then there's his planning of the battle of blackwater in season 2 with Bronn.

mariebeth

Deleted User wrote: »

I think this is when people's dislike for Catelynn starts, you really feel for Jon in this chapter. But fair ****s to him he could have just walked away like he usually would have done instead he went and said his goodbyes to Bran. This chapter really shows how strong a bond Jon & Ayra have too. It's a sad one reading now especially with knowing what happens in the rest of this book.

I love the bond between Jon & Arya, they truly are brother and sister. The early chapters at Winterfell when the Starks are all together are quite bittersweet, knowing what will soon happen.

Gbear wrote: »

They touch on it - they include the bit of dialogue "A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone." with Jon Snow. Then there's his planning of the battle of blackwater in season 2 with Bronn.

I'd forgotten about that, it's been awhile since I've sat down and watched seasons 1 or 2.

Rosy Posy

I think that Catelyn is much more sympathetically portrayed in the tv show. I really disliked her in this scene. I think that Jon really comes across as a remarkable person in this chapter- he's marked as different by his name and his parentage but more than that he has qualities beyond his years. His stoicism in the face of Catelyn's naked lack of acceptance is admirable, as is his care for his brothers and sisters. It really feels that he's being set up as a character with significant destiny.

Gbear

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I think that Catelyn is much more sympathetically portrayed in the tv show. I really disliked her in this scene. I think that Jon really comes across as a remarkable person in this chapter- he's marked as different by his name and his parentage but more than that he has qualities beyond his years. His stoicism in the face of Catelyn's naked lack of acceptance is admirable, as is his care for his brothers and sisters. It really feels that he's being set up as a character with significant destiny.

It kinda seems out of character for her though.

She seems like a really good person (albeit a bit of a thicko) except where Jon is concerned. Then she immediately turns into a massive ****.

mariebeth

Sorry it's a day late, have had family around all weekend so it's been crazy!

Chapter 11 - Daenerys 2
While waiting for Daenerys' wedding, Illyrio Mopatis explains that Drogo’s khalasar of 40,000 Dothraki warriors and their families and herds gathered outside the walls of Pentos have made the other magisters so uneasy that they have doubled the city guard. The Dothraki are eating everything in sight, and Illyrio thinks it would be best to have the marriage as soon as possible. Ser Jorah Mormont has offered and been accepted into the service of Daenerys' brother Viserys. Viserys is impatient for Drogo to help him regain his throne. Illyrio explains to him that the Khal must take his new bride to Vaes Dothrak first, and then wait until the omens are favorable for war. Viserys complains at the delay despite Illyrio and Jorah cautioning patience.
That night, Daenerys dreams of Viserys chasing and beating her and saying, "You woke the dragon." Then she turns to see a dragon in his place and wakes shaking with a fine sheen of sweat on her skin.



Daenerys weds Khal Drogo under the open sky, before forty thousand Dothraki warriors. The ceremonies begin at dawn and continue until dusk. Viserys, Illyrio, and Jorah are seated below Drogo and Daenerys at the feast, which grates on Viserys' pride, especially when food is first served to Daenerys and Drogo before being offered to him. Daenerys, with the forced smile her brother told her she should wear, eats little since her stomach is upset. She is seated only with her new husband, and they do not even share a common language, so there is nothing for her to do.



Early on in the day she sees Dothraki men taking dancing women and mounting them in the open like animals. When two men grab the same woman, a fight to the death ensues. The survivor then takes another woman. Illyrio has told her that a Dothraki wedding without at least three deaths is considered dull; by the end of the day a dozen men have died, obviously making it an exceptional wedding. Daenerys is consumed by fear of her hulking husband with a stern cruel face and a culture that is so different, and of her brother if she should fail him.



As the sun sets, Daenerys receives her bride gifts. Viserys gives her three hand maids that cost him nothing, picked to teach her what she needs to know: Irri (to teach her how to ride), Jhiqui (to teach her the Dothraki tongue) and Doreah (to teach her the arts of love). Ser Jorah, with an apology since it was all he could afford, gives her a stack of old books in the Common Tongue, and she thanks him with all her heart. Illyrio gives her fine silks and fabrics, and three huge dragon's eggs: one is green, one is cream-colored, and one is black with scarlet ripples and swirls. Illyrio tells her that they have turned to stone over the years. Khal Drogo's bloodriders give her the traditional three weapons, which she refuses with the traditional refusals and passes to her husband. Many other gifts come from the other Dothraki.
Last of all Drogo brings forward his own bride gift, a fine grey filly. Drogo easily lifts her by the waist up to the saddle. She does not know what to do. Ser Jorah tells her to take the reins and ride. She is only a fair rider, having traveled almost exclusively by other means, but as she rides, she forgets her fears and eventually sends the horse into a gallop, and even has it leap over a firepit. She returns and tells Illyrio to tell her husband that he has given her the wind, and Drogo smiles. Then the sun sets and Drogo readies his horse. When Viserys warns her to please her husband, lest she will regret it, fear comes back to her.



Drogo sets a fast pace, saying nothing. Daenerys tries to rid herself of her fear by remembering she is the blood of the dragon and the dragon is never afraid. It is full dark when they stop at a grassy place beside a small stream. Drogo swings off his horse and lifts her down from hers. She feels fragile in her wedding silks. She begins to weep, but Drogo says "No," and wipes her tears away. She asks questions but all Drogo says is “No.” He starts softly murmuring to her in Dothraki to soothe her. Drogo sets her down on a rock and sits facing her, then starts removing the bells from his hair, and Daenerys helps. Then he indicates that she should unbraid his hair, which takes a long time. Then Drogo undresses her, with tenderness, and caresses her until she is ready for him. When he bares her breasts, she covers herself with her hands but Drogo gently pulls her hands away. After he finishes undressing her, he watches her for a while. Then he begins to touch her face and hair. It seems like hours to Daenerys before his hands go to her breasts. This makes Daenerys breathless, and when he seats her on his lap and asks “No?” she moves his hand inside her and says “Yes.”

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_11

Gbear

This chapter was somewhat troubling.

I'm not advocating burying your head in the sand and pretending that girls Dany's age didn't have sex with sometimes much older men in those times.

However, that doesn't mean that i'm ok with depicting, in intimate detail, a 13 year old girl having sex with a 30 year old man.

At least it's less rapey than it was in the TV show.

mariebeth

I think because I saw the series first, I have a picture of Dany in my head which is not that of a 13 year old girl, so I don't find it overly troubling as a chapter. I find it much easier to read than watch, because as you said, it's a less rapey than the TV show.

It's an important chapter, Daenerys gets married, and receives her dragon eggs. We also learn about Dothraki culture, in particular weddings. And the seeds of Viserys' disgruntlement and impatience are sown also in this chapter, when you see his impatience and his expectation that the Khal will provide him with his army straight away after the marriage, and that he is seated below his sister and the Khal at the wedding feast.

Rosy Posy

In some ways this chapter marks the beginning of Danys empowerment. I have to say that I don't see her in the same light as a 13 year old child, both because of the tv show and from reading other medieval set stories. I much preferred that Kahl Drogo was portrayed as a skilled and considerate lover, and that it was a real Kundalini rising moment for her. There is also that wonderful shift in power between her and Viserys. I think that this all culminates in her riding the horse for the first time- it's symbolic that he has given her freedom and power and taken away her fear.

Rosy Posy

Gbear wrote: »

It kinda seems out of character for her though.

She seems like a really good person (albeit a bit of a thicko) except where Jon is concerned. Then she immediately turns into a massive ****.

If you look at it in context of her family words- family, duty, honour- Jon is the living proof that her husband did not abide by this, and highlights her difference to the Starks. She says that she would have been fine with Jons existence, just not with him being under her nose all the time as a reminder of Neds infidelity. I think that she hates him in spite of herself, because she is no part of her yet her husband and children love him.

Gbear

Rosy Posy wrote: »

If you look at it in context of her family words- family, duty, honour- Jon is the living proof that her husband did not abide by this, and highlights her difference to the Starks. She says that she would have been fine with Jons existence, just not with him being under her nose all the time as a reminder of Neds infidelity. I think that she hates him in spite of herself, because she is no part of her yet her husband and children love him.

At the same time, you could argue that for the sake of her own family, she would've treated Jon with a modicum of civility.

We don't get the sense that Cat blindly follows "Family. Duty. Honour."
She seems to believe in them. She doesn't seem like some sort of unfeeling robot who blindly follows the mantra of her house. She doesn't just love her family because she has to.

I can see how there could have been some tension between them, but the extent to which Cat takes her hatred of Jon Snow seems excessive.
She seems like a normal caring mother but turns into a cow when it comes to Jon.

Granted, we don't see much of the interactions, so perhaps she was more reasonable to Jon when she wasn't crazy with grief. That's not really the impression we get from either character though. She also pushes for Jon to leave the house when Ned rides south.

I just find her reaction to him jarring. She sometimes makes rash decisions but by and large she seems like a reasonable woman. Given how warm her relationship is with her family I can't square the two positions.
It wasn't Jon's fault.