Game of Thrones Chapter a Day Read: All Readers*Mod Note Post#68*

Gbear

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

I would agree that this is Jon's chapter.

There's a lot of detail in the descriptions of Jon and Robb. Jon (slender, dark-haired & grey eyes, strong and fast) vs. Robb (muscular, red-brown hair & blue eyes, graceful and quick). Brothers indeed :pac:

Jon refers to Theon repeatedly as Greyjoy. You can taste his dislike of Theon. It's dripping from the page. We're not supposed to like him, but i wonder why it was Theon who brought forward Ice. Theon is a ward, not a squire nor a servant.

I thinks it's already clear that Jon has grown up harder than his brothers, even moreso than Theon, and you can here the toughnes with the last words "I think not, Greyjoy. This one belongs to me".

It's clear that Jon has a chip on his shoulder and Theon certainly seems like the sort of smarmy prick that'd piss Jon off. Robb had everything easy growing up, relatively speaking. Theon would've been quite subservient to him because of that and him being Ned's heir.
A bastard is treated differently though and Theon probably would've felt going after Jon would've been a way to climb the social ladder.
Not overtly mocking his bastardy but generally just trying to assert himself as dominant.

Interrobang

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

i wonder why it was Theon who brought forward Ice. Theon is a ward, not a squire nor a servant.

Good observation, and a good question. I wonder was it on the instruction of Eddard, or whether Theon himself was eager to do it? He has no respect for life and death seems to entertain him: he kicks Gared's severed head; and he's the first to draw his weapon to kill the direwolf pups and takes pleasure in the thought that they won't survive. I wouldn't put it past him to put himself in the next best position to wielding Ice.

Then again, Eddard evidently has some fondness for Jon, and perhaps putting Theon in the role of sword bearer is an indirect way of putting him in his place as subtle punishment for...

Gbear wrote: »

Theon probably would've felt going after Jon would've been a way to climb the social ladder.

mariebeth

Interrobang wrote: »

Also, I want a direwolf.

As long as you feed it and train it yourself you can have one!

I hadn't actually thought of it as more Jon's chapter, although now that it has been mentioned, it really does show Jon in a strong light, ready to put others before himself.

What stuck out to me was that the first introduction from Bran's POV to Robb and Jon were as his brothers together, and while he singularly mentions Jon as his bastard brother a short while later, firstly I think it shows that he considers Jon as true a brother as Robb, regardless of Jon's status.

Again I'm getting much more caught up in the descriptiveness of the chapters by reading it slowly, and while it probably helps that I can picture it more thoroughly thanks to the show, I could almost feel the cold as they were standing together, horses and men with their breath combining in the cold weather. GRRM really can set a scene.

Tom.D.BJJ

Helping out Mariebeth

Chapter 2 - Catelyn 1

Catelyn Stark seeks out her husband Eddard in the godswood following his return to Winterfell. She knows her husband always goes there after executing a man. She finds the godswood very dark and unsettling compared to the sunny one she remembers from her childhood home in Riverrun. Unlike her own family, the Starks keep faith with the Old Gods, rather than the Faith of the Seven.

She finds Ned polishing his greatsword, Ice, under the heart tree at the centre of the grove. He asks after the children, and Catelyn tells him they are deciding on the names for their new wolves. Ned notes that the man he excecuted is the fourth deserter this year. He adds that the man was half mad, that something had put a fear into him so deep that he could not reach him. The Night's Watch is dwindling, down to less than a thousand men, not just from desertions, but from ranging casualties. One day he may have to call his banners to fight Mance Rayder himself. Catelyn warns him that there are darker things beyond the Wall. Ned replies that the Others have been dead for eight thousand years, and that Maester Luwin claims they never existed at all. Catelyn replies that nobody has seen direwolves until today.

When Ned asks why Catelyn has come, she tells him that Jon Arryn, his foster father and her brother-in-law, is dead. The news came in King Robert's own hand. When asked, Catelyn explains that Jon Arryn's widow--Catelynn's sister Lysa Arryn--and her son have returned to the Eyrie and says that she thinks her sister should not be alone and should have gone back to Riverrun. Ned urges Catelyn to take the children to keep her sister company, but then Catelyn informs him that Robert Baratheon has also written that he is coming to Winterfell. This news gladdens Ned; it has been many years since Ned has seen Robert. However, Catelyn is worried about the omen of a direwolf found dead in the snow with an antler buried in its throat. With Robert coming, Catelyn confirms with Ned that they should send word to his brother Benjen on the Wall. Then Catelyn informs Ned that Robert's wife Cersei Lannister, their children, and her Lannister brothers are also coming. Ned does not like the Lannisters because they came to Robert’s cause only after victory was certain. Eddard is looking forward to seeing the children and then announces his worry about feeding them all.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_2

mariebeth

^^^Thanks Tom

mariebeth

Chapter 2 – Catelyn 1
Catelyn Stark seeks out her husband Eddard in the godswood following his return to Winterfell. She knows her husband always goes there after executing a man. She finds the godswood very dark and unsettling compared to the sunny one she remembers from her childhood home in Riverrun. Unlike her own family, the Starks keep faith with the Old Gods, rather than the Faith of the Seven.

She finds Ned polishing his greatsword, Ice, under the heart tree at the centre of the grove. He asks after the children, and Catelyn tells him they are deciding on the names for their new wolves. Ned notes that the man he excecuted is the fourth deserter this year. He adds that the man was half mad, that something had put a fear into him so deep that he could not reach him. The Night's Watch is dwindling, down to less than a thousand men, not just from desertions, but from ranging casualties. One day he may have to call his banners to fight Mance Rayder himself. Catelyn warns him that there are darker things beyond the Wall. Ned replies that the Others have been dead for eight thousand years, and that Maester Luwin claims they never existed at all. Catelyn replies that nobody has seen direwolves until today.

When Ned asks why Catelyn has come, she tells him that Jon Arryn, his foster father and her brother-in-law, is dead. The news came in King Robert's own hand. When asked, Catelyn explains that Jon Arryn's widow--Catelynn's sister Lysa Arryn--and her son have returned to the Eyrie and says that she thinks her sister should not be alone and should have gone back to Riverrun. Ned urges Catelyn to take the children to keep her sister company, but then Catelyn informs him that Robert Baratheon has also written that he is coming to Winterfell. This news gladdens Ned; it has been many years since Ned has seen Robert. However, Catelyn is worried about the omen of a direwolf found dead in the snow with an antler buried in its throat. With Robert coming, Catelyn confirms with Ned that they should send word to his brother Benjen on the Wall. Then Catelyn informs Ned that Robert's wife Cersei Lannister, their children, and her Lannister brothers are also coming. Ned does not like the Lannisters because they came to Robert’s cause only after victory was certain. Eddard is looking forward to seeing the children and then announces his worry about feeding them all.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_2

This is going well I haven't got a chance to post about the bran chapter but the beauty of the way he thread is set up we San all jump back in any time . All I will see about the Bran chapter is that you instantly like Eddard and the Stark family from how they are portrayed in the chapter. You know their father lives by honour and its rubbed off on his children. It's really well written and I don't know about every one else but when the dire wolves came into it I knew they'd be a big part to play going forward. I didn't like Theon from the very start

Tom.D.BJJ

Religion is a theme which becomes very prevalent in later books, but it’s also mentioned here. It sets the Starks apart even from the women they take as wives. Ned built her a sept, so that she could worship, and seems more accepting of her religion than she of his. The godswood makes her uneasy, and when she sits to talk, she sits with her back to the weirwood so she doesn’t have to look at the face.

In the last chapter, we met Bran, Robb and Jon so Cat gives us a brief introduction to the other Stark children. Arya is “already in love”. Sansa is “charmed and gracious”. Rickon is “not quite sure”. I laughed at this because I didn’t pick up on it first time around, but it’s almost exactly how their characters turn out.

Age is something interesting too, and somewhat different to what we know. Waymar Royce was eighteen, and a ranger half a year when he met his demise under the sword of an Other. Rickon is three, and “must learn to face his fears”. At seven, he would be expected to be old enough to watch a man beheaded like Bran. Robb and Jon are fourteen and “an old hand at justice”. Grow up fast and be ready because “Winter is coming”.

We’re also introduced to the Queen, “the Lannister woman” whose “pride is said to grow with every passing year”. Can you say foreshadow? Ned is willing to suffer an “infestation of Lannisters” for Roberts company. There it is, summed up in one throw away comment. Lannister bad, Stark good. From the Stark point of view, of course, but that’s the glory of everything being p.o.v. We get to see every side.

“Where the king goes, the realm follows”. True for every ruler in the book. Strong king, strong kingdom but as he/she changes then so does the kingdom.

Lovely Bloke

The order in which we are introduced to the characters is also important.

If we'd been given a Lannister POV first, where the Starks are made out to be the "bad guys" and Cersei or Jaime had been complaining about the dour and cold Starks, we may feel differently. But the fact that Martin sets the Starks up as honourable, then introduces these interlopers and gives us the Stark impression of them as being almost cartoon bad guys sets us against them from the start.

Even though the story is told from character POVs, there is still an element of "omniscient narrator".

Gbear

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

The order in which we are introduced to the characters is also important.

If we'd been given a Lannister POV first, where the Starks are made out to be the "bad guys" and Cersei or Jaime had been complaining about the dour and cold Starks, we may feel differently. But the fact that Martin sets the Starks up as honourable, then introduces these interlopers and gives us the Stark impression of them as being almost cartoon bad guys sets us against them from the start.

Even though the story is told from character POVs, there is still an element of "omniscient narrator".

I think by their actions the Lannisters would've been considered as the "bad guys" eventually.

It would've been interesting however, to be introduced to them first as the protagonists and only realise through the course of book 1 that, actually they're kinda evil. And then swing it right back around when Jamie starts redeeming himself in book 3.

Lovely Bloke

You could paint the Starks as baddies quite easily though.

Just who is this Northerner arriving down to KL with his accusations of incest, he's trying to take the throne for himself, the traitor, he must have been put up to it by Stannis.

Gbear

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

You could paint the Starks as baddies quite easily though.

Just who is this Northerner arriving down to KL with his accusations of incest, he's trying to take the throne for himself, the traitor, he must have been put up to it by Stannis.

Thing is though, the chapters are internal monologues, so if they were from Cercei or Jamie's point of view it'd be hard to avoid the whole incest thing.

mariebeth

Chapter 3 – Daenerys 1

Viserys Targaryen presents his thirteen-year-old sister, Daenerys, with a fine silk dress. The dress is a gift from their host Magister Illyrio Mopatis, who has also promised gold and jewels so she will look like a princess. Daenerys questions Illyrio's motives, but Viserys insists that the Magister only wants to get in his good graces for when he reclaims the Seven Kingdoms. Daenerys still doesn't trust Illyrio, but knows better than to say anything for fear of making Viserys angry (which he calls "waking the dragon").

Viserys is preparing to present Daenerys to the Dothraki horselord, Khal Drogo, in the hope that the Khal will take her as his wife in exchange for soldiers to reclaim the throne. He warns Daenerys not to fail him and wake the dragon, twisting one of her nipples for emphasis. Viserys adds that when they write the history of his realm they will say it began this night.

After Viserys leaves, Daenerys thinks of Westeros, a place she has never seen. She recalls the stories of her brother Crown Prince Rhaegar’s death at the hand of Robert Baratheon, her father King Aerys's murder by the Kingslayer, and her mother and brother's escape to Dragonstone, where her mother died giving birth to her. Daenerys also recalls how she and her brother fled Dragonstone with Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men, who took them to Braavos. There they lived in a big house with a red door and Ser Willem was always kind to her. But when Ser Willem died, the servants stole what money was left and they were put out of the house. Since then they have wandered, with Viserys keeping them moving in fear of the Usurper’s assassins. Near the end of her reverie, Dany reflects on how Viserys, now known as the Beggar King behind his back, has become obsessed with recovering his throne, while she only wants her childhood back.

Illyrio's servants come to bathe Daenerys and prepare her for her meeting with Khal Drogo. She is intended to marry Drogo, though she has always assumed she would marry her brother like the Targaryens always have. The servants tell her how lucky she is to marry a man so rich that even his slaves wear golden collars. Once she is properly dressed, her brother returns with Magister Illyrio. Viserys commands her to stand up and turn around. Illyrio showers Daenerys with compliments while Viserys complains she is too skinny and too young. Illyrio reassures him that she is old enough for the Khal and comments on her silver-gold hair and purple eyes, the hallmarks of old Valyrian nobility. When Viserys states that barbarians are said to have queer tastes such as boys and sheep, Illyrio warns him not to say these things to the Khal, creating a flare of anger in Viserys’ eyes.

The three of them journey in Illyrio's litter to Khal Drogo's manse in the pitch dark. Viserys states that 10,000 Dothraki screamers will be enough when combined with those that are just awaiting his return to overthrow the usurper. He speculates on those who would join their cause--House Tyrell, House Redwyne, House Darry, House Greyjoy, and the Dornishmen. Illyrio assures Viserys that the Seven Kingdoms secretly await his return, though Daenerys doubts him.

Illyrio says that the horselords' mansion was a gift from the magisters of Pentos, to help win the Khal's friendship. They arrive at the mansion and are announced as King Viserys and Princess Daenerys. Illyrio points out several prominent guests, including Ser Jorah Mormont, who has fled the Seven Kingdoms under sentence of death and spent much time among the Dothraki.

Illyrio then points out Khal Drogo himself, who is as graceful as a panther, and younger than Daenerys would have thought. Viserys notes his long braid, which means he has never been defeated in combat. Daenerys, who notes a cold hard face, is afraid of him and asks to go home, provoking a rant from Viserys about why they can’t go home because it has been taken away from them. Daenerys meant their rooms in Illyrio’s estate, but none of the places they have stayed in have been Viserys' home. Viserys also assures Daenerys that he would let Khal Drogo's whole khalasar, including their horses, rape her if it won him back the Seven Kingdoms. Then Viserys tells her to stop crying, because Illyrio is leading Khal Drogo over to meet them. Daenerys stops crying, stands up straight, and smiles.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_3

mariebeth

Hope everyone is still reading, or are ye too engrossed in the books?

Chapter 3 – Daenerys 1

Viserys Targaryen presents his thirteen-year-old sister, Daenerys, with a fine silk dress. The dress is a gift from their host Magister Illyrio Mopatis, who has also promised gold and jewels so she will look like a princess. Daenerys questions Illyrio's motives, but Viserys insists that the Magister only wants to get in his good graces for when he reclaims the Seven Kingdoms. Daenerys still doesn't trust Illyrio, but knows better than to say anything for fear of making Viserys angry (which he calls "waking the dragon").

Viserys is preparing to present Daenerys to the Dothraki horselord, Khal Drogo, in the hope that the Khal will take her as his wife in exchange for soldiers to reclaim the throne. He warns Daenerys not to fail him and wake the dragon, twisting one of her nipples for emphasis. Viserys adds that when they write the history of his realm they will say it began this night.

After Viserys leaves, Daenerys thinks of Westeros, a place she has never seen. She recalls the stories of her brother Crown Prince Rhaegar’s death at the hand of Robert Baratheon, her father King Aerys's murder by the Kingslayer, and her mother and brother's escape to Dragonstone, where her mother died giving birth to her. Daenerys also recalls how she and her brother fled Dragonstone with Ser Willem Darry and four loyal men, who took them to Braavos. There they lived in a big house with a red door and Ser Willem was always kind to her. But when Ser Willem died, the servants stole what money was left and they were put out of the house. Since then they have wandered, with Viserys keeping them moving in fear of the Usurper’s assassins. Near the end of her reverie, Dany reflects on how Viserys, now known as the Beggar King behind his back, has become obsessed with recovering his throne, while she only wants her childhood back.

Illyrio's servants come to bathe Daenerys and prepare her for her meeting with Khal Drogo. She is intended to marry Drogo, though she has always assumed she would marry her brother like the Targaryens always have. The servants tell her how lucky she is to marry a man so rich that even his slaves wear golden collars. Once she is properly dressed, her brother returns with Magister Illyrio. Viserys commands her to stand up and turn around. Illyrio showers Daenerys with compliments while Viserys complains she is too skinny and too young. Illyrio reassures him that she is old enough for the Khal and comments on her silver-gold hair and purple eyes, the hallmarks of old Valyrian nobility. When Viserys states that barbarians are said to have queer tastes such as boys and sheep, Illyrio warns him not to say these things to the Khal, creating a flare of anger in Viserys’ eyes.

The three of them journey in Illyrio's litter to Khal Drogo's manse in the pitch dark. Viserys states that 10,000 Dothraki screamers will be enough when combined with those that are just awaiting his return to overthrow the usurper. He speculates on those who would join their cause--House Tyrell, House Redwyne, House Darry, House Greyjoy, and the Dornishmen. Illyrio assures Viserys that the Seven Kingdoms secretly await his return, though Daenerys doubts him.

Illyrio says that the horselords' mansion was a gift from the magisters of Pentos, to help win the Khal's friendship. They arrive at the mansion and are announced as King Viserys and Princess Daenerys. Illyrio points out several prominent guests, including Ser Jorah Mormont, who has fled the Seven Kingdoms under sentence of death and spent much time among the Dothraki.

Illyrio then points out Khal Drogo himself, who is as graceful as a panther, and younger than Daenerys would have thought. Viserys notes his long braid, which means he has never been defeated in combat. Daenerys, who notes a cold hard face, is afraid of him and asks to go home, provoking a rant from Viserys about why they can’t go home because it has been taken away from them. Daenerys meant their rooms in Illyrio’s estate, but none of the places they have stayed in have been Viserys' home. Viserys also assures Daenerys that he would let Khal Drogo's whole khalasar, including their horses, rape her if it won him back the Seven Kingdoms. Then Viserys tells her to stop crying, because Illyrio is leading Khal Drogo over to meet them. Daenerys stops crying, stands up straight, and smiles.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_3

Rosy Posy

I found it interesting how in Catelyn's chapter it really emphasises her difference to the Starks and the Northeners. It sets up the Starks in opposition to the Lannisters nicely. Their contempt for Cersei is tangible in the way they call her 'the Lannister woman'.

I was also struck by the image of the Direwolf slain by the Stag and the symbolism of this, it was pertinent to see the same conclusion reached by Catelyn (the sigil of the Baratheons slaying the sigil of the Starks), although I think it is a testiment to the strength of the relationship between Ned and Robert that she did not mention her reservations to her husband.

Nice juxtaposition of the old Gods and the new- I think that Catelyns distinction between the deities and their place and manner of worship also serves as an illustration of the character and outlook of the Northerners as opposed to the Southerners.

stevenmu

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

but i wonder why it was Theon who brought forward Ice. Theon is a ward, not a squire nor a servant.

It's mentioned later that hostages/wards like Theon are usually trained as squires. But I get the impression that the North doesn't seem to really have squires, or knights for that matter. So in the absence of a formal squiring program which means he isn't actually a squire, he does seem to do some of the duties of one.

Rosy Posy

Really felt for Danys in this chapter- she is so young! She seems like a lost child dressed up and paraded about.

Still you can see her mettle coming through- she is a better judge of character than Viserys, who seems completely enamoured with the idea of his rightful kingship and seemingly blind to the workings of the world around him. By contrast Danys listens to what people say and questions their motivation beyond their words. I also think that her queenly bearing and bravery comes out in the last line of the chapter, when she smiles and stands straight.

iamanengine

You get a great sense of the vast differences between life in the North and life in the South in Catelyn's chapter. I'm loving all the extra information in the book's as opposed to the tv series which is what I was looking for really. It's a great testament to the book that it's still a great read knowing what happens.

Poor ol Dany, it's great the contrast between how she started out as opposed to where she is know, on reading her chapter you really get a sense of hopelessness. Had forgotten how much of a d*ck Viscerys was!

mariebeth

I didn't get the chance to post about Catelyn's chapter yesterday, but reading it I noticed that she really isn't at home in Winterfell. She hasn't accepted Ned's old gods, while he has at least accommodated hers by building a sept. I liked the commentary as well about the Stark words, how they are simply 'Winter is Coming', that they don't reflect honour & glory like the other houses, the Starks face the reality of the world instead.

One thing that I want to make note of for future reading, we know Jon follows the old gods because of where he says his vows for the watch, but I can't remember do the rest of the children follow the old gods or new gods, or is it even mentioned. If any one remembers, I don't want to know It's something I'm looking forward to discovering again later on in the books.


_________________________________________

We then move from Winterfell, across the sea to Pentos to meet Daenerys and Viserys.

Again in this chapter, there's mention of a third religion, the red priests.

Daenerys comes across to me in this chapter as quite sensible for her 13 years. She yearns more for a home, than for the land of Westeros, a land which she has never known. Whereas Viserys comes across almost as frenzied in his need to take back Westeros, and in needing to be placated at almost every turn by Magister Ilyrio. Another sign of Dany's sensibility, she doesn't trust Ilyrio and doesn't really believe his words that the people of Westeros are praying for the day that their true king returns home. She sees him for what he is I think, a man who is out for profit.

mariebeth

Chapter 4 – Eddard 1

The King's party, three hundred strong, rides into Winterfell. Ned recognizes Jaime Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Prince Joffrey, and Sandor Clegane, but doesn't recognize his old friend King Robert, a huge bearded man (6.5 feet) flanked by two knights in snow white cloaks of the Kingsguard, until Robert calls out. He is shocked to see Robert has gained 8 stone (112 lbs) since the last time they saw each other nine years before when they joined forces to deal with Balon Greyjoy, who had proclaimed himself king of the Iron Islands. Ned pays obeisance as Queen Cersei and the younger children debark from the wheelhouse. After the formalities of greeting (including the presentation of the children from both parties), Robert insists on being taken down to the crypt to pay his respects where the dead of House Stark are buried. Queen Cersei objects.

Ned asks Robert about his travel, and Robert complains of the distance that has to be traveled in the vast emptiness of the North. Robert talks about the advantages of living in the south, telling Ned he has to see the wonders, the warmth, and the undress of the women. They descend into the crypt, which is an effort for the out-of-shape Robert.

Robert wants to visit the tomb of Ned's sister Lyanna Stark, who was his betrothed. They pass the dead of house Stark with statues in front of the crypts, each lord holding a sword on his lap. They arrive at the last of the occupied crypts waiting for the future dead of House Stark. Here there are three tombs for Ned’s father Lord Rickard Stark, Ned’s elder brother Brandon Stark and his sister Lyanna. Robert tells Ned that he should have buried her on a sunny hillside, but Ned explains that she was a Stark of Winterfell and belongs here, and that it was her wish. Ned remembers her dying, and his friend Howland Reed being nearby while Robert recalls taking his vengeance on Rhaegar Targaryen for what he did to her, regretting only getting to kill him once. Ned says they should return, his wife will be waiting. Robert replies the Others take his wife, and they start back.

As they return, Ned asks about Jon Arryn, and Robert says that he had never seen a man die so quickly, within a fortnight. Ned asks about how Jon's widow is bearing under the grief, telling Robert that Catelyn fears for her sister. Robert confides that he thinks Jon’s death has driven her mad and that she has taken her son back to the Eyrie. Robert had hoped to foster the sickly boy with Tywin Lannister, but Lysa refused to hear of it and left in the dead of night; Cersei was furious. Ned, who does not trust Tywin, is relieved. Ned asks to foster Robert Arryn himself, but Tywin has already agreed and Ned taking him as a ward would be a risk of offending Tywin.

Ned comments that Robert should visit the wall, but Robert responds that he has more important issues: He has to replace Lord Arryn, including several important positions such as Warden of the East. Ned tells Robert that that title goes with the domain of the Arryns. Robert states that Robert Arryn will not be Warden of the East since he is only a 6-year old boy. Ned tells Robert that during times of peace this is only an honor. The king is not pleased -- the son is not the father, and maybe when the boy is grown, the title will be given back. He says that he needs another Hand of the King, and he offers the position to Ned where he can again be at his side. Then the King tells Ned how the responsibilities bore him and that he is surrounded by flatterers and fools. He says he wants Ned to come south to King's Landing to be Hand of the King, the second most important man in the kingdom.

Ned does not want the position. Even Robert recognizes that this is not a pleasant position, relating the low-born's saying that “the King eats and the Hand takes the ****.” Robert asks for at least a smile and Ned responds that it is said to be so cold in the North that a man's laughter freezes in his throat and chokes him to death.

King Robert offers to marry Sansa Stark (only 11) to Prince Joffrey, to join the Houses of Stark and Baratheon as he and Lyanna might have done. Ned hesitates to make this decision, wishing to speak to his wife, but Robert asks him not to take too long. Ned is filled with a sense of foreboding, knowing that Winterfell is where he belongs, and winter is coming.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_4

mariebeth

Until the two threads are merged, I'll just keep posting in here as well for continuity

Chapter 4 – Eddard 1
The King's party, three hundred strong, rides into Winterfell. Ned recognizes Jaime Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Prince Joffrey, and Sandor Clegane, but doesn't recognize his old friend King Robert, a huge bearded man (6.5 feet) flanked by two knights in snow white cloaks of the Kingsguard, until Robert calls out. He is shocked to see Robert has gained 8 stone (112 lbs) since the last time they saw each other nine years before when they joined forces to deal with Balon Greyjoy, who had proclaimed himself king of the Iron Islands. Ned pays obeisance as Queen Cersei and the younger children debark from the wheelhouse. After the formalities of greeting (including the presentation of the children from both parties), Robert insists on being taken down to the crypt to pay his respects where the dead of House Stark are buried. Queen Cersei objects.

Ned asks Robert about his travel, and Robert complains of the distance that has to be traveled in the vast emptiness of the North. Robert talks about the advantages of living in the south, telling Ned he has to see the wonders, the warmth, and the undress of the women. They descend into the crypt, which is an effort for the out-of-shape Robert.

Robert wants to visit the tomb of Ned's sister Lyanna Stark, who was his betrothed. They pass the dead of house Stark with statues in front of the crypts, each lord holding a sword on his lap. They arrive at the last of the occupied crypts waiting for the future dead of House Stark. Here there are three tombs for Ned’s father Lord Rickard Stark, Ned’s elder brother Brandon Stark and his sister Lyanna. Robert tells Ned that he should have buried her on a sunny hillside, but Ned explains that she was a Stark of Winterfell and belongs here, and that it was her wish. Ned remembers her dying, and his friend Howland Reed being nearby while Robert recalls taking his vengeance on Rhaegar Targaryen for what he did to her, regretting only getting to kill him once. Ned says they should return, his wife will be waiting. Robert replies the Others take his wife, and they start back.

As they return, Ned asks about Jon Arryn, and Robert says that he had never seen a man die so quickly, within a fortnight. Ned asks about how Jon's widow is bearing under the grief, telling Robert that Catelyn fears for her sister. Robert confides that he thinks Jon’s death has driven her mad and that she has taken her son back to the Eyrie. Robert had hoped to foster the sickly boy with Tywin Lannister, but Lysa refused to hear of it and left in the dead of night; Cersei was furious. Ned, who does not trust Tywin, is relieved. Ned asks to foster Robert Arryn himself, but Tywin has already agreed and Ned taking him as a ward would be a risk of offending Tywin.

Ned comments that Robert should visit the wall, but Robert responds that he has more important issues: He has to replace Lord Arryn, including several important positions such as Warden of the East. Ned tells Robert that that title goes with the domain of the Arryns. Robert states that Robert Arryn will not be Warden of the East since he is only a 6-year old boy. Ned tells Robert that during times of peace this is only an honor. The king is not pleased -- the son is not the father, and maybe when the boy is grown, the title will be given back. He says that he needs another Hand of the King, and he offers the position to Ned where he can again be at his side. Then the King tells Ned how the responsibilities bore him and that he is surrounded by flatterers and fools. He says he wants Ned to come south to King's Landing to be Hand of the King, the second most important man in the kingdom.

Ned does not want the position. Even Robert recognizes that this is not a pleasant position, relating the low-born's saying that “the King eats and the Hand takes the ****.” Robert asks for at least a smile and Ned responds that it is said to be so cold in the North that a man's laughter freezes in his throat and chokes him to death.

King Robert offers to marry Sansa Stark (only 11) to Prince Joffrey, to join the Houses of Stark and Baratheon as he and Lyanna might have done. Ned hesitates to make this decision, wishing to speak to his wife, but Robert asks him not to take too long. Ned is filled with a sense of foreboding, knowing that Winterfell is where he belongs, and winter is coming.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_4

mariebeth

Anyone else struggling at the weekend? I'm still to read yesterdays chapter, unfortunately but hopefully I'll be back to comment later on today.

Chapter 5 - Jon 1

A feast is held in Winterfell in honor of King Robert's royal visit. Jon decides he is thankful his bastardy has relegated him to the far end of the hall with the younger squires instead of the king's family. Here he can drink as much as he wants (he has a man’s thirst), and mingle freely with those around him.
Jon watches the king and his family as they arrive. He recognizes Queen Cersei's false smile and is disappointed with fat, red-faced, King Robert. The 8-year-old Princess Myrcella seems smitten with her escort Robb, leading Jon to decide she is insipid. Arya is escorted by plump young Prince Tommen. The 12-year-old Prince Joffrey (who is even taller than Robb) is escorting the radiant Sansa. Jon decides he does not like Joffrey’s pouty lips or the disdain the Prince seems to hold for Winterfell. He also notes that the Queen's brother Jaime Lannister looks like a proper king, and that waddling Tyrion Lannister is grotesquely fascinating, as ugly as Jaime and Cersei are beautiful. The last to enter are Benjen Stark and Theon Greyjoy.



Jon feeds his direwolf Ghost under the table and watches the pup silently face down a full-grown dog three times his size. Bringing his wolf to the feast is another perk to being the bastard. Jon is soon joined by his uncle Benjen, who asks Jon how much he's had to drink, and says Jon is older than he was when he first got truly drunk. Benjen asks about Ghost and Jon explains that he named him Ghost for his white colour and because he never makes a sound. Benjen then asks why Jon is not at the main table, and Jon says flatly that Catelyn thought seating a bastard with the King might give offense.
Benjen comments that Eddard does not seem festive, and Jon adds that the Queen is not, either, probably because of King Robert's visit to the crypts. Benjen commends Jon's keen skills of observation and remarks that he could use a man like him on the Wall. Jon asks if he can return to the Wall with Benjen. Benjen replies that the Wall is a hard place for a boy, but Jon counters that he will turn 15 on his next nameday, and it's said bastards grow up faster than purebloods. Jon thinks about how all his half brothers and sisters have futures, but there is no future for a bastard. Benjen says that he should know a woman and father a bastard or two first, to know what he will be giving up. This angers Jon, who states that he would never father a bastard and runs off before people can see him cry, with Ghost at his heels.



As Jon is leaving, Tyrion Lannister speaks to him from a ledge in the deserted yard and asks if he can take a look at Ghost. Jon offers to help him down, but Tyrion jumps down, acrobatically landing on his hands and vaulting to his feet. Ghost is uncertain about Tyrion, but submits to examination under Jon's command. Tyrion asks if Jon is Eddard's bastard. Jon bridles and Tyrion apologizes that as a dwarf he can usually speak as he pleases, like a jester. He comments that Jon seems to have more of the North in him than his half-siblings. Tyrion advises Jon never to forget who and what he is so that no one can use it against him. When Jon questions what Tyrion would know about being a bastard, Tyrion replies that all dwarfs are bastards in their father’s eyes and that, although all dwarfs are bastards, not all bastards need to be dwarfs.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_5

Rosy Posy

Still on chapter 4- I liked the contrast between Ned's staidness and Robert's hedonism. There's also a tension between his natural loathing of the Lannisters and his pragmatism of being in bed with them; especially since Neds forthright contempt for them is made clear. The chapter nicely sets up the difference between the two men's characters.

It's also very telling that Robert immediately asks to see Lyanna's grave against his wife's wishes, leaving her to seek solace in her brother.

mariebeth

Thought I'd posted in both threads this morning, but obviously hadn't

Anyone else struggling at the weekend? I'm still to read yesterdays chapter, unfortunately but hopefully I'll be back to comment later on today.

Chapter 5 - Jon 1

A feast is held in Winterfell in honor of King Robert's royal visit. Jon decides he is thankful his bastardy has relegated him to the far end of the hall with the younger squires instead of the king's family. Here he can drink as much as he wants (he has a man’s thirst), and mingle freely with those around him.
Jon watches the king and his family as they arrive. He recognizes Queen Cersei's false smile and is disappointed with fat, red-faced, King Robert. The 8-year-old Princess Myrcella seems smitten with her escort Robb, leading Jon to decide she is insipid. Arya is escorted by plump young Prince Tommen. The 12-year-old Prince Joffrey (who is even taller than Robb) is escorting the radiant Sansa. Jon decides he does not like Joffrey’s pouty lips or the disdain the Prince seems to hold for Winterfell. He also notes that the Queen's brother Jaime Lannister looks like a proper king, and that waddling Tyrion Lannister is grotesquely fascinating, as ugly as Jaime and Cersei are beautiful. The last to enter are Benjen Stark and Theon Greyjoy.



Jon feeds his direwolf Ghost under the table and watches the pup silently face down a full-grown dog three times his size. Bringing his wolf to the feast is another perk to being the bastard. Jon is soon joined by his uncle Benjen, who asks Jon how much he's had to drink, and says Jon is older than he was when he first got truly drunk. Benjen asks about Ghost and Jon explains that he named him Ghost for his white colour and because he never makes a sound. Benjen then asks why Jon is not at the main table, and Jon says flatly that Catelyn thought seating a bastard with the King might give offense.
Benjen comments that Eddard does not seem festive, and Jon adds that the Queen is not, either, probably because of King Robert's visit to the crypts. Benjen commends Jon's keen skills of observation and remarks that he could use a man like him on the Wall. Jon asks if he can return to the Wall with Benjen. Benjen replies that the Wall is a hard place for a boy, but Jon counters that he will turn 15 on his next nameday, and it's said bastards grow up faster than purebloods. Jon thinks about how all his half brothers and sisters have futures, but there is no future for a bastard. Benjen says that he should know a woman and father a bastard or two first, to know what he will be giving up. This angers Jon, who states that he would never father a bastard and runs off before people can see him cry, with Ghost at his heels.



As Jon is leaving, Tyrion Lannister speaks to him from a ledge in the deserted yard and asks if he can take a look at Ghost. Jon offers to help him down, but Tyrion jumps down, acrobatically landing on his hands and vaulting to his feet. Ghost is uncertain about Tyrion, but submits to examination under Jon's command. Tyrion asks if Jon is Eddard's bastard. Jon bridles and Tyrion apologizes that as a dwarf he can usually speak as he pleases, like a jester. He comments that Jon seems to have more of the North in him than his half-siblings. Tyrion advises Jon never to forget who and what he is so that no one can use it against him. When Jon questions what Tyrion would know about being a bastard, Tyrion replies that all dwarfs are bastards in their father’s eyes and that, although all dwarfs are bastards, not all bastards need to be dwarfs.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_5

ArmaniJeanss

mariebeth wrote: »

Jon offers to help him down, but Tyrion jumps down, acrobatically landing on his hands and vaulting to his feet

Jon1.
Tyrions unlikely acrobatics never get a mention again in the series afaik. Quite glad of this, or maybe GRRM is saving a double back flip somersault for the final chapter of DreamsOfSpring.

Daenyrys 1.
I found Daenrys's chapters very enjoyable on the second read - the first time its a bit of a meaningless travelogue whereas the second time you see the odd fat red priest here, then an important plot strand over there etc.

Prologue and Bran1.
Found the prologue a bit inconsistent. The sheer arrogance and stupidity of Ser Weymar Royce grates a little especially from what we find out later about the training at Castle Black. Would Benjen Stark as head ranger really allow such a buffoon as leader on a reasonably important away mission? Wouldn't Ser Allister Thorne have knocked a bit of humility into Weymar Royce during training etc? At least he dies bravely anyway.
Ditto the lad (was it Will or the other one, the TV series confused it by swapping them) who flees and gets executed by Ned is really just a McGuffin to show us the nobility and 'rule stickler-iness' of Lord Eddard, and for the Stark clan to find the direwolves.
In reality imo the initial terror would have worn off, daylight comes up and it would be much more logical, and much more realistic, to go to the complete safety of Castle Black.


Catelyn 1.
Gods, her pov of view always bored me.

This is much from memory, I annoyingly don't have a copy of GOT anymore.

Duckworth_Luas

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Jon1.
Tyrions unlikely acrobatics never get a mention again in the series afaik. Quite glad of this, or maybe GRRM is saving a double back flip somersault for the final chapter of DreamsOfSpring.

Tyrion later mentions (aDwD?) that his uncle thought him to do various acrobatic tricks as a child but Tywin disapproved.

mariebeth

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Jon1.
Tyrions unlikely acrobatics never get a mention again in the series afaik. Quite glad of this, or maybe GRRM is saving a double back flip somersault for the final chapter of DreamsOfSpring.


In reality imo the initial terror would have worn off, daylight comes up and it would be much more logical, and much more realistic, to go to the complete safety of Castle Black.

This is much from memory, I annoyingly don't have a copy of GOT anymore.

Good memory you have! I always wondered that about Gared, it would be the most obvious course of action to run to Castle Black, although as you said, he was probably there to show the rule following and 'stickler-iness' of the Starks, particularly Ned.

And I'd forgotten about Tyrion's acrobatic skills.

What I noticed about Jon's chapter this time around is how Jon seems to be so adult like in one instance, reflecting on how he's learnt to be watchful, and at the same time be so childish and petulant.

mariebeth

Chapter 6 - Catelyn 2
Ned and Catelyn are in Catelyn's bedchamber after making love. Uncomfortable with the warmth of the room (heated by hot springs beneath the castle), Ned opens the windows. As she watches him from the bed, Catelyn thinks he looks the same as when she married him and hopes they have conceived another child.



They discuss the king's offer, which Ned intends to refuse. Catelyn insists that he must accept so as not to offend the king. While Catelyn contemplates the omen of the dead direwolf killed by a stag, Ned wishes his brother Brandon had lived to be Lord of Winterfell instead.



They are interrupted by Desmond, who says that Maester Luwin has an urgent message for Ned. The Maester is shown in and tells them that he has been left a message. There has been a carved wooden box left in his observatory while he was napping; the box contained a fine new glass lens for the observatory. The way it was delivered made the Maester wonder and he discovered a message hidden beneath a false bottom. Maester Luwin says he has not read it, and will not give it to Ned, for it is addressed to Catelyn.
Catelyn takes the message apprehensively. It is from her sister Lysa, and written in a secret language only the two sisters share. Catelyn immediately burns the message after reading it, but explains to Ned that the message claims Jon Arryn was murdered by the Queen and the Lannisters. Catelyn says that now Ned must be the King's Hand, to find the truth behind Lysa's accusations. Maester Luwin agrees with Catelyn, because the Hand has great powers that will help determine the truth and protect Lysa and her son. Then Catelyn tells Ned that he would not leave a man that he loves like a brother, King Robert, to face the Lannisters on his own.



Ned deliberates, and then makes his decision: he will go, but Catelyn must stay behind, to govern Winterfell and teach Robb the things he needs to know. He says that young Rickon may stay with her as well, but the others must come south--Sansa to wed Joffrey, Arya to learn the ways of a southern court. Cat reluctantly agrees but begs that 7-year-old Bran be allowed to stay, but Ned insists Bran will be needed to bridge the gap between Robb and Joffrey. The house will be the safer for it, and Catelyn has to agree. Catelyn feels lonely already.



Maester Luwin asks about Jon Snow. Ned can feel the anger in Catelyn. Catelyn remembers the bastard child that Ned brought back with him in the early days of their marriage. She understood Ned having bastard sons while away, but could not understand raising a bastard in the castle. There were rumors that Ashara Dayne was his mother, but Ned forbade her to ask about him, saying only that Jon was his blood. Ned would never send him away, and Catelyn could never forgive him that. Catelyn insists that Jon must leave, but Ned tells her there would be no place for Jon at court. Maester Luwin mentions Jon Snow's ambitions to join the Night's Watch. Ned considers this for a while, and finally agrees to let Jon take the black, though not until they are ready to leave for the south. He wants Jon to enjoy his last few days, and decides that when it is time, he will tell him himself.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_6

mariebeth

Chapter 6 - Catelyn 2
Ned and Catelyn are in Catelyn's bedchamber after making love. Uncomfortable with the warmth of the room (heated by hot springs beneath the castle), Ned opens the windows. As she watches him from the bed, Catelyn thinks he looks the same as when she married him and hopes they have conceived another child.



They discuss the king's offer, which Ned intends to refuse. Catelyn insists that he must accept so as not to offend the king. While Catelyn contemplates the omen of the dead direwolf killed by a stag, Ned wishes his brother Brandon had lived to be Lord of Winterfell instead.



They are interrupted by Desmond, who says that Maester Luwin has an urgent message for Ned. The Maester is shown in and tells them that he has been left a message. There has been a carved wooden box left in his observatory while he was napping; the box contained a fine new glass lens for the observatory. The way it was delivered made the Maester wonder and he discovered a message hidden beneath a false bottom. Maester Luwin says he has not read it, and will not give it to Ned, for it is addressed to Catelyn.
Catelyn takes the message apprehensively. It is from her sister Lysa, and written in a secret language only the two sisters share. Catelyn immediately burns the message after reading it, but explains to Ned that the message claims Jon Arryn was murdered by the Queen and the Lannisters. Catelyn says that now Ned must be the King's Hand, to find the truth behind Lysa's accusations. Maester Luwin agrees with Catelyn, because the Hand has great powers that will help determine the truth and protect Lysa and her son. Then Catelyn tells Ned that he would not leave a man that he loves like a brother, King Robert, to face the Lannisters on his own.



Ned deliberates, and then makes his decision: he will go, but Catelyn must stay behind, to govern Winterfell and teach Robb the things he needs to know. He says that young Rickon may stay with her as well, but the others must come south--Sansa to wed Joffrey, Arya to learn the ways of a southern court. Cat reluctantly agrees but begs that 7-year-old Bran be allowed to stay, but Ned insists Bran will be needed to bridge the gap between Robb and Joffrey. The house will be the safer for it, and Catelyn has to agree. Catelyn feels lonely already.



Maester Luwin asks about Jon Snow. Ned can feel the anger in Catelyn. Catelyn remembers the bastard child that Ned brought back with him in the early days of their marriage. She understood Ned having bastard sons while away, but could not understand raising a bastard in the castle. There were rumors that Ashara Dayne was his mother, but Ned forbade her to ask about him, saying only that Jon was his blood. Ned would never send him away, and Catelyn could never forgive him that. Catelyn insists that Jon must leave, but Ned tells her there would be no place for Jon at court. Maester Luwin mentions Jon Snow's ambitions to join the Night's Watch. Ned considers this for a while, and finally agrees to let Jon take the black, though not until they are ready to leave for the south. He wants Jon to enjoy his last few days, and decides that when it is time, he will tell him himself.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Game_of_Thrones-Chapter_6

mariebeth

I'm not a huge fan of Cat's chapters, so I rushed it a bit.

I'd forgotten that it is Cat who has to push Ned to take the role of Hand once they learn that Lysa believes Jon Arryn to have been murdered. It almost feels slightly out of character for Ned that he doesn't want to go south and try to find out who killed him.